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Default Case of the overgrown insert?


Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer fits
the saw opening. I grabbed an unused, though otherwise identical
insert, and it fits just like it was meant to. I ended up making
another dado insert, wasting a $20 blank. :-( These blanks were from
Woodcraft, BTW.
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"krw" wrote:

Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow
too
big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer
fits
the saw opening. I grabbed an unused, though otherwise identical
insert, and it fits just like it was meant to. I ended up making
another dado insert, wasting a $20 blank. :-( These blanks were
from
Woodcraft, BTW.


Don't have a clue, but why not spend a little time with a file or some
sandpaper and rework till it fits?

BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.

At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.

Lew



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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:28:08 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"krw" wrote:

Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow
too
big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer
fits
the saw opening. I grabbed an unused, though otherwise identical
insert, and it fits just like it was meant to. I ended up making
another dado insert, wasting a $20 blank. :-( These blanks were
from
Woodcraft, BTW.


Don't have a clue, but why not spend a little time with a file or some
sandpaper and rework till it fits?


The edge isn't just MDF. Not sure what it is but it's sorta rubbery,
I guess to keep it in the table. It seems like it's now at least a
1/16th too long.

BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.


They were on sale. They're now $24.95 in their catalog. ;-)

At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.


When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
than a table saw insert. Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
rather spend doing something else.
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On Nov 1, 8:39*pm, krw wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.


They were on sale. *They're now $24.95 in their catalog. *;-)

At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.


When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
than a table saw insert. *Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
rather spend doing something else. *


Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?

R
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On Nov 1, 8:49*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:39*pm, krw wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:


BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.


They were on sale. *They're now $24.95 in their catalog. *;-)


At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.


When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
than a table saw insert. *Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
rather spend doing something else. *


Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?

R


*wiping monitor*


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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:49:13 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
wrote:

On Nov 1, 8:39*pm, krw wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.


They were on sale. *They're now $24.95 in their catalog. *;-)

At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.


When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
than a table saw insert. *Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
rather spend doing something else. *


Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?


It certainly *DID* fit. It wouldn't have had the dado silhouette in
it if it hadn't. It's brother still fit.
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On Nov 1, 9:17*pm, krw wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:49:13 -0800 (PST), RicodJour



wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:39*pm, krw wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:


BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.


They were on sale. *They're now $24.95 in their catalog. *;-)


At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.


When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
than a table saw insert. *Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
rather spend doing something else. *


Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?


It certainly *DID* fit. *It wouldn't have had the dado silhouette in
it if it hadn't. *It's brother still fit. *


I don't understand. Making inserts is not a big deal and it doesn't
take a lot of time. A router, a template, zip zip zip. And there
wouldn't be any question of the thing growing or shrinking. Like Lew
said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. Five or
six at a time. What's that in store bought dollars?

In any event I have no idea what happened to your insert unless you
got it wet. Contact Woodgraft...errr, Woodcraft and express your
disappointment. They'll probably send you a new one.

R
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:48:40 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
wrote:

On Nov 1, 9:17*pm, krw wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:49:13 -0800 (PST), RicodJour



wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:39*pm, krw wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:


BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.


They were on sale. *They're now $24.95 in their catalog. *;-)


At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.


When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
than a table saw insert. *Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
rather spend doing something else. *


Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?


It certainly *DID* fit. *It wouldn't have had the dado silhouette in
it if it hadn't. *It's brother still fit. *


I don't understand. Making inserts is not a big deal and it doesn't
take a lot of time. A router, a template, zip zip zip. And there
wouldn't be any question of the thing growing or shrinking. Like Lew
said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. Five or
six at a time. What's that in store bought dollars?


Does the router template add the thickness adjustment screws? What's
an hour of my free time worth?

In any event I have no idea what happened to your insert unless you
got it wet. Contact Woodgraft...errr, Woodcraft and express your
disappointment. They'll probably send you a new one.


