I need to quickly put together an order for about $10K or so of basic
woodworking and metalworking machinery and smaller stuff, for a
Community Workshop starting at a University.

I know of goodold Harbor Freight, and Grizzly.. from Home in Vermont.
But is there another solid but not-too-much-more expensive supplier
that you would recommend??

I need a single supplier because of the paperwork jungle (I'm in the
Middle East)...

And, if anyone has a list for starting up a small but decent shop, I'd
appreciate if you'd send/share it..

I hate these Fire Drills, but I want people (and me) to have some
decent tools to use next (school) year. And I just got asked to make
a list, which is a lot better than some guys in Purchasing winging
it....

Your opinions would be appreciated!

Regards, Terry King ..On the Red Sea at KAUST.edu.sa

Newsletter: http://redseanews.info Community Information: http://kcomm.info

On 4/26/2010 8:47 AM, wrote:

I need to quickly put together an order for about $10K or so of basic
woodworking and metalworking machinery and smaller stuff, for a
Community Workshop starting at a University.

Tell us a little about the "Community" that'll be using the workshop.
Will it be a hobby shop, or will it also be used as a model shop or
maintenance shop for university infrastructure maintenance?

More information will get you better quality answers...

I know of goodold Harbor Freight, and Grizzly.. from Home in Vermont.
But is there another solid but not-too-much-more expensive supplier
that you would recommend??

I'll suggest Lee Valley Tools for "smaller stuff" in the woodworking
catagory.

I need a single supplier because of the paperwork jungle (I'm in the
Middle East)...

Jim Smith at the American Embassy may be able to help with that tangle -
it's worth a quick e-mail to set up a phone conversation...

....and if you need a consolidation point in the US, I may be able to
help with that.

And, if anyone has a list for starting up a small but decent shop, I'd
appreciate if you'd send/share it...

More info please!

I hate these Fire Drills, but I want people (and me) to have some
decent tools to use next (school) year. And I just got asked to make
a list, which is a lot better than some guys in Purchasing winging
it...

Your opinions would be appreciated!

Make haste with due deliberation.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

I Googled "terryking.us" and found quite a bit. "About KAUST",
meaning King Abdullah University of Science and Technology, in Jeddah,
Saudi Arabia. I am puzzled as to why the King can't afford a top-
notch shop, rather than looking for bargains for machinery.

Sonny

On 4/26/2010 12:35 PM, Sonny wrote:
I Googled "terryking.us" and found quite a bit. "About KAUST",
meaning King Abdullah University of Science and Technology, in Jeddah,
Saudi Arabia. I am puzzled as to why the King can't afford a top-
notch shop, rather than looking for bargains for machinery.

The KSA can afford a great deal, but universities everywhere operate on
budgets and departments compete (vigorously) for resources. The name of
the game is to stretch whatever budget you have just as far as you can.

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
On 4/26/2010 12:35 PM, Sonny wrote:
I Googled "terryking.us" and found quite a bit. "About KAUST",
meaning King Abdullah University of Science and Technology, in Jeddah,
Saudi Arabia. I am puzzled as to why the King can't afford a top-
notch shop, rather than looking for bargains for machinery.

The KSA can afford a great deal, but universities everywhere operate on
budgets and departments compete (vigorously) for resources. The name of
the game is to stretch whatever budget you have just as far as you can.

The expensive part will be growing the trees...



Something to think about: If someone wishes to encourage students, then
I think they should provide them with tools that are a pleasure to use.

compete (vigorously) for resources

Mr. Terry has the right idea about stretching his budget, when asking
for a source for tools, i.e., help with furnishing the particular
program. Like many institutions or programs, it is not uncommon to
ask, face to face, some industry or alumni for help, in the form of
contributions, discounts, etc. Why not go to the top and ask for
help? Request an audience with the King, himself, present a list of
needs and ask for his direct help. Just find out what the correct
procedure is for having a direct audience with the King. 10K
shouldn't be a problem for him.

Better, still, go to each of the Princes, also, and get 10K from each
of them. They would be making points with the King for supporting his
namesake program. Isn't that how politics work? :-)

Sonny

In article ,
Morris Dovey wrote:
On 4/26/2010 12:35 PM, Sonny wrote:
I Googled "terryking.us" and found quite a bit. "About KAUST",
meaning King Abdullah University of Science and Technology, in Jeddah,
Saudi Arabia. I am puzzled as to why the King can't afford a top-
notch shop, rather than looking for bargains for machinery.

