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#1
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture
piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood. Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its using a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I bought a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40 here, $60 there, and on and on. I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building things. I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent. Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant. I've spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites, prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call me lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want to see another round of that kind of crap get started. Bob |
#2
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Bob Davis" wrote in message So I've purchased some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood. Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40 here, $60 there, and on and on. I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building things. I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent. Step one is to decide what you want to make. That will determine the tools you need. You bring up clamps. When I first started woodworking, I figured clamps were non-productive and just were not fun things to spend money on compared to a good tool like a cordless drill or other toy. Right now I am waiting for the glue to set up on a piece that has 10 clamps on it. Varying sizes are needed to get the job done so be sure to have a few sizes. A set of chisels is a smart investment. The Marples blue handles are about $30 and yes, they need to be honed. Look up the scary sharp method if you want to get away cheap, or spend $30 to $100 for some stones. As for spending money, yes, it is a few bucks every time you turn around. Research a bit and buy quality tools that will last and get the job done. I just got a new Lee Valley block plane and added it to the spreadsheet I have listing my tools. The plane brought it to $7007. You can get away with a lot less, you can spend a lot more. Tooling has a stable value once the initial depreciation hits. Better than a boat, car, or computer equipment. Woodworking gives you peace of mind in that you never have to worry about what to do with surplus money you have. Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome |
#3
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
You can build anything you want with a handsaw, a couple of hand
planes, and a few chisels. Sandpaper and a piece of flat glass or granite for sharpening. djb -- It's probably time to change my sig line, eh? |
#4
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
Bob,
When I started my own shop I had much less than you, in fact it was nearly all hand tools, tenon & rip saw, some chisels, hand plane, drill and square Most of the greatest furniture ever made was done with not much more than these basics. The first project I ever made was a work bench, the frame was 2x4s and a made up top. Unless you intend to be a wood machinist, I suggest that making your own bench is a good place to start, there are plenty of plans available and also all the hardware to incorporate vises and other hold downs. Be selective where you spend your budget, good quality cutting and measuring tools are an investment. By that I mean saws and chisels, I have converted to Japanese saws and chisels because typically their saws are very narrow kerf and their chisels hold an edge much longer on hardwoods. Chisels and hand planes need sharpening and the scary sharp method is excellent, I use granite floor tiles @$1.00, on sale, from HD to stick the abrasive. Now days I only use pipe clamps for the bigger work, its cheap and easy to get the right size. I picked up a piece of ebony I use as a mallet, much cheaper and just as effective as the expensive 'purpose made' items. Learn to use a scraper, these cheap little tools can save you a whole lot of sanding, that said a 1/4 sheet sander saves a lot of work. For clean up work on made up panels I use the Stanley 80 scraper plane. You already have a DP, one of the most important joint in most projects in the mortice and tenon. A few forstner bits of the right size makes it very easy to cut the mortice without a dedicated morticer. If your not familiar, unlike a normal drill bit a Forstner can drill perfect segments of holes, so you can set up a fence and run a mortice with a series of overlapping holes that requires minimal cleanup. Hope this gives you a few ideas. Bernard R "Bob Davis" wrote in message link.net... I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood. Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its using a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I bought a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40 here, $60 there, and on and on. I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building things. I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent. Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant. I've spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites, prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call me lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want to see another round of that kind of crap get started. Bob |
#5
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
Bob, you've got everything you need to get started except a project. Pick