It is in the garage but hasn't been near any water. Good suggestion,
though. I'll send Woodcraft a note. I looked at it again this
evening (thought I might have gotten the tab hung up underneath, or
something) and yep, it's abut 1/16" long. The other fits in there
like it was supposed to. They've been sitting on the same shelf next
to each other since I last used the dado insert.

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On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:16:25 -0600, krw wrote:


Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer fits
the saw opening.


I'm guessing your tablesaw shrunk. That's what happens when you wash
it in hot water. Next time, use the cold setting.
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:48:40 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
wrote:

said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. Five or
six at a time. What's that in store bought dollars?


Just out of interest's sake, what's the popular method for getting
those inserts to sit level with the tablesaw top? My danged tablesaw
insert cavity has a certain depth that defies my finding some wood or
other material making insert construction easy.


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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:51:22 -0500, Greg wrote:

I use 1/2" ply and thread 4 allen head set-screws into it over each
saw table leveling boss.


Just slightly undersized holes and the allen screws create their own
thread as they're inserted?

My table saw leveling bosses are about 3/8" in depth. I suppose that
would be enough thread for allen screws to grab.
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On Nov 2, 7:31*am, "Leon" wrote:
"Greg G." wrote in message
said:


I use 1/2" ply and thread 4 allen head set-screws into it over each
saw table leveling boss. A 3/8" brass rod out the rear hooks the
sawtop lip to prevent the blade from lifting the insert and throwing
it through the wall. Inexpensive saws may not have leveling bosses
(i.e. Delta 32-600 and some Craftsman).


I simply used 4, 3/8" long #6 flat head screws. *They will screw flush on
the bottom side if needed. and no pre drilling needed. *Because they never
needed to be readjusted being on the bottom side is not really a draw back.


I don't use anything but a zero clearance insert I made and don't find
this to be a problem. I epoxied washers in place. There's no stress
on 'em - just trying to keep them from sliding. After that the
inserts are all uniform.

R
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Lew Hodgett wrote:
"krw" wrote:

Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow
too
big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer
fits
the saw opening. I grabbed an unused, though otherwise identical
insert, and it fits just like it was meant to. I ended up making
another dado insert, wasting a $20 blank. :-( These blanks were
from
Woodcraft, BTW.


Don't have a clue, but why not spend a little time with a file or some
sandpaper and rework till it fits?

BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.

At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.

Lew


I'm with you.

I browse through the wood working catalogs and am amazed by the number of
things for sale - and which, apparently, are frequently purchased - which
anyone could easily make for themselves.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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krw wrote:
Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table?



Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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On Nov 2, 12:51*am, Greg wrote:
said:

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:48:40 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
wrote:


said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. *Five or
six at a time. *What's that in store bought dollars?


Just out of interest's sake, what's the popular method for getting
those inserts to sit level with the tablesaw top? My danged tablesaw
insert cavity has a certain depth that defies my finding some wood or
other material making insert construction easy.


I use 1/2" ply and thread 4 allen head set-screws into it over each
saw table leveling boss. A 3/8" brass rod out the rear hooks the
sawtop lip to prevent the blade from lifting the insert and throwing
it through the wall. Inexpensive saws may not have leveling bosses
(i.e. Delta 32-600 and some Craftsman).


I do the same except with 1/2" Lexan.

Luigi

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On Nov 2, 9:22*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
krw wrote:
Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table?


Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? *


Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?

R
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On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:57:29 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
wrote:

Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? ?


Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?


Think "pucker" as most holes do when it gets cold.


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On Nov 2, 11:57*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 9:22*am, "dadiOH" wrote:

krw wrote:
Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table?


Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? *


Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?

R


nope
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dadiOH wrote:
I'm with you.

I browse through the wood working catalogs and am amazed by the number of
things for sale - and which, apparently, are frequently purchased - which
anyone could easily make for themselves.


I'm with both of you.

I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
jigs they have.

I can find arguments for both sides, but I still wonder.


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-MIKE-

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-MIKE- wrote:

I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
jigs they have.


I think there might be a stronger correlation between number of
shop-made jigs and size of the tool budget.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
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Morris Dovey wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
jigs they have.


