I have a central dust collection system in my shop that works well for
most of my tools. Unfortunately my cabinet saw is the farthest tool
from the collector and requires a six foot hose to reach it besides.
It doesn't collect the dust well at all there and I'm always tripping
over the hose. I was thinking of getting a portable dust collector
just for this saw and have two questions: first of all will this work
significantly better than what I have now and any suggestions for
which one. I have the Jet 1100 right now and am very pleased with it.
I was looking at the Jet 650 and the comparable Woodtek and Delta.
Does anyone have any experience with these models. It has to be as
quiet as possible, as I have a neighbor who complains if she hears
much noise coming from my garage. Also, are these portables powerful
enough for a table saw if it's dedicated for this tool?

Thanks, Carol

I have a central dust collection system in my shop that works well for
most of my tools. Unfortunately my cabinet saw is the farthest tool
from the collector and requires a six foot hose to reach it besides.

If your run is only 6 feet and it won't pick up the dust, a smaller unit next
to won't either.

First, how is the dust collected a tthe source? Is the bottom of the cabinet,
where the inlet is, sealed? Is there enough air going INTO the saw to make up
the pickup?

Are the filter bags clean? Do you have a lot of elbows and bends? Is the hose
reasonabley smooth in the inside.

Can you run a 5" hose to the colletor instead of a 4" (I assume it's a 4", but
I could be wrong).

Is the overarm guard equipped for pickup as well (you ge m ore there during
ripping than below).

Carol,

I've spent a lot of time working with dust collection on my table saw and
I'm sure the lessons I learned are those learned by many others already.
Before you go spending money and achieving possible disappointment, be sure
you've optimized your table saw connection. In general, if you pull the hose
off the saw does it have pretty good suction? Does it try to pull you hand
into the hose when you cover it? If so, you probably need to work on the
saw, not the dust collection network.

I just spent some time sealing up the cabinet on my saw (jet supersaw). It
really improved after I sealed the cabinet. The cabinet is still not air
tight (you don't want this). The three major openings I closed are 1) the
slot in the rear where the factory blade guard contraption mounted 2) the
long slot where the blade height adjustment moved when the blade was tilted
and 3) a huge gap between the cabinet and the table near the front of the
saw.

The other area to work is above the table. That's a complex topic where I
spent a lot of effort prototyping and testing. My response is too long to
post in this message but hopefully this stimulates your thinking.

By the way, how long is the run from the DC to your saw? What size and type
of ductwork or you using?

Bob


"Carol" wrote in message
om...
I have a central dust collection system in my shop that works well for
most of my tools. Unfortunately my cabinet saw is the farthest tool
from the collector and requires a six foot hose to reach it besides.
It doesn't collect the dust well at all there and I'm always tripping
over the hose. I was thinking of getting a portable dust collector
just for this saw and have two questions: first of all will this work
significantly better than what I have now and any suggestions for
which one. I have the Jet 1100 right now and am very pleased with it.
I was looking at the Jet 650 and the comparable Woodtek and Delta.
Does anyone have any experience with these models. It has to be as
quiet as possible, as I have a neighbor who complains if she hears
much noise coming from my garage. Also, are these portables powerful
enough for a table saw if it's dedicated for this tool?

Thanks, Carol

"Bob Davis" wrote in message hlink.net...
Carol,

I've spent a lot of time working with dust collection on my table saw and
I'm sure the lessons I learned are those learned by many others already.
Before you go spending money and achieving possible disappointment, be sure
you've optimized your table saw connection. In general, if you pull the hose
off the saw does it have pretty good suction? Does it try to pull you hand
into the hose when you cover it? If so, you probably need to work on the
saw, not the dust collection network.

I just spent some time sealing up the cabinet on my saw (jet supersaw). It
really improved after I sealed the cabinet. The cabinet is still not air
tight (you don't want this). The three major openings I closed are 1) the
slot in the rear where the factory blade guard contraption mounted 2) the
long slot where the blade height adjustment moved when the blade was tilted
and 3) a huge gap between the cabinet and the table near the front of the
saw.

The other area to work is above the table. That's a complex topic where I
spent a lot of effort prototyping and testing. My response is too long to
post in this message but hopefully this stimulates your thinking.

By the way, how long is the run from the DC to your saw? What size and type
of ductwork or you using?