and get thee to it. Don't know what to make? Magazines are a good place to start. Read a bunch of them (betting you already do), and pick one of their projects that you like and that can be made with the tools you have. If the author of the project says you need something you don't have (they always do), then 1)-try to figure out how to do it with a tool you do have, or 2)-change the design a bit to eliminate that tool, or 3)-go buy just what you need to do it. Don't be discouraged if your copy of the project isn't as good as the magazine, they have all the advantages including a lying camera and air brush. Be satisfied if you learned something new. You are a lot further away from your goal than $1k, in fact I don't think we ever stop buying tools. That does _not_ mean you cannot make beautiful stuff, right now. In my estimation, going out and buying a shop full of tools all at once so that you can take up the hobby of woodworking is the worst way to go. (not saying you did that) Several reasons come to mind as to why that is a bad idea, but maybe the most important is that no one can assemble a bunch of machines, which they have never used before, and jump into making stuff safely. The one tool at a time method usually results in spending some quality time with each and learning the intricacies of each. Sorta like having 7 wives. You would never become soulmates with any of them. My last piece of advice is to get involved with a club. My learning accelerated greatly when I became involved with a club, as did my interest. Just about every place north of BFE has a club, but if not then just start one. It is easy to do, even if it's just a handful of folks. Oh, one more last piece. Put that Teak away for a rainy day and go buy some Maple. -- Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop "Bob Davis" wrote in message link.net... I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood. Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its using a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I bought a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40 here, $60 there, and on and on. I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building things. I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent. Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant. I've spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites, prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call me lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want to see another round of that kind of crap get started. Bob |
#6
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Bob Davis" wrote in message
link.net... Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant. Wow! Four high quality, useful, helpful responses in the first couple of hours. This is what I was hoping for. Thanks, guys. Bob |
#7
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Pounds on Wood" wrote in message
... Oh, one more last piece. Put that Teak away for a rainy day and go buy some Maple. Bill, Thanks for the good useful, advice. Can you expand on the comment about the Teak? Is it difficult to work or what? I wanted to do something out of any wood except oak. Oak is not exciting to me and probably never will be. The teak was cheaper than other wood I found at the local retail outlets. Bob |
#8
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
i can totally relate. i was sitting here a month ago asking myself exactly
the same questions. its daunting to think of plunking down a couple grand on some tools, only to find you still need another grand for more... every time you turn around its something else. its still preventing me from moving. but you already have a big jump on me. i dont have a decent table saw (which is see as being the single most expensive thing i will buy once i get a decent fence, blade, etc..), or a jointer.. ive only been coming to this group for a month or two, but based on the sage advice ive been given by people in this group, i would say this. forget about your tools, ask yourself what you want to build. buy what you need and dont have to build that. next time you'll have that tool and eventually you'll have all you need. the longer you do it the less you have to buy. but if i had to guess, based on my interpretation of what you consider 'there', i would say you are probably more like 3-4000$ away. 2000 minimum. some from the seemingly endless number of 10-40$ bits, blades, clamps, jigs, etc.. that you 'have to have' . and some because if you really want to 'be there' you probably want a planer and a drill press, and a dust system, and a better fence for your saw, and a bandsaw. and even if you just want to get by with hand tools in some cases, you still need at least 2-3 of those big items. oh man.. its expensive so my advice, buy next what you need next. if you think you can get by without something, try and get by, after going the cheap route, weight in the cost of the item against what you just went through and decide if its worth the money to you. randy "Bob Davis" wrote in message link.net... I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood. Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its using a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I bought a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40 here, $60 there, and on and on. I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building things. I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent. Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant. I've spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites, prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call me lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want to see another round of that kind of crap get started. Bob |
#9
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Bob Davis" wrote in message news "Pounds on Wood" wrote in message ... Oh, one more last piece. Put that Teak away for a rainy day and go buy some Maple. Bill, Thanks for the good useful, advice. Can you expand on the comment about the Teak? Is it difficult to work or what? I wanted to do something out of any wood except oak. Oak is not exciting to me and probably never will be. The teak was cheaper than other wood I found at the local retail outlets. Bob You must have been very fortunate, the latest price I had for teak is $17.00 BF. For the right project teak is THE wood, apart from its price, its drawback is it draws up sand in the growing stage and therefore blunts tools very quickly, which is one of the reasons I mentioned Japanese chisels in my earlier post. By contrast rough sawn maple is in the order of $3.50 BF and is a good easily worked fine grained wood for interior use. Bernard R |
#10
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects
Dave Balderstone wrote:
