My 1-3/4" thick solid laminated maple work bench is exactly that, solid.
That means no dog holes. Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter bench
dog holes that are actually vertical as they should be and not slightly
tilted? I've considered using my router except that it would create quite a
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench is
located in my living room.

Thanks

"Upscale" wrote in message
Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter bench dog holes that are
actually vertical as they should be.

It also occurred to me. Is there a recommended spacing for these holes? My
bench is 72" long x 30" deep.

I used a spade bit with drill guide called a Portalign. I don't think
it's in production any more, but there are similar devices around,
such this one from Sears:

http://www.mysears.com/Craftsman-Drill-Guide-reviews

For using the dogs in the table with dogs on a moveable vice jaw, the
table holes should be spaced no farther apart than the vice travel.

Mine were 7/8" diameter. Some pictures he

http://bullfire.net/Bench/WP_Bench.html

I'm not sure I can help much with the mess the drilling will make.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Upscale" wrote in message
Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter bench dog holes that are
actually vertical as they should be.

It also occurred to me. Is there a recommended spacing for these holes? My
bench is 72" long x 30" deep.


The spacing should be equal to the stroke of your vice. I have mine at 12"
and I also have
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,41637,41645

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
The spacing should be equal to the stroke of your vice. I have mine at
12" and I also have
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,41637,41645

Yup, I've been eyeing those for awhile as well as the Veritas surface vise.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...25&cat=1,41637

Assuming I ignore the stoke of the vise (it's well over 12"), and
considering the use of bench dogs and pups, I was wondering how far in from
the front edge I should place the first line of holes?

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 00:12:15 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Upscale" wrote in message
Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter bench dog holes that are
actually vertical as they should be.

It also occurred to me. Is there a recommended spacing for these holes? My
bench is 72" long x 30" deep.


The spacing should be equal to the stroke of your vice.

Just _short_ of the working stroke.



I have mine at 12" and I also have
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,41637,41645

Bench pups are nice, but DAMN, look what they're getting for them now!
I hate that the Canuckistani Ducat is so high now. I got them for a
whole lot cheaper last decade.

--
To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.
-- J. K. Rowling

On Nov 13, 8:19*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
My 1-3/4" thick solid laminated maple work bench is exactly that, solid.
That means no dog holes. Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter bench
dog holes that are actually vertical as they should be and not slightly
tilted? I've considered using my router except that it would create quite a
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench is
located in my living room.

Thanks

I used Rockler's long shank 3/4" carbide forstner drill bit plus their
drill guide:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...=drill%20guide

On Nov 13, 7:19*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
..... I've considered using my router except that it would create quite
a
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench is
located in my living room.

This has turned into an interesting and informative string. But I have
to ask the question:

Why is it in you living room? Just nosy. :^}

RonB

"RonB" wrote in message
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench
is
located in my living room.

Why is it in you living room? Just nosy. :^}

Essentially, it's because I live in a one bedroom apartment and use a
wheelchair. In well over 10 years of looking, I haven't been able to find a
wheelchair accessible space to rent or perhaps share with someone that is
within the realm of affordable. I'd be willing to pay $300-$400 a month for
a space that's accessible and less than 30 minutes or so Toronto transit
travel time time. So far, I've not been able to find anything other than
commercial spaces that are $1000 a month and up. To compound the problem,
Toronto's subway system is slightly less than 50% wheelchair accessible
which cuts down greatly on my potential search area.

"Upscale" wrote in
:


"RonB" wrote in message
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the
bench is
located in my living room.

Why is it in you living room? Just nosy. :^}

Essentially, it's because I live in a one bedroom apartment and use a
wheelchair. In well over 10 years of looking, I haven't been able to
find a wheelchair accessible space to rent or perhaps share with
someone that is within the realm of affordable. I'd be willing to pay
$300-$400 a month for a space that's accessible and less than 30
minutes or so Toronto transit travel time time. So far, I've not been
able to find anything other than commercial spaces that are $1000 a
month and up. To compound the problem, Toronto's subway system is
slightly less than 50% wheelchair accessible which cuts down greatly
on my potential search area.




Upscale,

Here is Southern California apartments known as live/work units are now
becoming popular in urban areas. I did some design work in one that had a
rollup door on the ground level with the living areas above. The building
has elevator service to get from one level to another. One such place I
worked on you can see at this website.

http://www.bluwatercrossingapts.com/...hotos/property
[id]/22170/

Floor plan he

http://www.bluwatercrossingapts.com/...bcb439d9d199.j
pg

Hope this helps.

Steve

Perhaps contacting a real estate agent and telling them you want a
live/work unit.

On Nov 14, 8:11*am, RonB wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:19*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
.... I've considered using my router except that it would create quite
a

bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench is
located in my living room.

