Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture
piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be
classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased
some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of
teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee
edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood.

Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools
and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am
completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its using
a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent
table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits
and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this
woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I bought
a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of
sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to
hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe
expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40 here,
$60 there, and on and on.

I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building things.
I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More
importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent.

Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant. I've
spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites,
prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call me
lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want to
see another round of that kind of crap get started.

Bob


  #2   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"Bob Davis" wrote in message
So I've purchased
some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf

of
teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee
edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood.

Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right

tools
and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased.


Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe
expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40

here,
$60 there, and on and on.

I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building

things.
I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More
importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent.


Step one is to decide what you want to make. That will determine the tools
you need. You bring up clamps. When I first started woodworking, I figured
clamps were non-productive and just were not fun things to spend money on
compared to a good tool like a cordless drill or other toy. Right now I am
waiting for the glue to set up on a piece that has 10 clamps on it. Varying
sizes are needed to get the job done so be sure to have a few sizes. A set
of chisels is a smart investment. The Marples blue handles are about $30 and
yes, they need to be honed. Look up the scary sharp method if you want to
get away cheap, or spend $30 to $100 for some stones.

As for spending money, yes, it is a few bucks every time you turn around.
Research a bit and buy quality tools that will last and get the job done. I
just got a new Lee Valley block plane and added it to the spreadsheet I have
listing my tools. The plane brought it to $7007. You can get away with a
lot less, you can spend a lot more.

Tooling has a stable value once the initial depreciation hits. Better than
a boat, car, or computer equipment. Woodworking gives you peace of mind in
that you never have to worry about what to do with surplus money you have.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome


  #3   Report Post  
Dave Balderstone
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

You can build anything you want with a handsaw, a couple of hand
planes, and a few chisels. Sandpaper and a piece of flat glass or
granite for sharpening.

djb

--
It's probably time to change my sig line, eh?
  #4   Report Post  
Bernard Randall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

Bob,

When I started my own shop I had much less than you, in fact it was nearly
all hand tools, tenon & rip saw, some chisels, hand plane, drill and square
Most of the greatest furniture ever made was done with not much more than
these basics.

The first project I ever made was a work bench, the frame was 2x4s and a
made up top. Unless you intend to be a wood machinist, I suggest that
making your own bench is a good place to start, there are plenty of plans
available and also all the hardware to incorporate vises and other hold
downs.

Be selective where you spend your budget, good quality cutting and measuring
tools are an investment. By that I mean saws and chisels, I have converted
to Japanese saws and chisels because typically their saws are very narrow
kerf and their chisels hold an edge much longer on hardwoods. Chisels and
hand planes need sharpening and the scary sharp method is excellent, I use
granite floor tiles @$1.00, on sale, from HD to stick the abrasive. Now
days I only use pipe clamps for the bigger work, its cheap and easy to get
the right size. I picked up a piece of ebony I use as a mallet, much cheaper
and just as effective as the expensive 'purpose made' items.

Learn to use a scraper, these cheap little tools can save you a whole lot of
sanding, that said a 1/4 sheet sander saves a lot of work. For clean up
work on made up panels I use the Stanley 80 scraper plane.

You already have a DP, one of the most important joint in most projects in
the mortice and tenon. A few forstner bits of the right size makes it very
easy to cut the mortice without a dedicated morticer. If your not familiar,
unlike a normal drill bit a Forstner can drill perfect segments of holes, so
you can set up a fence and run a mortice with a series of overlapping holes
that requires minimal cleanup.

Hope this gives you a few ideas.

Bernard R


"Bob Davis" wrote in message
link.net...
I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture
piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be
classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased
some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf

of
teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee
edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood.

Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right

tools
and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am
completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its

using
a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent
table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits
and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this
woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I

bought
a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of
sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to
hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe
expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40

here,
$60 there, and on and on.

I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building

things.
I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More
importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent.

Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant.

I've
spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites,
prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call

me
lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want

to
see another round of that kind of crap get started.

