I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

All depends on what you intend/want to do and what else you have.

IMO different tools, different uses.

For one, a small, inexpensive RAS will be unlikely to have the accuracy
w/o fiddling w/ it the miter saw (again unless you're going HF or its ilk).

But, still, "all depends"...

--

"Pete" wrote in message
...
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.


I started off with a RAS and built half the furniture in my house.

4 years later I bought a Craftsman contractors saw and IMEDIATELY quit using
the RAS.

5 years later I bought a 12" CMS to suppliment the TS

9 years later I upgraded my contractors to a cabinet saw.

Almost immediately I quit using my CMS.

I do all my of cutting on the 52" capacity cabinet saw.

Leon wrote:
"Pete" wrote in message
...
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.


I started off with a RAS and built half the furniture in my house.

4 years later I bought a Craftsman contractors saw and IMEDIATELY quit using
the RAS.

5 years later I bought a 12" CMS to suppliment the TS

9 years later I upgraded my contractors to a cabinet saw.

Almost immediately I quit using my CMS.

I do all my of cutting on the 52" capacity cabinet saw.

I have a 10" Delta CMS that I used quite a bit but never really liked doing so. I bought a
used 10" Craftsman RAS this past year which I've set up as a crosscut-only machine. Haven't
used the CMS since; it's all table saw and RAS. :-)

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Steve Turner wrote:

I have a 10" Delta CMS that I used quite a bit but never really liked
doing so. I bought a used 10" Craftsman RAS this past year which
I've set up as a crosscut-only machine. Haven't used the CMS since;
it's all table saw and RAS. :-)

Ditto. Unless I have to crosscut something too wide - like a cabinet
panel - in which case I use the table saw with a *large* crosscut sled.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do
on a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado. Even so, you can
replicate the results by taking multiple passes on the SCMS.

I had option of free Dewalt RAS or purchasing a Dewalt 12" SCMS. I
bought the slider.

~Mark.

Woody wrote:
Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do
on a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado. Even so, you can
replicate the results by taking multiple passes on the SCMS.

....and run a molding head, a spindle sander, do horizontal boring, run a
rotary surface planer, and a few other things.


I had option of free Dewalt RAS or purchasing a Dewalt 12" SCMS. I
bought the slider.

~Mark.

On 12/3/09 5:09 PM, "Woody" wrote:

Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do
on a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado. Even so, you can
replicate the results by taking multiple passes on the SCMS.

No true. My RAS has a molding head, a planer attachment and a chuck for
router bits. It does a much poorer job at any of those tasks than a
dedicated tool but it is possible. Being able to rotate the head vertically
opens up possibilities that a SCMS cannot touch.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:09:21 -0500, Woody
wrote:

Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

You can probably pick up a 30YO RAS for almost nothing. That said, I
have both (and a table saw). The RAS hasn't been used in some time
though.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do
on a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado. Even so, you can
replicate the results by taking multiple passes on the SCMS.

How do you dado on an SCMS, even with multiple passes?

I had option of free Dewalt RAS or purchasing a Dewalt 12" SCMS. I
bought the slider.

I may replace my slider, though it would be another 10" so it uses the
same blades as my table saw. 12" blades are expen$ive, and I don't
cut anything thick enough to need it.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:15:38 -0600, krw wrote:

I may replace my slider, though it would be another 10" so it uses the
same blades as my table saw. 12" blades are expen$ive, and I don't
cut anything thick enough to need it.

The blade dia. is the only thing that is the same between a 10" CMS a
10" table saw and even a 10" RAS. The same would also apply to other
diameters. The hook angle of the blades are different for each saw.
This is because of the way the blade moves in relation to the work or
vice versa. Many people use the blades on the wrong saw and could
injure their tools, their work or even themselves. Always use the
blade designed for that specific saw on that saw only.

Gordon Shumway

Our Constitution needs to be used less as a shield
for the guilty and more as a sword for the victim.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:24:35 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:15:38 -0600, krw wrote:

I may replace my slider, though it would be another 10" so it uses the
same blades as my table saw. 12" blades are expen$ive, and I don't
cut anything thick enough to need it.

The blade dia. is the only thing that is the same between a 10" CMS a
10" table saw and even a 10" RAS. The same would also apply to other
diameters. The hook angle of the blades are different for each saw.
This is because of the way the blade moves in relation to the work or
vice versa. Many people use the blades on the wrong saw and could
injure their tools, their work or even themselves. Always use the
blade designed for that specific saw on that saw only.

How is the blade going to "injure the tools"? I've looked at a lot of
blades and few say anything about the saw they're designed for. THe
ones that do tend to be cheaper blades for CMS saws.

