JayB wrote:
wrote in message
m...
JayB wrote:

Yes, that's one of the reasons that I was thinking of just using a
clear finish and no staining. Unfortunately, the "clear"
polyurethane finishes makes the wood look bad -- as if it was poorly
stained.

Can you elaborate on how it looks "bad"? Geesh...red oak should be
beautiful! I don't know flooring or wood grades involved in new mfg.
flooring, just lots of old furniture. Is the flooring a brand name?

I bought it at Lumber Liquidators ( http://LumberLiquidators.com ).
It's unfinished #2 Red Oak (with their product number of RO22, I
think). The way it looks bad is that the grain absorbs the clear
polyurethane and what started out as a very light colored wood becomes
dark, blotchy, grainy, junky-looking wood. When I apply any color of
oil-based stain, the stain absorbs in a way that the wood grain looks
and is whatever color the stain makes it. But applying clear
polyurethane doesn't do the same thing.

With clear finish, oak generally is a mid-tone to deep brown, even
without any stain. And it is very "grainy". It might help if you
upload some pix and post a link, at least for the areas you consider
problems. A good way to get a close idea of how wood will look with a
clear finish is to simply wet it with solvent. Any chance you can
replace some of the worst looking boards?

I took a look at the link you provided and went to the product...RO22 is
called "rustic", as opposed to other red oak called "select" and some
called "natural". If some of the wood is much harder, accounting for
the very light look, you can blend them using stain if you apply the
stain and don't wipe it off the light spots. I haven't done flooring,
but lots of furniture, and have mixed my own stains. If you apply
half-strength stain to the entire floor, you can help blend very light
spots by brushing on same stain, full-strength and not wiping it off.
Sort of a half-assed way of fixing something you apparently didn't
expect when you purchased. I'll cross-post this and see if woodworkers
have some better ideas.

I assume you wipe the stain?

On Nov 6, 7:03*pm, "
wrote:
JayB wrote:
wrote in message
om...
JayB wrote:

Yes, that's one of the reasons that I was thinking of just using a
clear finish and no staining. *Unfortunately, the "clear"
polyurethane finishes makes the wood look bad -- as if it was poorly
stained.

Can you elaborate on how it looks "bad"? *Geesh...red oak should be
beautiful! *I don't know flooring or wood grades involved in new mfg..
flooring, just lots of old furniture. *Is the flooring a brand name?

I bought it at Lumber Liquidators (http://LumberLiquidators.com). *
It's unfinished #2 Red Oak (with their product number of RO22, I
think). *The way it looks bad is that the grain absorbs the clear
polyurethane and what started out as a very light colored wood becomes
dark, blotchy, grainy, junky-looking wood. *When I apply any color of
oil-based stain, the stain absorbs in a way that the wood grain looks
and is whatever color the stain makes it. *But applying clear
polyurethane doesn't do the same thing.

With clear finish, oak generally is a mid-tone to deep brown, even
without any stain. *And it is very "grainy". *It might help if you
upload some pix and post a link, at least for the areas you consider
problems. *A good way to get a close idea of how wood will look with a
clear finish is to simply wet it with solvent. *Any chance you can
replace some of the worst looking boards?

I took a look at the link you provided and went to the product...RO22 is
called "rustic", as opposed to other red oak called "select" and some
called "natural". *If some of the wood is much harder, accounting for
the very light look, you can blend them using stain if you apply the
stain and don't wipe it off the light spots. *I haven't done flooring,
but lots of furniture, and have mixed my own stains. *If you apply
half-strength stain to the entire floor, you can help blend very light
spots by brushing on same stain, full-strength and not wiping it off.
Sort of a half-assed way of fixing something you apparently didn't
expect when you purchased. *I'll cross-post this and see if woodworkers
have some better ideas.

I assume you wipe the stain?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain
absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?

wrote in message
m...

With clear finish, oak generally is a mid-tone to deep brown, even without
any stain. And it is very "grainy".

Maybe that's the problem. I was hoping to be able to apply a completely
clear finish and have it look pretty much the way it looks now unfinished,
but with a clear finsih on top. I guess that won't happen.

In my original post, I was also asking about clear Moisture Cure Urethane.
The impression I got is that when it goes on it doesn't really change the
color or look of the wood. I think they said that is what is used on
bowling alleys. I don't know if all of that is true, but it doesn't matter
anyway because I can't find any places to buy the stuff other than online.