This has turned into an interesting and informative string. But I have
to ask the question:

Why is it in you living room? * *Just nosy. * :^}

RonB

If I had my way, mine would be there, too -- and I'm sure
I'm not the only one. Hand tools are quiet enough, and
the temperature and humidity are near perfect.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:19:19 -0500, Upscale wrote:

My 1-3/4" thick solid laminated maple work bench is exactly that, solid.
That means no dog holes. Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter
bench dog holes that are actually vertical as they should be and not
slightly tilted?

Everyone to his own preferences, but why do you object to the slight
tilt? My experience has been that a tilt of a few degrees (I believe
mine is 4 or 5 degrees) towards the vise keeps the dogs from tilting
backwards or riding up when pressure is applied.

On your followup question about hole spacing, it should be at most a
little less than your vise stroke. I set mine about half that to ensure
most of a board is always flat on the table. I use a variation of a
French leg vise and have one at the front and back edges of the bench. I
put one row of holes in line with each of those vises and another right
down the middle.

A handy add on is a "double dog" that spans the bench (or the two vises)
and another that spans from either edge to the center row of holes.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
Everyone to his own preferences, but why do you object to the slight
tilt? My experience has been that a tilt of a few degrees (I believe
mine is 4 or 5 degrees) towards the vise keeps the dogs from tilting
backwards or riding up when pressure is applied.

I agree with those comments only that I maybe mistakenly assumed that the
slight downward tilt needed was already incorporated in the flat face of
most bench dogs. As demonstrated with these two bench dogs which have 2 and
3 degree downward faces built in.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...37,41645,31127
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...37,41645,31129

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:40:34 -0500, Upscale wrote:

I agree with those comments only that I maybe mistakenly assumed that
the slight downward tilt needed was already incorporated in the flat
face of most bench dogs.

Oh. I made my own to save money and they're just plywood shapes
(various) attached to a dowel. So I tilted the holes in the bench.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Nov 13, 7:19*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
My 1-3/4" thick solid laminated maple work bench is exactly that, solid.
That means no dog holes. Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter bench
dog holes that are actually vertical as they should be and not slightly
tilted? I've considered using my router except that it would create quite a
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench is
located in my living room.

Thanks

I had a similar size benchtop, same materials and thickness. I hiked
it up on my drill press using a roller ball support stand on either
side of the drill press. Then I used a 3/4" forstner bit to drill all
the holes. I used a couple of Bessey cabinet clamps to clamp it to the
drill press table before I drilled each hole. It sounds cumbersome but
it actually went pretty fast and smooth once I got the benchtop loaded
on the two stands.

Bob

Yikes, my slab is over 250 lbs. I could not imagine doing that.
I had enough trouble getting it down the stairs.

I used a router with a 3/4 ONSRUD spiral cutter. It too went fast.

On 11/17/2010 10:01 AM, Bob wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:19 pm, wrote:
My 1-3/4" thick solid laminated maple work bench is exactly that, solid.
That means no dog holes. Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter bench
dog holes that are actually vertical as they should be and not slightly
tilted? I've considered using my router except that it would create quite a
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench is
located in my living room.

Thanks

I had a similar size benchtop, same materials and thickness. I hiked
it up on my drill press using a roller ball support stand on either
side of the drill press. Then I used a 3/4" forstner bit to drill all
the holes. I used a couple of Bessey cabinet clamps to clamp it to the
drill press table before I drilled each hole. It sounds cumbersome but
it actually went pretty fast and smooth once I got the benchtop loaded
on the two stands.

Bob

What am I missing here? Is this really rocket surgery?
What's wrong with a hand held drill and a Forstner bit?
Don't bench dogs work with the friction of being pushed from the side?
To my knowledge, you shouldn't have to pound them in and out, so who
needs a perfect hole?

Or am I wrong? There's always a first. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:24:14 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

What's wrong with
a hand held drill and a Forstner bit?

Out of curiosity, why a Forstner bit? Don't dog holes go all the way
through?

I've never used a Forstner bit in other than a drill press. Seems I read
somewhere they weren't safe otherwise.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:24:14 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:


What's wrong with
a hand held drill and a Forstner bit?


Out of curiosity, why a Forstner bit? Don't dog holes go all the way
through?

I've never used a Forstner bit in other than a drill press. Seems I read
somewhere they weren't safe otherwise.


By design using a Forstner bit will give you an indication that the hole
is started perpendicular to the table top. Once started the design of
the bit will aid in keeping it perpendicular.

I use Forstner bits in a hand held drill frequently. I've never had a
problem... although you have to keep a tight grip on the drill when
using the larger bits.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On 11/17/10 5:44 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:24:14 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

What's wrong with
a hand held drill and a Forstner bit?

Out of curiosity, why a Forstner bit? Don't dog holes go all the way
through?