Bob




  #5   Report Post  
Pounds on Wood
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

Bob, you've got everything you need to get started except a project. Pick
and get thee to it. Don't know what to make? Magazines are a good place to
start. Read a bunch of them (betting you already do), and pick one of their
projects that you like and that can be made with the tools you have. If the
author of the project says you need something you don't have (they always
do), then 1)-try to figure out how to do it with a tool you do have, or
2)-change the design a bit to eliminate that tool, or 3)-go buy just what
you need to do it. Don't be discouraged if your copy of the project isn't
as good as the magazine, they have all the advantages including a lying
camera and air brush. Be satisfied if you learned something new. You are a
lot further away from your goal than $1k, in fact I don't think we ever stop
buying tools. That does _not_ mean you cannot make beautiful stuff, right
now.

In my estimation, going out and buying a shop full of tools all at once so
that you can take up the hobby of woodworking is the worst way to go. (not
saying you did that) Several reasons come to mind as to why that is a bad
idea, but maybe the most important is that no one can assemble a bunch of
machines, which they have never used before, and jump into making stuff
safely. The one tool at a time method usually results in spending some
quality time with each and learning the intricacies of each. Sorta like
having 7 wives. You would never become soulmates with any of them.

My last piece of advice is to get involved with a club. My learning
accelerated greatly when I became involved with a club, as did my interest.
Just about every place north of BFE has a club, but if not then just start
one. It is easy to do, even if it's just a handful of folks.

Oh, one more last piece. Put that Teak away for a rainy day and go buy some
Maple.

--
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop


"Bob Davis" wrote in message
link.net...
I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture
piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be
classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased
some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf

of
teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee
edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood.

Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right

tools
and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am
completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its

using
a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent
table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits
and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this
woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I

bought
a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of
sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to
hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe
expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40

here,
$60 there, and on and on.

I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building

things.
I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More
importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent.

Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant.

I've
spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites,
prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call

me
lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want

to
see another round of that kind of crap get started.

Bob






  #6   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

"Bob Davis" wrote in message
link.net...

Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant.


Wow! Four high quality, useful, helpful responses in the first couple of
hours. This is what I was hoping for. Thanks, guys.

Bob


  #7   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

"Pounds on Wood" wrote in message
...

Oh, one more last piece. Put that Teak away for a rainy day and go buy

some
Maple.


Bill,

Thanks for the good useful, advice. Can you expand on the comment about the
Teak? Is it difficult to work or what? I wanted to do something out of any
wood except oak. Oak is not exciting to me and probably never will be. The
teak was cheaper than other wood I found at the local retail outlets.

Bob


  #8   Report Post  
xrongor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

i can totally relate. i was sitting here a month ago asking myself exactly
the same questions. its daunting to think of plunking down a couple grand
on some tools, only to find you still need another grand for more... every
time you turn around its something else. its still preventing me from
moving. but you already have a big jump on me. i dont have a decent table
saw (which is see as being the single most expensive thing i will buy once i
get a decent fence, blade, etc..), or a jointer..

ive only been coming to this group for a month or two, but based on the sage
advice ive been given by people in this group, i would say this. forget
about your tools, ask yourself what you want to build. buy what you need
and dont have to build that. next time you'll have that tool and eventually
you'll have all you need. the longer you do it the less you have to buy.

but if i had to guess, based on my interpretation of what you consider
'there', i would say you are probably more like 3-4000$ away. 2000 minimum.
some from the seemingly endless number of 10-40$ bits, blades, clamps, jigs,
etc.. that you 'have to have' . and some because if you really want to 'be
there' you probably want a planer and a drill press, and a dust system, and
a better fence for your saw, and a bandsaw. and even if you just want to
get by with hand tools in some cases, you still need at least 2-3 of those
big items.

oh man.. its expensive

so my advice, buy next what you need next. if you think you can get by
without something, try and get by, after going the cheap route, weight in
the cost of the item against what you just went through and decide if its
worth the money to you.

randy

"Bob Davis" wrote in message
link.net...
I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture
piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be
classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased
some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf

of
teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee
edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood.

Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right

tools
and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am
completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its

using
a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent
table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits
and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this
woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I

bought
a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of
sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to
hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe
expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40

here,
$60 there, and on and on.

I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building

things.
I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More
importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent.

Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant.

I've
spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites,
prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call

me
lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want

to
see another round of that kind of crap get started.

Bob




  #9   Report Post  
Bernard Randall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"Bob Davis" wrote in message
news
"Pounds on Wood" wrote in message
...

