We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?

I had several ideas, all bad.

(1) measure from the structural boards in the
subfloor, accounting for 2x4 stud and other wall
thickness. Isn't accurate if the house has brick
veneer and I don't know the exterior wall construction.

(2) find a through-the-floor member and measure from that.
Works in the kitchen, with drain or water pipes, but not
across the house in a bedroom.

(3) drill a small pilot hole in an inconspicuous place and
use that as a reference on both above-floor and below-floor
measurements. Didn't have a long enough bit,
at the time (can go a little over an inch with
the small sizes - maybe I could've started with
1/8" and finished with a bit of clotheshanger wire?)
I've drilled into the top of a 2x10 in previous attempts
at this.

(4) put a magnet under the floor, and fish for it
above with a pendulum. This one almost worked,
but I was finding nails because the magnets were
too short (ideally, want over 2" length between N and
S poles for this kind of thing).

So, what DOES work?

On 2009-08-09, whit3rd wrote:

So, what DOES work?

I did a "best guess" approximation, then put a .44 mag hardball through the
floor. Perfect alignment. No drilling. No kidding.

nb

I've never used one, but the local DIY store sells long, flexible
drill shafts for this kind of thing (in the electrical section). You
could run it in through the hole you cut for the box and drill through
the floor from above... If you hit a joist, move over a few inches and
try again. The first hole is completely hidden.

On Aug 9, 1:34*pm, Larry The Snake Guy wrote:
I've never used one, but the local DIY store sells long, flexible
drill shafts for this kind of thing (in the electrical section). You
could run it in through the hole you cut for the box and drill through
the floor from above... If you hit a joist, move over a few inches and
try again. The first hole is completely hidden.

I had one of those. I hit a joist, tried to keep going, and
the drill got stuck. Couldn't move it down, or up,
finally had to cut the shaft and leave it inside the wall.l
There was some junk in the cavity, it fell into the hole
and cemented into a blockage the back of the drill head
couldn't pull past. And there wasn't any chip
removal, so I couldn't drill through.

whit3rd wrote:
We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?

I had several ideas, all bad.

(1) measure from the structural boards in the
subfloor, accounting for 2x4 stud and other wall
thickness. Isn't accurate if the house has brick
veneer and I don't know the exterior wall construction.

(2) find a through-the-floor member and measure from that.
Works in the kitchen, with drain or water pipes, but not
across the house in a bedroom.

(3) drill a small pilot hole in an inconspicuous place and
use that as a reference on both above-floor and below-floor
measurements. Didn't have a long enough bit,
at the time (can go a little over an inch with
the small sizes - maybe I could've started with
1/8" and finished with a bit of clotheshanger wire?)
I've drilled into the top of a 2x10 in previous attempts
at this.

(4) put a magnet under the floor, and fish for it
above with a pendulum. This one almost worked,
but I was finding nails because the magnets were
too short (ideally, want over 2" length between N and
S poles for this kind of thing).

So, what DOES work?

1. Harbor freight sells 24 inch drills starting at 1/8 inch. So cheap
they are disposable.

2. In an emergency (too lazy to go shopping) I have done this with a
stiff piece of wire sharpened to a three-sided or 2 sided point.
Doubt that coat hanger wire qualifies as stiff enough.

3. If drilling upward through carpet, have someone watch for it coming
through. Carpet fibers can stick to and wrap around the bit unraveling
a mess of carpet, especially berber. DAMHIKT.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Monday is a depressing way to spend
one-seventh of your life.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:30:57 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?

I had several ideas, all bad.

(1) measure from the structural boards in the
subfloor, accounting for 2x4 stud and other wall
thickness. Isn't accurate if the house has brick
veneer and I don't know the exterior wall construction.

(2) find a through-the-floor member and measure from that.
Works in the kitchen, with drain or water pipes, but not
across the house in a bedroom.

(3) drill a small pilot hole in an inconspicuous place and
use that as a reference on both above-floor and below-floor
measurements. Didn't have a long enough bit,
at the time (can go a little over an inch with
the small sizes - maybe I could've started with
1/8" and finished with a bit of clotheshanger wire?)
I've drilled into the top of a 2x10 in previous attempts
at this.

(4) put a magnet under the floor, and fish for it
above with a pendulum. This one almost worked,
but I was finding nails because the magnets were
too short (ideally, want over 2" length between N and
S poles for this kind of thing).

So, what DOES work?

