I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw
and PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to
a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade
was still spinning.

You had to literally "feel" the blade still turning by touching the
table.

Those of you who have a PM66 are aware of this phenomena; however, if
you buy a PM66, be aware.

A PM66 is NOT the same as the General or the Unisaw.

BTW: These saws were all equipped with Biesemeyer fences.

Strong like bull, but give me a Unifence anyday.


Lew

On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw
and PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to
a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade
was still spinning.

The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was exactly
this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table saw.

You had to literally "feel" the blade still turning by touching the
table.

Those of you who have a PM66 are aware of this phenomena; however, if
you buy a PM66, be aware.

A PM66 is NOT the same as the General or the Unisaw.

BTW: These saws were all equipped with Biesemeyer fences.

Strong like bull, but give me a Unifence anyday.

Never used a Unifence, so can't say whether I'd like it better or not.
Why?

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw
and PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to
a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade
was still spinning.

The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was
exactly
this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table saw.

You had to literally "feel" the blade still turning by touching the
table.

Those of you who have a PM66 are aware of this phenomena; however, if
you buy a PM66, be aware.

A PM66 is NOT the same as the General or the Unisaw.

BTW: These saws were all equipped with Biesemeyer fences.

Strong like bull, but give me a Unifence anyday.

Never used a Unifence, so can't say whether I'd like it better or not.
Why?

Strange, I had a PM66 and didn't feel it took that long to coast down. I'm
not disagreeing- just commenting. It sure was a great saw and once adjusted
with the TS Aligner, it stayed that way.

Nonny

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw
and PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come
to a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade
was still spinning.

The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was
exactly this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table
saw.


Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the
while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a
complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.

"HeyBub" wrote

Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all
the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to
a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.


They have. Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a
washing machine.

Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a
washing machine.

How do you know this? LOL.

Sonny

On 8/7/2010 11:22 PM, HeyBub wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw
and PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come
to a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade
was still spinning.

The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was
exactly this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table
saw.


Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the
while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a
complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.

They did in the EU and then found out that the mandated brake wouldn't
stop a dado in the specified time, so their solution was to require that
the shaft be too short to accommodate a dado. Be careful what you wish for.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw
and PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come
to a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade
was still spinning.

The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was
exactly this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table
saw.


Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all
the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to
a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.


My Hitachi has a brake. Last shop I worked in (that I used a tablesaw),
there was a rule that when you turned it off, you cranked the blade down
below table height. Not always possible but could do so most of the time.

On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 21:35:10 -0700, "CW" wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
om...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw
and PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come
to a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade
was still spinning.

The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was
exactly this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table
saw.


Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all
the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to
a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.


My Hitachi has a brake. Last shop I worked in (that I used a tablesaw),
there was a rule that when you turned it off, you cranked the blade down
below table height. Not always possible but could do so most of the time.

Musta been one PITA for dado cuts. ;-)

wrote in message
...
Musta been one PITA for dado cuts. ;-)


As I said, not always possible though I never had a need for a dado blade. I
was making vacuum molds, not furniture.

"Sonny" wrote in message
...
Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a
washing machine.

How do you know this? LOL.

Sonny

Sorry, that is confidential information by the R & D department.

Lobby Dosser wrote:

None of these saws have blade guards?

Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as
much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new
saw.

Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for
the company's benefit, not the consumers'.

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 07:09:17 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote:

Lobby Dosser wrote:

None of these saws have blade guards?

Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as
much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new
saw.

You mean the one that says that the saw is not for internal use?

Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for
the company's benefit, not the consumers'.

I must be the odd-man-out here. I often use the blade guard. I'll put it on
if I plan on doing a lot of ripping and what I'm ripping isn't too narrow.
IOW, if the guard is more use than it is hindrance.

On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 23:34:55 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote

Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all
the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to
a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.


They have. Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a
washing machine.

So *that's* what happens to the missing socks.

dpb wrote:
....

in the cabinet shop in the local community college they are very
proactive in safety procedures and equipment. AFAIK in the 39 years'
existence there has not been a tablesaw accident.
....

