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#1
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Artist or Engineer
Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. I think I can draw better than people who can't. ; ) My dad was a civil engineer who made copious plans for "everything". His buddy was a civil engineer who made projects (mostly "rustic stuff") by the seat of this pants! I may try SketchUp (motivated by the recent "How To Design Furniture" publication by Taunton Press). I didn't think the 4-page introduction to the software was detailed enough--but it was nice to learn about the (free) software. I may give it a try it in a few minutes...just to see whether it may be worthwhile for me. I can hardly wait gulp! ; ) Bill |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
"Bill" wrote in message ... Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. I think I can draw better than people who can't. ; ) My dad was a civil engineer who made copious plans for "everything". His buddy was a civil engineer who made projects (mostly "rustic stuff") by the seat of this pants! I may try SketchUp (motivated by the recent "How To Design Furniture" publication by Taunton Press). I didn't think the 4-page introduction to the software was detailed enough--but it was nice to learn about the (free) software. I may give it a try it in a few minutes...just to see whether it may be worthwhile for me. I can hardly wait gulp! ; ) Bill Bill if you would like to see what you can do with Sketchup I can send you a file of the bedroom furniture towers that I designed and posted pictures of on a.p.b.w. I have had formal drafting instruction when drawings were only done on a drawing board. I never perused that profession but kept an interest in it to help with my building projects. I have been using a CAD program of some type since 1986. Up until last year I had used AutoCAD LT since 1997. Sketchup is it for me now and I will probably never go back to the more expensive CAD programs. The investment to learn Sketchup is well worth your time and that time will be less if you have any drafting back ground. Suddenly with Sketchup you can draw in perspective 3D with very little effort with or with out CAD experience. One thing that is critical to remember is that you want to draw all of your 3D parts separately and then convert them into components. If you simply draw lines and connect them they are very difficult to separate. If the part you draw is a component you can easily move it and assemble your project much like an erector set. There are a few of us here that will be glad to help you with any questions that you may have about Sketchup. Basically for wood working this is going to be the easiest and most competent program to design your projects. |
#3
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Artist or Engineer
"Leon" wrote in message ... Basically for wood working this is going to be the easiest and most competent program to design your projects. Way cool program. I posted my first result with SketchUp at alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking, as Subject: First SketchUp (pdf file), in case anyone wants to see what you can do with it in an hour or so... I have a LOT to learn, but the potential is evident... Bill |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
Bill wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message ... Basically for wood working this is going to be the easiest and most competent program to design your projects. Way cool program. I posted my first result with SketchUp at alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking, as Subject: First SketchUp (pdf file), in case anyone wants to see what you can do with it in an hour or so... I have a LOT to learn, but the potential is evident... Bill wrote: pdf attached also posted on abpw Excellent first effort ... take to heart what Leon said on the wRec about making component parts ... the secret to using SU effectively for woodworking projects. With regard to whether your proclivity is "artist" or "engineer", oftentimes you have no choice. Attached is a pdf of the SketchUp file I did last year during the planning stages of the South wall of a kitchen, and a photo of that recently finished South wall, 8 months later. http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/southwall.pdf http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/southwall.jpg A good illustration of what you can do with the free program, particularly when you have a client involved in the design and they actually end up getting what they saw during the planning stage. Makes for a happy client, and good referrals .... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#5
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Artist or Engineer
Attached is a pdf of the SketchUp file I did last year during the planning stages of the South wall of a kitchen, and a photo of that recently finished South wall, 8 months later. http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/southwall.pdf http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/southwall.jpg A good illustration of what you can do with the free program, particularly when you have a client involved in the design and they actually end up getting what they saw during the planning stage. Makes for a happy client, and good referrals .... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) That is darn impressive. Thank you for sharing it. I saved a copy to show my wife so she can see that I'm not just screwing around! ; ) Bill |
#6
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Artist or Engineer