Oh, one more last piece. Put that Teak away for a rainy day and go buy

some
Maple.


Bill,

Thanks for the good useful, advice. Can you expand on the comment about

the
Teak? Is it difficult to work or what? I wanted to do something out of

any
wood except oak. Oak is not exciting to me and probably never will be.

The
teak was cheaper than other wood I found at the local retail outlets.

Bob

You must have been very fortunate, the latest price I had for teak is $17.00
BF. For the right project teak is THE wood, apart from its price, its
drawback is it draws up sand in the growing stage and therefore blunts tools
very quickly, which is one of the reasons I mentioned Japanese chisels in my
earlier post. By contrast rough sawn maple is in the order of $3.50 BF and
is a good easily worked fine grained wood for interior use.

Bernard R


  #10   Report Post  
dave in fairfax
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects

Dave Balderstone wrote:
You can build anything you want with a handsaw, a couple of hand
planes, and a few chisels. Sandpaper and a piece of flat glass or
granite for sharpening.


He'll still need a mallet, unless I missed the lathe in that pile
of tools. ;-)
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/


  #11   Report Post  
Bernard Randall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"xrongor" wrote in message
news:yjo7c.55379$_w.879631@attbi_s53...
snip

but if i had to guess, based on my interpretation of what you consider
'there', i would say you are probably more like 3-4000$ away. 2000

minimum.
some from the seemingly endless number of 10-40$ bits, blades, clamps,

jigs,
etc.. that you 'have to have' . and some because if you really want to

'be
there' you probably want a planer and a drill press, and a dust system,

and
a better fence for your saw, and a bandsaw. and even if you just want to
get by with hand tools in some cases, you still need at least 2-3 of those
big items.

oh man.. its expensive

so my advice, buy next what you need next. if you think you can get by
without something, try and get by, after going the cheap route, weight in
the cost of the item against what you just went through and decide if its
worth the money to you.

randy

snip

My own MO is NOT to buy a tool unless I absolutely need to, with a few basic
hand tools it is possible to do just about anything to wood. If I find that
the volume of work requires the tool THEN buy it, e.g. I used to cut all my
mortices by hand until I replaced all my windows in my house in the UK, at
that time I was faced with making 40 windows, two double story bays, then it
was worth a morticer. Same with a bandsaw, it just takes time to rip a 8"
board, or cut curves with a coping saw, but if you have a large volume to do
then a bandsaw makes sense. Try it by hand, if its too much then buy, that
way you end up with tools that get a lot of use instead of trying to find
space for things that are seldom used, been there done that.

Bernard R


  #12   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"Bernard Randall" wrote in message
...

You must have been very fortunate, the latest price I had for teak is

$17.00
BF. For the right project teak is THE wood, apart from its price, its
drawback is it draws up sand in the growing stage and therefore blunts

tools
very quickly, which is one of the reasons I mentioned Japanese chisels in

my
earlier post. By contrast rough sawn maple is in the order of $3.50 BF

and
is a good easily worked fine grained wood for interior use.


Hi Bernard,

Thank you. I bought Teak from an individual for $4.00 BF. That's why I
have it.

Its good to know the characteristics you mentioned.

Bob


  #13   Report Post  
Larry Laminger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects



Bob Davis wrote:

I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture
piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be
classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased
some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of
teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee
edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood.

Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools
and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased.


snip

Bob


Bob,
I'm on my third go around at setting up a shop. The first one I had was
inherited from my dad when he passed away. That one was lost in a
flood. My second one took me 18 years to build up but my "X" managed to
empty it out in less than one weekend. About 7 years ago I started on
shop #3. I've set some guidelines for myself to follow:

#1. There are many things I "want" for my shop, and there are things
that I "need" to complete a particular project. Let the project's needs
over-ride the shop's wants.

#2. All I really "need" are basic tools that will cut, carve, bore and
smooth wood. The tools I "want" just make the job easier. (Don't tell my
wife I said that.)

#3. There's more than one way to accomplish anything that can be done
to a piece of wood. I just have to be creative and aware of what the
tools I already have are capable of doing.

#4. Take time to learn all I can about every tool I own. Read, ask
questions, play with it, build jigs for it... That makes following
guideline #3 much easier.