The KSA can afford a great deal, but universities everywhere operate on
budgets and departments compete (vigorously) for resources. The name of
the game is to stretch whatever budget you have just as far as you can.

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

On 4/26/2010 3:54 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

Yeah, well, I'm frond of good puns - but that's just the pits. :-b

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Apr 26, 4:54*pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In article ,
Morris Dovey wrote:

On 4/26/2010 12:35 PM, Sonny wrote:
I Googled "terryking.us" and found quite a bit. *"About KAUST",
meaning King Abdullah University of Science and Technology, in Jeddah,
Saudi Arabia. *I am puzzled as to why the King can't afford a top-
notch shop, rather than looking for bargains for machinery.

The KSA can afford a great deal, but universities everywhere operate on
budgets and departments compete (vigorously) for resources. The name of
the game is to stretch whatever budget you have just as far as you can.

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

That's just a figment of their imagination. Unless they're talking
about stains, then it's a pigment of their imagination.

" wrote in
:

I need to quickly put together an order for about $10K or so of basic
woodworking and metalworking machinery and smaller stuff, for a
Community Workshop starting at a University.

I know of goodold Harbor Freight, and Grizzly.. from Home in Vermont.
But is there another solid but not-too-much-more expensive supplier
that you would recommend??

I need a single supplier because of the paperwork jungle (I'm in the
Middle East)...


*snip*


Your opinions would be appreciated!

Regards, Terry King ..On the Red Sea at KAUST.edu.sa

Newsletter: http://redseanews.info Community Information:
http://kcomm.info


Have you looked at the borgs? Their websites carry much more than they
do in store, and you can get some decent tools from those places. Home
Depot and Lowes are the big ones around here. (Menards doesn't do much
selling from their website.)

A place like Amazon or similar would also have a large selection of tools
to start building a shop from. Buy the toughest you can get, which might
not be the best in each category. Fussy tools have little use in a
shared shop.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On 4/26/2010 4:26 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 26, 4:54 pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In ,
Morris wrote:

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

That's just a figment of their imagination. Unless they're talking
about stains, then it's a pigment of their imagination.

Well, what do you eggs benedict us to do now?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Apr 26, 6:35*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 4/26/2010 4:26 PM, Robatoy wrote:

On Apr 26, 4:54 pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In ,
Morris *wrote:
The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

That's just a figment of their imagination. Unless they're talking
about stains, then it's a pigment of their imagination.

Well, what do you eggs benedict us to do now?

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

You a Cockney now? LOL

" wrote in
:

I need to quickly put together an order for about $10K or so of basic
woodworking and metalworking machinery and smaller stuff, for a
Community Workshop starting at a University.

I know of goodold Harbor Freight, and Grizzly.. from Home in Vermont.
But is there another solid but not-too-much-more expensive supplier
that you would recommend??

I need a single supplier because of the paperwork jungle (I'm in the
Middle East)...

And, if anyone has a list for starting up a small but decent shop, I'd
appreciate if you'd send/share it..

I hate these Fire Drills, but I want people (and me) to have some
decent tools to use next (school) year. And I just got asked to make
a list, which is a lot better than some guys in Purchasing winging
it....

Your opinions would be appreciated!

Regards, Terry King ..On the Red Sea at KAUST.edu.sa

Newsletter: http://redseanews.info Community Information:
http://kcomm.info

I'd recommend Enco as a possibility.

Their website is http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM

and the title of the page is:

Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies

They have a great catalog you can request, too.

Also, they are (now) owned by MSC Industrial, which has an absolutely HUGE
catalog.
Try http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm

Good luck! And have fun shopping - I always do.

Doug

In article ,
Swingman wrote:
On 4/26/2010 4:26 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 26, 4:54 pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In ,
Morris wrote:

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

That's just a figment of their imagination.

Rumor has it that they're considering adding a self-pruning variety.

Unless they're talking
about stains, then it's a pigment of their imagination.

Well, what do you eggs benedict us to do now?

Shell, that's no pun. it's not even a good yolk.

That aside, to ensure it comes out properly, it is neccessary to use
_chrome-plated_ kitchenware when preparing that concotion.






As all good cooks know, it's "Chrome for the Hollandaise".