Ok, a spade bit. I figured the entry hole would be cleaner.


I've never used a Forstner bit in other than a drill press. Seems I read
somewhere they weren't safe otherwise.


Poppycosh. (I've never used that word, until now.)
I use them all the time in a hand held drill.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/17/10 6:44 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:24:14 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

What's wrong with
a hand held drill and a Forstner bit?

Out of curiosity, why a Forstner bit? Don't dog holes go all the way
through?

I've never used a Forstner bit in other than a drill press. Seems I read
somewhere they weren't safe otherwise.

I've drilled the holes for Euro style hinges with my cordless Dewalt,
worked perfectly and I can still count to ten.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

In article , says...

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:24:14 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

What's wrong with
a hand held drill and a Forstner bit?

Out of curiosity, why a Forstner bit? Don't dog holes go all the way
through?

I've never used a Forstner bit in other than a drill press. Seems I read
somewhere they weren't safe otherwise.

Lot of bull**** out there. They are hard to start cleanly if the drill
and the work are not held rigidly. A _big_ one in a Hole Hawg or the
like might get away from you, but a 3/4 in a typical cordless drill is
no more dangerous than a 3/4 brad point.

They are perfectly safe in a hand held drill. You can even drill on an
angle because of the support around the outside. They are just not a
very fast cutting bit, and don't clear chips well. My maple slab is
2.75" thick. A forstener is slow.. Also with my router I made a base
plate to insert a dog and put a fence on it. So it registers the last
hole. The router bit cut clean and quick. My base plate was a zero
clearence plate too.

On 11/17/2010 6:44 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:24:14 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

What's wrong with
a hand held drill and a Forstner bit?

Out of curiosity, why a Forstner bit? Don't dog holes go all the way
through?

I've never used a Forstner bit in other than a drill press. Seems I read
somewhere they weren't safe otherwise.

They work great - drill on an angle or through odd stuff.

I like the aggressive ones - those with teeth edges and a hook
while the standard ones are knife edges with a hook that cuts.

I use a 3/8" electric hand drill and once a 1/2" hammer drill in drill only.

Martin

On 11/17/2010 5:44 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:24:14 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

What's wrong with
a hand held drill and a Forstner bit?

Out of curiosity, why a Forstner bit? Don't dog holes go all the way
through?

I've never used a Forstner bit in other than a drill press. Seems I read
somewhere they weren't safe otherwise.

"tiredofspam" wrote in message
...

Yikes, my slab is over 250 lbs. I could not imagine doing that.
I had enough trouble getting it down the stairs.

With my itty bitty drill press it would be easier to clamp the drill press
onto the bench and drill the holes that way.

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Yikes, my slab is over 250 lbs. I could not imagine doing that.
I had enough trouble getting it down the stairs.

I used a router with a 3/4 ONSRUD spiral cutter. It too went fast.

Was is a carbide spiral cutter or a steel one? So far I've only been able to
find steel ones (1/2"shank). Considering the number of holes I'd like to
drill, I'm concerned that a steel one will wear out or at least lose it's
edge before I'm finished.

"Upscale" wrote :

Was is a carbide spiral cutter or a steel one? So far I've only been
able to find steel ones (1/2"shank). Considering the number of holes
I'd like to drill, I'm concerned that a steel one will wear out or
at least lose it's edge before I'm finished.
-----------------------
Which is why I posted my previous mea culpa.

Given your bench is only 1-3/4" thick, a 3/4" x 2", 2 blade straight
cut router bit with 1/2" shank shouldn't have a problem clearing the
chips.

If it were 3"-4" thick, different story, but it's only 1-3/4",
different story.

Just make sure to use ac backer to eliminate tear out.


Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
If it were 3"-4" thick, different story, but it's only 1-3/4", different
story.

Haven't seen too many plunge routers with a 4" depth cutting ability anyway.

Just make sure to use ac backer to eliminate tear out.

Of course, that's just common sense. Since I'll be using a template guide
for the router I'm considering hogging out most of each hole with a 1/2" or
so spade bit and then come along with the router to more easily finish the
holes. But, I'll try a few initial holes with the bit only and if the going
is not too difficult, I won't bother using the spade bit.

On Nov 17, 9:01*am, Bob wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:19*pm, "Upscale" wrote:

My 1-3/4" thick solid laminated maple work bench is exactly that, solid..
That means no dog holes. Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter bench
dog holes that are actually vertical as they should be and not slightly
tilted? I've considered using my router except that it would create quite a
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench is
located in my living room.

Thanks

I had a similar size benchtop, same materials and thickness. I hiked
it up on my drill press using a roller ball support stand on either
side of the drill press. *Then I used a 3/4" forstner bit to drill all
the holes. I used a couple of Bessey cabinet clamps to clamp it to the
drill press table before I drilled each hole. It sounds cumbersome but
it actually went pretty fast and smooth once I got the benchtop loaded
on the two stands.