And, actually, even more than the insurance folks who are generally more
of the "helpful in spotting problems types" in their reviews, it's the
regional accreditation team that's the real stickler and the ones can't
see how any institution would be able to get around...

--

On Aug 8, 8:09*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Lobby Dosser wrote:

None of these saws have blade guards?

Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as
much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new
saw.

Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for
the company's benefit, not the consumers'.

These are not mutually exclusive. The problem is that safety
equipment and ease of operation do seem to be mutually exclusive -
except for the SawStop. Then it's safety and affordability are
mutually exclusive. For now.

It's the same as seatbelts in a car. As a kid I used to bitch and
moan when my Mom would insist I put on the seatbelt. Then it became a
habit and I didn't even think about it. I'd be dead twice or thrice
over if it weren't for seatbelts

R

None of these saws have blade guards?

We had two cabinet saws, neither had guards. I have owned two saws myself.
First one, I had the guard on for about two days, then I took it off and
never put it back. The one I have now, I never put the guard on. Didn't
even know that I still had it. Ran across it the other day, still in the
factory sealed bag.

You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard
on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching
carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any
and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times.

For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the
table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they
really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases.

Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious
exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts
that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are
guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above.

So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until
they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard
slows them down or prevents accurate cutting.
--
Jim in NC

On 8/8/2010 2:18 PM, Morgans wrote:
None of these saws have blade guards?

We had two cabinet saws, neither had guards. I have owned two saws myself.
First one, I had the guard on for about two days, then I took it off and
never put it back. The one I have now, I never put the guard on. Didn't
even know that I still had it. Ran across it the other day, still in the
factory sealed bag.

You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard
on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching
carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any
and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times.

For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the
table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they
really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases.

Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious
exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts
that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are
guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above.

So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until
they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard
slows them down or prevents accurate cutting.

Most of the cuts I've done in the past month have used a sled of some
kind--for that the guard provided with my saw is not workable--while in
some cases the sled will slide under it various pieces raise the guard
so high that it might as well not be there.

At the same time, on repetitive cuts, I find myself losing focus on the
blade--I know that if I don't put some kind of guard in place I'm going
to hit it eventually. You do 20 or so of the same movement and a
conditioned response starts to form that takes the higher brain
functions out of the loop ("wax on, wax off"). So project for the week
is figuring out how to guard the sled.

Years ago I was attempting to create a CD rack (bored) using an old 3/4"
piece of oak. I was going to dado some exact width slots in it for the CD's
to stand up and tilt in, using a table mounted router.

After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came right
up through the top (backside) of the piece. The router depth locking screw
came loose (or I forgot to tighten it) and the vibration from the table made
the router gear rack screw itself right up through the 3/4" depth of the
wood instead on holding a 3/8" depth slot. I never figured that was possible
until I was staring at the 30K RPM bit by my fingers.

Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one
learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over top
of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher sticks
and distance became paramount.



"Morgans" wrote in message
...
You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard
on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching
carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any
and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times.

For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the
table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they
really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases.

Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious
exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts
that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are
guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above.

So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until
they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard
slows them down or prevents accurate cutting.
--
Jim in NC

On Aug 8, 3:10*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Years ago I was attempting to create a CD rack (bored) using an old 3/4"
piece *of oak. I was going to dado some exact width slots in it for the CD's
to stand up and tilt in, using a table mounted router.

After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came right
up through the top (backside) of the piece. The router depth locking screw
came loose (or I forgot to tighten it) and the vibration from the table made
the router gear rack screw itself right up through the 3/4" depth of the
wood instead on holding a 3/8" depth slot. I never figured that was possible
until I was staring at the 30K RPM bit by my fingers.

Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one
learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over top
of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher sticks
and distance became paramount.

That's an oddball one. I would have figured the weight of the router
would have caused the whole shebang to drop, not rise. I could see a
loose collet causing the bit to rise. Either way, it's like Sancho
Panza said, "Whether the rock hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits
the rock, it's bad for the pitcher."

R

"Morgans" wrote in
:

You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a
guard
on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job
teaching carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear
to me that any and all safety devices available were to be used, at
all times.

For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to
run the table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize
that they really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases.

Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious
exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other
cuts that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then,
there are guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned
above.

So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard
until they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where
the guard slows them down or prevents accurate cutting.

I think a lot of the problem is home table saw guards aren't good enough.
The first table saw I had was a Craftsman entry-level saw, and the guard
did not align with the saw blade at all. My current saw is a Ridgid, and
the guard takes a few minutes to adjust to be behind the blade exactly,
and has to be removed to allow trimming 1/8"-1/4" off one side to get a
decent edge.

There's better mounting mechanisms (behind the blade on the blade height
riser [riving knife style]) and new guard designs to allow trimming cuts
(each side of the guard moves independently) but I haven't used either of
them yet to say if they're really better.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On Aug 7, 9:31*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.


2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to
a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

That is what got me about 10 years ago and it wasn't a PM66. If was
an old Craftsman contractor's saw that I used to own. Shut the switch
of and started to walk away with a handful of small spaces I had just
cut off. I looked over my shoulder and noticed one on the table next
to be blade. In a brain-dead moment I over-reached the blade and got
nicked, to the bone, on a fingertip. Even the clunky old Craftsman
was still spinning down.

Stupid but it sure taught a lesson.

RonB

On Aug 8, 11:36*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 8, 8:09*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Lobby Dosser wrote:

None of these saws have blade guards?

Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as
much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new
saw.

Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for
the company's benefit, not the consumers'.

These are not mutually exclusive. *The problem is that safety
equipment and ease of operation do seem to be mutually exclusive -
except for the SawStop. *Then it's safety and affordability are
mutually exclusive. *For now.

It's the same as seatbelts in a car. *As a kid I used to bitch and
moan when my Mom would insist I put on the seatbelt. *Then it became a
habit and I didn't even think about it. *I'd be dead twice or thrice
over if it weren't for seatbelts

R

Watch what happens if the SawStop technology is forced on high school
and smaller tech schools. Our high school just dropped the
woodworking program because the lawyer told them to add SawStop
technology or close the program. They had finally upgraded to a
couple of new Powermatics after nearly 30 years with now worn out
Unisaws. Couldn't afford to upgrade again so they sold the shop off.

RonB

On Aug 8, 3:43*pm, RonB wrote:

Watch what happens if the SawStop technology is forced on high school
and smaller tech schools. *Our high school just dropped the
woodworking program because the lawyer told them to add SawStop
technology or close the program. *They had finally upgraded to a
couple of new Powermatics after nearly 30 years with now worn out
Unisaws. *Couldn't afford to upgrade again so they sold the shop off.

SawStop is a game changer, no doubt about that. Losing high school
shop programs is totally unacceptable. My HS sucked - we didn't have
any shop programs at all. I used to drool over the things my older
brother would bring back from shop class at his high school. I wonder
sometimes how different my life would be if there had been a wood
shop. Maybe nothing would have changed, I don't know. Maybe I would
just have had better training and several more years of experience.

R

"Josepi" wrote

After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came
right
up through the top (backside) of the piece.

Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one
learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over
top
of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher
sticks
and distance became paramount.

Yep, I have had the router bit getting loose, too. No scary moments,
though. I always teach that just like a gun not being ponted at anyone, to
body parts above spinny cutty things, ever.
--
Jim in NC

"J. Clarke" wrote

Most of the cuts I've done in the past month have used a sled of some
kind--for that the guard provided with my saw is not workable--while in
some cases the sled will slide under it various pieces raise the guard so
high that it might as well not be there.

No problem. Put a guard on the sled. With tools and bits and pieces
around, it takes about 30 seconds.

Have a tall fence on the sled, front and back, with a piece of plexi drilled
and screwed onto the sled fence, front and back. The plexi is only wide
enoug to cover past where you would never put your fingers, anyway, so it
does not impeed use, at al.

Have some blocks around of different height, for different thickness
workpieces.

Too wide for your sled to have a block on each side? Put both blocks on one
side, and let the plexi cantilever over the cutting area.