You can build anything you want with a handsaw, a couple of hand planes, and a few chisels. Sandpaper and a piece of flat glass or granite for sharpening. He'll still need a mallet, unless I missed the lathe in that pile of tools. ;-) Dave in Fairfax -- reply-to doesn't work use: daveldr at att dot net American Association of Woodturners http://www.woodturner.org Capital Area Woodturners http://www.capwoodturners.org/ |
#11
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"xrongor" wrote in message news:yjo7c.55379$_w.879631@attbi_s53... snip but if i had to guess, based on my interpretation of what you consider 'there', i would say you are probably more like 3-4000$ away. 2000 minimum. some from the seemingly endless number of 10-40$ bits, blades, clamps, jigs, etc.. that you 'have to have' . and some because if you really want to 'be there' you probably want a planer and a drill press, and a dust system, and a better fence for your saw, and a bandsaw. and even if you just want to get by with hand tools in some cases, you still need at least 2-3 of those big items. oh man.. its expensive so my advice, buy next what you need next. if you think you can get by without something, try and get by, after going the cheap route, weight in the cost of the item against what you just went through and decide if its worth the money to you. randy snip My own MO is NOT to buy a tool unless I absolutely need to, with a few basic hand tools it is possible to do just about anything to wood. If I find that the volume of work requires the tool THEN buy it, e.g. I used to cut all my mortices by hand until I replaced all my windows in my house in the UK, at that time I was faced with making 40 windows, two double story bays, then it was worth a morticer. Same with a bandsaw, it just takes time to rip a 8" board, or cut curves with a coping saw, but if you have a large volume to do then a bandsaw makes sense. Try it by hand, if its too much then buy, that way you end up with tools that get a lot of use instead of trying to find space for things that are seldom used, been there done that. Bernard R |
#12
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Bernard Randall" wrote in message ... You must have been very fortunate, the latest price I had for teak is $17.00 BF. For the right project teak is THE wood, apart from its price, its drawback is it draws up sand in the growing stage and therefore blunts tools very quickly, which is one of the reasons I mentioned Japanese chisels in my earlier post. By contrast rough sawn maple is in the order of $3.50 BF and is a good easily worked fine grained wood for interior use. Hi Bernard, Thank you. I bought Teak from an individual for $4.00 BF. That's why I have it. Its good to know the characteristics you mentioned. Bob |
#13
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects
Bob Davis wrote: I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood. Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. snip Bob Bob, I'm on my third go around at setting up a shop. The first one I had was inherited from my dad when he passed away. That one was lost in a flood. My second one took me 18 years to build up but my "X" managed to empty it out in less than one weekend. About 7 years ago I started on shop #3. I've set some guidelines for myself to follow: #1. There are many things I "want" for my shop, and there are things that I "need" to complete a particular project. Let the project's needs over-ride the shop's wants. #2. All I really "need" are basic tools that will cut, carve, bore and smooth wood. The tools I "want" just make the job easier. (Don't tell my wife I said that.) #3. There's more than one way to accomplish anything that can be done to a piece of wood. I just have to be creative and aware of what the tools I already have are capable of doing. #4. Take time to learn all I can about every tool I own. Read, ask questions, play with it, build jigs for it... That makes following guideline #3 much easier. #5. I only buy tools that I believe will survive the trip to the after-life...'cause I'm takin' these with me :~) ....and I had to add this one after reading your post #6 Practice on inexpensive woods, not the stuff that goes for about seven gazillion dollars(US)/B.F. -- Larry G. Laminger http://woodworks.laminger.com |
#14
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Bob Davis" wrote in
link.net: I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture piece or fine decorative box. Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. Bob major snippage above... Economics 105, basic stuff. Any endeavor takes inputs of three fundamental types: Labor. Money. Intellectual capital, or know how. To some extent, these can be substituted for one another. If you have enough labor, you can build a home with hand tools. Our ancestors did that routinely. If you have sufficient money today, you can purchase machinery that will repetitively accomplish the most amazing joinery. Or you can learn the craft. When you learn the craft, then you can appreciate the value of a tool, or the value of the output of effort. But probably not on the Internet, not by itself. The reason the craft, and it's output has appeal, is that the human touch is evident. It is not just the repeated output of machines alone. There is soul to the piece, and with that, perhaps a certain lack of perfection. Certainly a lack of numbing repetition. Find a teacher or three. I was lucky, and found a couple of neighbors, who brought me back to hand craft. And the local adult education classes, and woodworkers' club have been great in offering resources, displaying techniques, encouragement, and creative outlet. And no small amount of challenge, to see if I could come close, or perhaps surpass, some of the work. And most recently, these same classes have been a way for me to share a few of the many lessons and blessings I've enjoyed. The more I've learned, the fewer new tools I've believed I needed to accomplish something. The more good people I've met, the more I've learned from each of them. The more I share my shop, and my time, the fewer mistakes I seem to make. And opportunities for new projects show up all of the time. And strangely, $4/bf teak doesn't seem like a gloat any more. Patriarch, who believes that it really is about people, eventually. |
#15
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
Great advice, Ed.
