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#41
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throatplates for a table saw?
On 8/10/10 11:10 AM, Kevin wrote:
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 08:47:58 -0500, wrote: If you are needing downward pressure on a jig or stock, enough to bend a 1/2" MDF ZCI, there is either something very wrong with your saw or you are doing something very wrong. Okay I dare you or anyone else that's said I'm doing something unsafe to cut a piece of 1/2" MDF that is 14" long and 2.5" wide (The width of my insert on the right side of the blade), support it at the ends and then try to flex it with ONE FINGER. Then try the same thing with 1/2" Baltic Birch ply. You can use your whole hand this time. Then come back here and tell me I'm doing something wrong by using the one that doesn't flex. -Kevin I didn't say you were doing anything wrong by using the one that didn't flex, but nice attempt at trying to change the subject without anyone noticing. :-p What we're saying is that any operation (and specifically your tenoning technique) which causes you to push the stock downward to the table and subsequently, the blade, is not only bad woodworking technique, but very dangerous technique. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#42
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throat plates for a table saw?
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#43
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throat plates for a table saw?
On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:44:38 -0500, "
wrote: You really found that 1/2" flexed too much? How wide is your throat - or how long? I can't imagine a throat that is so big that 1/2" would flex.... but I'be been wrong before... once... I think it's about 15". Probably about a foot span from the support ledges. Doesn't take much to flex 1/2" MDF over that and as far as I'm concerned when it comes to the TS that insert ought not to budge if I put any reasonable force on it, because when the sh*t hits the fan why throw one more variable into the equation? 15" wide throat? That's the size of the table on most saws! What sort of saw do you have? It's 14", ends are semi-circular. It's a Ridgid contractor saw, nothing special. |
#44
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throat plates for a table saw?
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:17:46 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote: On 8/10/10 11:10 AM, Kevin wrote: On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 08:47:58 -0500, wrote: If you are needing downward pressure on a jig or stock, enough to bend a 1/2" MDF ZCI, there is either something very wrong with your saw or you are doing something very wrong. Okay I dare you or anyone else that's said I'm doing something unsafe to cut a piece of 1/2" MDF that is 14" long and 2.5" wide (The width of my insert on the right side of the blade), support it at the ends and then try to flex it with ONE FINGER. Then try the same thing with 1/2" Baltic Birch ply. You can use your whole hand this time. Then come back here and tell me I'm doing something wrong by using the one that doesn't flex. -Kevin I didn't say you were doing anything wrong by using the one that didn't flex, but nice attempt at trying to change the subject without anyone noticing. :-p I'm staying focused on the original point, that 1/2" MDF is a little flimsy for this application, rather than the example I used where it became evident to me that was the case. You may find yourself in a different situation where it comes into play. How much do you save using MDF instead of baltic birch ply? 10 cents? The OEM insert is steel and they ribbed the hell out of it. They could have made it out of plastic and saved some money, and you know that'd make the accountants happy. But they didn't. For some reason they thought it was important that it be very rigid and I've never seen a saw that came with one that wasn't. What we're saying is that any operation (and specifically your tenoning technique) which causes you to push the stock downward to the table and subsequently, the blade, is not only bad woodworking technique, but very dangerous technique. I happen to have shot some video of a project and I have me in action using the jig. So here is a still frame of the horrible accident waiting to happen. Please cover the eyes of any small children or shop dogs so they don't have to live with the shock. http://www.krtwood.com/tenonjig.jpg Does it look like I'm pushing down hard? Cause I'm not. But if that had been an MDF insert the cut depths would have been inconsistent. Some amount of down pressure is a normal part of most operations at the table saw, you just don't think about it. Don't try running some 1/8" plywood through the saw without pushing down on it. It'll bounce like crazy and then almost certainly kick back. Whatever force you apply is NOTHING compared to the force the blade can generate into the table. It's just common sense to make the insert as rigid as you can practically make it. MDF is a poor choice. -Kevin |
#45
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throat plates for a table saw?