My point is, if you _ _have_ _ to have a guard on your saw, you _will_ be
creative and think of a way to get the job done, as you want to do it, and
still be safe.
--
Jim in NC

On 8/8/2010 4:35 PM, Morgans wrote:
"J. wrote

Most of the cuts I've done in the past month have used a sled of some
kind--for that the guard provided with my saw is not workable--while in
some cases the sled will slide under it various pieces raise the guard so
high that it might as well not be there.

No problem. Put a guard on the sled. With tools and bits and pieces
around, it takes about 30 seconds.

If it was just a sled that would be fine, but the sled holds various
jigs and fixtures and the trick is fitting the guard so that they all
still work properly.

Have a tall fence on the sled, front and back, with a piece of plexi drilled
and screwed onto the sled fence, front and back. The plexi is only wide
enoug to cover past where you would never put your fingers, anyway, so it
does not impeed use, at al.

Have some blocks around of different height, for different thickness
workpieces.

Too wide for your sled to have a block on each side? Put both blocks on one
side, and let the plexi cantilever over the cutting area.

My point is, if you _ _have_ _ to have a guard on your saw, you _will_ be
creative and think of a way to get the job done, as you want to do it, and
still be safe.

Yep. But it's not going to be trivial for this particular case.

On 8/8/2010 3:10 PM, Josepi wrote:
Years ago I was attempting to create a CD rack (bored) using an old 3/4"
piece of oak. I was going to dado some exact width slots in it for the CD's
to stand up and tilt in, using a table mounted router.

After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came right
up through the top (backside) of the piece. The router depth locking screw
came loose (or I forgot to tighten it) and the vibration from the table made
the router gear rack screw itself right up through the 3/4" depth of the
wood instead on holding a 3/8" depth slot. I never figured that was possible
until I was staring at the 30K RPM bit by my fingers.

Upcut spiral? If so that's common. When I use one of those I clean the
collet and the bit _every_ time using a .50 caliber bore brush, a .50
caliber jag and patches, and lacquer thinner as solvent. So far haven't
had one come out since I started doing that.

Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one
learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over top
of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher sticks
and distance became paramount.

Yeah, I was fortunate enough to not get bitten by it.

To paraphrase Melville, I will not have a man in my shop who is not
afraid of a router.

wrote in message
...
You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard
on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching
carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any
and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times.

For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the
table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they
really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases.

Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious
exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts
that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are
guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above.

So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until
they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard
slows them down or prevents accurate cutting.

On Aug 8, 3:25*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 8, 3:43*pm, RonB wrote:



Watch what happens if the SawStop technology is forced on high school
and smaller tech schools. *Our high school just dropped the
woodworking program because the lawyer told them to add SawStop
technology or close the program. *They had finally upgraded to a
couple of new Powermatics after nearly 30 years with now worn out
Unisaws. *Couldn't afford to upgrade again so they sold the shop off.

SawStop is a game changer, no doubt about that. *Losing high school
shop programs is totally unacceptable. *My HS sucked - we didn't have


Agree - As the original poster noted most good schools press safety.
We will have more folks starting off with little if any training.

Ron

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw and
PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a
rest than either the General or Unisaw.

WOW! That is an exceptionally long time. I wonder if it is because of the
type belt that is used, not the typical v-belt rather the less resistant
serpentine belts.


Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade was
still spinning.

That may be more to do with lighting. I recall 40 years ago my shop teacher
warning to be careful around the blade during spin down as it went and out
of phase with the floresent lighting. Basically working like an automotive
timing light. It did indeed appear to be paused a few times when shud town.
As it would slow to near in phase timing the blade would appear to go
backwards, stop, spin forward, etc. If the blade takes an exceptionally
long time to come to a stop the "in phase" periods with the lighting would
last longer.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...



Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all
the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to
a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.


Sawstop

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"HeyBub" wrote

Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all
the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come
to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.


They have. Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a
washing machine.


Dont count on it. I experimented with this several years ago using a
canvas/leather work glove. The blade left a clean kerf. There was the
notion that if you used gloves with a TS the blade could catch the glove and
pull your hand in. I do not recoment using a glove BTY but cloth and
leather cut much more easily than wood.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Aug 8, 3:10 pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Years ago I was attempting to create a CD rack (bored) using an old 3/4"
piece of oak. I was going to dado some exact width slots in it for the
CD's
to stand up and tilt in, using a table mounted router.

