[[email protected]]

A board foot is defined as a 1' x 1' x 1" or combinations to get 144
cu inch of material. When I go to the lumber store a 1" thick board
is actually 3/4".

When I see lumber listed as 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, etc, what should I
actually be able measue it out as?

If I have wood that measures as 2" thick with my tapemeasure, how
would I express that in quarters?

This likely has come up before, but I just got into discussion with a
50%er engineer who just absolutely "knows" because the degree in his
pocket says so.

Pete

[Sonny]

If I have wood that measures as 2" thick with my tapemeasure, *how
would I express that in quarters?


Expressed as: Your tape measure is worth 8 quarters (or $2.00).
Comparable to a $2 watch.

From your lumber yard, you will likely not find finished lumber that
measures a full 2", but slightly less than exactly 2". This finished
lumber measure would be expressed as 8/4, as the original rough cut
stock, it came from, was originally a full 2" measure. Only rough cut
lumber will be a full 2" measure, unless it is a special cut of
particular lumber.

You won't find $2 watches at the lumber yard, either. .... I don't
think! ..... maybe?

Sonny

[[email protected]]

Sonny, tell your idiot engineer to stick to his line of expertise.

There is a ton of information on this phenomenon that started as soon
as sawmills began to sell planed wood. So maybe a couple of hundred
years ago....

To overly simplify, a board foot is the size of the board BEFORE it
was planed or smoothed. So a 1X6 was a board that began as 1" thick,
and 6" wide. However, to make it convenient, you began to be able to
buy planed boards from the mill. Planing decreased the thickness on
each side and the edges, so the sizes you see now reflect the fact
that the wood has been processed to a consistent size, or its finished
size.

However, the mill still cut it 1"X6" so they would have enough
material on the board to smooth it. You didn't think you would get
that extra material free, right? So you are charged for the board
itself when rough, as well as the convenience of smoothed faces. To
drive that home, go to a real hardwood lumber store (NOT HD) and ask
for a 1X6. They should ask you "nominal (unplaned) or smooth?". If
rough, you can take the board home and plane it yourself. Make to
your own smooth boards to your dimensions using nominally sized
lumber.

As far as quarters go... think about it. Maybe since it's
Thanksgiving, think of an pie as an inch to visualize it.
With that in mind, think of one quarter of a pie as "a quarter of a
pie". So to extrapolate, if you have one quarter of an inch, then you
have..... wait for it..... here it comes..... one quarter of an inch!

So 4 quarters would be..... one inch!
Five quarters would be..... an inch and a quarter. Eight quarters
would be two inches, etc. Just count the quarters on your tape and
you will have it.

IME, the quarter system of describing wood sizes is used only to
describe thickness of rough (nominal) lumber. It is not used to
determine width. You won't find an lumber man that asks you if you
want 4/4 (four quarters) by 24/4 (24 quarters) by 400/4.

You should also know that unless it is in a specific purpose lumber,
nominal sizes almost always refer to hardwoods, not softwoods.

Some engineers are pretty bright fellows, but this one sounds brand
new. Show him this to help educate him as to how BF is calculated,
and after that DAGS the key words.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c7nlgl

Check out the highlighted words in this book, page 216.
"Understanding Wood" (to me) is the absolutely undisputed king of
reference books on all things wood.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2fs4d32

Robert

[[email protected]]

Whoops....

Sorry, Sonny. Meant Pete. Lost my train of thought when I went for
more coffee!

Robert

[dpb]

wrote:
A board foot is defined as a 1' x 1' x 1" or combinations to get 144
cu inch of material. When I go to the lumber store a 1" thick board
is actually 3/4".

When I see lumber listed as 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, etc, what should I
actually be able measue it out as?

If I have wood that measures as 2" thick with my tapemeasure, how
would I express that in quarters?
....

