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T/S Inertia
I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college.
As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety. They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw and PM66. Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents. Analyzing these accidents revealed the following: 1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66. 2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a rest than either the General or Unisaw. Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade was still spinning. You had to literally "feel" the blade still turning by touching the table. Those of you who have a PM66 are aware of this phenomena; however, if you buy a PM66, be aware. A PM66 is NOT the same as the General or the Unisaw. BTW: These saws were all equipped with Biesemeyer fences. Strong like bull, but give me a Unifence anyday. Lew |
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On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote: I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college. As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety. They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw and PM66. Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents. Analyzing these accidents revealed the following: 1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66. 2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a rest than either the General or Unisaw. Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade was still spinning. The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was exactly this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table saw. You had to literally "feel" the blade still turning by touching the table. Those of you who have a PM66 are aware of this phenomena; however, if you buy a PM66, be aware. A PM66 is NOT the same as the General or the Unisaw. BTW: These saws were all equipped with Biesemeyer fences. Strong like bull, but give me a Unifence anyday. Never used a Unifence, so can't say whether I'd like it better or not. Why? |
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wrote in message ... On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college. As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety. They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw and PM66. Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents. Analyzing these accidents revealed the following: 1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66. 2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a rest than either the General or Unisaw. Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade was still spinning. The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was exactly this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table saw. You had to literally "feel" the blade still turning by touching the table. Those of you who have a PM66 are aware of this phenomena; however, if you buy a PM66, be aware. A PM66 is NOT the same as the General or the Unisaw. BTW: These saws were all equipped with Biesemeyer fences. Strong like bull, but give me a Unifence anyday. Never used a Unifence, so can't say whether I'd like it better or not. Why? Strange, I had a PM66 and didn't feel it took that long to coast down. I'm not disagreeing- just commenting. It sure was a great saw and once adjusted with the TS Aligner, it stayed that way. Nonny |
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"HeyBub" wrote Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws. They have. Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a washing machine. |
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Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a
washing machine. How do you know this? LOL. Sonny |
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"HeyBub" wrote in message m... zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college. As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety. They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw and PM66. Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents. Analyzing these accidents revealed the following: 1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66. 2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a rest than either the General or Unisaw. Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade was still spinning. The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was exactly this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table saw. Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws. My Hitachi has a brake. Last shop I worked in (that I used a tablesaw), there was a rule that when you turned it off, you cranked the blade down below table height. Not always possible but could do so most of the time. |
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On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 21:35:10 -0700, "CW" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message om... zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college. As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety. They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw and PM66. Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents. Analyzing these accidents revealed the following: 1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66. 2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a rest than either the General or Unisaw. Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade was still spinning. The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was exactly this. A blade brake would be a great addition to any table saw. Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws. My Hitachi has a brake. Last shop I worked in (that I used a tablesaw), there was a rule that when you turned it off, you cranked the blade down below table height. Not always possible but could do so most of the time. Musta been one PITA for dado cuts. ;-) |
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wrote in message ... Musta been one PITA for dado cuts. ;-) As I said, not always possible though I never had a need for a dado blade. I was making vacuum molds, not furniture. |
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"Sonny" wrote in message ... Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a washing machine. How do you know this? LOL. Sonny Sorry, that is confidential information by the R & D department. |
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Lobby Dosser wrote:
None of these saws have blade guards? Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new saw. Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for the company's benefit, not the consumers'. |
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On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 07:09:17 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote:
Lobby Dosser wrote: None of these saws have blade guards? Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new saw. You mean the one that says that the saw is not for internal use? Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for the company's benefit, not the consumers'. I must be the odd-man-out here. I often use the blade guard. I'll put it on if I plan on doing a lot of ripping and what I'm ripping isn't too narrow. IOW, if the guard is more use than it is hindrance. |
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On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 23:34:55 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws. They have. Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a washing machine. So *that's* what happens to the missing socks. |
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dpb wrote:
.... in the cabinet shop in the local community college they are very proactive in safety procedures and equipment. AFAIK in the 39 years' existence there has not been a tablesaw accident. .... And, actually, even more than the insurance folks who are generally more of the "helpful in spotting problems types" in their reviews, it's the regional accreditation team that's the real stickler and the ones can't see how any institution would be able to get around... -- |
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On Aug 8, 8:09*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Lobby Dosser wrote: None of these saws have blade guards? Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new saw. Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for the company's benefit, not the consumers'. These are not mutually exclusive. The problem is that safety equipment and ease of operation do seem to be mutually exclusive - except for the SawStop. Then it's safety and affordability are mutually exclusive. For now. It's the same as seatbelts in a car. As a kid I used to bitch and moan when my Mom would insist I put on the seatbelt. Then it became a habit and I didn't even think about it. I'd be dead twice or thrice over if it weren't for seatbelts R |
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None of these saws have blade guards?