"Bill" wrote That is darn impressive. Thank you for sharing it. I saved a copy to show my wife so she can see that I'm not just screwing around! ; ) Let us know if that works. |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
Bill wrote:
Attached is a pdf of the SketchUp file I did last year during the planning stages of the South wall of a kitchen, and a photo of that recently finished South wall, 8 months later. http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/southwall.pdf http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/southwall.jpg A good illustration of what you can do with the free program, particularly when you have a client involved in the design and they actually end up getting what they saw during the planning stage. Makes for a happy client, and good referrals .... www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) That is darn impressive. Thank you for sharing it. I saved a copy to show my wife so she can see that I'm not just screwing around! ; ) Hell, if you want, I'll send you the entire kitchen SketchUp file ... it is about 4.4MB, a heavy lift for many mail servers. I also posted links in the past to some "dynamic component", kitchen wall and base cabinets that you can change the dimensions of ... real handy when fitting cabinets into a pre-existing space. I'll cehck my server to see if they're still on line. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#8
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Artist or Engineer
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:13:18 -0500, the infamous Swingman
scrawled the following: Bill wrote: "Leon" wrote in message ... Basically for wood working this is going to be the easiest and most competent program to design your projects. Way cool program. I posted my first result with SketchUp at alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking, as Subject: First SketchUp (pdf file), in case anyone wants to see what you can do with it in an hour or so... I have a LOT to learn, but the potential is evident... Bill wrote: pdf attached also posted on abpw Excellent first effort ... take to heart what Leon said on the wRec about making component parts ... the secret to using SU effectively for woodworking projects. With regard to whether your proclivity is "artist" or "engineer", oftentimes you have no choice. Attached is a pdf of the SketchUp file I did last year during the planning stages of the South wall of a kitchen, and a photo of that recently finished South wall, 8 months later. http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/southwall.pdf http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/southwall.jpg Cool. Question: Is there lighting above the hutch and oven cabinets? Else why is there a gap there. It looks really odd to me. Ever wish you'd gone with fumed QS white oak instead? That's the kitchen which would make me drool. It's only "very nice" as is. A good illustration of what you can do with the free program, particularly when you have a client involved in the design and they actually end up getting what they saw during the planning stage. Makes for a happy client, and good referrals .... Indeed. Nice segue to reality there, pard. -- "Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken --- |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
"Bill" wrote in message ... "Leon" wrote in message ... Basically for wood working this is going to be the easiest and most competent program to design your projects. Way cool program. I added "materials" today... light wood finish. Neat-o! Later I went to it's "3-D Warehouse" to see if there was a vise.... Let's just say lots of folks got there before me. Pretty cool. http://sketchup.google.com if you haven't tried it yet. Start by watching some tutorials. It's a cools video game...I haven't yet figured out how to position the chair I downloaded (it's seems to want to live at the origin) .... Bill |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
"Bill" wrote in message ... I added "materials" today... light wood finish. Neat-o! Later I went to it's "3-D Warehouse" to see if there was a vise.... Let's just say lots of folks got there before me. Pretty cool. http://sketchup.google.com if you haven't tried it yet. Start by watching some tutorials. It's a cools video game...I haven't yet figured out how to position the chair I downloaded (it's seems to want to live at the origin) Typically when you download a file it simply follows your cursor around until you click some where on the screen, then you can move it to where ever you want. If it seems to want to be some where in particular it could be that it has a Google Earth location. That may want to place it in a specific location. I'm guessing here. Try down loading something else. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
Bill wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message ... "Leon" wrote in message ... Basically for wood working this is going to be the easiest and most competent program to design your projects. Way cool program. I added "materials" today... light wood finish. Neat-o! Later I went to it's "3-D Warehouse" to see if there was a vise.... Let's just say lots of folks got there before me. Pretty cool. http://sketchup.google.com if you haven't tried it yet. Start by watching some tutorials. It's a cools video game...I haven't yet figured out how to position the chair I downloaded (it's seems to want to live at the origin) .... Bill I downloaded the videos that Google puts out at http://sketchup.google.com/training/videos.html I found them invaluable in introducing me to some of the power of the program. As Leon and Swingman pointed out, one of the most important early tricks is to make components early and often. It saves a ton of time later on down the road. Tanus |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