On Apr 26, 9:23*pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In article ,

Swingman wrote:
On 4/26/2010 4:26 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 26, 4:54 pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In ,
Morris *wrote:

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

That's just a figment of their imagination.

Rumor has it that they're considering adding a self-pruning variety.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Unless they're talking
about stains, then it's a pigment of their imagination.

Well, what do you eggs benedict us to do now?

Shell, that's no pun. *it's not even a good yolk.

That aside, to ensure it comes out properly, it is neccessary to use
_chrome-plated_ kitchenware when preparing that concotion.

As all good cooks know, it's "Chrome for the Hollandaise".

O U C H !

Hello Terry,

Given your location you may want to look at some of the European
manufactures. If you buy all from one they may give discounts.

Some of the basic wood working items I can think to get:
Dust collector
Planer bigger than 12"
jointer bigger than 8"
joiner (for biscuits)
sander (the wider, larger type)
belt sander
palm sander
table saw bigger than 10"
Radial Arm Saw
band saw bigger than 14"
lathe longer than 30"
router
shaper
paint booth
good lighting
mortiser

Mike in Ohio

wrote:
I need to quickly put together an order for about $10K or so of basic
woodworking and metalworking machinery and smaller stuff, for a
Community Workshop starting at a University.

I know of goodold Harbor Freight, and Grizzly.. from Home in Vermont.
But is there another solid but not-too-much-more expensive supplier
that you would recommend??

I need a single supplier because of the paperwork jungle (I'm in the
Middle East)...

And, if anyone has a list for starting up a small but decent shop, I'd
appreciate if you'd send/share it..

I hate these Fire Drills, but I want people (and me) to have some
decent tools to use next (school) year. And I just got asked to make
a list, which is a lot better than some guys in Purchasing winging
it....

Your opinions would be appreciated!

Regards, Terry King ..On the Red Sea at KAUST.edu.sa

Newsletter: http://redseanews.info Community Information: http://kcomm.info

On 4/26/2010 8:23 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 4/26/2010 4:26 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 26, 4:54 pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In ,
Morris wrote:

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

That's just a figment of their imagination.

Rumor has it that they're considering adding a self-pruning variety.

Unless they're talking
about stains, then it's a pigment of their imagination.

Well, what do you eggs benedict us to do now?

Shell, that's no pun. it's not even a good yolk.

That aside, to ensure it comes out properly, it is neccessary to use
_chrome-plated_ kitchenware when preparing that concotion.


As all good cooks know, it's "Chrome for the Hollandaise".

Well, you treated me so ungrapefruitly ...


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 4/26/2010 8:23 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 4/26/2010 4:26 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 26, 4:54 pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In ,
Morris wrote:

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

That's just a figment of their imagination.

Rumor has it that they're considering adding a self-pruning variety.

Unless they're talking
about stains, then it's a pigment of their imagination.

Well, what do you eggs benedict us to do now?

Shell, that's no pun. it's not even a good yolk.

That aside, to ensure it comes out properly, it is neccessary to use
_chrome-plated_ kitchenware when preparing that concotion.


As all good cooks know, it's "Chrome for the Hollandaise".

Well, you treated me so ungrapefruitly ...


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Orange you ashamed you said that.

Max

On 4/26/2010 9:22 PM, Max wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 4/26/2010 8:23 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 4/26/2010 4:26 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Apr 26, 4:54 pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
In ,
Morris wrote:

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

That's just a figment of their imagination.

Rumor has it that they're considering adding a self-pruning variety.

Unless they're talking
about stains, then it's a pigment of their imagination.

Well, what do you eggs benedict us to do now?

Shell, that's no pun. it's not even a good yolk.

That aside, to ensure it comes out properly, it is neccessary to use
_chrome-plated_ kitchenware when preparing that concotion.


As all good cooks know, it's "Chrome for the Hollandaise".

Well, you treated me so ungrapefruitly ...


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Orange you ashamed you said that.

Yeah, but you left such a waffle toast in my mouth ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:19:59 -0500, the infamous Morris Dovey
scrawled the following:

On 4/26/2010 3:54 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:

Well, I understand they've set a _date_ to start.

Yeah, well, I'm frond of good puns - but that's just the pits. :-b

I hope nobody palms the fruits of their cash-raising labors.