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:47:07 -0400, Kevin wrote:
On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:44:38 -0500, " wrote: You really found that 1/2" flexed too much? How wide is your throat - or how long? I can't imagine a throat that is so big that 1/2" would flex.... but I'be been wrong before... once... I think it's about 15". Probably about a foot span from the support ledges. Doesn't take much to flex 1/2" MDF over that and as far as I'm concerned when it comes to the TS that insert ought not to budge if I put any reasonable force on it, because when the sh*t hits the fan why throw one more variable into the equation? 15" wide throat? That's the size of the table on most saws! What sort of saw do you have? It's 14", ends are semi-circular. It's a Ridgid contractor saw, nothing special. 14" front to back? ...or side to side? What's the smallest dimension? |
#46
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throat plates for a table saw?
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:01:13 -0500, "
wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:47:07 -0400, Kevin wrote: On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:44:38 -0500, " wrote: You really found that 1/2" flexed too much? How wide is your throat - or how long? I can't imagine a throat that is so big that 1/2" would flex.... but I'be been wrong before... once... I think it's about 15". Probably about a foot span from the support ledges. Doesn't take much to flex 1/2" MDF over that and as far as I'm concerned when it comes to the TS that insert ought not to budge if I put any reasonable force on it, because when the sh*t hits the fan why throw one more variable into the equation? 15" wide throat? That's the size of the table on most saws! What sort of saw do you have? It's 14", ends are semi-circular. It's a Ridgid contractor saw, nothing special. 14" front to back? ...or side to side? What's the smallest dimension? Front to back. Side to side is more like 4" but there are no supports on the sides, only at the front and back. -Kevin |
#47
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throatplates for a table saw?
Kevin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:01:13 -0500, " wrote: 14" front to back? ...or side to side? What's the smallest dimension? Front to back. Side to side is more like 4" but there are no supports on the sides, only at the front and back. -Kevin If it the typical Ridgid table saw insert the supports are on the sides about 3" from the front and the back leaving about 8.5" between the leveling screws. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
#48
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throat plates for a table saw?
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:23:54 -0400, Kevin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:01:13 -0500, " wrote: On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:47:07 -0400, Kevin wrote: On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:44:38 -0500, " wrote: You really found that 1/2" flexed too much? How wide is your throat - or how long? I can't imagine a throat that is so big that 1/2" would flex.... but I'be been wrong before... once... I think it's about 15". Probably about a foot span from the support ledges. Doesn't take much to flex 1/2" MDF over that and as far as I'm concerned when it comes to the TS that insert ought not to budge if I put any reasonable force on it, because when the sh*t hits the fan why throw one more variable into the equation? 15" wide throat? That's the size of the table on most saws! What sort of saw do you have? It's 14", ends are semi-circular. It's a Ridgid contractor saw, nothing special. 14" front to back? ...or side to side? What's the smallest dimension? Front to back. Side to side is more like 4" but there are no supports on the sides, only at the front and back. Ah, this is making a lot more sense now. When you were asked how _wide_ the throat was and replied 15" it threw me off completely. I was imagining a man-hole sized plate. ;-) Thanks. |
#49
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Can laminated hardboard be used to make zero clearance throatplates for a table saw?
Kevin wrote:
I happen to have shot some video of a project and I have me in action using the jig. So here is a still frame of the horrible accident waiting to happen. Please cover the eyes of any small children or shop dogs so they don't have to live with the shock. http://www.krtwood.com/tenonjig.jpg Looks fine to me. You might consider gluing some sandpaper to your jig so your work won't easily slide. Also, either a toggle clamp or those handy spring clamps will be fast and effective. -- Jack Got Change: Global Warming ====== Global Fraud! http://jbstein.com Does it look like I'm pushing down hard? Cause I'm not. But if that had been an MDF insert the cut depths would have been inconsistent. Some amount of down pressure is a normal part of most operations at the table saw, you just don't think about it. Don't try running some 1/8" plywood through the saw without pushing down on it. It'll bounce like crazy and then almost certainly kick back. Whatever force you apply is NOTHING compared to the force the blade can generate into the table. It's just common sense to make the insert as rigid as you can practically make it. MDF is a poor choice. -Kevin |
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