If you make things that work - and don't worry about
what it looks like - you're probably an engineer. If you make things that look pleasing to the eye or hand - but it doesn't actually "do" anything - you're probably and artist. If you THINK you make things that work and THINK you make things that are pleasing to the eye neither of which may actually be true - you're probably an architect. Fortunately, somewhere, there's a craftsman who can add or fix what each of the others overlooked - or ignored. |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
On Oct 6, 10:12*pm, charlieb wrote:
If you make things that work - and don't worry about what it looks like - you're probably an engineer. If you make things that look pleasing to the eye or hand - but it doesn't actually "do" anything - you're probably and artist. If you THINK you make things that work and THINK you make things that are pleasing to the eye neither of which may actually be true - you're probably an architect. Fortunately, somewhere, there's a craftsman who can add or fix what each of the others overlooked - or ignored. We need a like button on the wreck, just like in Facebook. Luigi |
#14
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Artist or Engineer
Luigi Zanasi wrote:
We need a like button on the wreck, just like in Facebook. Like! g BTW, you're well hidden on FB. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
On Oct 7, 9:50Â*am, Swingman wrote:
Luigi Zanasi wrote: We need a like button on the wreck, just like in Facebook. Like! Â*g BTW, you're well hidden on FB. Strange, I just looked up my privacy settings and everyone should be able to see me. And I am the only Luigi Zanasi on FB, "Luigi Dena Ch'Å Zanasi", which also includes my Kaska First Nations Name, given to me by an elder a few months ago. I do have two other former? wreckers as friends (O'Deen & Groggy). Luigi |
#16
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Artist or Engineer
Luigi Zanasi wrote:
On Oct 7, 9:50 am, Swingman wrote: Luigi Zanasi wrote: We need a like button on the wreck, just like in Facebook. Like! g BTW, you're well hidden on FB. Strange, I just looked up my privacy settings and everyone should be able to see me. And I am the only Luigi Zanasi on FB, "Luigi Dena Ch'Å Zanasi", which also includes my Kaska First Nations Name, given to me by an elder a few months ago. I do have two other former? wreckers as friends (O'Deen & Groggy). Luigi Operator problem on this end ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#17
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Artist or Engineer
charlieb wrote:
If you THINK you make things that work and THINK you make things that are pleasing to the eye neither of which may actually be true - you're probably an architect. You just nailed it, bubba!!! -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
"Swingman" wrote in message ... charlieb wrote: If you THINK you make things that work and THINK you make things that are pleasing to the eye neither of which may actually be true - you're probably an architect. You just nailed it, bubba!!! You meat me to it Swingman! LOL |
#19
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Artist or Engineer
charlieb wrote:
If you make things that work - and don't worry about what it looks like - you're probably an engineer. If you make things that look pleasing to the eye or hand - but it doesn't actually "do" anything - you're probably and artist. If you THINK you make things that work and THINK you make things that are pleasing to the eye neither of which may actually be true - you're probably an architect. Fortunately, somewhere, there's a craftsman who can add or fix what each of the others overlooked - or ignored. But how does Kelly Johnson fit into all of this? The SR-71 works fine as a piece of abstract art and half a century later is still the fastest airplane in the world, so it clearly works. |
#20
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Artist or Engineer
For a rule to be a good rule - it has to have
at least one exception. Kelly Johnson, who used Seymore Butts on his secret missions airline tickets, is suely an exception to the rules. Anyone whose job is in The Skunk Works HAS to be an exception - to probably EVERY rule. |
#21
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Artist or Engineer
On Oct 8, 4:34*pm, charlieb wrote:
For a rule to be a good rule - it has to have at least one exception. *Kelly Johnson, who used Seymore Butts on his secret missions airline tickets, is suely an exception to the rules. Anyone whose job is in The Skunk Works HAS to be an exception - to probably EVERY rule. Because many are aliens. Roswell offspring. |
#22
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Artist or Engineer
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:12:57 -0700, the infamous charlieb
scrawled the following: If you make things that work - and don't worry about what it looks like - you're probably an engineer. If you make things that look pleasing to the eye or hand - but it doesn't actually "do" anything - you're probably and artist. If you THINK you make things that work and THINK you make things that are pleasing to the eye neither of which may actually be true - you're probably an architect. Fortunately, somewhere, there's a craftsman who can add or fix what each of the others overlooked - or ignored. Two Master Pointes, charlie. giggle -- "Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken --- |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