Most everything that I have purchased has been to do a particular job. I've always felt, I can purchase the tool to do something for less than hiring someone to do it for me. At least that is the way that it has worked for my major tools. Regards, Ed "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news: Step one is to decide what you want to make. That will determine the tools you need. You bring up clamps. When I first started woodworking, I figured clamps were non-productive and just were not fun things to spend money on compared to a good tool like a cordless drill or other toy. |
#16
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
Tough to work, tough on tools, and expensive. You will always have the
gloat over the price you paid, but someday you will wish you still had the teak. -- Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop "Bob Davis" wrote in message news "Pounds on Wood" wrote in message ... Oh, one more last piece. Put that Teak away for a rainy day and go buy some Maple. Bill, Thanks for the good useful, advice. Can you expand on the comment about the Teak? Is it difficult to work or what? I wanted to do something out of any wood except oak. Oak is not exciting to me and probably never will be. The teak was cheaper than other wood I found at the local retail outlets. Bob |
#17
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com... I just got a new Lee Valley block plane and added it to the spreadsheet I have listing my tools. The plane brought it to $7007. You can get away with a lot less, you can spend a lot more. This sounded like a good idea, Ed, so I just went and made myself a spreadsheet, too. I've been meaning to go take digital photos of all my tools, including the serial numbers, etc., but haven't had the time/energy/motivation. Anyway, my list, just from memory so I probably missed a lot, comes out at $14,265. Holy CRAP! And that doesn't count the new truck I got at Christmas. 90% of that has been spent in the last 2 years, too. I think I need to talk to my insurance agent hehe. But, you're advise is spot on - tools can last a lifetime and they keep giving you many times their cost in returned enjoyment. Mike |
#18
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Pounds on Wood" wrote in message
... Tough to work, tough on tools, and expensive. You will always have the gloat over the price you paid, but someday you will wish you still had the teak. I talked to my wife and she wants me to practice on some other wood, no matter what I paid for it. She was unhappy that I even dared to "experiment" on some of it. I think I'll go buy some more. I don't think I'll find it at this price anytime soon. And I'll pick up some maple, too. :-) Bob |
#19
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
It sounds like you have plenty of tools to do work. Reading the rec and
magazines can convince you that you "need" all kinds of stuff. Lately I've been trying to make my hobby more about building things and less about collecting tools. My advice (actually this is just a message to myself): Go out into your shop right now and decide to build something without spending any money. Use scraps. Disassemble other projects. Be creative. You'll be amazed and what you can do. If you have to buy something, then buy wood, but don't buy any tools. Just figure out how to use what you have. If you design the project, then you can design it using the tools and resources that are available to you. Also, find a buddy in your city and share tools. Mark "Bob Davis" wrote in message link.net... I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture piece or fine decorative box. Most of what I have built to date would be classed as carpentry or lawn and garden type furniture. So I've purchased some decent power tools and last week bought my first "real" wood - 50 bf of teak. I took a piece and ran it through the jointer and put a Roman ogee edge on it just to play around. I was pumped by the beauty of the wood. Now I'm frustrated. I feel like I am halfway there in having the right tools and skills. Skills come with trying. Tools have to be purchased. So I am completely open to using hand tools to get there and making do, if its using a good pocket knife. But I'm not sure how much I lack. I have a decent table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I bought a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40 here, $60 there, and on and on. I'm ready to just settle down to paying money for wood and building things. I cannot help but feel I'm at least $1000 from getting there. More importantly, I'm not sure how it will have to be spent. Lastly, guys be gentle and understanding. I'm frustrated and ignorant. I've spent more than my share of time searching Google, scouring websites, prowling the stores, reading books and watching videos. Please don't call me lazy or stupid or a Normite. I am none of these and certainly don't want to see another round of that kind of crap get started. Bob |