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:24:35 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

How is the blade going to "injure the tools"? I've looked at a lot of
blades and few say anything about the saw they're designed for. THe
ones that do tend to be cheaper blades for CMS saws.


Actually the better quality blades, Forrest for instance, do in fact suggest
speciffic blades for specific saws.

WW 1 Best for RAS

WW 2 Best for TS

And then there is the Chop Master for the chop and miter saws.

Additionally because the RAS is typically going to be doing more cross
cutting than ripping the WW1 has more teeth. When there are more teeth
during cross cutting you get a smoother cut.
The WW2 for the TS has fewer teeth and as you would suspect the TS is better
suited for ripping.

With both those comments in mind I have 2, 40 tooth WW 2 blades for my TS.
I would challange most any blade including the WW1 to produce a better cross
cut. Then why have more teeth on a more cross cut specific blade?
With more teeth you get a faster cut when cross cutting with the same smooth
result. With fewer teeth you simply cut slower to replicate a blade with
more teeth. Additionally with more teeth doing the " harder on the teeth"
cross cutting they stay sharper longer than a blade with fewer teeth.

Last, the blades made for specific saws also have tooth bevel angles that
are better suited to cutting wood on that particular saw. Typically with a
TS the higher the blade is above the cut the better the cut. But for that
you typically have the blade teeth completely clear the top of the work
being cut. For a RAS you typically don't want the blade to penetrate the
table surface much more than the bottom of the cut. Here a different tooth
hook angle is more beneficial and reduces the tendency of the blade to grab
the work.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:17:55 -0600, krw wrote:

How is the blade going to "injure the tools"? I've looked at a lot of
blades and few say anything about the saw they're designed for. THe
ones that do tend to be cheaper blades for CMS saws.

For example, using a blade that isn't designed for a RAS could draw
the saw more quickly into the work. This could result in bending the
saw blade or possibly bending the arbor on the motor.

Gordon Shumway

Our Constitution needs to be used less as a shield
for the guilty and more as a sword for the victim.

krw wrote:

How do you dado on an SCMS, even with multiple passes?


1. Set depth-of-cut on SCMS so blade doesn't cut through wood but cuts
to dado depth.
2. Set start/stop blocks to limit width of dado
3. Run multiple passes between start/stop to clear out dado.

~Mark.

On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:26:33 -0500, Woody
wrote:

krw wrote:

How do you dado on an SCMS, even with multiple passes?


1. Set depth-of-cut on SCMS so blade doesn't cut through wood but cuts
to dado depth.
2. Set start/stop blocks to limit width of dado
3. Run multiple passes between start/stop to clear out dado.

Depth of cut adjustment?

"krw" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:26:33 -0500, Woody
wrote:

krw wrote:

How do you dado on an SCMS, even with multiple passes?


1. Set depth-of-cut on SCMS so blade doesn't cut through wood but cuts
to dado depth.
2. Set start/stop blocks to limit width of dado
3. Run multiple passes between start/stop to clear out dado.

Depth of cut adjustment?

Most major brand SCMS have a dept of cut adjustment so that the blade will
only go down a predetermined distance.

"Woody" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do on
a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado.

Quite true as long as you dismiss planing, molding, routing, using a flex
shaft, drilling, polishing, et.

"CW" wrote in message
m...

"Woody" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do on
a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado.

Quite true as long as you dismiss planing, molding, routing, using a flex
shaft, drilling, polishing, et.


So a Shopsmith might be even better?
(Except for the price)

Max

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:28:49 -0700, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:

"CW" wrote in message
om...

"Woody" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do on
a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado.

Quite true as long as you dismiss planing, molding, routing, using a flex
shaft, drilling, polishing, et.


So a Shopsmith might be even better?
(Except for the price)

IMHSHO, discrete tools always beat the combos, especially if you need
to do two different setups at a time. My buddy with the Shopsmith
curses that he has to tear down one setup to do another one. Going
from station to station is _always_ better, given room.

--
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas
to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label
of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem
important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.
-- Thomas J. Watson

On Dec 4, 11:21*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:28:49 -0700, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:





"CW" wrote in message
om...

"Woody" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do on
a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado.

Quite true as long as you dismiss planing, molding, routing, using a flex
shaft, drilling, polishing, et.