B) first... 8/4, of course. (+)

A) Depends on what lumber of which you speak. Rough-sawn, it'll be full
dimension. What it will clean up to will depend somewhat on the sawyer
and saw type as well as the particular board -- a bandsawn piece w/ a
careful sawyer may need 1/16" or even less to leave a clean surface
whereas a circular saw and/or a little less care taken might need as
much as an eight or slightly more on occasion.

If you're talking about softwood dimension lumber (tubafor and the
like), the sizes have been standardized at the half-under thickness for
uniformity. Used to be you would find finished 2x at 5/8 or thereabouts
and not necessarily identical so matching up thickness was a trick.

There are grading and sizing rules; I thought I had a handy link but
don't seem to find it at the moment. US Forest Products Lab site should
be able to find it but I'm in a rush at the moment, sorry...

(+) Of course, if that were finished piece, it was originally probably
10/4 (9/4 would be theoretically possible but rarely is anything sawn at
that thickness unless were custom order).

--

[ChairMan]

wrote:
A board foot is defined as a 1' x 1' x 1" or combinations to get 144
cu inch of material. When I go to the lumber store a 1" thick board
is actually 3/4".

When I see lumber listed as 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, etc, what should I
actually be able measue it out as?

If I have wood that measures as 2" thick with my tapemeasure, how
would I express that in quarters?

This likely has come up before, but I just got into discussion with a
50%er engineer who just absolutely "knows" because the degree in his
pocket says so.

Pete

When you see lumber listed in quarters, that's in the rough.
5/4 will usually give you 1 1/8 usable lumber and so on.
2" is 8/4 before surfacing
hth

[EXT]

wrote in message
...
Sonny, tell your idiot engineer to stick to his line of expertise.

There is a ton of information on this phenomenon that started as soon
as sawmills began to sell planed wood. So maybe a couple of hundred
years ago....

To overly simplify, a board foot is the size of the board BEFORE it
was planed or smoothed. So a 1X6 was a board that began as 1" thick,
and 6" wide. However, to make it convenient, you began to be able to
buy planed boards from the mill. Planing decreased the thickness on
each side and the edges, so the sizes you see now reflect the fact
that the wood has been processed to a consistent size, or its finished
size.

However, the mill still cut it 1"X6" so they would have enough
material on the board to smooth it. You didn't think you would get
that extra material free, right? So you are charged for the board
itself when rough, as well as the convenience of smoothed faces. To
drive that home, go to a real hardwood lumber store (NOT HD) and ask
for a 1X6. They should ask you "nominal (unplaned) or smooth?". If
rough, you can take the board home and plane it yourself. Make to
your own smooth boards to your dimensions using nominally sized
lumber.

As far as quarters go... think about it. Maybe since it's
Thanksgiving, think of an pie as an inch to visualize it.
With that in mind, think of one quarter of a pie as "a quarter of a
pie". So to extrapolate, if you have one quarter of an inch, then you
have..... wait for it..... here it comes..... one quarter of an inch!

So 4 quarters would be..... one inch!
Five quarters would be..... an inch and a quarter. Eight quarters
would be two inches, etc. Just count the quarters on your tape and
you will have it.

IME, the quarter system of describing wood sizes is used only to
describe thickness of rough (nominal) lumber. It is not used to
determine width. You won't find an lumber man that asks you if you
want 4/4 (four quarters) by 24/4 (24 quarters) by 400/4.

You should also know that unless it is in a specific purpose lumber,
nominal sizes almost always refer to hardwoods, not softwoods.

Some engineers are pretty bright fellows, but this one sounds brand
new. Show him this to help educate him as to how BF is calculated,
and after that DAGS the key words.

Every industry has its catchwords, slang and standards that may not make
sense to someone who in not initiated into the way things are done. I came
out the printing industry, and most people cannot figure out paper weights.
Can any one reading this tell me how 20 pound copy paper is determined,
versus 24 pound copy paper?

Like lumber where sizes are determined in the rough unfinished state, paper
is determined in the mill sizes that the paper mill standardizes. Copy
paper, known as Bond paper because it is used for business letterhead and
forms, and now used for copiers is based on a ream, which is 500 sheets, of
standard sized paper. Bond paper is produced in the standard size of 17" x
22", and 500 sheets will weight 20 pounds or 24 pounds respectively. Other
sizes are produced but the weight is based on the standard size.