#5. I only buy tools that I believe will survive the trip to the
after-life...'cause I'm takin' these with me :~)

....and I had to add this one after reading your post

#6 Practice on inexpensive woods, not the stuff that goes for about
seven gazillion dollars(US)/B.F.

--
Larry G. Laminger
http://woodworks.laminger.com

  #14   Report Post  
patriarch
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

"Bob Davis" wrote in
link.net:

I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a
furniture piece or fine decorative box.

Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right
tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be
purchased.


Bob

major snippage above...

Economics 105, basic stuff. Any endeavor takes inputs of three fundamental
types: Labor. Money. Intellectual capital, or know how. To some extent,
these can be substituted for one another. If you have enough labor, you
can build a home with hand tools. Our ancestors did that routinely. If
you have sufficient money today, you can purchase machinery that will
repetitively accomplish the most amazing joinery. Or you can learn the
craft. When you learn the craft, then you can appreciate the value of a
tool, or the value of the output of effort.

But probably not on the Internet, not by itself. The reason the craft, and
it's output has appeal, is that the human touch is evident. It is not just
the repeated output of machines alone. There is soul to the piece, and
with that, perhaps a certain lack of perfection. Certainly a lack of
numbing repetition.

Find a teacher or three. I was lucky, and found a couple of neighbors, who
brought me back to hand craft. And the local adult education classes, and
woodworkers' club have been great in offering resources, displaying
techniques, encouragement, and creative outlet. And no small amount of
challenge, to see if I could come close, or perhaps surpass, some of the
work. And most recently, these same classes have been a way for me to
share a few of the many lessons and blessings I've enjoyed.

The more I've learned, the fewer new tools I've believed I needed to
accomplish something. The more good people I've met, the more I've learned
from each of them. The more I share my shop, and my time, the fewer
mistakes I seem to make. And opportunities for new projects show up all of
the time.

And strangely, $4/bf teak doesn't seem like a gloat any more.

Patriarch,
who believes that it really is about people, eventually.

  #15   Report Post  
Adguru
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

Great advice, Ed.
Most everything that I have purchased has been to do a particular job.
I've always felt, I can purchase the tool to do something for less
than hiring someone to do it for me. At least that is the way that it
has worked for my major tools.
Regards,
Ed


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:
Step one is to decide what you want to make. That will determine the tools
you need. You bring up clamps. When I first started woodworking, I figured
clamps were non-productive and just were not fun things to spend money on
compared to a good tool like a cordless drill or other toy.



  #16   Report Post  
Pounds on Wood
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

Tough to work, tough on tools, and expensive. You will always have the
gloat over the price you paid, but someday you will wish you still had the
teak.

--
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop


"Bob Davis" wrote in message
news
"Pounds on Wood" wrote in message
...

Oh, one more last piece. Put that Teak away for a rainy day and go buy

some
Maple.


Bill,

Thanks for the good useful, advice. Can you expand on the comment about

the
Teak? Is it difficult to work or what? I wanted to do something out of

any
wood except oak. Oak is not exciting to me and probably never will be.

The
teak was cheaper than other wood I found at the local retail outlets.

Bob




  #17   Report Post  
Mike in Mystic
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...

I just got a new Lee Valley block plane and added it to the spreadsheet I

have listing my tools. The plane brought it to $7007. You can get away
with a
lot less, you can spend a lot more.


This sounded like a good idea, Ed, so I just went and made myself a
spreadsheet, too. I've been meaning to go take digital photos of all my
tools, including the serial numbers, etc., but haven't had the
time/energy/motivation. Anyway, my list, just from memory so I probably
missed a lot, comes out at $14,265. Holy CRAP! And that doesn't count the
new truck I got at Christmas. 90% of that has been spent in the last 2
years, too. I think I need to talk to my insurance agent hehe.

But, you're advise is spot on - tools can last a lifetime and they keep
giving you many times their cost in returned enjoyment.

Mike



  #18   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

"Pounds on Wood" wrote in message
...

Tough to work, tough on tools, and expensive. You will always have the
gloat over the price you paid, but someday you will wish you still had the
teak.


I talked to my wife and she wants me to practice on some other wood, no
matter what I paid for it. She was unhappy that I even dared to
"experiment" on some of it. I think I'll go buy some more. I don't think
I'll find it at this price anytime soon. And I'll pick up some maple, too.
:-)

Bob


  #19   Report Post  
Mark Wells
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

It sounds like you have plenty of tools to do work. Reading the rec and
magazines can convince you that you "need" all kinds of stuff.

