I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. Many, many dead links.

A sad goodbye to Howard Ruttan who often posted great things.

So sad to not be able to connect with Ken Vaughn's pages. Really a
wealth of info now not available.

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

Bill

I've been wondering about Ken. He, like me, hasn't posted here for quite
awhile. I wonder if his site is just down or something more permanent has
happened...

"Bill Leonhardt" wrote in message
...
I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. Many, many dead links.

A sad goodbye to Howard Ruttan who often posted great things.

So sad to not be able to connect with Ken Vaughn's pages. Really a
wealth of info now not available.

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

Bill

In article
,
Bill Leonhardt wrote:

I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. Many, many dead links.

A sad goodbye to Howard Ruttan who often posted great things.

So sad to not be able to connect with Ken Vaughn's pages. Really a
wealth of info now not available.

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

Bill

You can always try the internet archive at archive.org. They might have
saved a usable copy.

On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?



I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.



--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.


Maybe we're talking about two different things. I have never been to the
site under discussion. But if I had investment myself in constructing a
site, I would like it to have as much permanence as possible--sort of like
planting a tree. I'm not talking about anything that has to do with
theft...I'm talking about preservation. Do you think people write books
mostly for the money (not in my field of expertise they don't...lol)?


--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On 4/8/2010 11:21 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.


Maybe we're talking about two different things. I have never been to the
site under discussion. But if I had investment myself in constructing a
site, I would like it to have as much permanence as possible--sort of like
planting a tree. I'm not talking about anything that has to do with
theft...I'm talking about preservation. Do you think people write books
mostly for the money (not in my field of expertise they don't...lol)?

It's fairly common practice for Youtubers to encourage others to copy
and repost their videos in order to prevent their permanent removal.

But Youtubers don't expect to profit by sales of their work.

Morris Dovey wrote in news:hpm4j5$hup$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?


If you can find the author or webmaster's e-mail address, you can ask
before downloading the site. If you can find it... Most webmasters have
removed their e-mail addresses due to the amount of spam, and don't check
the webmaster@ e-mail address (again, due to spam.)

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.


If you don't want it copied, then copyright it. If you don't want it copied
for Personal use, don't put it on a public web site.

On 4/8/2010 10:21 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.

Maybe we're talking about two different things. I have never been to the
site under discussion. But if I had investment myself in constructing a
site, I would like it to have as much permanence as possible--sort of like
planting a tree. I'm not talking about anything that has to do with
theft...I'm talking about preservation. Do you think people write books
mostly for the money (not in my field of expertise they don't...lol)?

I understand the desire to preserve that which one values...

....and I maintain that taking someone else's property without their
permission and without an exchange of value for value, is theft.

Under international law, the right to make copies of authored (drawn,
sculpted, photographed, composed, recorded,...) materials is the
property of the creator from the very instant of creation.

Opinions on an author's motivation have no relevance, and calling theft
"preservation" doesn't change its nature.

In my experience, fewer than one in a thousand of those who "value" work
sufficiently to want to "preserve" it, value it enough even to say
"Thank you for showing it to me."

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On 4/8/2010 11:49 PM, LDosser wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.

If you don't want it copied, then copyright it. If you don't want it
copied for Personal use, don't put it on a public web site.

If your neighbors have that same opinion, you probably shouldn't park on
a public street.

Under international law, the copyright exists from the instant of
creation - and it exists without regard to location of its object.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 10:21 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.

Maybe we're talking about two different things. I have never been to the
site under discussion. But if I had investment myself in constructing a
site, I would like it to have as much permanence as possible--sort of
like
planting a tree. I'm not talking about anything that has to do with
theft...I'm talking about preservation. Do you think people write books
mostly for the money (not in my field of expertise they don't...lol)?

I understand the desire to preserve that which one values...

...and I maintain that taking someone else's property without their
permission and without an exchange of value for value, is theft.