We had two cabinet saws, neither had guards. I have owned two saws myself. First one, I had the guard on for about two days, then I took it off and never put it back. The one I have now, I never put the guard on. Didn't even know that I still had it. Ran across it the other day, still in the factory sealed bag. You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times. For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases. Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above. So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard slows them down or prevents accurate cutting. -- Jim in NC |
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On 8/8/2010 2:18 PM, Morgans wrote:
None of these saws have blade guards? We had two cabinet saws, neither had guards. I have owned two saws myself. First one, I had the guard on for about two days, then I took it off and never put it back. The one I have now, I never put the guard on. Didn't even know that I still had it. Ran across it the other day, still in the factory sealed bag. You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times. For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases. Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above. So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard slows them down or prevents accurate cutting. Most of the cuts I've done in the past month have used a sled of some kind--for that the guard provided with my saw is not workable--while in some cases the sled will slide under it various pieces raise the guard so high that it might as well not be there. At the same time, on repetitive cuts, I find myself losing focus on the blade--I know that if I don't put some kind of guard in place I'm going to hit it eventually. You do 20 or so of the same movement and a conditioned response starts to form that takes the higher brain functions out of the loop ("wax on, wax off"). So project for the week is figuring out how to guard the sled. |
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Years ago I was attempting to create a CD rack (bored) using an old 3/4"
piece of oak. I was going to dado some exact width slots in it for the CD's to stand up and tilt in, using a table mounted router. After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came right up through the top (backside) of the piece. The router depth locking screw came loose (or I forgot to tighten it) and the vibration from the table made the router gear rack screw itself right up through the 3/4" depth of the wood instead on holding a 3/8" depth slot. I never figured that was possible until I was staring at the 30K RPM bit by my fingers. Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over top of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher sticks and distance became paramount. "Morgans" wrote in message ... You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times. For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases. Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above. So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard slows them down or prevents accurate cutting. -- Jim in NC |
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On Aug 8, 3:10*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Years ago I was attempting to create a CD rack (bored) using an old 3/4" piece *of oak. I was going to dado some exact width slots in it for the CD's to stand up and tilt in, using a table mounted router. After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came right up through the top (backside) of the piece. The router depth locking screw came loose (or I forgot to tighten it) and the vibration from the table made the router gear rack screw itself right up through the 3/4" depth of the wood instead on holding a 3/8" depth slot. I never figured that was possible until I was staring at the 30K RPM bit by my fingers. Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over top of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher sticks and distance became paramount. That's an oddball one. I would have figured the weight of the router would have caused the whole shebang to drop, not rise. I could see a loose collet causing the bit to rise. Either way, it's like Sancho Panza said, "Whether the rock hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the rock, it's bad for the pitcher." R |
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"Morgans" wrote in
: You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times. For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases. Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above. So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard slows them down or prevents accurate cutting. I think a lot of the problem is home table saw guards aren't good enough. The first table saw I had was a Craftsman entry-level saw, and the guard did not align with the saw blade at all. My current saw is a Ridgid, and the guard takes a few minutes to adjust to be behind the blade exactly, and has to be removed to allow trimming 1/8"-1/4" off one side to get a decent edge. There's better mounting mechanisms (behind the blade on the blade height riser [riving knife style]) and new guard designs to allow trimming cuts (each side of the guard moves independently) but I haven't used either of them yet to say if they're really better. Puckdropper -- Never teach your apprentice everything you know. |