Lately I've been trying to make my hobby more about building things and less
about collecting tools.

My advice (actually this is just a message to myself): Go out into your
shop right now and decide to build something without spending any money.
Use scraps. Disassemble other projects. Be creative. You'll be amazed and
what you can do. If you have to buy something, then buy wood, but don't buy
any tools. Just figure out how to use what you have. If you design the
project, then you can design it using the tools and resources that are
available to you.

Also, find a buddy in your city and share tools.

Mark

"Bob Davis" wrote in message
link.net...
I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture
piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be
classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased
some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf

of
teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee
edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood.

Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right

tools
and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am
completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its

using
a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent
table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits
and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this
woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I

bought
a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of
sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to
hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe
expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40

here,
$60 there, and on and on.

I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building

things.
I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More
importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent.

Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant.

I've
spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites,
prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call

me
lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want

to
see another round of that kind of crap get started.

Bob




  #20   Report Post  
xrongor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

this one has worked out well for me g

randy

Also, find a buddy in your city and share tools.

Mark





  #21   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"Mark Wells" wrote in message
hlink.net...
It sounds like you have plenty of tools to do work. Reading the rec and
magazines can convince you that you "need" all kinds of stuff.


Mark, I appreciate your response and the spirit of the philosophy. But
based on other responses, I've pretty well determined that am woefully short
in the hand tool department. I have no means for doing a mortise and tenon
joint. I have no means for making two faces parallel to each other. After I
got the jointer, I moved into a completely new zone of capability but I
still wasn't there, in my humble opinion. I still seemed to be missing
stuff to build even a simple table to dimensions with high quality fit and
finish.

But you are right. I've got plenty of tools. I think I'll be in fat city
after I get a couple of planes and good chisel set plus a means to sharpen
them. I also need some cabinet clamps or pipe clamps.

Bob


  #22   Report Post  
Morris Dovey
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects

Bob Davis wrote:

I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a
furniture piece or fine decorative box.


I have a decent table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a
decent router, a few bits and, of course, an electric drill.
The number of "hidden" costs in this woodworking pursuit has
been staggering to me. It all started when I bought a table
saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind
of sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent
bench and vice to hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap.
Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps. It
seems every time I turn around, its $40 here, $60 there, and
on and on.


Bob...

Consider that you have the basics. There will always be tools
that you admire and accessories that would make this or that job
easier.

It's all too easy to become the self-employed curator of a tool
museum. Even if you have money to burn, it's time to slow your
spending to a crawl for everything except wood, glue, and
finishing materials.

Now it's time to begin discovering what you can do with the tools
you already have.

One of those things that you can do is... build more tools. You
write that "Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet
clamps." Perhaps; but probably not. In many situations you can
build the clamps you need from scraps and some inexpensive
threaded rod from your local hardware store. Develop the habit of
exercising your creativity with every aspect of every problem.

Now it's time to have some fun. Don't be afraid to start small -
make a small but beautiful jewelery box for SWMBO (and don't
forget to put some small thing inside to complete the package -
even a dried flower is better than an empty box. DAMHIKT) Make
gifts for family and friends. It's ok to let them know that the
object was a learning exercise - they'll still be pleased that
you thought of them while you were making shavings.

Sign and date all your work - even the jigs and fixtures you make
for your own use. This practise will have the most incredible
effect on the quality of your work. Take lots of pictures and
keep paper copies in your notebook. Give "in progress" picture
copies with the gifts you've made.

At some point you'll have a project that you'll know (you may not
be able to explain /how/ you know - but you'll know) could *only*
be done with teak. When that day comes, pause to pat yourself on
the back for having a 50 bf stash set aside for just this project.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

  #23   Report Post  
Morris Dovey
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects

Bob Davis wrote:

I have no means for doing a mortise and tenon joint.


I could swear you said you had a table saw and a drill press. A
shop-built tenoning jig for the TS is easy; and your drill press
should provide you with an easy way to rough-in mortises...

I have no means for making two faces parallel to each other.


Are you sure your table saw came without a fence? This making two
faces parallel is pretty much what that fence is for...