I think there might be a stronger correlation between number of
shop-made jigs and size of the tool budget.


That's probably much more accurate. :-)

Personally, if time isn't the first motivator (as in, I don't have even
ten minutes to go buy this thing), price is.

Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I looked
on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
"HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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--
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"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Morris Dovey wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill
level/experience of
a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store
bought)
jigs they have.


I think there might be a stronger correlation between number of
shop-made jigs and size of the tool budget.


That's probably much more accurate. :-)

Personally, if time isn't the first motivator (as in, I don't
have even
ten minutes to go buy this thing), price is.

Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I
looked
on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
"HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in
life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply


I never tossed out a jig, unless it was just cobbled together for
a single use and then taken back apart and tossed back in the
bucket with other pieces. If the jig was something I would reuse,
such as one I built for over the table sander to bevel the edges
of coasters, then it was stored on a shelf for reuse. Those are
the ones that built up over the years.

--
Nonny

Have you ever wondered if the bills
in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
Have a nice day ..





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On Nov 2, 9:57*am, -MIKE- wrote:
dadiOH wrote:


I browse through the wood working catalogs and am amazed by the number of
things for sale - and which, apparently, are frequently purchased - which
anyone could easily make for themselves.


I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
jigs they have.


It's the custom-kitchen effect! When a task intimidates (like,
cooking
for a critical audience), it's easy to put it off by claiming one
needs
a six-burner gas stove, or marble countertops, or somesuch.

So, the building trades grow a tumor that caters to high-end kitchen
afficianados. The customers don't have to perform in the cookroom
until the renovations are "complete" ... and completion, magically,
doesn't happen quickly. The custom-kitchen builder caters to his
audience by working slowly and avoiding completion (but the
check-cashing part has to be quick and final, of course).

If woodwork isn't intimidating, you get a knife and a block of wood,
and have at it. Then you add chisels and a bench, and saws are
too useful to do without. The unintimidated woodworker always
has a knife nearby. He's comfortable watching Roy Underhill,
but could learn a lot from Norm Abram.

The intimidated woodworker needs an extra horsepower and
deeper bandsaw throat, and often treats the wood as if it
was homogeneous (he didn't do a lot of knife work, so doesn't
completely understand grain). He's comfortable watching
Norm, but could learn a lot from Roy.
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whit3rd wrote:
If woodwork isn't intimidating, you get a knife and a block of wood,
and have at it. Then you add chisels and a bench, and saws are
too useful to do without. The unintimidated woodworker always
has a knife nearby. He's comfortable watching Roy Underhill,
but could learn a lot from Norm Abram.

The intimidated woodworker needs an extra horsepower and
deeper bandsaw throat, and often treats the wood as if it
was homogeneous (he didn't do a lot of knife work, so doesn't
completely understand grain). He's comfortable watching
Norm, but could learn a lot from Roy.


Good stuff.

When I look back on the stuff I've made using inferior and fewer tools,
I feel some pride and accomplishment for having done such a good job
manually and using some ingenuity instead of technology.

But I also like the sense of "being there" I get from having and using a
great tool.
One appreciates having nice tools and what they do for you much more,
when one has had to do it with less.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

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On Nov 2, 2:48*pm, -MIKE- wrote:


But I also like the sense of "being there" I get from having and using a
great tool.
One appreciates having nice tools and what they do for you much more,
when one has had to do it with less.


I like a tool that dims the lights at turn-on....of the whole town.

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Robatoy wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:48 pm, -MIKE- wrote:

But I also like the sense of "being there" I get from having and using a
great tool.
One appreciates having nice tools and what they do for you much more,
when one has had to do it with less.


I like a tool that dims the lights at turn-on....of the whole town.


Nice.

"Clark Griswold Woodworking"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

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On Nov 2, 12:51*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Nov 2, 11:57*am, RicodJour wrote:

On Nov 2, 9:22*am, "dadiOH" wrote:


krw wrote:
Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table?


Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? *


Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?



nope


You mean the air within the insert perimeter is shrinking with the
cold, and the metal around it is expanding to make up the difference?

R


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"whit3rd" wrote in message
...
On Nov 2, 9:57 am, -MIKE- wrote:
dadiOH wrote:


I browse through the wood working catalogs and am amazed by the number
of
things for sale - and which, apparently, are frequently purchased -
which
anyone could easily make for themselves.


I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
jigs they have.



That's reminds me of a pretty big mallet that I have that was made from a
wooden
hammer handle and a branch of a tree (directly). The unidentifiable person
who made it probably
did not have a Rochler nearby, but clearly knew what they were doing. It
looks like a museum piece to me.
When my shop is finished I may hang it on the wall for inspiration.
If anyone would care to see it, I'll take and post a pic.

Bill


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Nonny wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I looked
on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
"HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."


I never tossed out a jig, unless it was just cobbled together for a
single use and then taken back apart and tossed back in the bucket with
other pieces. If the jig was something I would reuse, such as one I
built for over the table sander to bevel the edges of coasters, then it
was stored on a shelf for reuse. Those are the ones that built up over
the years.


Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of why the
hell you built it in the first place? I can't think of how many times
I've pulled some old jig out of storage and have no earthly clue what I
used it for... :-)

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
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Steve Turner wrote:
Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of why the
hell you built it in the first place? I can't think of how many times
I've pulled some old jig out of storage and have no earthly clue what I
used it for... :-)


LMAO!!
I started laughing before I finished reading your first sentence!

Bought the t-shirt. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
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If anyone would care to see it, I'll take and post a pic.

Bill


Do you have to even ask? sheesh. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
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On Nov 2, 3:23*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:51*pm, Robatoy wrote:

On Nov 2, 11:57*am, RicodJour wrote:


On Nov 2, 9:22*am, "dadiOH" wrote:


krw wrote:
Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table?


Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? *


Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?


nope


You mean the air within the insert perimeter is shrinking with the
cold, and the metal around it is expanding to make up the difference?

R


The metal wouldn't be expanding.


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On Nov 2, 3:40*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Nov 2, 3:23*pm, RicodJour wrote:



On Nov 2, 12:51*pm, Robatoy wrote:


On Nov 2, 11:57*am, RicodJour wrote:


On Nov 2, 9:22*am, "dadiOH" wrote:


krw wrote:
Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table?


Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? *


Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?


nope


You mean the air within the insert perimeter is shrinking with the
cold, and the metal around it is expanding to make up the difference?



The metal wouldn't be expanding.


Exactly my point. So if all of the metal around the hole is
shrinking, why is the hole getting smaller? The shrinkage takes place
in the cast iron, right?

R
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RicodJour wrote:

Exactly my point. So if all of the metal around the hole is
shrinking, why is the hole getting smaller? The shrinkage takes place
in the cast iron, right?


Yup. As the cast iron shrinks, every atom gets a little closer to every
other atom - and that includes the atoms around (and on opposite sides
of) the hole.

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DeSoto, Iowa USA
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Steve Turner wrote:
Nonny wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I looked
on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
"HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."


I never tossed out a jig, unless it was just cobbled together for a
single use and then taken back apart and tossed back in the bucket
with other pieces. If the jig was something I would reuse, such as
one I built for over the table sander to bevel the edges of
coasters, then it was stored on a shelf for reuse. Those are the
ones that built up over the years.


Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of why the
hell you built it in the first place?


Me, me...I do

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dadiOH
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RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 9:22 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
krw wrote:
Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table?

Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold?


Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?


Like so you mean we should be cooling those bearings to help get them
off a shaft like getting bigger, like...

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RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 9:22 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
krw wrote:
Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow
too big to fit in the table?


Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold?


Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?

R


Beats me. I had a brass ring that got smaller when I heated it. Or did it
get bigger? No, smaller...I wanted it bigger and it wouldn't do what I
wanted. My brass and OP's saw are in the twilight zone

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