#20
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
this one has worked out well for me g
randy Also, find a buddy in your city and share tools. Mark |
#21
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Mark Wells" wrote in message hlink.net... It sounds like you have plenty of tools to do work. Reading the rec and magazines can convince you that you "need" all kinds of stuff. Mark, I appreciate your response and the spirit of the philosophy. But based on other responses, I've pretty well determined that am woefully short in the hand tool department. I have no means for doing a mortise and tenon joint. I have no means for making two faces parallel to each other. After I got the jointer, I moved into a completely new zone of capability but I still wasn't there, in my humble opinion. I still seemed to be missing stuff to build even a simple table to dimensions with high quality fit and finish. But you are right. I've got plenty of tools. I think I'll be in fat city after I get a couple of planes and good chisel set plus a means to sharpen them. I also need some cabinet clamps or pipe clamps. Bob |
#22
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects
Bob Davis wrote:
I want to get started making real hardwood projects - either a furniture piece or fine decorative box. I have a decent table saw, drill press, and jointer. I have a decent router, a few bits and, of course, an electric drill. The number of "hidden" costs in this woodworking pursuit has been staggering to me. It all started when I bought a table saw and discovered I needed a blade. Planes require some kind of sharpening equipment or system. Planes require a decent bench and vice to hold the work. Good planes are NOT cheap. Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps. It seems every time I turn around, its $40 here, $60 there, and on and on. Bob... Consider that you have the basics. There will always be tools that you admire and accessories that would make this or that job easier. It's all too easy to become the self-employed curator of a tool museum. Even if you have money to burn, it's time to slow your spending to a crawl for everything except wood, glue, and finishing materials. Now it's time to begin discovering what you can do with the tools you already have. One of those things that you can do is... build more tools. You write that "Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps." Perhaps; but probably not. In many situations you can build the clamps you need from scraps and some inexpensive threaded rod from your local hardware store. Develop the habit of exercising your creativity with every aspect of every problem. Now it's time to have some fun. Don't be afraid to start small - make a small but beautiful jewelery box for SWMBO (and don't forget to put some small thing inside to complete the package - even a dried flower is better than an empty box. DAMHIKT) Make gifts for family and friends. It's ok to let them know that the object was a learning exercise - they'll still be pleased that you thought of them while you were making shavings. Sign and date all your work - even the jigs and fixtures you make for your own use. This practise will have the most incredible effect on the quality of your work. Take lots of pictures and keep paper copies in your notebook. Give "in progress" picture copies with the gifts you've made. At some point you'll have a project that you'll know (you may not be able to explain /how/ you know - but you'll know) could *only* be done with teak. When that day comes, pause to pat yourself on the back for having a 50 bf stash set aside for just this project. -- Morris Dovey DeSoto, Iowa USA |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects
Bob Davis wrote:
I have no means for doing a mortise and tenon joint. I could swear you said you had a table saw and a drill press. A shop-built tenoning jig for the TS is easy; and your drill press should provide you with an easy way to rough-in mortises... I have no means for making two faces parallel to each other. Are you sure your table saw came without a fence? This making two faces parallel is pretty much what that fence is for... After I got the jointer, I moved into a completely new zone of capability but I still wasn't there, in my humble opinion. I still seemed to be missing stuff to build even a simple table to dimensions with high quality fit and finish. Nope. You seem to have the necessaries. You'll need sandpaper and elbow grease; but I don't see any essential tools missing here. But you are right. I've got plenty of tools. I think I'll be in fat city after I get a couple of planes and good chisel set plus a means to sharpen them. I also need some cabinet clamps or pipe clamps. "Fat city" is always on the horizon. It's like "tomorrow". I don't really want to come across as antagonistic - but how much of what /can/ be done today toward making this table has been