Bob

$30 drill guide and a sharp spade bit did a fine job on my table of 3-
inch white oak. Clamp a backup piece to the bottom to prevent exit
tearout.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
My 1-3/4" thick solid laminated maple work bench is exactly that, solid.
That means no dog holes. Anyone have experience drilling 3/4" diameter
bench dog holes that are actually vertical as they should be and not
slightly tilted? I've considered using my router except that it would
create quite a bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering
that the bench is located in my living room.

Thanks


Plunge router? Tape it in place and put tape around any openings that duse
would escape with the exception of where you attach you Festool Vac. Use a
3/4" straight bit.

"Leon" wrote:

Plunge router?
------------------

Already covered.

See my previous posts.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Leon" wrote:

Plunge router?
------------------

Already covered.

See my previous posts.

Lew



Sorry, Like Minds..

"Leon" wrote in message
Plunge router? Tape it in place and put tape around any openings that
duse would escape with the exception of where you attach you Festool Vac.
Use a 3/4" straight bit.

Yup, that's going to be my preferred method as suggested by Lew. It won't
be too difficult for me to make a simple enclosure with the CT22 attached
to house the router while I cut the holes. I already have a 3/4" carbide
router bit, but it's single flute and I've long intended to buy a double
flute bit, so this is my opportunity. A pieced of hardboard used as a
template guide will round off the process.

I briefly considered using a brad point drill or perhaps a spade drill, but
since I'm unable to lean over the drill to put weight on it as well as to
easily eyeball a decent vertical entry point, my plunge router seems like
the obvious choice.

Now, all I have to do is to convince my best friend to let me "borrow" my
plunge router back from him.

On 11/17/10 6:55 PM, Upscale wrote:
I briefly considered using a brad point drill or perhaps a spade drill, but
since I'm unable to lean over the drill to put weight on it as well as to
easily eyeball a decent vertical entry point, my plunge router seems like
the obvious choice.


I wasn't considering your circumstances when suggesting the drill.
However, any drill bit would produce far less dust, which was your main
concern, no?

Do you know anyone with a right angle drill?
I think you would be able to produce adequate down force with one of
those.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Upscale, considering your problem with exerting adequate down force when
drilling, have you every tried any type of self-feeding drill bits? Most
are more of a carpenter tool rather than a woodworking tool, the quality of
the hole will be more like a spade bit than a forstner, but maybe they
would be useful to you. Something like an Irwin Speedbore. There are
several other variations. (Still won't help with keeping the hole plumb,
though)


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

"Larry W" wrote in message
Upscale, considering your problem with exerting adequate down force when
drilling, have you every tried any type of self-feeding drill bits? Most
are more of a carpenter tool rather than a woodworking tool, the quality
of
the hole will be more like a spade bit than a forstner, but maybe they
would be useful to you. Something like an Irwin Speedbore.

Part of the problem is that I've had self feeding bits get away from me and
unless they're rigidly controlled, they drive themselves into the wood like
a screw, especially soft wood. I have to be pretty careful when drilling.
Just another irritation to experience when you can't bring your full body
weight to bear controlling a tool. I do have a set of Irwin Speedbore spade
bits and when using them I drill a bit, retract and drill a bit more. Seems
to work and usually, they don't pull away from me.

I also have a very basic small benchtop drill press. If the plunge router
set up doesn't work as hoped, I'll use the drill press and spade bit to
drill the holes.

On Nov 13, 5:19*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
I've considered using my router except that it would create quite a
bit of dust and that's not at all desirable considering that the bench is
located in my living room.

Time to splurge for a Festering router & shop vac. If you can't afford
it, I'm sure Rob will be glad to give you the toys^H^Hols as he now
has a surfeit of them. :-)

Luigi

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message news
Time to splurge for a Festering router & shop vac. If you can't afford
it, I'm sure Rob will be glad to give you the toys as he now
has a surfeit of them. :-)

Already have the Festering shop vac. Considered the Festering router, but at
the current retail price of $910, it's going to have to wait.

As far as Rob goes, I've invited him several times to drop by for a beer. So
far, he's resisted. I think he knows I'm only interested in the machinery he
has.

"Upscale" wrote:

Already have the Festering shop vac. Considered the Festering
router, but at the current retail price of $910, it's going to have
to wait.
---------------------
Just curious, what does a Milwaukee 5625 set you back these days?

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
b.com...

"Upscale" wrote:

Already have the Festering shop vac. Considered the Festering router, but
at the current retail price of $910, it's going to have to wait.
---------------------
Just curious, what does a Milwaukee 5625 set you back these days?

Lew



$270

--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...