[J. Clarke[_2_]]

In article , says...

A board foot is defined as a 1' x 1' x 1" or combinations to get 144
cu inch of material. When I go to the lumber store a 1" thick board
is actually 3/4".

When I see lumber listed as 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, etc, what should I
actually be able measue it out as?

If I have wood that measures as 2" thick with my tapemeasure, how
would I express that in quarters?

This likely has come up before, but I just got into discussion with a
50%er engineer who just absolutely "knows" because the degree in his
pocket says so.

If it's rough then divide out the fraction and the lumber should be not
less than that thickness in inches.

If it's sold surfaced ("S2S", "S3S", or "S4S") then it should be 3/16
less than the rough thickness if the rough thickness is 6/4 or less, or
1/4 inch less if it's thicker than 6/4.

If you're buying it at the yard and they store it rough they may be able
to plane it so that it's thicker than that for you depending on the
actual thickness of the stock they have and the actual degree of
roughness, but it's not something to count on.

[Michael Kenefick]

12/4 = 3"
8/4 = 2"
4/4 = 1"

The store bought stuff usually is listed as a nominal sizes. IE: a 2 x
4 x 10 was 2" x 4, but has been planned / dried a bit to 1 1/2" x 3 1/2"

On 11/24/2010 12:10 PM, wrote:
A board foot is defined as a 1' x 1' x 1" or combinations to get 144
cu inch of material. When I go to the lumber store a 1" thick board
is actually 3/4".

When I see lumber listed as 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, etc, what should I
actually be able measure it out as?

If I have wood that measures as 2" thick with my tapemeasure, how
would I express that in quarters?

This likely has come up before, but I just got into discussion with a
50%er engineer who just absolutely "knows" because the degree in his
pocket says so.

Pete

[ChairMan]

wrote:
Sonny, tell your idiot engineer to stick to his line of expertise.

There is a ton of information on this phenomenon that started as soon
as sawmills began to sell planed wood. So maybe a couple of hundred
years ago....

To overly simplify, a board foot is the size of the board BEFORE it
was planed or smoothed. So a 1X6 was a board that began as 1" thick,
and 6" wide. However, to make it convenient, you began to be able to
buy planed boards from the mill. Planing decreased the thickness on
each side and the edges, so the sizes you see now reflect the fact
that the wood has been processed to a consistent size, or its finished
size.

is that by weight or volume?g

[Steve Turner[_3_]]

On 11/24/2010 6:14 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
BTW, when buying rough lumber, you measure a board at it's widest
point to calculate board feet.

Thus a 4/4 board that is 8 ft long and varies from 9" wide at one end
to 12" wide at the other is considered to be an 8 board foot board.
(It is assumed to be 12" for the full length for BF calculation
purposes.)

It's a little gotcha that gets passed on.

Not at the hardwood supply place where I do business (Fine Lumber here in
Austin TX). If there is any significant variance in width they will take
several measurements and compute the average width and charge accordingly.

It's a little gesture of good will that keeps me coming back.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[Kerry Montgomery]

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...

wrote in message
...
Sonny, tell your idiot engineer to stick to his line of expertise.

There is a ton of information on this phenomenon that started as soon
as sawmills began to sell planed wood. So maybe a couple of hundred
years ago....

To overly simplify, a board foot is the size of the board BEFORE it
was planed or smoothed. So a 1X6 was a board that began as 1" thick,
and 6" wide. However, to make it convenient, you began to be able to
buy planed boards from the mill. Planing decreased the thickness on
each side and the edges, so the sizes you see now reflect the fact
that the wood has been processed to a consistent size, or its finished
size.