Bob


Bob,

I have a General left tilt cabinet saw and it's pretty much closed up
already. I did put a little more weather stripping on the door after
reading your post, but it didn't do any good. I think maybe the lack
of insulation there may have been intentional on General's part, as
you said, you don't want it too air tight. May TS is the farthest tool
from the DC: there's about 30' of ductwork before the blastgate to the
TS. Then there's a 6' hose to the TS. I can feel the suction and if I
disconnect the hose from the TS and stick it in the cabinet, it will
suck up all the dust. The problem is that it just won't pull it from
the blade. That's why I thought a Small dedicated DC close to the saw
would make a difference. My jointer – planer and thickness planer are
almost as far from the DC as the TS is and the DC works great for
them. But what comes from them is more shavings than dust. But even
the shavings from the TS (like from dado cuts) just go to the bottom
of the cabinet and sit there till I clean them out. My other problem
is tripping over the hose. When I go around to the back of the saw,
I'm always stepping over a 4" hose. Any suggestions?

there's about 30' of ductwork before the blastgate to the
TS. Then there's a 6' hose to the TS.

Too long a run for a small dust collector. That is one problem. I doubt you
want more than 20 total feet of run, nor the 36 you currently have.

My jointer €“ planer and thickness planer are
almost as far from the DC as the TS is and the DC works great for
them.

They create much larger shavings, so it's easier for the airstream to take them
(I know that sounds contradictory, but it's not, in reality). Tablesaw dust is
very fine, and it takes a lot to capture it. Also, the jointer hood is closer
and more surrounding of the cutter. A tablesaw dust pickup is really poor; you
are depending upin the force of the blade to push the sawdust down to where the
airstream will claim it.

Also, make sure you are using a guard with air pickup. Most of the dust in
ripping will actually push back on you before it even gets intot he cabinet, so
even a 5 hp Oneida can't get it then.

Carol,

I view the cabinet collection as more of a "vacuum cleaner" for the cabinet.
I believe every table saw is going to have a resident pile of dust in it.
The dust collector, if its working will maintain the dust at a certain
level. If your dust collection on the cabinet is not doing that, then you
have some work to do. I'm curious about the fact that the hose is on the
floor. Can it not be re-routed to the ceiling? I route my duct across the
back off the saw to the far outfeed corner of the saw, then turn it up
toward the ceiling. It doesn't get in the way of anything. I can post
pictures, if you would like to see it.

Your length is at the limit for a 4" duct, depending on its efficiency. I
used Bill Pentz's excellent calculation spreadsheet. It says you should be
able to get 500 cfm, which is sufficient for the cabinet.

I agree with the other poster - if you don't have topside collection, you're
not going to do much good, especially if you use a zero tolerance throat
plate. Most blade guard collection systems use a 2 or 2 1/2" hose. They
will work for ripping operations where the rip is not too close to the edge
of the wood. Avoid any collection at the rear of the blade. The beisemeyer
has got the most effective location along the front of the guard.

I decided that none of the commercial guards was effective enough for me. I
found a 4" connection was much more effective. Then I decided I wanted
something that would work in most situations - cross cut, rip, edge
trimming, tenon cutting, small piece cuts without the guard. I came up with
a 4" collection nozzle that can be moved into place after the cut is setup.
It works amazingly well. By the way, I run two 4" connections to my saw -
one for the cabinet and one above the table. I've turned into a dust
collection biggot. I even run a 4" flex hose to a 3"x4" nozzle for the drill
press.


"Carol" wrote in message
om...
"Bob Davis" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Carol,

I've spent a lot of time working with dust collection on my table saw
and
I'm sure the lessons I learned are those learned by many others already.
Before you go spending money and achieving possible disappointment, be
sure
you've optimized your table saw connection. In general, if you pull the
hose
off the saw does it have pretty good suction? Does it try to pull you
hand
into the hose when you cover it? If so, you probably need to work on
the
saw, not the dust collection network.

I just spent some time sealing up the cabinet on my saw (jet supersaw).
It
really improved after I sealed the cabinet. The cabinet is still not air
tight (you don't want this). The three major openings I closed are 1)
the
slot in the rear where the factory blade guard contraption mounted 2)
the
long slot where the blade height adjustment moved when the blade was
tilted
and 3) a huge gap between the cabinet and the table near the front of
the
saw.