Bill wrote:
Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. I think there is a mix. Numerous like the "doing" and planning, others groove on the result. I like the result. _____________ More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. A. Something simple = no plans B. Something more complex = "plans" 1. Get a mental picture of desired result. 2. Get yellow legal pad 3. Doodle the parts, not to scale, and dimension same 4. Doodle as necessary how the parts will attach to each other 5. Cut parts 6. Join parts -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#24
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Artist or Engineer
dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote: Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. I think there is a mix. Numerous like the "doing" and planning, others groove on the result. I like the result. _____________ More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. A. Something simple = no plans B. Something more complex = "plans" 1. Get a mental picture of desired result. 2. Get yellow legal pad 3. Doodle the parts, not to scale, and dimension same 4. Doodle as necessary how the parts will attach to each other 5. Cut parts 6. Join parts As craftsmen, we all know that the best tools fit well and easily in the hand. Sketchup is in this category. After a surprisingly short learning curve, the tool becomes transparent. Compellingly simple is a good description. Many of us have found that we can replace your step 2 above with "Start SketchUp", and also delete the "not to scale" part. Where the pencil was once suitably facile at doodling, I find now that it fails by echoing too closely my faulty imagination and distorted sense of proportions. (At the same time, "compellingly simple" quickly becomes "frustratingly simplistic" when you start to wander far from the blocky shapes that works so well. Which is just as welll. Much of what I would undertake to build in the woodshop are of blocky shapes.) |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
"MikeWhy" wrote in message ... dadiOH wrote: Bill wrote: Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. I think there is a mix. Numerous like the "doing" and planning, others groove on the result. I like the result. _____________ More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. A. Something simple = no plans B. Something more complex = "plans" 1. Get a mental picture of desired result. 2. Get yellow legal pad 3. Doodle the parts, not to scale, and dimension same 4. Doodle as necessary how the parts will attach to each other 5. Cut parts 6. Join parts As craftsmen, we all know that the best tools fit well and easily in the hand. Sketchup is in this category. After a surprisingly short learning curve, the tool becomes transparent. Compellingly simple is a good description. Many of us have found that we can replace your step 2 above with "Start SketchUp", and also delete the "not to scale" part. Where the pencil was once suitably facile at doodling, I find now that it fails by echoing too closely my faulty imagination and distorted sense of proportions. (At the same time, "compellingly simple" quickly becomes "frustratingly simplistic" when you start to wander far from the blocky shapes that works so well. Which is just as welll. Much of what I would undertake to build in the woodshop are of blocky shapes.) I'm learning SketchUp this week and am impressed. However, I can't help but think about what industrialization (and manufacturing) did to furniture design. Is SketchUp users going to encourage "blocky shapes" on its clients? That is, may the likes of SketchUp induce a subtle affect much like that of industrialization? Just a thought. Bill |
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
Bill wrote:
"MikeWhy" wrote in message ... dadiOH wrote: Bill wrote: Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. I think there is a mix. Numerous like the "doing" and planning, others groove on the result. I like the result. _____________ More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. A. Something simple = no plans B. Something more complex = "plans" 1. Get a mental picture of desired result. 2. Get yellow legal pad 3. Doodle the parts, not to scale, and dimension same 4. Doodle as necessary how the parts will attach to each other 5. Cut parts 6. Join parts As craftsmen, we all know that the best tools fit well and easily in the hand. Sketchup is in this category. After a surprisingly short learning curve, the tool becomes transparent. Compellingly simple is a good description. Many of us have found that we can replace your step 2 above with "Start SketchUp", and also delete the "not to scale" part. Where the pencil was once suitably facile at doodling, I find now that it fails by echoing too closely my faulty imagination and distorted sense of proportions. (At the same time, "compellingly simple" quickly becomes "frustratingly simplistic" when you start to wander far from the blocky shapes that works so well. Which is just as welll. Much of what I would undertake to build in the woodshop are of blocky shapes.) I'm learning SketchUp this week and am impressed. However, I can't help but think about what industrialization (and manufacturing) did to furniture design. Is SketchUp users going to encourage "blocky shapes" on its clients? That is, may the likes of SketchUp induce a subtle affect much like that of industrialization? Just a thought. There's little danger, IMHO, that your taste in design will suddenly change to match the tool. If that turns out to be the case, however, you will have answered your own question: the engineer