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On Aug 7, 9:31*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college. 2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a rest than either the General or Unisaw. That is what got me about 10 years ago and it wasn't a PM66. If was an old Craftsman contractor's saw that I used to own. Shut the switch of and started to walk away with a handful of small spaces I had just cut off. I looked over my shoulder and noticed one on the table next to be blade. In a brain-dead moment I over-reached the blade and got nicked, to the bone, on a fingertip. Even the clunky old Craftsman was still spinning down. Stupid but it sure taught a lesson. RonB |
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On Aug 8, 11:36*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 8, 8:09*am, "HeyBub" wrote: Lobby Dosser wrote: None of these saws have blade guards? Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new saw. Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for the company's benefit, not the consumers'. These are not mutually exclusive. *The problem is that safety equipment and ease of operation do seem to be mutually exclusive - except for the SawStop. *Then it's safety and affordability are mutually exclusive. *For now. It's the same as seatbelts in a car. *As a kid I used to bitch and moan when my Mom would insist I put on the seatbelt. *Then it became a habit and I didn't even think about it. *I'd be dead twice or thrice over if it weren't for seatbelts R Watch what happens if the SawStop technology is forced on high school and smaller tech schools. Our high school just dropped the woodworking program because the lawyer told them to add SawStop technology or close the program. They had finally upgraded to a couple of new Powermatics after nearly 30 years with now worn out Unisaws. Couldn't afford to upgrade again so they sold the shop off. RonB |
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On Aug 8, 3:43*pm, RonB wrote:
Watch what happens if the SawStop technology is forced on high school and smaller tech schools. *Our high school just dropped the woodworking program because the lawyer told them to add SawStop technology or close the program. *They had finally upgraded to a couple of new Powermatics after nearly 30 years with now worn out Unisaws. *Couldn't afford to upgrade again so they sold the shop off. SawStop is a game changer, no doubt about that. Losing high school shop programs is totally unacceptable. My HS sucked - we didn't have any shop programs at all. I used to drool over the things my older brother would bring back from shop class at his high school. I wonder sometimes how different my life would be if there had been a wood shop. Maybe nothing would have changed, I don't know. Maybe I would just have had better training and several more years of experience. R |
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"Josepi" wrote After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came right up through the top (backside) of the piece. Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over top of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher sticks and distance became paramount. Yep, I have had the router bit getting loose, too. No scary moments, though. I always teach that just like a gun not being ponted at anyone, to body parts above spinny cutty things, ever. -- Jim in NC |
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"J. Clarke" wrote Most of the cuts I've done in the past month have used a sled of some kind--for that the guard provided with my saw is not workable--while in some cases the sled will slide under it various pieces raise the guard so high that it might as well not be there. No problem. Put a guard on the sled. With tools and bits and pieces around, it takes about 30 seconds. Have a tall fence on the sled, front and back, with a piece of plexi drilled and screwed onto the sled fence, front and back. The plexi is only wide enoug to cover past where you would never put your fingers, anyway, so it does not impeed use, at al. Have some blocks around of different height, for different thickness workpieces. Too wide for your sled to have a block on each side? Put both blocks on one side, and let the plexi cantilever over the cutting area. My point is, if you _ _have_ _ to have a guard on your saw, you _will_ be creative and think of a way to get the job done, as you want to do it, and still be safe. -- Jim in NC |
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On 8/8/2010 4:35 PM, Morgans wrote:
"J. wrote Most of the cuts I've done in the past month have used a sled of some kind--for that the guard provided with my saw is not workable--while in some cases the sled will slide under it various pieces raise the guard so high that it might as well not be there. No problem. Put a guard on the sled. With tools and bits and pieces around, it takes about 30 seconds. If it was just a sled that would be fine, but the sled holds various jigs and fixtures and the trick is fitting the guard so that they all still work properly. Have a tall fence on the sled, front and back, with a piece of plexi drilled and screwed onto the sled fence, front and back. The plexi is only wide enoug to cover past where you would never put your fingers, anyway, so it does not impeed use, at al. Have some blocks around of different height, for different thickness workpieces. Too wide for your sled to have a block on each side? Put both blocks on one side, and let the plexi cantilever over the cutting area. My point is, if you _ _have_ _ to have a guard on your saw, you _will_ be creative and think of a way to get the job done, as you want to do it, and still be safe. Yep. But it's not going to be trivial for this particular case. |
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On 8/8/2010 3:10 PM, Josepi wrote:
Years ago I was attempting to create a CD rack (bored) using an old 3/4" piece of oak. I was going to dado some exact width slots in it for the CD's to stand up and tilt in, using a table mounted router. After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came right up through the top (backside) of the piece. The router depth locking screw came loose (or I forgot to tighten it) and the vibration from the table made the router gear rack screw itself right up through the 3/4" depth of the wood instead on holding a 3/8" depth slot. I never figured that was possible until I was staring at the 30K RPM bit by my fingers. Upcut spiral? If so that's common. When I use one of those I clean the collet and the bit _every_ time using a .50 caliber bore brush, a .50 caliber jag and patches, and lacquer thinner as solvent. So far haven't had one come out since I started doing that. Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over top of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher sticks and distance became paramount. Yeah, I was fortunate enough to not get bitten by it. To paraphrase Melville, I will not have a man in my shop who is not afraid of a router. wrote in message ... You know, I used to be about like anyone else, in that I never used a guard on a table saw. That all changed 18 years ago, when I took a job teaching carpentry at the local high school. It was made very clear to me that any and all safety devices available were to be used, at all times. For the first year or so I fussed under my breath, any time I had to run the table saw with the guard in place. Slowly, I began to realize that they really were not all that bad, in nearly all cases. Now, I seldom think a second thought about the guards. The obvious exception is when using a tenion jig, or dado blade or other or other cuts that do not go all the way through the workpiece. Even then, there are guards available for the second class of cuts mentioned above. So really, if everyone just made up their mind to keep with a guard until they got used to it, you would find that it is a rare case where the guard slows them down or prevents accurate cutting. |
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On Aug 8, 3:25*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 8, 3:43*pm, RonB wrote: Watch what happens if the SawStop technology is forced on high school and smaller tech schools. *Our high school just dropped the woodworking program because the lawyer told them to add SawStop technology or close the program. *They had finally upgraded to a couple of new Powermatics after nearly 30 years with now worn out Unisaws. *Couldn't afford to upgrade again so they sold the shop off. SawStop is a game changer, no doubt about that. *Losing high school shop programs is totally unacceptable. *My HS sucked - we didn't have Agree - As the original poster noted most good schools press safety. We will have more folks starting off with little if any training. Ron |
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"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college. As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety. They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw and PM66. Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents. Analyzing these accidents revealed the following: 1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66. 2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a rest than either the General or Unisaw. WOW! That is an exceptionally long time. I wonder if it is because of the type belt that is used, not the typical v-belt rather the less resistant serpentine belts. Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade was still spinning. That may be more to do with lighting. I recall 40 years ago my shop teacher warning to be careful around the blade during spin down as it went and out of phase with the floresent lighting. Basically working like an automotive timing light. It did indeed appear to be paused a few times when shud town. As it would slow to near in phase timing the blade would appear to go backwards, stop, spin forward, etc. If the blade takes an exceptionally long time to come to a stop the "in phase" periods with the lighting would last longer. |
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"HeyBub" wrote in message m... Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws. Sawstop |
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"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "HeyBub" wrote Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws. They have. Toss a dirty sock into the blade and it stops faster than a washing machine. Dont count on it. I experimented with this several years ago using a canvas/leather work glove. The blade left a clean kerf. There was the notion that if you used gloves with a TS the blade could catch the glove and pull your hand in. I do not recoment using a glove BTY but cloth and leather cut much more easily than wood. |
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"RicodJour" wrote in message ... On Aug 8, 3:10 pm, "Josepi" wrote: Years ago I was attempting to create a CD rack (bored) using an old 3/4" piece of oak. I was going to dado some exact width slots in it for the CD's to stand up and tilt in, using a table mounted router. After about the third or fourth dado slot I found the router bit came right up through the top (backside) of the piece. The router depth locking screw came loose (or I forgot to tighten it) and the vibration from the table made the router gear rack screw itself right up through the 3/4" depth of the wood instead on holding a 3/8" depth slot. I never figured that was possible until I was staring at the 30K RPM bit by my fingers. Wasted piece of wood (made it shorter) but the lesson was a good one learned. Nobody got hurt but I never (If I ever did?) put my hands over top of the router bit, anymore, no matter how thick the piece is. Pusher sticks and distance became paramount. That's an oddball one. I would have figured the weight of the router would have caused the whole shebang to drop, not rise. I could see a loose collet causing the bit to rise. Either way, it's like Sancho Panza said, "Whether the rock hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the rock, it's bad for the pitcher." It was very common with Craftsman routers for the bit to raise up but it was the bit slipping out of the collet rather than the motor defying gravity. |