The other area to work is above the table. That's a complex topic where
I
spent a lot of effort prototyping and testing. My response is too long
to
post in this message but hopefully this stimulates your thinking.

By the way, how long is the run from the DC to your saw? What size and
type
of ductwork or you using?

Bob


Bob,

I have a General left tilt cabinet saw and it's pretty much closed up
already. I did put a little more weather stripping on the door after
reading your post, but it didn't do any good. I think maybe the lack
of insulation there may have been intentional on General's part, as
you said, you don't want it too air tight. May TS is the farthest tool
from the DC: there's about 30' of ductwork before the blastgate to the
TS. Then there's a 6' hose to the TS. I can feel the suction and if I
disconnect the hose from the TS and stick it in the cabinet, it will
suck up all the dust. The problem is that it just won't pull it from
the blade. That's why I thought a Small dedicated DC close to the saw
would make a difference. My jointer - planer and thickness planer are
almost as far from the DC as the TS is and the DC works great for
them. But what comes from them is more shavings than dust. But even
the shavings from the TS (like from dado cuts) just go to the bottom
of the cabinet and sit there till I clean them out. My other problem
is tripping over the hose. When I go around to the back of the saw,
I'm always stepping over a 4" hose. Any suggestions?

I agree with the other poster - if you don't have topside collection, you're
not going to do much good, especially if you use a zero tolerance throat
plate. I
found a 4" connection was much more effective.

The other poster was me. I found that my dust collector (a Penn State 1 1/2 hp
portable) wouldnot provide enough air evacuation with the bottom of the saw AND
the guard picking up at the same time. So I bought a little 1hp Shop Vac, maybe
$30 (it's about 12" in all dimensions) and devoted it exclusively to the
Biesmeyer Guard I have.

I agree with you, they only work when the rip is not so narrow you can't lower
the guard all the way. Considering your much larger hose, do you have the same
problem.

I've also found the way to make the collector more efficient is to connect it
to a Long Ranger wireless switch (and a similar one for the overarm Shop Vac).
Since I regard dust collection as philosophy as much as hardware, it you don't
turn it on,

(DarylRos) wrote in message there's about 30' of ductwork before the blastgate to the
..

Too long a run for a small dust collector. That is one problem. I doubt you
want more than 20 total feet of run, nor the 36 you currently have.

Daryl and Bob,

Thanks for your feedback.
This gets me back to my original question: Since the duct run to my TS
is too long, will it help to have a small portable DC (Not a shopvac)
dedicated just to the TS? My saw is under my garage door when it's
open, so overhead ductwork won't work, that's one of the reasons it's
so long.

Thanks, Carol

The portable should be sufficient for handling the cabinet. I think it will
be marginal if you want to do the cabinet and blade guard simultaneously.
However, it would certainly be viable to collect from the top of the saw
while cutting, then leave it running during idle time to vacuum out the
cabinet.

Bob


"Carol" wrote in message
m...
(DarylRos) wrote in message there's about 30' of
ductwork before the blastgate to the
.

Too long a run for a small dust collector. That is one problem. I doubt
you
want more than 20 total feet of run, nor the 36 you currently have.

Daryl and Bob,

Thanks for your feedback.
This gets me back to my original question: Since the duct run to my TS
is too long, will it help to have a small portable DC (Not a shopvac)
dedicated just to the TS? My saw is under my garage door when it's
open, so overhead ductwork won't work, that's one of the reasons it's
so long.

Thanks, Carol

: Since the duct run to my TS
is too long, will it help to have a small portable DC (

The quick answer is yes. The slow answer is, it depends. Since my own DC is a
smaller PennState 1.5HP model (the low slung one with one bag), I can tellyou
it will pick up a lot of the dust from the bottom of the cabinet. I tried to
but in a wye to handle the overrarm guard as well, and it could not handle it.

So if you get the smaller, 1hp model, keep the run as short as possible, and
make sure the dust outlet is in the back of the saw. My Unisaw outlet was this
long slot under the motor, with a strange transition piece that could pick
nothing up. So I closed it up and put in a better pickup. Jet sells plastic
ones' Highland Hardwar sells goos heavy duty ones made for the Unisaw. You
still have to cut the base.

I then got a little ShopVac, a $25 model, just for the overarm guard.

I also suggest using wireless switches, since we all look for escuses not to
walk around and turn the DC on. Thsi way, the switches are right there,
velcroed to the fence.