Under international law, the right to make copies of authored (drawn,
sculpted, photographed, composed, recorded,...) materials is the property
of the creator from the very instant of creation.

Opinions on an author's motivation have no relevance, and calling theft
"preservation" doesn't change its nature.

In my experience, fewer than one in a thousand of those who "value" work
sufficiently to want to "preserve" it, value it enough even to say "Thank
you for showing it to me."

I wasn't talking about those high-volume sexy sites. ; )
As an example, don't you think that the content of all of the "What is it?"
threads should be formally archived? Most of the folks at the sites
that I go to are pretty respectful folks.



--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On 4/9/2010 12:37 AM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 10:21 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.

Maybe we're talking about two different things. I have never been to the
site under discussion. But if I had investment myself in constructing a
site, I would like it to have as much permanence as possible--sort of
like
planting a tree. I'm not talking about anything that has to do with
theft...I'm talking about preservation. Do you think people write books
mostly for the money (not in my field of expertise they don't...lol)?

I understand the desire to preserve that which one values...

...and I maintain that taking someone else's property without their
permission and without an exchange of value for value, is theft.

Under international law, the right to make copies of authored (drawn,
sculpted, photographed, composed, recorded,...) materials is the property
of the creator from the very instant of creation.

Opinions on an author's motivation have no relevance, and calling theft
"preservation" doesn't change its nature.

In my experience, fewer than one in a thousand of those who "value" work
sufficiently to want to "preserve" it, value it enough even to say "Thank
you for showing it to me."

I wasn't talking about those high-volume sexy sites. ; )
As an example, don't you think that the content of all of the "What is it?"
threads should be formally archived? Most of the folks at the sites
that I go to are pretty respectful folks.

Theft strikes me as an especially poor way to show respect, regardless
of who's doing the stealing and who they're stealing from.

I don't normally see the "What is it?" threads - my filters are set up
to mark those posts as read (not killed, but read) because they're too
distracting for me. If you think they should be archived then you should
perhaps be corresponding with Rob - and discussing with /him/ how to
make doing so worth his time, effort, and server space (and/or offering
him /your/ time, effort, and server space) to set up and maintain that
archive.

I think most folks /are/ essentially honest and respectful of others -
and I don't have much use for those who aren't.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Bill Leonhardt" wrote

I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. Many, many dead links.

Although my site never quite died, I made it fade away for a while.

Folk who like to list useful links might like to know that I've recently
restored it, somewhat edited, to its former state.

Jeff

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

On 4/8/2010 11:05 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Morris wrote in news:hpm4j5$hup$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

If you can find the author or webmaster's e-mail address, you can ask
before downloading the site. If you can find it... Most webmasters have
removed their e-mail addresses due to the amount of spam, and don't check
the webmaster@ e-mail address (again, due to spam.)

That's true - if the author can't be asked for permission and permission
isn't explicitly granted on the web site, then there is no permission.

The spammers have worked hard to be a problem. Since I /want/ feedback,
I've implemented a solution that works for me - I've put an e-mail link
on (I think) every one of my web pages that provides a subject
appropriate to that page - and most of those subject lines contain some
keyword that expresses that e-mail past the server filters. Since the
spambots universally disregard the subject portion of the link, the
strategy has worked fairly well.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 11:49 PM, LDosser wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.

If you don't want it copied, then copyright it. If you don't want it
copied for Personal use, don't put it on a public web site.

If your neighbors have that same opinion, you probably shouldn't park on a
public street.

I lock my car. You?


Under international law, the copyright exists from the instant of
creation - and it exists without regard to location of its object.

If you put it on a web site open to the public, you have no protection from
Personal use. Zero.

Morris Dovey wrote:

I understand the desire to preserve that which one values...

...and I maintain that taking someone else's property without their
permission and without an exchange of value for value, is theft.