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"RonB" wrote
Agree - As the original poster noted most good schools press safety. We will have more folks starting off with little if any training. Ron With less emphasis on safety. Shame Max |
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Leon wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message m... Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws. Sawstop Nah - don't need sawstop for this need Leon. A simple brake is all that is necessary. With all of the chop saws that come with brakes today, it really should be no big deal for a table saw to have the same capability - it's been around forever. -- -Mike- |
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The only problem I have with all these safety devices is that, in my experience with the Fire Department, they do tend to have unintended consequences; that being that people tend to be less concious of safety. The government can only do so much to require things to be foolproof. There really is no such thing. My wife's car tells the driver when the lights are left on, to fasten a seat belt, if a door is ajar, if the trunk lid or hood is open, if the fuel level is low, and probably several other things that I've not yet had the occasion to experience. And I'm not even going to tell you about the GPS!! It's enough to give me an inferiority complex. Max |
T/S Inertia
Only takes a simple SPST switch in the power switch and a resistor to absorb
the energy and help stop the switch contacts from burning out so fast. Syncro motors genertae enough induced EMF to make the stop suprisingly, quite dramatically. Many chop saws attempt to do this without the energy absorption ballast resistor and the switch burns out in a few months. "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... Nah - don't need sawstop for this need Leon. A simple brake is all that is necessary. With all of the chop saws that come with brakes today, it really should be no big deal for a table saw to have the same capability - it's been around forever. -- -Mike- Leon wrote: "HeyBub" wrote in message m... Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws. Sawstop |
T/S Inertia
In article ,
Mike Marlow wrote: ...snipped... Nah - don't need sawstop for this need Leon. A simple brake is all that is necessary. With all of the chop saws that come with brakes today, it really should be no big deal for a table saw to have the same capability - it's been around forever. -- I agree with that: I've seen brake setups on industrial machinery powered by 150 HP motors, geared down to about 30 RPM turning a roller that weighed a few tons, that could stop the roller in less than a 1/4 turn. I don't see why any sacrificial parts are necessary for a saw to do what the sawstop does. If Delta, Jet, etc. wanted to spend a little R&D money, they could build a safer saw that was _better_ than sawstop. -- Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org |
T/S Inertia
"RicodJour" wrote in message ... On Aug 8, 8:09 am, "HeyBub" wrote: Lobby Dosser wrote: None of these saws have blade guards? Sure. All new saws come with blade guards and the guards receive about as much attention as the sixteen-page safety manuals that also accompany a new saw. Like the safety manuals, the blade guards are included with a new saw for the company's benefit, not the consumers'. These are not mutually exclusive. The problem is that safety equipment and ease of operation do seem to be mutually exclusive - except for the SawStop. Then it's safety and affordability are mutually exclusive. For now. It's the same as seatbelts in a car. As a kid I used to bitch and moan when my Mom would insist I put on the seatbelt. Then it became a habit and I didn't even think about it. I'd be dead twice or thrice over if it weren't for seatbelts You must be a young guy. When I was a kid, they didn't have seat belts. |
T/S Inertia
On Aug 7, 11:22*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote: On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:31:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: I have been taking a basic wood working at a local community college. As you would expect, there is a heavy emphasis on safety. They have a collection of table saws including General, Delta Unisaw and PM66. Over the years there have been a few T/S accidents. Analyzing these accidents revealed the following: 1) The majority of accidents involved the PM66. 2) After shutting off, the PM66 required 20-30 seconds more to come to a rest than either the General or Unisaw. Looking at the saw blade, it was very difficult to see if the blade was still spinning. The only time I've ever come close to getting bitten by my Unisaw was exactly this. *A blade brake would be a great addition to any table saw. Some years ago, the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, and all the while thinking of the children, mandated that washing machines come to a complete stop in just a few seconds (like three). It shouldn't be hard to transfer that technology to table saws.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Electric brake -- short out the supply wires after cutting the power, and the motor forces itself to stop. |
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