After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came
right
up through the top (backside) of the piece. The router depth locking screw
came loose (or I forgot to tighten it) and the vibration from the table
made
the router gear rack screw itself right up through the 3/4" depth of the
wood instead on holding a 3/8" depth slot. I never figured that was
possible
until I was staring at the 30K RPM bit by my fingers.

Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one
learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over
top
of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher
sticks
and distance became paramount.

That's an oddball one. I would have figured the weight of the router
would have caused the whole shebang to drop, not rise. I could see a
loose collet causing the bit to rise. Either way, it's like Sancho
Panza said, "Whether the rock hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits
the rock, it's bad for the pitcher."

It was very common with Craftsman routers for the bit to raise up but it was
the bit slipping out of the collet rather than the motor defying gravity.

"RonB" wrote

Agree - As the original poster noted most good schools press safety.
We will have more folks starting off with little if any training.

Ron

With less emphasis on safety. Shame

Max

Leon wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...



Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and
all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing
machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.


Sawstop

Nah - don't need sawstop for this need Leon. A simple brake is all that is
necessary. With all of the chop saws that come with brakes today, it really
should be no big deal for a table saw to have the same capability - it's
been around forever.

--

-Mike-

The only problem I have with all these safety devices is that, in my
experience with the Fire Department, they do tend to have unintended
consequences; that being that people tend to be less concious of safety.
The government can only do so much to require things to be foolproof.
There really is no such thing.
My wife's car tells the driver when the lights are left on, to fasten a seat
belt, if a door is ajar, if the trunk lid or hood is open, if the fuel level
is low,
and probably several other things that I've not yet had the occasion to
experience. And I'm not even going to tell you about the GPS!!
It's enough to give me an inferiority complex.

Max

Only takes a simple SPST switch in the power switch and a resistor to absorb
the energy and help stop the switch contacts from burning out so fast.
Syncro motors genertae enough induced EMF to make the stop suprisingly,
quite dramatically. Many chop saws attempt to do this without the energy
absorption ballast resistor and the switch burns out in a few months.


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Nah - don't need sawstop for this need Leon. A simple brake is all that is
necessary. With all of the chop saws that come with brakes today, it really
should be no big deal for a table saw to have the same capability - it's
been around forever.

--

-Mike-




Leon wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...



Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and
all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing
machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.


Sawstop

In article ,
Mike Marlow wrote:
...snipped...
Nah - don't need sawstop for this need Leon. A simple brake is all that is
necessary. With all of the chop saws that come with brakes today, it really
should be no big deal for a table saw to have the same capability - it's
been around forever.

--

I agree with that: I've seen brake setups on industrial machinery powered
by 150 HP motors, geared down to about 30 RPM turning a roller that weighed
a few tons, that could stop the roller in less than a 1/4 turn. I don't see
why any sacrificial parts are necessary for a saw to do what the sawstop
does. If Delta, Jet, etc. wanted to spend a little R&D money, they
could build a safer saw that was _better_ than sawstop.



--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Aug 8, 8:09 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Lobby Dosser wrote:

None of these saws have blade guards?

Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as
much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a
new
saw.

Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for
the company's benefit, not the consumers'.

These are not mutually exclusive. The problem is that safety
equipment and ease of operation do seem to be mutually exclusive -
except for the SawStop. Then it's safety and affordability are
mutually exclusive. For now.

It's the same as seatbelts in a car. As a kid I used to bitch and
moan when my Mom would insist I put on the seatbelt. Then it became a
habit and I didn't even think about it. I'd be dead twice or thrice
over if it weren't for seatbelts

You must be a young guy. When I was a kid, they didn't have seat belts.

On Aug 7, 11:22*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.

As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety.

They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw
and PM66.

Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents.

Analyzing these accidents revealed the following:

1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66.

2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come
to a rest than either the General or Unisaw.

Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade
was still spinning.

The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was
exactly this. *A blade brake would be a great addition to any table
saw.

Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the
while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a
complete stop in just a few seconds (like three).

It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Electric brake -- short out the supply wires after cutting the power,
and the motor forces itself to stop.