Under international law, the right to make copies of authored (drawn,
sculpted, photographed, composed, recorded,...) materials is the
property of the creator from the very instant of creation.

Generally, just accessing a web page makes a copy and places it on your
computer. Look in your cache and see just how much stuff is in there.
I doubt anyone would get in trouble for having stuff freely available on
the web on their computer. Selling it, using it publicly and so on
could cause trouble, but simply copying stuff for personal use goes on
just by accessing the page. If you don't want it copied, you probably
shouldn't put it on a publicly accessible web page.

--
Jack
Obama Ca Efficiency of the DMV, compassion of the IRS!
http://jbstein.com

Morris Dovey wrote:

It's theft, and it honors no one.

If you don't want it copied, then copyright it. If you don't want it
copied for Personal use, don't put it on a public web site.

If your neighbors have that same opinion, you probably shouldn't park on
a public street.

Under international law, the copyright exists from the instant of
creation - and it exists without regard to location of its object.

Are you thinking you broke "international" law when you quoted
(copied/edited) someone's writing in a rec post, or do you think there
is some sort of implied permission to copy this copyrighted material?

I know Google must have copied trillions of copyrighted messages. I
don't recall allowing them to copy any of my messages and putting them
up for all to see, making money from all the ads my stuff is
generating... How about that?

--
Jack
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have".
-- Thomas Jefferson
http://jbstein.com

Morris Dovey wrote:
On 4/9/2010 12:37 AM, Bill wrote:

As an example, don't you think that the content of all of the "What is
it?" threads should be formally archived?

Theft strikes me as an especially poor way to show respect, regardless
of who's doing the stealing and who they're stealing from.

I don't normally see the "What is it?" threads - my filters are set up
to mark those posts as read (not killed, but read) because they're too
distracting for me. If you think they should be archived then you should
perhaps be corresponding with Rob - and discussing with /him/ how to
make doing so worth his time, effort, and server space (and/or offering
him /your/ time, effort, and server space) to set up and maintain that
archive.

I think most folks /are/ essentially honest and respectful of others -
and I don't have much use for those who aren't.

So, Google is not your friend? I'm certain they are archiving all that
stuff, and this stuff, and all w/o permission, at least I don't recall
giving them permission, or you permission, to copy anything I write in
the Rec.

--
Jack
Conservatives believe every day is the Fourth of July, Liberals believe
every day is April 15.
http://jbstein.com

On 4/9/2010 3:54 AM, LDosser wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 11:49 PM, LDosser wrote:

If your neighbors have that same opinion, you probably shouldn't park
on a public street.

I lock my car. You?

I also lock my car, but locks only keep the honest folks out.

Under international law, the copyright exists from the instant of
creation - and it exists without regard to location of its object.

If you put it on a web site open to the public, you have no protection
from Personal use. Zero.

In my case at least, I /intend/ personal use. For other uses, my
protection comes after the fact and offers the advantage of being paid
for by the offender. For more info you can contact

McKee, Voorhees & Sease, PLC
801 Grand Ave, Suite 3200
Des Moines, IA 50309

They're worth every penny of their fees.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"LDosser" wrote in message
...
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 11:49 PM, LDosser wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.

If you don't want it copied, then copyright it. If you don't want it
copied for Personal use, don't put it on a public web site.

If your neighbors have that same opinion, you probably shouldn't park on
a public street.

I lock my car. You?

Lock it?

I don't even take the keys out.
When I get a new/different vehicle, I take the key off the ring
stick it in switch and that is where it stays, afterall someone might want
to use it.

I do unkey and lock my company vehicle if I'm away from home,
it's not mine and I don't need the grief of letting it get "borrowed".

basilisk

On 4/9/2010 8:43 AM, basilisk wrote:

I don't even take the keys out.
When I get a new/different vehicle, I take the key off the ring
stick it in switch and that is where it stays, afterall someone might want
to use it.

Ahhh, the benefits of boondock living ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/9/2010 12:49 AM, LDosser wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.