done? I'm assuming you have a plan and cut list in hand. Have you cut apron boards? Blanks for legs? Boards to glue up for the top? Please don't tell me I got three "no" responses... -- Morris Dovey DeSoto, Iowa USA |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message ... Bob Davis wrote: I have no means for doing a mortise and tenon joint. I could swear you said you had a table saw and a drill press. A shop-built tenoning jig for the TS is easy; and your drill press should provide you with an easy way to rough-in mortises... But don't I need a chisel to finish the mortise? You are right about tenoning-in fact I had already built a tenoning-jig 3 months ago. I just never got to the mortising part. I have no means for making two faces parallel to each other. Are you sure your table saw came without a fence? This making two faces parallel is pretty much what that fence is for... Works well for faces up to 2 1/2 inches wide or so. It doesn't do me much good for 6" boards. I think I at least need a hand plane to finish the job. "Fat city" is always on the horizon. It's like "tomorrow". grin I don't really want to come across as antagonistic - but how much of what /can/ be done today toward making this table has been done? I'm assuming you have a plan and cut list in hand. Have you cut apron boards? Blanks for legs? Boards to glue up for the top? Now, here is my mentality. I am a project executive for a large company and I spend my career planning and looking ahead for things that might go wrong. It transfers into how I do things for a hobby. I love to plan a project and do a dry run in my head, then get the materials I need. I'm not the kind of guy that just dives in without a plan and knowing all the materials/tools I'm going to need before hand. Why? Because I just can't seem to "go out and buy a cheap stanley plane" to get one job done. Instead I'll determine when and what type I'll need it, then read and study until I determine brand that I want to buy. I'll also study how to maintain it, use it safely, what all I can do with it. I'll probably practice on boards for two days before I'll ever use it on a project. That's me and its part of "my fun". After that, whatever I buy will be an ingrained into my skillset and I'll be quite happy. As an example, I must have ripped and crosscutted dozens of boards while I tried to understand how to do it with repeatable quality and safety. This also raised my confidence level. Thanks for your comments and suggestions and the tone with which they were rendered. I appreciate it. Bob |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
... One of those things that you can do is... build more tools. You write that "Gluing requires clamps, maybe expensive cabinet clamps." Perhaps; but probably not. In many situations you can build the clamps you need from scraps and some inexpensive threaded rod from your local hardware store. Develop the habit of exercising your creativity with every aspect of every problem. You are right. I've built a number of jigs and gizmos. But this primarily taught me to use the tablesaw. I've decided my next project will be a workbench. Now it's time to have some fun. Don't be afraid to start small - make a small but beautiful jewelery box for SWMBO That's high on the list. Whether I need it or not, I'm going to buy some kind of a hand plane to do this project. Sign and date all your work - even the jigs and fixtures you make for your own use. This practise will have the most incredible effect on the quality of your work. That's great! It will help move me from an engineering approach to an artistic approach. My education is in engineering, but I raised a family of artists. I might be considered an equal, if I did something that had a signature on it. Thanks! Bob |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message tone.ca... You can build anything you want with a handsaw, a couple of hand planes, and a few chisels. Sandpaper and a piece of flat glass or granite for sharpening. In 3 lines you outlined a total void in my tools. I do have some sandpaper. Sheesh, I'm an emporer with no clothes. Bob |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Bernard Randall" wrote in message ... Be selective where you spend your budget, good quality cutting and measuring tools are an investment. By that I mean saws and chisels, I have converted to Japanese saws and chisels because typically their saws are very narrow kerf and their chisels hold an edge much longer on hardwoods. I just posted that I didn't have any of that. How could I possibly forget the combination rip/crosscut Japanese Razor saw hanging on the wall and the tiny coping saw and hacksaw? There - $45 worth of hand tools have kept my urge for a $1200 laguna bandsaw at bay (barely). thanks! Bob |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Its been refreshing and