will accept the limitations of his tools and environment while the artist will hold true to the ideal and its exprssion. I was cutting 4-square blocky shapes on the tablesaw, planer, and jointer long before Sketchup imposed its blocky world. If your taste is toward free flowing faired curves inspired by and gracefully echoing the figure and grain of carefully selected timbers, I doubt any design tool can replace the touchy-feely eyeballs- and hands-on approach. Sketchup or other CAD can still be the better pencil by overlaying a photo of the grain on the part, but I would be very surprised to find that person comfortable with an elaborate design process. I think that's the short answer: Sketchup appeals to the engineer within. We are satisfied with the design when the artist-within cringes only minimally at the outcome. The common aesthetic of furniture and furnishings is dominated by straight lines. I don't find this to be at odds with an artistic bent. Efficient and appropriate use of material is itself an art. |
#27
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Artist or Engineer
Bill wrote:
I'm learning SketchUp this week and am impressed. However, I can't help but think about what industrialization (and manufacturing) did to furniture design. Is SketchUp users going to encourage "blocky shapes" on its clients? As with any tool, only to the neophyte. "Tools" certainly do influence the outcome of specific tasks, and therefore influence the collection of tasks that make up a piece. "Materials" do the same, arguably to an even greater extent. That said, it is the artistry with which both are wielded that takes a project out of the ordinary ... take a look at some Michelangelo for an example. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Artist or Engineer
"Swingman" wrote in message
... Bill wrote: I'm learning SketchUp this week and am impressed. However, I can't help but think about what industrialization (and manufacturing) did to furniture design. Is SketchUp users going to encourage "blocky shapes" on its clients? As with any tool, only to the neophyte. "Tools" certainly do influence the outcome of specific tasks, and therefore influence the collection of tasks that make up a piece. "Materials" do the same, arguably to an even greater extent. That said, it is the artistry with which both are wielded that takes a project out of the ordinary ... take a look at some Michelangelo for an example. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) He did that with SketchUp? Wow! ; ) |
#29
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Artist or Engineer
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 08:03:02 -0400, the infamous "dadiOH"
scrawled the following: Bill wrote: Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. I think there is a mix. Numerous like the "doing" and planning, others groove on the result. I like the result. I'm a little of both, with no formal training in either, 'less you count the architectural drawing class I had in 8th grade. More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. A. Something simple = no plans B. Something more complex = "plans" 1. Get a mental picture of desired result. 2. Get yellow legal pad 3. Doodle the parts, not to scale, and dimension same 4. Doodle as necessary how the parts will attach to each other 5. Cut parts 6. Join parts Ooh, Ooh! waving hands That's me, too! -- "Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken --- |
#30
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Artist or Engineer
"Bill" wrote in message
... Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. I think I can draw better than people who can't. ; ) My dad was a civil engineer who made copious plans for "everything". His buddy was a civil engineer who made projects (mostly "rustic stuff") by the seat of this pants! I may try SketchUp (motivated by the recent "How To Design Furniture" publication by Taunton Press). I didn't think the 4-page introduction to the software was detailed enough--but it was nice to learn about the (free) software. I may give it a try it in a few minutes...just to see whether it may be worthwhile for me. I can hardly wait gulp! ; ) I am neither, my method of building is to work out a design mentally and when I think I have all the major points worked out in my head, I start cutting and assembling. The details just seem to work their self out as I go along. I usually pick one or two functions of the piece at hand and work out the sizing and proportions from there, this works great for free standing furniture. I tend to lean toward the utilitarian side and the designs aren't overly complex to begin with. My method of working has it downside of course, it will fail miserably with kitchen cabinets, DAMHIKT. There are places where planning and drawing it out is essential to success. Even on small run production items I will build one to the point of dry assembly, knock it down and then make my patterns and jigs. I dislike repetitive work, after about ten of something it quits being fun and becomes labor and I avoid this kind of work unless I'm trying to make a few quick $. I have a love hate relationship with sketchup(damn does anyone know how to turn off the snap to midpoint), but the hate part is lessening the more I learn about SU, Goodluck. basilisk |
#31
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Artist or Engineer
"Bill" wrote in message
... Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. I think I can draw better than people who can't. ; ) My dad was a civil engineer who made copious plans for "everything". His buddy was a civil engineer who made projects (mostly "rustic stuff") by the seat of this pants! I may try SketchUp (motivated by the recent "How To Design Furniture" publication by Taunton Press). I didn't think the 4-page introduction to the software was detailed enough--but it was nice to learn about the (free) software. I may give it a try it in a few minutes...just to see whether it may be worthwhile for me. I can hardly wait gulp! ; ) Bill Neither artist nor engineer. Ham-fisted amateur would be close to the truth. My growing up years were spent on a farm, - we were taught to use whatever we had available to construct something we needed, whether it be from wood or steel. Function took precedence over form. Still does for me. I think those early years helped me to attain the ability to visualise a number of ways to construct things with regard to what I have at hand, - ultimately selecting one and building it. I have never drawn up plans for anything. Doubtless there are those who would say that the appearance of my work makes that quite apparent : ) |
#32
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Artist or Engineer
litteratuer wrote:
Neither artist nor engineer. Ham-fisted amateur would be close to the truth. My growing up years were spent on a farm, - we were taught to use whatever we had available to construct something we needed, whether it be from wood or steel. Function took precedence over form. Still does for me. I think those early years helped me to attain the ability to visualise a number of ways to construct things with regard to what I have at hand, - ultimately selecting one and building it. I have never drawn up plans for anything. Doubtless there are those who would say that the appearance of my work makes that quite apparent : ) You wouldn't by chance be a Red Green fan, would you? :-) -- "Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#33
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Artist or Engineer
Steve Turner wrote:
litteratuer wrote: Neither artist nor engineer. Ham-fisted amateur would be close to the truth. My growing up years were spent on a farm, - we were taught to use whatever we had available to construct something we needed, whether it be from wood or steel. Function took precedence over form. Still does for me. I think those early years helped me to attain the ability to visualise a number of ways to construct things with regard to what I have at hand, - ultimately selecting one and building it. I have never drawn up plans for anything. Doubtless there are those who would say that the appearance of my work makes that quite apparent : ) You wouldn't by chance be a Red Green fan, would you? :-) He didn't mention duct tape... - Doug |
#34
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Artist or Engineer
"Steve Turner" wrote in message
... litteratuer wrote: Neither artist nor engineer. Ham-fisted amateur would be close to the truth. My growing up years were spent on a farm, - we were taught to use whatever we had available to construct something we needed, whether it be from wood or steel. Function took precedence over form. Still does for me. I think those early years helped me to attain the ability to visualise a number of ways to construct things with regard to what I have at hand, - ultimately selecting one and building it. I have never drawn up plans for anything. Doubtless there are those who would say that the appearance of my work makes that quite apparent : ) You wouldn't by chance be a Red Green fan, would you? :-) Too high tech for me ; ) (Had to look it up ...... I'm on the other side of the globe) |
#35
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Artist or Engineer
Bill:
I was a trained draftsman in a previous life so I tend to plan most projects to a certain extent. When I say "draftsman" I was trained at a drafting table using drafting instruments of the day. I did get some CAD training in later years but moved into some writing and management jobs before I got a chance to use the CAD tools much. Planning includes some sort of graphic representation of the project and a list of materials. I currently keep some of my old drafting tools near a small drafting table in the basement; and some of the tools are in my workshop. Smaller projects are planned on a clipboard in the shop. As projects become more complex, I resort to the drafting equipment. Instead of vellum or mylar drawings I usually do a scaled and fairly detailed layout or "shop sketch" on a sheet of 24" or 30" poster board which is cheap and durable when I hang it on the wall of the shop. I am artistic by nature but art and drafting are two different disciplines. I sometimes say I do a half-a**'ed job at both. When a board drawn shop sketch gets to the shop I refer to it often, and modify it as needed. Sometimes the modifications reflect my artistic side; sometimes I'm fixing screw-ups. Had I come along a few years later, I would probably be using Sketch Up or a CAD tool of some kind. While I consider CAD pretty interesting, I would rather be using my time building, not learning software. Contrary to some people's belief, a trained board draftsman can put lines on paper (and move them) pretty fast. In my earlier life we made a lot of design changes on a change order pad while working with an aircraft technician in the hangar. Also, I would say that about 50-70% of my projects get planned on the clipboard. To summarize: planning to some level is essential to successful projects. But don't let the planning methods override your woodworking creativity. Visualize, think, sketch, make sawdust RonB |
#36
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Artist or Engineer
If you use a pink hammer you're probably an artist.