If you don't want it copied, then copyright it.

He does. So do you. By law in the United States, anything you write is
automatically copyrighted. Your kids' first scribblings are
copyrighted. No action is required. Some additional rights accrue if
you _register_ the copyright, however that is not necessary for a valid
copyright to exist. Everything you or I post to USENET is copyrighted
and if something you posted showed up in a bestseller sometime without
your prior permission being obtained you would probably be able to
collect damages.

On the other hand, quoting on USENET almost certainly falls under "fair
use", and unless somebody has profited significantly from unauthorized
use of your post the chance of obtaining damages sufficient to pay your
legal fees is pretty much zero.

If you don't want it
copied for Personal use, don't put it on a public web site.

Copying for "personal use" is in any case not necessarily precluded by
copyright, depending on what exactly you are copying and on the nature
of the "personal use"--it comes under "fair use" and "fair use" is a
minefield for both the holder of the copyright and the person making the
copy, because it's almost all case law and there's a lot of it, some of
which is probably contradictory.

On 4/9/2010 1:37 AM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 10:21 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 9:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"Morris wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 12:04 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

If it looks like it has value, steal it?

I think the sentiments were to keep things from becoming lost...as the
publisher would probably would have liked.

And so before the author has a chance to expire, you would steal his
work - just in case he made no provision for its continued publication?

It's theft, and it honors no one.

Maybe we're talking about two different things. I have never been to the
site under discussion. But if I had investment myself in constructing a
site, I would like it to have as much permanence as possible--sort of
like
planting a tree. I'm not talking about anything that has to do with
theft...I'm talking about preservation. Do you think people write books
mostly for the money (not in my field of expertise they don't...lol)?

I understand the desire to preserve that which one values...

...and I maintain that taking someone else's property without their
permission and without an exchange of value for value, is theft.

Under international law, the right to make copies of authored (drawn,
sculpted, photographed, composed, recorded,...) materials is the property
of the creator from the very instant of creation.

Opinions on an author's motivation have no relevance, and calling theft
"preservation" doesn't change its nature.

In my experience, fewer than one in a thousand of those who "value" work
sufficiently to want to "preserve" it, value it enough even to say "Thank
you for showing it to me."

I wasn't talking about those high-volume sexy sites. ; )
As an example, don't you think that the content of all of the "What is it?"
threads should be formally archived? Most of the folks at the sites
that I go to are pretty respectful folks.

Archiving is already taken care of. Google may be screwing it up these
days but they do make a pretty good attempt to keep the archive of every
USENET post that gets to their servers, except those with the
x-no-archive header or those that have been removed either at the
request of the author or because they were in some manner or other unlawful.

Of course if Google goes under that archive goes away.

The trouble with the "what is it" threads is that they don't make much
sense without the "what is it" images to go with them, and those images
belong to the site owner or whoever shoots them for him.

On Apr 9, 3:50*am, "Jeff Gorman" wrote:
"Bill Leonhardt" wrote

I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. *Many, many dead links.

Although my site never quite died, I made it fade away for a while.

Folk who like to list useful links might like to know that I've recently
restored it, somewhat edited, to its former state.

Jeff

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.ukwww.amgron.clara.net

Jeff: So glad to have what you so freely share and I highly value
accessable. Many thanks.



Yo Group:

I started this thread and, since I've lurked about on the rec long
enough to know better, I'm not surprised to see the direction it
took. I'm not interested in debating intellectural property and
copyright protection. Actually, I'm interested in woodworking. One
day I hope to acquire the necessary skill and have the time to post
web pages showing my shop, my projects, my jigs, etc. I have
thoroughly enjoyed these posts from others who have freely shared
their experiences. I have learned a lot and expect to learn more.
When I do post, I expect anyone who sees my postings to be able to
copy, save, share and use what they see and enhance their wood working
experiences. I would also like feedback and a "thank you", but that's
not neither necessary nor expected.