However, the mill still cut it 1"X6" so they would have enough
material on the board to smooth it. You didn't think you would get
that extra material free, right? So you are charged for the board
itself when rough, as well as the convenience of smoothed faces. To
drive that home, go to a real hardwood lumber store (NOT HD) and ask
for a 1X6. They should ask you "nominal (unplaned) or smooth?". If
rough, you can take the board home and plane it yourself. Make to
your own smooth boards to your dimensions using nominally sized
lumber.

As far as quarters go... think about it. Maybe since it's
Thanksgiving, think of an pie as an inch to visualize it.
With that in mind, think of one quarter of a pie as "a quarter of a
pie". So to extrapolate, if you have one quarter of an inch, then you
have..... wait for it..... here it comes..... one quarter of an inch!

So 4 quarters would be..... one inch!
Five quarters would be..... an inch and a quarter. Eight quarters
would be two inches, etc. Just count the quarters on your tape and
you will have it.

IME, the quarter system of describing wood sizes is used only to
describe thickness of rough (nominal) lumber. It is not used to
determine width. You won't find an lumber man that asks you if you
want 4/4 (four quarters) by 24/4 (24 quarters) by 400/4.

You should also know that unless it is in a specific purpose lumber,
nominal sizes almost always refer to hardwoods, not softwoods.

Some engineers are pretty bright fellows, but this one sounds brand
new. Show him this to help educate him as to how BF is calculated,
and after that DAGS the key words.

Every industry has its catchwords, slang and standards that may not make
sense to someone who in not initiated into the way things are done. I came
out the printing industry, and most people cannot figure out paper
weights. Can any one reading this tell me how 20 pound copy paper is
determined, versus 24 pound copy paper?

Like lumber where sizes are determined in the rough unfinished state,
paper is determined in the mill sizes that the paper mill standardizes.
Copy paper, known as Bond paper because it is used for business letterhead
and forms, and now used for copiers is based on a ream, which is 500
sheets, of standard sized paper. Bond paper is produced in the standard
size of 17" x 22", and 500 sheets will weight 20 pounds or 24 pounds
respectively. Other sizes are produced but the weight is based on the
standard size.

But, if you're talking about Coated or Cover or paper of a type other than
Bond, the "standard" size isn't standard at all.
I couldn't tell what the engineer in the OP was claiming, so don't see any
basis for calling him an idiot.
Kerry

[-MIKE-]

On 11/24/10 7:15 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 11/24/2010 6:14 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
BTW, when buying rough lumber, you measure a board at it's widest
point to calculate board feet.

Thus a 4/4 board that is 8 ft long and varies from 9" wide at one end
to 12" wide at the other is considered to be an 8 board foot board.
(It is assumed to be 12" for the full length for BF calculation
purposes.)

It's a little gotcha that gets passed on.

Not at the hardwood supply place where I do business (Fine Lumber here
in Austin TX). If there is any significant variance in width they will
take several measurements and compute the average width and charge
accordingly.

It's a little gesture of good will that keeps me coming back.


Must be nice.
My place doesn't have such good will, and it keeps me looking for a new
place.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:15:50 -0800, "Kerry Montgomery"
wrote:


"EXT" wrote in message
tanews.com...

wrote in message
...
Sonny, tell your idiot engineer to stick to his line of expertise.

There is a ton of information on this phenomenon that started as soon
as sawmills began to sell planed wood. So maybe a couple of hundred
years ago....

To overly simplify, a board foot is the size of the board BEFORE it
was planed or smoothed. So a 1X6 was a board that began as 1" thick,
and 6" wide. However, to make it convenient, you began to be able to
buy planed boards from the mill. Planing decreased the thickness on
each side and the edges, so the sizes you see now reflect the fact
that the wood has been processed to a consistent size, or its finished
size.

However, the mill still cut it 1"X6" so they would have enough
material on the board to smooth it. You didn't think you would get
that extra material free, right? So you are charged for the board
itself when rough, as well as the convenience of smoothed faces. To
drive that home, go to a real hardwood lumber store (NOT HD) and ask
for a 1X6. They should ask you "nominal (unplaned) or smooth?". If
rough, you can take the board home and plane it yourself. Make to
your own smooth boards to your dimensions using nominally sized
lumber.