After I got the jointer, I moved into a completely new zone of
capability but I still wasn't there, in my humble opinion. I
still seemed to be missing stuff to build even a simple table
to dimensions with high quality fit and finish.


Nope. You seem to have the necessaries. You'll need sandpaper and
elbow grease; but I don't see any essential tools missing here.

But you are right. I've got plenty of tools. I think I'll be
in fat city after I get a couple of planes and good chisel set
plus a means to sharpen them. I also need some cabinet clamps
or pipe clamps.


"Fat city" is always on the horizon. It's like "tomorrow".

I don't really want to come across as antagonistic - but how much
of what /can/ be done today toward making this table has been
done? I'm assuming you have a plan and cut list in hand. Have you
cut apron boards? Blanks for legs? Boards to glue up for the top?

Please don't tell me I got three "no" responses...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

  #24   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Bob Davis wrote:

I have no means for doing a mortise and tenon joint.


I could swear you said you had a table saw and a drill press. A
shop-built tenoning jig for the TS is easy; and your drill press
should provide you with an easy way to rough-in mortises...


But don't I need a chisel to finish the mortise? You are right about
tenoning-in fact I had already built a tenoning-jig 3 months ago. I just
never got to the mortising part.

I have no means for making two faces parallel to each other.


Are you sure your table saw came without a fence? This making two
faces parallel is pretty much what that fence is for...


Works well for faces up to 2 1/2 inches wide or so. It doesn't do me much
good for 6" boards. I think I at least need a hand plane to finish the job.

"Fat city" is always on the horizon. It's like "tomorrow".


grin

I don't really want to come across as antagonistic - but how much
of what /can/ be done today toward making this table has been
done? I'm assuming you have a plan and cut list in hand. Have you
cut apron boards? Blanks for legs? Boards to glue up for the top?


Now, here is my mentality. I am a project executive for a large company and
I spend my career planning and looking ahead for things that might go wrong.
It transfers into how I do things for a hobby. I love to plan a project and
do a dry run in my head, then get the materials I need. I'm not the kind of
guy that just dives in without a plan and knowing all the materials/tools
I'm going to need before hand. Why? Because I just can't seem to "go out and
buy a cheap stanley plane" to get one job done. Instead I'll determine when
and what type I'll need it, then read and study until I determine brand that
I want to buy. I'll also study how to maintain it, use it safely, what all
I can do with it. I'll probably practice on boards for two days before I'll
ever use it on a project. That's me and its part of "my fun". After that,
whatever I buy will be an ingrained into my skillset and I'll be quite
happy. As an example, I must have ripped and crosscutted dozens of boards
while I tried to understand how to do it with repeatable quality and safety.
This also raised my confidence level.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions and the tone with which they were
rendered. I appreciate it.

Bob


  #25   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...

One of those things that you can do is... build more tools. You
write that "Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet
clamps." Perhaps; but probably not. In many situations you can
build the clamps you need from scraps and some inexpensive
threaded rod from your local hardware store. Develop the habit of
exercising your creativity with every aspect of every problem.


You are right. I've built a number of jigs and gizmos. But this primarily
taught me to use the tablesaw. I've decided my next project will be a
workbench.

Now it's time to have some fun. Don't be afraid to start small -
make a small but beautiful jewelery box for SWMBO


That's high on the list. Whether I need it or not, I'm going to buy some
kind of a hand plane to do this project.

Sign and date all your work - even the jigs and fixtures you make
for your own use. This practise will have the most incredible
effect on the quality of your work.


That's great! It will help move me from an engineering approach to an
artistic approach. My education is in engineering, but I raised a family of
artists. I might be considered an equal, if I did something that had a
signature on it.

Thanks!
Bob




  #26   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
tone.ca...
You can build anything you want with a handsaw, a couple of hand
planes, and a few chisels. Sandpaper and a piece of flat glass or
granite for sharpening.


In 3 lines you outlined a total void in my tools. I do have some sandpaper.
Sheesh, I'm an emporer with no clothes.

Bob


  #27   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"Bernard Randall" wrote in message
...

Be selective where you spend your budget, good quality cutting and

measuring
tools are an investment. By that I mean saws and chisels, I have

converted
to Japanese saws and chisels because typically their saws are very narrow
kerf and their chisels hold an edge much longer on hardwoods.