As I've said before, I've lerned an awful lot because others have
taken the time to post and, kinda like a debt, I expect to contribute
back some as well. I see this group like I see my wood working club.
A collection of folk who will freely share their skills and teach
others.

I am a hobbiest. Perhaps, if I did this for a living, I might not
want to share info so freely, but I expect I would not enjoy this
endevour as much.

So again, I'm sad to see some of the quality sites slip away and I
celebrate the opportunity to visit great sites (like Jeff's) that are
"here and now".

Bill

J. Clarke wrote:

The trouble with the "what is it" threads is that they don't make much
sense without the "what is it" images to go with them, and those images
belong to the site owner or whoever shoots them for him.

Well, the "What Is It?" threads serve as a nice example of something
that I wouldn't wish for society to lose. I see them in the same
category as a museum-piece--actually, they document the museum pieces!

Bill

Bill Leonhardt wrote:
On Apr 9, 3:50 am, "Jeff Gorman" wrote:
"Bill Leonhardt" wrote

I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. Many, many dead links.
Although my site never quite died, I made it fade away for a while.

Folk who like to list useful links might like to know that I've recently
restored it, somewhat edited, to its former state.

Jeff

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.ukwww.amgron.clara.net

Jeff: So glad to have what you so freely share and I highly value
accessable. Many thanks.



Yo Group:

I started this thread and, since I've lurked about on the rec long
enough to know better, I'm not surprised to see the direction it
took. I'm not interested in debating intellectural property and
copyright protection. Actually, I'm interested in woodworking. One
day I hope to acquire the necessary skill and have the time to post
web pages showing my shop, my projects, my jigs, etc. I have
thoroughly enjoyed these posts from others who have freely shared
their experiences. I have learned a lot and expect to learn more.
When I do post, I expect anyone who sees my postings to be able to
copy, save, share and use what they see and enhance their wood working
experiences. I would also like feedback and a "thank you", but that's
not neither necessary nor expected.

As I've said before, I've lerned an awful lot because others have
taken the time to post and, kinda like a debt, I expect to contribute
back some as well. I see this group like I see my wood working club.
A collection of folk who will freely share their skills and teach
others.

I am a hobbiest. Perhaps, if I did this for a living, I might not
want to share info so freely, but I expect I would not enjoy this
endevour as much.

So again, I'm sad to see some of the quality sites slip away and I
celebrate the opportunity to visit great sites (like Jeff's) that are
"here and now".

Bill

Well said!
--the other Bill

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/9/2010 3:54 AM, LDosser wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/8/2010 11:49 PM, LDosser wrote:

If your neighbors have that same opinion, you probably shouldn't park
on a public street.

I lock my car. You?

I also lock my car, but locks only keep the honest folks out.

And make it more difficult for the dishonest folks.


Under international law, the copyright exists from the instant of
creation - and it exists without regard to location of its object.

If you put it on a web site open to the public, you have no protection
from Personal use. Zero.

In my case at least, I /intend/ personal use. For other uses, my

For other uses I agree with you completely!

There are ways to protect your web site. google 'protect site download' -
substitute 'site' with 'page' or 'image' for more info.

protection comes after the fact and offers the advantage of being paid for
by the offender. For more info you can contact

McKee, Voorhees & Sease, PLC
801 Grand Ave, Suite 3200
Des Moines, IA 50309

They're worth every penny of their fees.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4bc01c76$0$14770
:

Had two brother-in-laws who were insurance agents and also
sold a lot of auto insurance.

Would listen to them tell tales of auto theft that were amazing.

Both agreed that if a car thief walked up to your locked car and took
more than two(2) minutes to break in, start up and drive away,
they were still learning the profession.

As Morris said, locks keep honest people honest.