It might help if you upload some pix and post a link, at least for the
areas you consider problems. A good way to get a close idea of how wood
will look with a clear finish is to simply wet it with solvent. Any
chance you can replace some of the worst looking boards?

Replacing boards won't be a realsitic option at this point. And, I don't
think I'll get to do the picture idea. Since today is Saturday, I need to
figure out something and get this done this weekend.

I have a hunch that what I am going to end up doing is picking one of the
stains that I already tested and go with that. The stains all darken and
even out the color variations, and some of them look okay enough to go with
(I'm leaning toward Colonial Maple or Golden Pecan). Maybe it won't be
exactly what I was hoping for -- just a clear finish over the unfinished
wood -- but it will be done.

I took a look at the link you provided and went to the product...RO22 is
called "rustic", as opposed to other red oak called "select" and some
called "natural". If some of the wood is much harder, accounting for the
very light look, you can blend them using stain if you apply the stain and
don't wipe it off the light spots. I haven't done flooring, but lots of
furniture, and have mixed my own stains. If you apply half-strength stain
to the entire floor, you can help blend very light spots by brushing on
same stain, full-strength and not wiping it off. Sort of a half-assed way
of fixing something you apparently didn't expect when you purchased. I'll
cross-post this and see if woodworkers have some better ideas.

I assume you wipe the stain?

Yes, I did do what the instructions said about applying the stain, leaving
it there for a certain amount of time, and then wiping it. I thought it was
fairly interesting the way the stains worked and looked by doing that.
Earlier I had tried MinWax "Polyshades" which is a combination of stain and
polyurethane in one. That was okay, and it would be a lot easier, but then
I read that Polyshades is not supposed to be used on floors -- I am not sure
why -- so I guess that's out.

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. It does appear that you know a
lot about all of this and have a lot of experience with it.

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:18:46 -0500, "JayB" wrote:

wrote in message

Maybe that's the problem. I was hoping to be able to apply a completely
clear finish and have it look pretty much the way it looks now unfinished,
but with a clear finsih on top. I guess that won't happen.

If you can find it, you might use Ronseal Diamond Hard Clear Floor
Varnish. It's UK based, but might be imported elsewhere. Give them a
call.

http://www.ronseal.co.uk/products/product.jsp?id=37

JayB wrote:
wrote in message
m...

With clear finish, oak generally is a mid-tone to deep brown, even
without any stain. And it is very "grainy".

Maybe that's the problem. I was hoping to be able to apply a completely
clear finish and have it look pretty much the way it looks now
unfinished, but with a clear finsih on top. I guess that won't happen.

In my original post, I was also asking about clear Moisture Cure
Urethane. The impression I got is that when it goes on it doesn't really
change the color or look of the wood. I think they said that is what is
used on bowling alleys. I don't know if all of that is true, but it
doesn't matter anyway because I can't find any places to buy the stuff
other than online.

It might help if you upload some pix and post a link, at least for the
areas you consider problems. A good way to get a close idea of how
wood will look with a clear finish is to simply wet it with solvent.
Any chance you can replace some of the worst looking boards?

Replacing boards won't be a realsitic option at this point. And, I
don't think I'll get to do the picture idea. Since today is Saturday, I
need to figure out something and get this done this weekend.

I have a hunch that what I am going to end up doing is picking one of
the stains that I already tested and go with that. The stains all
darken and even out the color variations, and some of them look okay
enough to go with (I'm leaning toward Colonial Maple or Golden Pecan).
Maybe it won't be exactly what I was hoping for -- just a clear finish
over the unfinished wood -- but it will be done.

I took a look at the link you provided and went to the product...RO22
is called "rustic", as opposed to other red oak called "select" and
some called "natural". If some of the wood is much harder, accounting
for the very light look, you can blend them using stain if you apply
the stain and don't wipe it off the light spots. I haven't done
flooring, but lots of furniture, and have mixed my own stains. If you
apply half-strength stain to the entire floor, you can help blend very
light spots by brushing on same stain, full-strength and not wiping it
off. Sort of a half-assed way of fixing something you apparently
didn't expect when you purchased. I'll cross-post this and see if
woodworkers have some better ideas.

I assume you wipe the stain?

Yes, I did do what the instructions said about applying the stain,
leaving it there for a certain amount of time, and then wiping it. I
thought it was fairly interesting the way the stains worked and looked
by doing that. Earlier I had tried MinWax "Polyshades" which is a
combination of stain and polyurethane in one. That was okay, and it
would be a lot easier, but then I read that Polyshades is not supposed
to be used on floors -- I am not sure why -- so I guess that's out.