So a Shopsmith might be even better?
(Except for the price)

IMHSHO, discrete tools always beat the combos, especially if you need
to do two different setups at a time. *My buddy with the Shopsmith
curses that he has to tear down one setup to do another one. Going
from station to station is _always_ better, given room. *

--
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas
to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label
of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem
important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Thomas J. Watson- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am the original poster of this question. I have a Grizzly G0444Z TS,
a 10" miter saw, and sears RAS. My intentions were now to sell my
recently bought RAS and 10" MS and buy the Craftman 12" SCMS which is
on sale at Sears. What I really want to do is free up some space in my
shop by getting rid of the RAS and hope to buy a drum sander to put in
the space where the RAS now is. That's why I asked the question would
I be losing anything by getting the scms. The only difference I see is
not being able to rip. I have other means to do the other things an
ras offers.
Thanks again for your opinions.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:28:49 -0700, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:

"CW" wrote in message
news:uIednc72GJ92_4XWnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@earthlink. com...

"Woody" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.

Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do
on
a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado.

Quite true as long as you dismiss planing, molding, routing, using a
flex
shaft, drilling, polishing, et.


So a Shopsmith might be even better?
(Except for the price)

IMHSHO, discrete tools always beat the combos, especially if you need
to do two different setups at a time. My buddy with the Shopsmith
curses that he has to tear down one setup to do another one. Going
from station to station is _always_ better, given room.

That was my point.

Max

CW wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.
Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do on
a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado.

Quite true as long as you dismiss planing, molding, routing, using a flex
shaft, drilling, polishing, et.



Wow, maybe I should get a ShopSmith and lose my planer, jointer, router
table, drill press and sanders :-)

Now, be honest, have you used *all* those functions on your RAS?

I also suspect that a number of those (notably molding, sanding) can
likewise be performed on a tablesaw. And apparently you can also do
biscuit joining on a RAS as well:

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/51...scription.html

I guess to "refine" my response, if you're looking for a tool whose
primary/sole use is related to cross-cutting of wood either squarely or
at various angles, my preference would be a SCMS even if you wanted to
occasionally cut dadoes.

If I was looking for a multi-purpose tool, I would consider a ShopSmith
or better and be too timid to try molding/routing/planing on a RAS.

~Mark.

"Woody" wrote in message
...
CW wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy. If I get a RAS I will not be
doing any ripping with it. If I get a scms would I not have the best
of both worlds and would it be safer to use and require less shop
space and allow me to sell my chop saw? I can get a ras cheap.
Thanks for your opinions.
Assuming you don't want to rip on it, then the *only* thing you can do
on a RAS that you can't do on a SCMS is a stacked dado.

Quite true as long as you dismiss planing, molding, routing, using a flex
shaft, drilling, polishing, et.

Wow, maybe I should get a ShopSmith and lose my planer, jointer, router
table, drill press and sanders :-)

Now, be honest, have you used *all* those functions on your RAS?

All but polishing.

Woody wrote:

Wow, maybe I should get a ShopSmith and lose my planer, jointer,
router table, drill press and sanders :-)

Now, be honest, have you used *all* those functions on your RAS?

Yes.

Forget planing...the rotary planer leaves a terrible surface and takes a
long time.

Forget routing. Speed is too low, collets chintzy, lots of wobble.

Molding head is fine.

Horizontal drilling can be handy.

Sanding can be handy...

1. Vertical drum works well; at least as well as on a drill press.

2. I often use a sanding plate in preference to my dedicated belt/disk
machine because I can sand to a precise length.

3. I used to use a 9" soft pad for surface sanding, worked fine. I now
use a Performax.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Dec 3, 3:05*pm, Pete wrote:
I am trying to decide which one to buy.

You don't say if you have a TS. If you don't, I suspect the responses
would be different. LEON makes the point about dedicated blades
designed for the tool in play and that - as well as several other
thoughtful responses here is good advice.

The SCM Saws I've seen that seem sturdy and substantial enough cost as
much as many of the decent contractor table saws - hence, I've passed
and have a RAS and 12" Miter Saw built into a dedicated table and two
table saws (one small portable unit and a Sears Contractor).

The RAS sat for years in my small shop with barely any use - I finally
sold the dedicated steel rolling stand I'd built for it and it was
nearly three years before I finished the table it sits on now. So, not
much use at all.

Still, the ability to dado some 12" by 72" plywood to capture the
shorter "shelf pieces" is one task I'd rather do on the RAS than the
TS because I'll never have enough space to build a big table and out
feed for the Sears TS and I plan on building lots of shelving for the
new shop. I can fit an 18" wide board on my RAS and it can be 8 feet
long or more without tipping.

The 12" Miter Saw has come in handy building my shop - lots of 2x6
boards went into the structure as well as lots of angle cut studs. It
was great for building basic saw horses cutting bot angles at once for
nicely splayed legs.

But, If I didn't have my Table Saw, I'd not be doing much woodworking
at all.