I just posted that I didn't have any of that. How could I possibly forget
the combination rip/crosscut Japanese Razor saw hanging on the wall and the
tiny coping saw and hacksaw? There - $45 worth of hand tools have kept my
urge for a $1200 laguna bandsaw at bay (barely).


thanks!
Bob


  #28   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Its been refreshing and
encouraging to me. It also helped to focus me. Here's a summary of key
points that I gathered from the postings:

1. Pick a project and do it with what I have.
2. Every tool suggestion was a hand tool. In particular: planes, chisels,
scary sharp sharpening system, mallet, and scrapers.
3. Approach the hobby as an artist. - Sign your work, take pictures. My
wife is a successful, professional artist. I have a great role model for the
artistic side. I'm her role model for marketing, publishing and planning.

Bob


  #29   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects


"Bob Davis" wrote in message

That's high on the list. Whether I need it or not, I'm going to buy some
kind of a hand plane to do this project.


You must have the new Lee Valley catalog right? Good selection of high
quality planes.
Ed


  #30   Report Post  
dave in fairfax
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects

Bob Davis wrote:
But you are right. I've got plenty of tools. I think I'll be in fat city
after I get a couple of planes and good chisel set plus a means to sharpen
them. I also need some cabinet clamps or pipe clamps.


You also need to make a shooting board and get a mallet. That'll
allow you to joint your boards and make the sides parallel. The
chisels never get touched by a hammer, get a good mallet. FYI,
nobody gets "a couple of planes" that's gonna hurt you bad.
You'll be amazed at how many you desperately need. ;-)

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/


  #31   Report Post  
RM MS
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood...

Just start by just getting started, making the projects that you want.
The need for any specific tool will make itself apparent. Too many
people in this group would have you believing that you need to buy out
every item in nothing but the most expensive and exotic catalogs before
you are worthy of their notice. Don't listen to their crap. Nobody can
own everything, and too often people get wrapped up in the details of
their new toy and it just becomes a distraction. It sounds like you
already have a good basic set of machinery. So many specialized tools
can be substituted with a little bit of initiative, and just general
shop experience will usually suggest a solution automatically after some
years of work. I am a journeyman pattenmaker, 24+ years in the trade.
My work is as exacting, intricate and complicated as anybody's, and many
times throughout a working day we are required to solve problems on
jobs, with no time for excuses. We use WWII era power tools, and our
chisels and planes are working tools, not showpieces. We don't have the
luxury of stopping a job and waiting for the UPS to deliver a shiny new
gizmo every time something a little bit different shows up on a
blueprint. Instead, we devise a solution on the spot, either making a
tool or using what we have to get the job done. So you don't have a
"biscuit joiner", then use a spline joint off the table saw, or a dowel
joint using drilled holes. Don't have a fancy, lockable, index-marked,
titanium-coated taper jig for your saw? Tack a plywood scrap onto the
workpiece and go for it. Throw it away when you are done and you don't
need to store it. I think you get the idea. Just get busy and produce
something, and it will all flow from there.

  #32   Report Post  
RM MS
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood...

If you are into jewelry boxes and small stuff, something like my
low-angle Stanley block plane which has served me perfectly adequately
for many years. I also have a tiny one, bought for a few dollars at a
hardware store many years ago, about 2-1/2" long by 1-1/2" wide, which I
have used often on small work such as long radii or wherever you might
want a slightly larger spokeshave with a flat face.

  #33   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

Kinda reminds of the QC guy from XYZ Co. on wedding night sitting on
edge of bed telling bride how good it's going to be and bride waking
up next morning hearing him still sitting on edge of bed telling her
how good it's going to be!

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:35:36 GMT, "Bob Davis"
wrote:

Now, here is my mentality. I am a project executive for a large company and
I spend my career planning and looking ahead for things that might go wrong.
It transfers into how I do things for a hobby. I love to plan a project and
do a dry run in my head, then get the materials I need. I'm not the kind of
guy that just dives in without a plan and knowing all the materials/tools
I'm going to need before hand. Why? Because I just can't seem to "go out and
buy a cheap stanley plane" to get one job done. Instead I'll determine when
and what type I'll need it, then read and study until I determine brand that
I want to buy. I'll also study how to maintain it, use it safely, what all
I can do with it. I'll probably practice on boards for two days before I'll
ever use it on a project.


  #34   Report Post  
Mike G
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

It's all quite simple Bob.