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. It does appear that you
know a lot about all of this and have a lot of experience with it.

Most good paint stores ... Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore...carry Minwax
products. A real paint store is a good place to make friends) The
issue you are dealing with is a less than ideal selection of wood....if
you read the details of each type of red oak on the website, you will
see that. The "rustic" grade is the leftovers, with knots,
less-than-desireable grain, etc. Always a good learning experience )
You still have a good solid floor that will take lots of wear and tear
- unless there is a flood or animals toileting on oak floors, it is hard
to damage it. Done properly, it is also pretty easy to maintain.
Taking off shoes at the door will help ) I'd take solid oak before
pergo-type c=== any day.

I stripped oak kitchen cabinets for a friend once because I was out of
work and needed money. Only after I slathered on paint remover did I
realize the end panels of the cabinets were not solid oak like rest of
the cabinet...they were particle board with printed grain. I was
already on the verge of nervous breakdown and that almost put me over
the edge. I got out my art stuff and between wood stain and a few brush
strokes with oil paint I was able to fake the grain pretty well. Not
obvious. I also painted fake woodgrain on floor boards for a doll
house. If you have spots that really stick out like a sore thumb, you
can paint in - with a light touch - enough grain to camouflage the spots
before you do final finish.

hr(bob) wrote:

What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain
absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?

I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but I'll try
it.

JayB wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain
absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?

I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but
I'll try it.

He said wood *FILLER*. One would assume that is what he means. Paste wood
filler.

A sealer - a different thing - might help depending on what it is.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

wrote:

.... The
issue you are dealing with is a less than ideal selection of
wood....if you read the details of each type of red oak on the
website, you will see that. The "rustic" grade is the leftovers,
with knots, less-than-desireable grain, etc. Always a good learning
experience ...

Yep, that and few other stupid choices on my part turned this whole thing
into a big mess. So, for now, I am just going to slog my way through this
and chalk it up as an expensive and seemingly neverending learning
experience. Next time, prefinished hardwood for sure -- just install it and
walk out the door with nothing to finish. Plus, by buying unfinished wood,
and too low of a grade of wood to boot, I ended up with way more wasted wood
than I would have had with prefinished wood. Oh well.

) You still have a good solid floor that will take lots
of wear and tear - unless there is a flood or animals toileting on
oak floors, it is hard to damage it. Done properly, it is also
pretty easy to maintain. Taking off shoes at the door will help ) I'd
take solid oak before pergo-type c=== any day.

I stripped oak kitchen cabinets for a friend once because I was out of
work and needed money. Only after I slathered on paint remover did I
realize the end panels of the cabinets were not solid oak like rest of
the cabinet...they were particle board with printed grain. I was
already on the verge of nervous breakdown and that almost put me over
the edge. I got out my art stuff and between wood stain and a few
brush strokes with oil paint I was able to fake the grain pretty
well. Not obvious. I also painted fake woodgrain on floor boards
for a doll house. If you have spots that really stick out like a
sore thumb, you can paint in - with a light touch - enough grain to
camouflage the spots before you do final finish.

I like the story about the cabinets and it almost putting you over the edge.
I know the feeling.

dadiOH wrote:
JayB wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain
absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?
I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but
I'll try it.

He said wood *FILLER*. One would assume that is what he means. Paste wood
filler.

A sealer - a different thing - might help depending on what it is.

A wood filler is for filling defects.

JayB wrote:
wrote:
.... The
issue you are dealing with is a less than ideal selection of
wood....if you read the details of each type of red oak on the
website, you will see that. The "rustic" grade is the leftovers,
with knots, less-than-desireable grain, etc. Always a good learning
experience ...

Yep, that and few other stupid choices on my part turned this whole thing
into a big mess. So, for now, I am just going to slog my way through this
and chalk it up as an expensive and seemingly neverending learning
experience. Next time, prefinished hardwood for sure -- just install it and
walk out the door with nothing to finish. Plus, by buying unfinished wood,
and too low of a grade of wood to boot, I ended up with way more wasted wood
than I would have had with prefinished wood. Oh well.