Lew


They also keep the less determined people out. If a thief is looking for
an easy target, locking the door may convince them to go to the next one.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

"Jack Stein" wrote in message
...
least I don't recall
giving them permission, or you permission, to copy anything I write in the
Rec.


This is such a public forum, you know you are being archieved. If you want
privacey you can communicaate via email.

I agree with others, a lot of people make websites a collections of
techniques they want to teach to others. I have seen permission to copy,
rarely a "do not copy" but largly it is not addressed. But knowing what I do
of some of these people, they wouldn't mind at all. I think they would view
it as "still teaching", so long as proper credit is given. And it isn't
being done for commercial gain. Yes, I think that is a factor too.

John

"The Visitor" wrote in message
...

"Jack Stein" wrote in message
...
least I don't recall
giving them permission, or you permission, to copy anything I write in
the Rec.


This is such a public forum, you know you are being archieved. If you want
privacey you can communicaate via email.

I agree with others, a lot of people make websites a collections of
techniques they want to teach to others. I have seen permission to copy,
rarely a "do not copy" but largly it is not addressed. But knowing what I
do of some of these people, they wouldn't mind at all. I think they would
view it as "still teaching", so long as proper credit is given. And it
isn't being done for commercial gain. Yes, I think that is a factor too.

John

A few years back someone tried to bound and sell a bunch of "useful threads"
from a newsgroup,
and created all kinds of controversy by doing so. I don't recall how it
worked out,
but there was no shortage of opinions about the issue! : )

Bill

On 4/11/2010 3:57 PM, Bill wrote:
"The wrote in message
...

"Jack wrote in message
...
least I don't recall
giving them permission, or you permission, to copy anything I write in
the Rec.


This is such a public forum, you know you are being archieved. If you want
privacey you can communicaate via email.

I agree with others, a lot of people make websites a collections of
techniques they want to teach to others. I have seen permission to copy,
rarely a "do not copy" but largly it is not addressed. But knowing what I
do of some of these people, they wouldn't mind at all. I think they would
view it as "still teaching", so long as proper credit is given. And it
isn't being done for commercial gain. Yes, I think that is a factor too.

John

A few years back someone tried to bound and sell a bunch of "useful threads"
from a newsgroup,
and created all kinds of controversy by doing so. I don't recall how it
worked out,
but there was no shortage of opinions about the issue! : )

Well, if they were binding it and selling it in printed form without
permission of the authors that is clear copyright violation.

On Apr 11, 11:32*am, "The Visitor"
wrote:
"Jack Stein" wrote in message

This is such a public forum, you know you are being archieved. If you want
privacey you can communicaate via email.

You have a rude awakening coming if you think email is private.

I replied earlier about Ken Vaughn's site, lamenting the loss of Ken's
knowledge. Well, I just did a search and found his site at this URL, which
I believe is newer:

http://home.comcast.net/~kvaughn65/index.html Looks like, at least Ken, is
still around!

"Bill Leonhardt" wrote in message
...
On Apr 9, 3:50 am, "Jeff Gorman" wrote:
"Bill Leonhardt" wrote

I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. Many, many dead links.

Although my site never quite died, I made it fade away for a while.

Folk who like to list useful links might like to know that I've recently
restored it, somewhat edited, to its former state.

Jeff

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.ukwww.amgron.clara.net

Jeff: So glad to have what you so freely share and I highly value
accessable. Many thanks.



Yo Group:

I started this thread and, since I've lurked about on the rec long
enough to know better, I'm not surprised to see the direction it
took. I'm not interested in debating intellectural property and
copyright protection. Actually, I'm interested in woodworking. One
day I hope to acquire the necessary skill and have the time to post
web pages showing my shop, my projects, my jigs, etc. I have
thoroughly enjoyed these posts from others who have freely shared
their experiences. I have learned a lot and expect to learn more.
When I do post, I expect anyone who sees my postings to be able to
copy, save, share and use what they see and enhance their wood working
experiences. I would also like feedback and a "thank you", but that's
not neither necessary nor expected.