Look for where the other wires, pipes, whatever go through to the same
place I want to go. It's kinda hard in this house though. It's on a
slab. :-(

On 2009-08-09, krw wrote:

place I want to go. It's kinda hard in this house though. It's on a
slab. :-(

get a 1" steel pipe, about 1' long, braze some cut/uncut carbide chips on
the rim of one end and a 1/2" steel rod centered on the other. Chuck up
into a Milwaukee 400 rpm 1/2" drill and have at it. Mine easily bored
through 10" of concrete before snagging on a steel girder.

nb

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:35:30 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2009-08-09, krw wrote:

place I want to go. It's kinda hard in this house though. It's on a
slab. :-(

get a 1" steel pipe, about 1' long, braze some cut/uncut carbide chips on
the rim of one end and a 1/2" steel rod centered on the other. Chuck up
into a Milwaukee 400 rpm 1/2" drill and have at it. Mine easily bored
through 10" of concrete before snagging on a steel girder.

It's difficult to get to the bottom side of the slab, so one can drill
up into the wall cavity, though. ;-)

"whit3rd" wrote in message ...
We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?

I had several ideas, all bad.

(1) measure from the structural boards in the
subfloor, accounting for 2x4 stud and other wall
thickness. Isn't accurate if the house has brick
veneer and I don't know the exterior wall construction.

(2) find a through-the-floor member and measure from that.
Works in the kitchen, with drain or water pipes, but not
across the house in a bedroom.

(3) drill a small pilot hole in an inconspicuous place and
use that as a reference on both above-floor and below-floor
measurements. Didn't have a long enough bit,
at the time (can go a little over an inch with
the small sizes - maybe I could've started with
1/8" and finished with a bit of clotheshanger wire?)
I've drilled into the top of a 2x10 in previous attempts
at this.

(4) put a magnet under the floor, and fish for it
above with a pendulum. This one almost worked,
but I was finding nails because the magnets were
too short (ideally, want over 2" length between N and
S poles for this kind of thing).

So, what DOES work?

Sure, we've all done it.

My turn caused me to get an "installer's drill bit" - about 1/4 inch wide and some 15 inches long.

This just fit between the wall and my baseboard (after a bit of prying).

Just drilled a hole thru the floor into the basement (could be a crawl space) and left the drill in place. Went down under, added some wire/cable to the drill bit and backed the bit out drawing the wire with it.

Worked for me.

P D Q

whit3rd wrote:
We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?

I had several ideas, all bad.

(1) measure from the structural boards in the
subfloor, accounting for 2x4 stud and other wall
thickness. Isn't accurate if the house has brick
veneer and I don't know the exterior wall construction.

(2) find a through-the-floor member and measure from that.
Works in the kitchen, with drain or water pipes, but not
across the house in a bedroom.

(3) drill a small pilot hole in an inconspicuous place and
use that as a reference on both above-floor and below-floor
measurements. Didn't have a long enough bit,
at the time (can go a little over an inch with
the small sizes - maybe I could've started with
1/8" and finished with a bit of clotheshanger wire?)
I've drilled into the top of a 2x10 in previous attempts
at this.

(4) put a magnet under the floor, and fish for it
above with a pendulum. This one almost worked,
but I was finding nails because the magnets were
too short (ideally, want over 2" length between N and
S poles for this kind of thing).

So, what DOES work?

I have used the coathanger method many times. Cut the straight section out
of the hanger, sharpen a flattened point on the end. Chuck in a drill and
gently use it to drill down through the floor just in front of the baseboard
and quarter-round if you have it. The hole is so small that you just put a
little wood filler in it and no-one will find it even yourself. When drilled
through, stop the drill so you don't hit any wires, and press the wire down
as far as you can. Measure the distance from the wire to the wall surface.
You can unchuck the drill. Go downstairs and look for the wire. Measure from
where the wire protrudes. You add the space between the wall and the wire as
measured upstairs, plus the plaster/drywall thickness, plus 1/2 the framing
depth, and drill up at that point.

If you hit a joist going down move over and try again. It always worked for
me.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:30:57 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

So, what DOES work?

Removing the wall trim at the floor drill a small hole through to the
basement insert orange painted nail.

"whit3rd" wrote:

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?


You can't get there from here.

You can buy 1/8" x 6"-8" twist drills (Maybe longer) from a decent
hardware store.

Simplest way is to drill down from the top penetrating the floor and
projecting into the basement below.

You then have a point of reference to corectly locate where the hole
needs to be and drill it from underneath using the projecting 1/8"
drill as a starting point.

If you are lucky, you may be able to pry quarter round molding away
from the wall to drill the 1/8" hole inside the foot print.

Worse case is you drill thru the floor in a visible place and have to
come back and plug it with some colored filler.

Lew

whit3rd wrote:

We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?


Determine where you want the outlet box in the living area. Use a piece
of wire coat hanger chucked in a drill to drill a small hole in the
floor along side the baseboard directly below the outlet box location.
Leave the coat hanger in the hole just drilled and go into the basement
to find where the coat hanger came through the floor. Drill up from the
basement into the wall cavity using the coat hanger as a reference.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

EXT wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?

I had several ideas, all bad.