--
....in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should
not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

Guys, Guys... Thanks a lot! And not only for the puns, which my Dad
who is 97 is still outputting regularly :-)

OK, couple of things:

Yes, the King is rich. One of the things he has done is to start this
University totally from scratch, with a $10 Billion endowment.. so a
lot has gone into building a large town, every building,
desalinization plant so we have water. Etc. Etc. Your oil dollars at
work. It is the first school in this country where men and women can
study in the same class. For that there is a Fatwa on our heads for
"Mingling of the Sexes" Don't get me started. It's a real attempt to
move beyond the past.

I'm not at that level. My wife has a job here as Librarian at the
KAUST School for kids K-12, children of Professors, staff, Grad
students. I'm a 'retired' Engineer, Photographer, I've built stuff
like barns and powerboats. There is some budget for Community Groups
like Art, Photography, Cycling, um.. Gardening, whatever. I am trying
to get some TOOLS together for the Art/Ceramics/Metalworking/
Woodworking group.

And, Thanks very much for some very good suggestions and perspectives.
That was what I was hoping for here.

OK: MSC looks good, but their prices are way higher for the same stuff
than Grizzly. Why? And I have bought stuff from Enco in the past,
metalworking stuff. Their prices are competitive.. I'll look at what
they have in Woodworking...

A few follow-ups:

(Mike in Ohio) - Thanks for the list; you reminded me of these which I
had forgotten:

sander (the wider, larger type)
belt sander
palm sander
Radial Arm Saw
shaper
paint booth
good lighting
mortiser

I am talking them into 'Furniture' as an important capability, which
brings in much of this stuff...

AND: "Given your location you may want to look at some of the European
manufacturers. "

Good Point: Does anyone have a link to a good supplier in Europe or
Great Britain?? Those areas are often suppliers into the Middle East.

I'm also trying to look into 'local' suppliers in the Jeddah area, but
I need someone who speaks both Woodwork and Arabic :-)

The expensive part will be growing the trees...
Yes, It's a little weird doing woodworking in the Desert. But the
'good' news is that there are several suppliers of hardwood here, from
Malaysia, Philippines, Borneo, Australia.
More than most large USA cities. Go figure. In Vermont where I'm from
the small local saw mill has very little good Maple. It's all going
right into a contract container to go to ... Japan. I'm not too
happy with Wood-Fired Politics. (But please, let's stay with Wood and
Puns, and skip the Lib-Redneck-Whatever discussion! !) If you're
curious about this place, have a look he
http://internationalschoolphotos.com...album/main.php

The Borgs. Good point. I will look into that. They are big and can
ship, I expect. Anyway this stuff will get shipped to Texas, where it
will go in a container with other stuff headed to the University.
Probably some drill bits too, Large Size, for holes over a mile deep.
Sigh..

This is all more than a little strange, but I feel there is a basic
sanity to using tools and making things yourself. And many of the
Engineering people here actually come from a Making Things at Home
background and want to do this stuff.

Thanks to all for your help, and I'll follow up on the ideas today...

Regards, Terry King ..On the Red Sea at KAUST.edu.sa

On 4/27/2010 2:44 AM, TerryKing wrote:
Guys, Guys... Thanks a lot! And not only for the puns, which my Dad
who is 97 is still outputting regularly :-)

OK, couple of things:

Yes, the King is rich. One of the things he has done is to start this
University totally from scratch, with a $10 Billion endowment.. so a
lot has gone into building a large town, every building,
desalinization plant so we have water. Etc. Etc. Your oil dollars at
work. It is the first school in this country where men and women can
study in the same class. For that there is a Fatwa on our heads for
"Mingling of the Sexes" Don't get me started. It's a real attempt to
move beyond the past.

I'm not at that level. My wife has a job here as Librarian at the
KAUST School for kids K-12, children of Professors, staff, Grad
students. I'm a 'retired' Engineer, Photographer, I've built stuff
like barns and powerboats. There is some budget for Community Groups
like Art, Photography, Cycling, um.. Gardening, whatever. I am trying
to get some TOOLS together for the Art/Ceramics/Metalworking/
Woodworking group.

And, Thanks very much for some very good suggestions and perspectives.
That was what I was hoping for here.

OK: MSC looks good, but their prices are way higher for the same stuff
than Grizzly. Why? And I have bought stuff from Enco in the past,
metalworking stuff. Their prices are competitive.. I'll look at what
they have in Woodworking...