Not a stupid choice at all...until one has a good amount of experience
they are not likely to realize there are "grades" of unfinished woods.
I'd be willing to bet the floor will look beautiful and very few people
will notice what you have concerns with about the appearance of the wood
grain. Red oak is still gorgeous stuff....hell, just advertise the
rental as "rustic red oak flooring throughout" and charge an extra
$100/month )

) You still have a good solid floor that will take lots
of wear and tear - unless there is a flood or animals toileting on
oak floors, it is hard to damage it. Done properly, it is also
pretty easy to maintain. Taking off shoes at the door will help ) I'd
take solid oak before pergo-type c=== any day.

I stripped oak kitchen cabinets for a friend once because I was out of
work and needed money. Only after I slathered on paint remover did I
realize the end panels of the cabinets were not solid oak like rest of
the cabinet...they were particle board with printed grain. I was
already on the verge of nervous breakdown and that almost put me over
the edge. I got out my art stuff and between wood stain and a few
brush strokes with oil paint I was able to fake the grain pretty
well. Not obvious. I also painted fake woodgrain on floor boards
for a doll house. If you have spots that really stick out like a
sore thumb, you can paint in - with a light touch - enough grain to
camouflage the spots before you do final finish.

I like the story about the cabinets and it almost putting you over the edge.
I know the feeling.

wrote:
....
A wood filler is for filling defects.

And the proper ones properly prepared and applied also for filling
porous grain in woods like oak to help prevent excessive stain takeup if
the stark contrast isn't the desired effect.

--

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:15:27 -0600, dpb wrote:

wrote:
...
A wood filler is for filling defects.

And the proper ones properly prepared and applied also for filling
porous grain in woods like oak to help prevent excessive stain takeup if
the stark contrast isn't the desired effect.

Pardon me for jumping in, the main reason I see usually stated is to
get a smoother surface, since the filled pores will not have "divots"
after the topcoat is applied. Sometimes people will actually tint the
filler to enhance the contrast. Not me, though.

wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
JayB wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain
absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?
I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but
I'll try it.

He said wood *FILLER*. One would assume that is what he means. Paste
wood filler.

A sealer - a different thing - might help depending on what it is.

A wood filler is for filling defects.

Apparently you are not familiar with paste wood filler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_filler

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
JayB wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain
absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?
I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but
I'll try it.
He said wood *FILLER*. One would assume that is what he means. Paste
wood filler.

A sealer - a different thing - might help depending on what it is.

A wood filler is for filling defects.

Apparently you are not familiar with paste wood filler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_filler


I've used wood filler to fill in rotted wood storm window frames. Tried
it on furniture, but the oak furniture I tried it on really didn't need
it....the finish, in two or three coats, filled the grain just fine.
The OP sounds like a relative newby, and getting wood filler in the
right color for an entire floor is not, IMO, a task for a newby.

wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
JayB wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain
absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?
I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but
I'll try it.
He said wood *FILLER*. One would assume that is what he means.
Paste wood filler.

A sealer - a different thing - might help depending on what it is.

A wood filler is for filling defects.

Apparently you are not familiar with paste wood filler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_filler


I've used wood filler to fill in rotted wood storm window frames.

Uhhh...OK. Didn't work very well, did it?

Tried it on furniture, but the oak furniture I tried it on really
didn't need it....the finish, in two or three coats, filled the grain
just fine. The OP sounds like a relative newby, and getting wood
filler in the right color for an entire floor is not, IMO, a task for
a newby.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
JayB wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:

What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain
absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?
I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but
I'll try it.
He said wood *FILLER*. One would assume that is what he means.
Paste wood filler.

A sealer - a different thing - might help depending on what it is.

A wood filler is for filling defects.
Apparently you are not familiar with paste wood filler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_filler

I've used wood filler to fill in rotted wood storm window frames.

Uhhh...OK. Didn't work very well, did it?

Not the same kind used for furniture, I'm sure, but it served the
purpose. My daughter has a nice little bungalow and it was obvious the
storms hadn't been used for years....standing on garage floor, the
bottoms of the worst ones had rotted away to the extent they were just
ragged along bottom edges. I stripped old alligatored paint from
exterior trim for most of the regular windows and repainted. Recaulked
around windows, of course. When it came time to consider the storms, I
figured that with careful handling the filler would make them fit well
enough to keep the weather out of the house ) Slapped on the wood
filler, repainted, reglazed some and put them up. My daughter replaced
all of her windows last year, and the storms were probably still up )

Tried it on furniture, but the oak furniture I tried it on really
didn't need it....the finish, in two or three coats, filled the grain
just fine. The OP sounds like a relative newby, and getting wood
filler in the right color for an entire floor is not, IMO, a task for
a newby.