As I've said before, I've lerned an awful lot because others have
taken the time to post and, kinda like a debt, I expect to contribute
back some as well. I see this group like I see my wood working club.
A collection of folk who will freely share their skills and teach
others.

I am a hobbiest. Perhaps, if I did this for a living, I might not
want to share info so freely, but I expect I would not enjoy this
endevour as much.

So again, I'm sad to see some of the quality sites slip away and I
celebrate the opportunity to visit great sites (like Jeff's) that are
"here and now".

Bill

On Apr 20, 3:45*pm, "Phil Anderson" wrote:
I replied earlier about Ken Vaughn's site, lamenting the loss of Ken's
knowledge. *Well, I just did a search and found his site at this URL, which
I believe is newer:

http://home.comcast.net/~kvaughn65/index.html*Looks like, at least Ken, is
still around!

"Bill Leonhardt" wrote in message

...
On Apr 9, 3:50 am, "Jeff Gorman" wrote:





Great news!!!! Thanks Phil

Bill

Phil Anderson wrote:

Yo Group:

I started this thread and, since I've lurked about on the rec long
enough to know better, I'm not surprised to see the direction it
took. I'm not interested in debating intellectural property and
copyright protection. Actually, I'm interested in woodworking. One
day I hope to acquire the necessary skill and have the time to post
web pages showing my shop, my projects, my jigs, etc. I have
thoroughly enjoyed these posts from others who have freely shared
their experiences. I have learned a lot and expect to learn more.
When I do post, I expect anyone who sees my postings to be able to
copy, save, share and use what they see and enhance their wood working
experiences. I would also like feedback and a "thank you", but that's
not neither necessary nor expected.

As I've said before, I've lerned an awful lot because others have
taken the time to post and, kinda like a debt, I expect to contribute
back some as well. I see this group like I see my wood working club.
A collection of folk who will freely share their skills and teach
others.

I am a hobbiest. Perhaps, if I did this for a living, I might not
want to share info so freely, but I expect I would not enjoy this
endevour as much.

So again, I'm sad to see some of the quality sites slip away and I
celebrate the opportunity to visit great sites (like Jeff's) that are
"here and now".

Bill

Well said! Lots here do it for a living and still love it!!!!!
--
You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK !
Mandriva 2010 using KDE 4.3
Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:45:27 -0700, Phil Anderson wrote:

I replied earlier about Ken Vaughn's site, lamenting the loss of Ken's
knowledge. Well, I just did a search and found his site at this URL,
which I believe is newer:

http://home.comcast.net/~kvaughn65/index.html Looks like, at least Ken,
is still around!

I thought I would never say this, but this guy has too many clamps.

basilisk

--
A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse

Ken Vaughn's site is STILL ACTIVE

this works for me

http://home.comcast.net/~kvaughn65/

Visited him about 18 months ago.
A talented and sharing woodworker.
thanks again Ken

Ted



Phil Anderson wrote:
I've been wondering about Ken. He, like me, hasn't posted here for quite
awhile. I wonder if his site is just down or something more permanent has
happened...

"Bill Leonhardt" wrote in message
...
I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. Many, many dead links.

A sad goodbye to Howard Ruttan who often posted great things.

So sad to not be able to connect with Ken Vaughn's pages. Really a
wealth of info now not available.

Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.

Bill

On Apr 9, 3:50*am, "Jeff Gorman" wrote:
"Bill Leonhardt" wrote

I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. *Many, many dead links.

Although my site never quite died, I made it fade away for a while.

Folk who like to list useful links might like to know that I've recently
restored it, somewhat edited, to its former state.

Jeff

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.ukwww.amgron.clara.net

Jeff,

What is your opinion of Morris Dovey's sentiments?

If we were to archive pages from your site on our personal systems,
would you consider it "stealing" or "preserving"?