A few follow-ups:

(Mike in Ohio) - Thanks for the list; you reminded me of these which I
had forgotten:

sander (the wider, larger type)
belt sander
palm sander
Radial Arm Saw
shaper
paint booth
good lighting
mortiser

I am talking them into 'Furniture' as an important capability, which
brings in much of this stuff...

AND: "Given your location you may want to look at some of the European
manufacturers. "

Good Point: Does anyone have a link to a good supplier in Europe or
Great Britain?? Those areas are often suppliers into the Middle East.

I'm also trying to look into 'local' suppliers in the Jeddah area, but
I need someone who speaks both Woodwork and Arabic :-)

The expensive part will be growing the trees...
Yes, It's a little weird doing woodworking in the Desert. But the
'good' news is that there are several suppliers of hardwood here, from
Malaysia, Philippines, Borneo, Australia.
More than most large USA cities. Go figure. In Vermont where I'm from
the small local saw mill has very little good Maple. It's all going
right into a contract container to go to ... Japan. I'm not too
happy with Wood-Fired Politics. (But please, let's stay with Wood and
Puns, and skip the Lib-Redneck-Whatever discussion! !) If you're
curious about this place, have a look he
http://internationalschoolphotos.com...album/main.php

The Borgs. Good point. I will look into that. They are big and can
ship, I expect. Anyway this stuff will get shipped to Texas, where it
will go in a container with other stuff headed to the University.
Probably some drill bits too, Large Size, for holes over a mile deep.
Sigh..

This is all more than a little strange, but I feel there is a basic
sanity to using tools and making things yourself. And many of the
Engineering people here actually come from a Making Things at Home
background and want to do this stuff.

Thanks to all for your help, and I'll follow up on the ideas today...

Dumb idea perhaps, but the oil companies do a tremendous business with
the Saudis--ever consider trying to tap them for a grant?

Many manufacturers have good educational discounts, the theory being
that getting their goods in the hands of students means that later those
students will give preference to products with which they are familiar.
Might be worth calling around. Also, if there's a lot of lumber
available in the area, somebody's buying it and using it, so, visit the
lumberyards, find out who's buying it, talk to them, see where they're
getting their tools and you may find a local source you didn't know about.

On 4/27/2010 1:44 AM, TerryKing wrote:

Yes, the King is rich. One of the things he has done is to start this
University totally from scratch, with a $10 Billion endowment.. so a
lot has gone into building a large town, every building,
desalinization plant so we have water. Etc. Etc. Your oil dollars at
work. It is the first school in this country where men and women can
study in the same class. For that there is a Fatwa on our heads for
"Mingling of the Sexes" Don't get me started. It's a real attempt to
move beyond the past.

I lived near the other coast (Abqaiq - about halfway between Hofuf and
Al Khobar) through the 1950's. Change is always difficult, and I've
watched Arabia make a thousand-year transition in less than a century.
When you stop to think about it, that's a breathtaking accomplishment;
and the change is ongoing...

I'm a 'retired' Engineer, Photographer, I've built stuff
like barns and powerboats. There is some budget for Community Groups
like Art, Photography, Cycling, um.. Gardening, whatever. I am trying
to get some TOOLS together for the Art/Ceramics/Metalworking/
Woodworking group.

I'll step out of line just enough to assert that your most useful and
powerful tool for all of the above will be the ability to communicate in
Arabic. It'll open doors to possibilities you might not even guess were
there - and it's deceptively easy to learn.

Every language embodies its own unique cultural "circuitry" for
problem-solving - and the addition of Arabic /will/ affect what you
produce and how you approach _any_ of the arts.

To Mike's list I think I'd add:

Air compressor
Spray equipment
1x42" belt sander w/ variety of wood- and metal-working belts
grinder and wheels
oscillating spindle sander

Some time back I shared drawings and photos with a CNC woodworker on
Bahrain who does (IMO) beautiful middle eastern geometric woodworking.
If you'd be interested in picking his brain for info about closer
wood/tool sources, let me know and I'll dig out contact info and provide
an introduction.

I'm also trying to look into 'local' suppliers in the Jeddah area, but
I need someone who speaks both Woodwork and Arabic :-)

As I said before...

The expensive part will be growing the trees...

Yes, It's a little weird doing woodworking in the Desert. But the
'good' news is that there are several suppliers of hardwood here, from
Malaysia, Philippines, Borneo, Australia.

I was joking, sort of. It's actually not as weird as you might guess, in
spite of the lack of forests. What one doesn't have, one can always
trade for...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/