LdB Bill wrote: Are most woodworkers artists or engineers |
#37
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Artist or Engineer
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:43:05 -0400, "Bill"
wrote: Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. I think I can draw better than people who can't. ; ) My dad was a civil engineer who made copious plans for "everything". His buddy was a civil engineer who made projects (mostly "rustic stuff") by the seat of this pants! For some the planning and drawing portion of the project is an enjoyable endeavor itself or at least part of the process as a whole, for others it's a means to an end. I'm definitely more on the artist side of things, even though I studied to be an engineer and was terrible in art classes. I'll do a drawing in sketchup to help me visualize, because I can think in 2D easily enough but I have a harder time keeping everything straight in 3D. But I don't model everything, just enough so that I have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done, and where I can start and how much I can do that has to be done regardless of what comes next, and then the saw dust starts to fly. Then I have something tangible to work with along with my partial drawing. I like going into the shop without knowing all the answers, so that I'm free to make changes as I go along. -Kevin |
#38
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Artist or Engineer
On Oct 6, 9:43*pm, "Bill" wrote:
Are most woodworkers artists or engineers, or neither, or both? For the sake of narrowing the field, feel free to assume the population of this forum. More than ever, I keep getting inclinations that I should be drawing and drafting. I think I can draw better than people who can't. *; ) * My dad was a civil engineer who made copious plans for "everything". *His buddy was *a civil engineer who made projects (mostly "rustic stuff") by the seat of this pants! I may try SketchUp (motivated by the recent "How To Design Furniture" publication by Taunton Press). I didn't think the 4-page introduction to the software was detailed enough--but it was nice to learn about the (free) software. *I may give it a try it in a few minutes...just to see whether it may be worthwhile for me.. I can hardly wait gulp! *; ) Bill I can't speak for 'most' woodworkers, but I seldom do anything without making a drawing first. Where that drawing goes, or to what extent I develop it (3D) depends on the project. I draw 1 or 2 full size kitchens per week, some of those get the whole 3D photographic-grade rendering if the job and/or client warrants that kind of hand-holding. Often they're just plan views to be sent to a cabinet manufacturer for pricing. Sometimes my drawings are my models to be machined directly from the data they contain. Those plan-type of drawings is all I need for countertop pricing as my program gives lineal inches of edges, square feet of material and they become a white-board for further instructions as I do the templating on the actual job-site. Drawings are tools. |
#39
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Artist or Engineer
Robatoy wrote:
I can't speak for 'most' woodworkers, but I seldom do anything without making a drawing first. Those plan-type of drawings is all I need for countertop pricing as my program gives lineal inches of edges, square feet of material and they become a white-board for further instructions as I do the templating on the actual job-site. Past few years I've gotten the same way. "Time" is such a big factor that any of my time spent on drawing/planning generally pays for itself two or three times over down the road - in cutting back on mistakes, with scheduling where getting a thing done on "time", means the next guy up can get his job done, and with waste and as in "... why the hell do we have all those tubafours/tile/whatever left over?" Drawings are tools. Probably the most important tool in the construction process ... in the final analysis, lack of a detailed drawing/plan will _always_ end up being the single most expensive item in the project. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#40
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Artist or Engineer
Robatoy wrote:
I can't speak for 'most' woodworkers, but I seldom do anything without making a drawing first. I have been accused of not being able to find the bathroom without a blueprint. Lew |
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