(1) measure from the structural boards in the
subfloor, accounting for 2x4 stud and other wall
thickness. Isn't accurate if the house has brick
veneer and I don't know the exterior wall construction.

(2) find a through-the-floor member and measure from that.
Works in the kitchen, with drain or water pipes, but not
across the house in a bedroom.

(3) drill a small pilot hole in an inconspicuous place and
use that as a reference on both above-floor and below-floor
measurements. Didn't have a long enough bit,
at the time (can go a little over an inch with
the small sizes - maybe I could've started with
1/8" and finished with a bit of clotheshanger wire?)
I've drilled into the top of a 2x10 in previous attempts
at this.

(4) put a magnet under the floor, and fish for it
above with a pendulum. This one almost worked,
but I was finding nails because the magnets were
too short (ideally, want over 2" length between N and
S poles for this kind of thing).

So, what DOES work?

I have used the coathanger method many times. Cut the straight
section out of the hanger, sharpen a flattened point on the end.
Chuck in a drill and gently use it to drill down through the floor
just in front of the baseboard and quarter-round if you have it. The
hole is so small that you just put a little wood filler in it and
no-one will find it even yourself. When drilled through, stop the
drill so you don't hit any wires, and press the wire down as far as
you can. Measure the distance from the wire to the wall surface. You
can unchuck the drill. Go downstairs and look for the wire. Measure
from where the wire protrudes. You add the space between the wall and
the wire as measured upstairs, plus the plaster/drywall thickness,
plus 1/2 the framing depth, and drill up at that point.

If you hit a joist going down move over and try again. It always
worked for me.

You have better luck than I do. Last time I did something like that it took
me three tries to find a joist space that didn't have flatbar, hammer, or
some other metal tool dropped down inside it.

In article ,
notbob wrote:
On 2009-08-09, whit3rd wrote:

So, what DOES work?

I did a "best guess" approximation, then put a .44 mag hardball through the
floor. Perfect alignment. No drilling. No kidding.

nb

Kind of overkill, a .357 or 9mm would have been adequate.

--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

"whit3rd" wrote in message
...
We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?


Do what I do when re-wiring all of the time...

Take a piece of coat hanger, straighten out. Chuck it into a drill motor.
Drill through the floor, at the directly below the box, and at the very
corner formed by the wall and the floor. It will drill through - trust me.
Once it breaks through the sub-floor, make sure you have a few inches
sticking down into the basement, so you can see it from below. Unchuck it
and head down stairs. You'll see the coat hanger sticking through the floor
indicating where the box is located. Drill a hole up through the shoe of
the wall, an inch and a half or so from where the wire is. Remove the wire,
and you'll have just a small hole the diameter of the wire to fill, or
ignore.


--

-Mike-

"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...


2. In an emergency (too lazy to go shopping) I have done this with a stiff
piece of wire sharpened to a three-sided or 2 sided point. Doubt that
coat hanger wire qualifies as stiff enough.

A coat hanger works just fine. No need to sharpen a point either. Just
chuck a piece 8 inches long or so and don't try to force it - let it dirll
it's way in. Pretty quick and barely a hole left to deal with.


--

-Mike-

notbob wrote:
On 2009-08-09, whit3rd wrote:

So, what DOES work?

I did a "best guess" approximation, then put a .44 mag hardball
through the floor. Perfect alignment. No drilling. No kidding.

LUVIT

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

whit3rd wrote:
We've all done this: you get down into the unfinished
basement, snake a few CATV or phone wires around
the ductwork and pipes, then drill up through the
subfloor into a pocket between two studs, and
cut into the wall to put an electrical box for
your new TV connection (or whatever).

But, how do you locate the hole, from below,
so that it comes up in the right place?

I had several ideas, all bad.

(1) measure from the structural boards in the
subfloor, accounting for 2x4 stud and other wall
thickness. Isn't accurate if the house has brick
veneer and I don't know the exterior wall construction.

(2) find a through-the-floor member and measure from that.
Works in the kitchen, with drain or water pipes, but not
across the house in a bedroom.

(3) drill a small pilot hole in an inconspicuous place and
use that as a reference on both above-floor and below-floor
measurements. Didn't have a long enough bit,
at the time (can go a little over an inch with
the small sizes - maybe I could've started with
1/8" and finished with a bit of clotheshanger wire?)
I've drilled into the top of a 2x10 in previous attempts
at this.

(4) put a magnet under the floor, and fish for it
above with a pendulum. This one almost worked,
but I was finding nails because the magnets were
too short (ideally, want over 2" length between N and
S poles for this kind of thing).

So, what DOES work?
As has been mentioned many times I drill a reference hole with a long
flexible drill. Instead of a coat hanger I use a sharpened bicycle
spoke for the drill. It leaves such a small hole that it is usually not
necessary to fill it.
Earl Creel