encouraging to me. It also helped to focus me. Here's a summary of key points that I gathered from the postings: 1. Pick a project and do it with what I have. 2. Every tool suggestion was a hand tool. In particular: planes, chisels, scary sharp sharpening system, mallet, and scrapers. 3. Approach the hobby as an artist. - Sign your work, take pictures. My wife is a successful, professional artist. I have a great role model for the artistic side. I'm her role model for marketing, publishing and planning. Bob |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
"Bob Davis" wrote in message That's high on the list. Whether I need it or not, I'm going to buy some kind of a hand plane to do this project. You must have the new Lee Valley catalog right? Good selection of high quality planes. Ed |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects
Bob Davis wrote:
But you are right. I've got plenty of tools. I think I'll be in fat city after I get a couple of planes and good chisel set plus a means to sharpen them. I also need some cabinet clamps or pipe clamps. You also need to make a shooting board and get a mallet. That'll allow you to joint your boards and make the sides parallel. The chisels never get touched by a hammer, get a good mallet. FYI, nobody gets "a couple of planes" that's gonna hurt you bad. You'll be amazed at how many you desperately need. ;-) Dave in Fairfax -- reply-to doesn't work use: daveldr at att dot net American Association of Woodturners http://www.woodturner.org Capital Area Woodturners http://www.capwoodturners.org/ |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood...
Just start by just getting started, making the projects that you want.
The need for any specific tool will make itself apparent. Too many people in this group would have you believing that you need to buy out every item in nothing but the most expensive and exotic catalogs before you are worthy of their notice. Don't listen to their crap. Nobody can own everything, and too often people get wrapped up in the details of their new toy and it just becomes a distraction. It sounds like you already have a good basic set of machinery. So many specialized tools can be substituted with a little bit of initiative, and just general shop experience will usually suggest a solution automatically after some years of work. I am a journeyman pattenmaker, 24+ years in the trade. My work is as exacting, intricate and complicated as anybody's, and many times throughout a working day we are required to solve problems on jobs, with no time for excuses. We use WWII era power tools, and our chisels and planes are working tools, not showpieces. We don't have the luxury of stopping a job and waiting for the UPS to deliver a shiny new gizmo every time something a little bit different shows up on a blueprint. Instead, we devise a solution on the spot, either making a tool or using what we have to get the job done. So you don't have a "biscuit joiner", then use a spline joint off the table saw, or a dowel joint using drilled holes. Don't have a fancy, lockable, index-marked, titanium-coated taper jig for your saw? Tack a plywood scrap onto the workpiece and go for it. Throw it away when you are done and you don't need to store it. I think you get the idea. Just get busy and produce something, and it will all flow from there. |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood...
If you are into jewelry boxes and small stuff, something like my
low-angle Stanley block plane which has served me perfectly adequately for many years. I also have a tiny one, bought for a few dollars at a hardware store many years ago, about 2-1/2" long by 1-1/2" wide, which I have used often on small work such as long radii or wherever you might want a slightly larger spokeshave with a flat face. |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
Kinda reminds of the QC guy from XYZ Co. on wedding night sitting on
edge of bed telling bride how good it's going to be and bride waking up next morning hearing him still sitting on edge of bed telling her how good it's going to be! On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:35:36 GMT, "Bob Davis" wrote: Now, here is my mentality. I am a project executive for a large company and I spend my career planning and looking ahead for things that might go wrong. It transfers into how I do things for a hobby. I love to plan a project and do a dry run in my head, then get the materials I need. I'm not the kind of guy that just dives in without a plan and knowing all the materials/tools I'm going to need before hand. Why? Because I just can't seem to "go out and buy a cheap stanley plane" to get one job done. Instead I'll determine when and what type I'll need it, then read and study until I determine brand that I want to buy. I'll also study how to maintain it, use it safely, what all I can do with it. I'll probably practice on boards for two days before I'll ever use it on a project. |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
It's all quite simple Bob.