For, to pick a figure, four out of ten projects, you will need a new tool to
do some, as yet unknown, process and that tool will be of, as yet unknown,
(hand/power) type, and of unknown quality (how much you spend depends on how
often you think you are going to be using the tool).

When the situation arises you evaluate your needs, the options available,
and there will be a few, your budget, then do the best you can.

Anything after that requires a crystal ball, mine is out being cleaned and
recalibration.

The key words above are "as yet unknown".

A final note, That four out of ten ratio may vary but there will always be
at least one out of an as yet unknown number of projects that will require
something new. So, when it come time to buy that unknown tool, budget
wisely.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net


  #35   Report Post  
Doug Miller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

In article , " wrote:
Kinda reminds of the QC guy from XYZ Co. on wedding night sitting on
edge of bed telling bride how good it's going to be and bride waking
up next morning hearing him still sitting on edge of bed telling her
how good it's going to be!

Our sales rep from a certain computer manufacturer told me a story about a
woman who got married for the fourth time. On the wedding night, she told her
husband to be gentle, because she's still a virgin. He said, "Excuse me?
You've been married three times before, and you're still a virgin?"

She said, "Well, my first husband was a sales rep for [competing company #1],
and all he ever did was sit on the edge of the bed and tell me how good it was
going to be when he got it in. My second husband was a field service engineer
for [competing company #2] and all he ever did was sit on the edge of the bed
and tell me it would be up in thirty minutes. And my third husband was a
software support analyst for [the sales rep's own company] and all he ever did
was sit on the edge of the bed and tell me to read the manual and do it
myself!"

Which was actually a pretty accurate description of that company's software
support analysts, particularly the one assigned to our account.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com




  #36   Report Post  
Dave Balderstone
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

In article , dave in fairfax
wrote:

He'll still need a mallet, unless I missed the lathe in that pile
of tools.


He can make a mallet with a handsaw, a chisel, and some sandpaper.

;-)

--
It's probably time to change my sig line, eh?
  #37   Report Post  
dave in fairfax
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects

Dave Balderstone wrote:
He can make a mallet with a handsaw, a chisel, and some sandpaper.


True, but with a wonderful pile of tools like that, yes, I'm
jealous, it seems like such a hard way to do it. My real interest
was in making sure that he knew not to use a hammer, rather than
to try to seel him on getting a lathe. Which I would "never" do.
Nope not me. Un uh. Nope. Neve.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
  #38   Report Post  
Dave Balderstone
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

In article , dave in fairfax
wrote:

True, but with a wonderful pile of tools like that, yes, I'm
jealous, it seems like such a hard way to do it. My real interest
was in making sure that he knew not to use a hammer, rather than
to try to seel him on getting a lathe. Which I would "never" do.
Nope not me. Un uh. Nope. Neve.
Dave in Fairfax


SHUT UP!

I'm cleverly trying to convince him he doesn't need all that powered
stuff, then generously offer to "take it off your hands" and now
you've...

Oh... Pffht.

--
It's probably time to change my sig line, eh?
  #39   Report Post  
Mark Jerde
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

As for spending money, yes, it is a few bucks every time you turn
around. Research a bit and buy quality tools that will last and get
the job done. I just got a new Lee Valley block plane and added it
to the spreadsheet I have listing my tools. The plane brought it to
$7007. You can get away with a lot less, you can spend a lot more.


I tell SWMBO it is cheaper than a mistress, AND she should be able to get
most of the money back if I pass on before she does. (My jointer, planer,
drill press, Bessy K-Bodies, 2 routers, ..., were bought used, so the value
should stay relatively constant. g)

-- Mark


  #40   Report Post  
dave in fairfax
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects

Dave Balderstone wrote:
SHUT UP!
I'm cleverly trying to convince him he doesn't need all that powered
stuff, then generously offer to "take it off your hands" and now
you've...
Oh... Pffht.


Jeez, I'm sorry, I didn't catch on. Uh, I know, since that idea's
shot, how about I trade him some planes and mallets for some of
that big iron?
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT- Real stars and real heroes Gunner Metalworking 0 April 25th 04 08:15 PM
wood colour on dado wallpaper Glenn UK diy 2 March 19th 04 02:31 AM
Making a ruin into something habitable. Liz UK diy 140 August 12th 03 01:03 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"