As far as quarters go... think about it. Maybe since it's
Thanksgiving, think of an pie as an inch to visualize it.
With that in mind, think of one quarter of a pie as "a quarter of a
pie". So to extrapolate, if you have one quarter of an inch, then you
have..... wait for it..... here it comes..... one quarter of an inch!

So 4 quarters would be..... one inch!
Five quarters would be..... an inch and a quarter. Eight quarters
would be two inches, etc. Just count the quarters on your tape and
you will have it.

IME, the quarter system of describing wood sizes is used only to
describe thickness of rough (nominal) lumber. It is not used to
determine width. You won't find an lumber man that asks you if you
want 4/4 (four quarters) by 24/4 (24 quarters) by 400/4.

You should also know that unless it is in a specific purpose lumber,
nominal sizes almost always refer to hardwoods, not softwoods.

Some engineers are pretty bright fellows, but this one sounds brand
new. Show him this to help educate him as to how BF is calculated,
and after that DAGS the key words.

Every industry has its catchwords, slang and standards that may not make
sense to someone who in not initiated into the way things are done. I came
out the printing industry, and most people cannot figure out paper
weights. Can any one reading this tell me how 20 pound copy paper is
determined, versus 24 pound copy paper?

Yup - weight of a standard quantity of paper

Like lumber where sizes are determined in the rough unfinished state,
paper is determined in the mill sizes that the paper mill standardizes.
Copy paper, known as Bond paper because it is used for business letterhead
and forms, and now used for copiers is based on a ream, which is 500
sheets, of standard sized paper. Bond paper is produced in the standard
size of 17" x 22", and 500 sheets will weight 20 pounds or 24 pounds
respectively. Other sizes are produced but the weight is based on the
standard size.


You asked us, then gave us the answer - no fair!!!!!
But, if you're talking about Coated or Cover or paper of a type other than
Bond, the "standard" size isn't standard at all.
I couldn't tell what the engineer in the OP was claiming, so don't see any
basis for calling him an idiot.
Kerry

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:20:36 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 11/24/10 7:15 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 11/24/2010 6:14 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
BTW, when buying rough lumber, you measure a board at it's widest
point to calculate board feet.

Thus a 4/4 board that is 8 ft long and varies from 9" wide at one end
to 12" wide at the other is considered to be an 8 board foot board.
(It is assumed to be 12" for the full length for BF calculation
purposes.)

It's a little gotcha that gets passed on.

Not at the hardwood supply place where I do business (Fine Lumber here
in Austin TX). If there is any significant variance in width they will
take several measurements and compute the average width and charge
accordingly.

It's a little gesture of good will that keeps me coming back.


Must be nice.
My place doesn't have such good will, and it keeps me looking for a new
place.
The hardwood wholesalers around here sometimes average, and sometimes
calculate by the narrowest useable part. Depends a bit what you go
asking for, and how it fits your cut-list. If you will be able to use
most of the wood, they average it. If there will be significant waste
because the board is non-standard - and they have nothing else, they
often "eat" the waste.

[Lobby Dosser[_3_]]

wrote in message ...


A board foot is defined as a 1' x 1' x 1" or combinations to get 144
cu inch of material. When I go to the lumber store a 1" thick board
is actually 3/4".

When I see lumber listed as 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, etc, what should I
actually be able measue it out as?

If I have wood that measures as 2" thick with my tapemeasure, how
would I express that in quarters?

This likely has come up before, but I just got into discussion with a
50%er engineer who just absolutely "knows" because the degree in his
pocket says so.

Pete


What was the engineer claiming?


--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...

[Josepi[_11_]]

....and after all the explanations if they are still that way, get a pedicure
and see if they take interest again.



wrote in message ...


A board foot is defined as a 1' x 1' x 1" or combinations to get 144
cu inch of material. When I go to the lumber store a 1" thick board
is actually 3/4".

When I see lumber listed as 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, etc, what should I
actually be able measue it out as?