For, to pick a figure, four out of ten projects, you will need a new tool to do some, as yet unknown, process and that tool will be of, as yet unknown, (hand/power) type, and of unknown quality (how much you spend depends on how often you think you are going to be using the tool). When the situation arises you evaluate your needs, the options available, and there will be a few, your budget, then do the best you can. Anything after that requires a crystal ball, mine is out being cleaned and recalibration. The key words above are "as yet unknown". A final note, That four out of ten ratio may vary but there will always be at least one out of an as yet unknown number of projects that will require something new. So, when it come time to buy that unknown tool, budget wisely. -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
In article , " wrote:
Kinda reminds of the QC guy from XYZ Co. on wedding night sitting on edge of bed telling bride how good it's going to be and bride waking up next morning hearing him still sitting on edge of bed telling her how good it's going to be! Our sales rep from a certain computer manufacturer told me a story about a woman who got married for the fourth time. On the wedding night, she told her husband to be gentle, because she's still a virgin. He said, "Excuse me? You've been married three times before, and you're still a virgin?" She said, "Well, my first husband was a sales rep for [competing company #1], and all he ever did was sit on the edge of the bed and tell me how good it was going to be when he got it in. My second husband was a field service engineer for [competing company #2] and all he ever did was sit on the edge of the bed and tell me it would be up in thirty minutes. And my third husband was a software support analyst for [the sales rep's own company] and all he ever did was sit on the edge of the bed and tell me to read the manual and do it myself!" Which was actually a pretty accurate description of that company's software support analysts, particularly the one assigned to our account. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com) For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
In article , dave in fairfax
wrote: He'll still need a mallet, unless I missed the lathe in that pile of tools. He can make a mallet with a handsaw, a chisel, and some sandpaper. ;-) -- It's probably time to change my sig line, eh? |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects
Dave Balderstone wrote:
He can make a mallet with a handsaw, a chisel, and some sandpaper. True, but with a wonderful pile of tools like that, yes, I'm jealous, it seems like such a hard way to do it. My real interest was in making sure that he knew not to use a hammer, rather than to try to seel him on getting a lathe. Which I would "never" do. Nope not me. Un uh. Nope. Neve. Dave in Fairfax -- reply-to doesn't work use: daveldr at att dot net American Association of Woodturners http://www.woodturner.org Capital Area Woodturners http://www.capwoodturners.org/ |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
In article , dave in fairfax
wrote: True, but with a wonderful pile of tools like that, yes, I'm jealous, it seems like such a hard way to do it. My real interest was in making sure that he knew not to use a hammer, rather than to try to seel him on getting a lathe. Which I would "never" do. Nope not me. Un uh. Nope. Neve. Dave in Fairfax SHUT UP! I'm cleverly trying to convince him he doesn't need all that powered stuff, then generously offer to "take it off your hands" and now you've... Oh... Pffht. -- It's probably time to change my sig line, eh? |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real wood projects
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
As for spending money, yes, it is a few bucks every time you turn around. Research a bit and buy quality tools that will last and get the job done. I just got a new Lee Valley block plane and added it to the spreadsheet I have listing my tools. The plane brought it to $7007. You can get away with a lot less, you can spend a lot more. I tell SWMBO it is cheaper than a mistress, AND she should be able to get most of the money back if I pass on before she does. (My jointer, planer, drill press, Bessy K-Bodies, 2 routers, ..., were bought used, so the value should stay relatively constant. g) -- Mark |
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Ok, so how much more do I need to get started making real woodprojects
Dave Balderstone wrote:
SHUT UP! I'm cleverly trying to convince him he doesn't need all that powered stuff, then generously offer to "take it off your hands" and now you've... Oh... Pffht. Jeez, I'm sorry, I didn't catch on. Uh, I know, since that idea's shot, how about I trade him some planes and mallets for some of that big iron? Dave in Fairfax -- reply-to doesn't work use: daveldr at att dot net American Association of Woodturners http://www.woodturner.org Capital Area Woodturners http://www.capwoodturners.org/ |
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