If I have wood that measures as 2" thick with my tapemeasure, how
would I express that in quarters?

This likely has come up before, but I just got into discussion with a
50%er engineer who just absolutely "knows" because the degree in his
pocket says so.

Pete

[-MIKE-]

This online tool ( http://preview.tinyurl.com/c7nlgl ) is very useful,
thanks

Bookmarked... thank you.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Robert Bonomi]

In article s.com,
EXT wrote:

wrote in message
...
Sonny, tell your idiot engineer to stick to his line of expertise.

There is a ton of information on this phenomenon that started as soon
as sawmills began to sell planed wood. So maybe a couple of hundred
years ago....

To overly simplify, a board foot is the size of the board BEFORE it
was planed or smoothed. So a 1X6 was a board that began as 1" thick,
and 6" wide. However, to make it convenient, you began to be able to
buy planed boards from the mill. Planing decreased the thickness on
each side and the edges, so the sizes you see now reflect the fact
that the wood has been processed to a consistent size, or its finished
size.

However, the mill still cut it 1"X6" so they would have enough
material on the board to smooth it. You didn't think you would get
that extra material free, right? So you are charged for the board
itself when rough, as well as the convenience of smoothed faces. To
drive that home, go to a real hardwood lumber store (NOT HD) and ask
for a 1X6. They should ask you "nominal (unplaned) or smooth?". If
rough, you can take the board home and plane it yourself. Make to
your own smooth boards to your dimensions using nominally sized
lumber.

As far as quarters go... think about it. Maybe since it's
Thanksgiving, think of an pie as an inch to visualize it.
With that in mind, think of one quarter of a pie as "a quarter of a
pie". So to extrapolate, if you have one quarter of an inch, then you
have..... wait for it..... here it comes..... one quarter of an inch!

So 4 quarters would be..... one inch!
Five quarters would be..... an inch and a quarter. Eight quarters
would be two inches, etc. Just count the quarters on your tape and
you will have it.

IME, the quarter system of describing wood sizes is used only to
describe thickness of rough (nominal) lumber. It is not used to
determine width. You won't find an lumber man that asks you if you
want 4/4 (four quarters) by 24/4 (24 quarters) by 400/4.

You should also know that unless it is in a specific purpose lumber,
nominal sizes almost always refer to hardwoods, not softwoods.

Some engineers are pretty bright fellows, but this one sounds brand
new. Show him this to help educate him as to how BF is calculated,
and after that DAGS the key words.

Every industry has its catchwords, slang and standards that may not make
sense to someone who in not initiated into the way things are done. I came
out the printing industry, and most people cannot figure out paper weights.
Can any one reading this tell me how 20 pound copy paper is determined,
versus 24 pound copy paper?


*I* can. But, then, my folks bought a _lot_ of printing, and lots of different
kinds of paper stock, as part of their business operations. I also know the
difference between letterpress and offset printing. And have used an honest-
to-goodness Lin-o-type machine. 0grin

I've also written computer software to calculate postage costs for mailings,
given only 'how many pieces' of 'what kind of paper' went into the envelope.
{This program had enough 'smarts' in it that it would tell you if eliminating
_one_ (or sometimes two) sheets from the run would save on postage. Over
time, made for about a 10% reduction in postage costs for the mailings.}

One of the _few_ times my print-shop *didn't* have an 'instant answer' for
me was the day I called up and asked "the {mumble} paper stock we use, what's
the _basis_size_ for it?" He'd _never_ had a customer ask *that* question
before. grin

[Robert Bonomi]

In article ,
Kerry Montgomery wrote:

But, if you're talking about Coated or Cover or paper of a type other than
Bond, the "standard" size isn't standard at all.

Actually, there -is- a 'standard' size for every type of paper -- the so-
called "basis size" for that type of stock. The size is just different,
depending on the type of stock. involved.

The 'full sheet' sizes for the various types of paper are 'de facto'
standardized across manufacturers, simply because they have to be fed to
the same presses. grin