Currently looking to get several recommendations for a spray on finish for
some cabinet drawer fronts and doors. Will be applying a natural stain on
cherry and would like to know recommendations for top coat. I have a Earlex
HV5000 HVLP Spray Station gun (as yet untried) that I will be using,

Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly or
a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats, any
and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .

SteveA

I go with Lacquer, the solvent version is a bit easier to use, but now they
have the water based.

It's great and durable finish, I use Canlak,
http://www.can-lak.com/en/content/index.aspx

With an HVLP gun, I get excellent results with both water and solvant based,
unlike what you can find on internet concerning the water based.

both products need roughly 15 minutes between coats.



"SteveA" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Currently looking to get several recommendations for a spray on finish for
some cabinet drawer fronts and doors. Will be applying a natural stain on
cherry and would like to know recommendations for top coat. I have a
Earlex HV5000 HVLP Spray Station gun (as yet untried) that I will be
using,

Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly
or a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats,
any and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .

SteveA

I'm a big fan of the CrystalLac water based finish that you can get from
McFeeley's. Since it's a water base, you can spray indoors without having an
explosion proof ventilation system (but you still need some decent venting).
I've had good luck spraying it with my HVLP sprayer. Planning on using it
for the top of a table I'm completing now.
Haven't had to thin it out of the can, can spray successive coats pretty
quickly (around an hour I think). Biggest issue with the water based
finishes is how it raises the grain. Need to spend a little time prepping
your work (dampen to raise grain, sand, repeat) for best success.

Gary in KC


"SteveA" wrote in message
...
Currently looking to get several recommendations for a spray on finish for
some cabinet drawer fronts and doors. Will be applying a natural stain on
cherry and would like to know recommendations for top coat. I have a
Earlex
HV5000 HVLP Spray Station gun (as yet untried) that I will be using,

Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly
or
a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats, any
and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .

SteveA

SteveA wrote:
Currently looking to get several recommendations for a spray on finish for
some cabinet drawer fronts and doors. Will be applying a natural stain on
cherry and would like to know recommendations for top coat. I have a Earlex
HV5000 HVLP Spray Station gun (as yet untried) that I will be using,

Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly or
a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats, any
and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .

SteveA



Where/what purpose will the cabinet serve? For a kitchen or bathroom
cabinet I would recommend a different finish other than one I'd
recommend for a stereo cabinet.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Jul 21, 2:32*pm, "SteveA" wrote:

Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly or
a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats, any
and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .

Spraying a top/finish coat successfully, including thinning, timing,
thickness of application vs. dried coat, how much to thin, etc., etc.,
is a pretty subjective experience. It is a different experience for
every machine, climate, and material being used. That's why there is
so little cut and dried information on the subject.

There is a lot of information in this NG you can search through Google
to find a lot of answers.

You best bet is to buy a quart or two of product and practice with
your selected material on a sheet of plywood until you get the
application process to the point you are happy with the results and
confident in their repeatability.

Robert

My thoughts exactly, which is why I posted the question, I am looking for a
starting point for materials. I understand that there will be some trial and
error involved, but I was looking to avoid spending time and money for
materials with a great hype, but do not fit the task at hand. Who needs to
store another dozen cans of materials for trial and error experiments, I
would prefer to narrow down the list to a handful to begin the experiments.

SteveA

wrote in message
...
On Jul 21, 2:32 pm, "SteveA" wrote:

Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly
or
a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats, any
and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .

Spraying a top/finish coat successfully, including thinning, timing,
thickness of application vs. dried coat, how much to thin, etc., etc.,
is a pretty subjective experience. It is a different experience for
every machine, climate, and material being used. That's why there is
so little cut and dried information on the subject.

There is a lot of information in this NG you can search through Google
to find a lot of answers.

You best bet is to buy a quart or two of product and practice with
your selected material on a sheet of plywood until you get the
application process to the point you are happy with the results and
confident in their repeatability.

Robert

"SteveA" wrote in message
...
Currently looking to get several recommendations for a spray on finish for
some cabinet drawer fronts and doors. Will be applying a natural stain on
cherry and would like to know recommendations for top coat. I have a
Earlex HV5000 HVLP Spray Station gun (as yet untried) that I will be
using,

Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly
or a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats,
any and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .

SteveA


Perhaps I should be more specific on the question, I am looking to finish
door and drawers on kitchen cabinets that I have built. They are face frame
boxes using cherry for the frames. I used the natural stain, Minwax 209 on
the frames and then applies several successive coats of satin poly by hand
starting with a 50% cut, 25% and then the final. Minwax ( have had good luck
with) does not recommend thinning out their material for spray application.
Although I plan on trying this anyway with the satin poly, as a sort of a
back-up plan, I was looking for recommendations for alternative finish
materials for spray application for the doors and drawer fronts. These will
be slabs for both of cherry which I will undoubtedly stain again using the
natural stain, as I want a tint without loosing the cherry wood character.

Would like recommendations on both spray poly materials as well as Lacquer
for a satin finish.

Hope this clears some of the gaps a bit...

SteveA

Steve:

If you have poly on the wood now, you should stick to poly. Nothing
sticks to polyurethane like the polyurethane from the same
manufacturer.

I don't know why you thinned the poly, but the Minwax stuff is so
forgiving it simply isn't needed. In fact, thinning that product can
be counterproductive as it cuts down the layout time which diminishes
application marks such as brush strokes, or light/heavy gun passes.

You should be aware as well that polyurethane has diminishing returns
on multiple coats. Eventually, you will probably see witness lines as
well as adhesion problems between the coats (depending on how they
were applied).

Polyurethanes will not build a monolithic finish, but will remain in
layers as their resins and solvents do not dissolve in to the previous
coats. There is a "second coat" window as well, and if you don't
observe it, you will be putting down new finish coats that adhere, but
not as good as possible if they were put on in a timely fashion.

Again, Minwax poly (solvent based) is bullet proof. Follow the
instruction on the can and don't screw around making the finish into
something it isn't. It's a plastic resin coating.

If you want to build your coats and goof with a lot of variations on
finish, then switch to lacquer. You can build the coats, thin this
way or that, sand, polish, and all manner of variation on that theme.
But lacquer should go on by itself, no primer, and not over another
finish. It will bite into stain just fine, but allow the stain (if
oil based) a week or so to cure out before applying your first coat.
The stain must be completely dry to the touch before application of
any finish over it, but lacquer is particularly unforgiving of the
linseed oils and petroleum products in oil based stains.

If you want to make your glossy lacquer finish a satin finish, use the
finest scotch brite pad on a block to knock down the shine. Don't use
steel wool as it will leave its metal fibers behind and it is much
harder to get a consistent satin finish. Also, since the padding
nature of steel wool does not provide and 100% consistent, even
cutting surface you will find it hard to keep from having
inconsistencies in the reflectivity.

To get the best satin finish, DO NOT knock the shine off the lacquer
until 21 days have passed from your last coat. It will be its hardest
at that time, totally cured out. This will make it much easier to
control the appearance, and will keep the finish from "pilling".

You don't need lubricants to do this. No mineral oil, soap, hair oil,
motor oil, or some special grit lube from England claiming to be the
long lost secret of the ancient craftsmen. The lacquer will scratch
easily; brush, and vacuum as needed while working. When you are
finished creating your satin finish, take a barely damp rag for final
cleaning, and a toothbrush to get the crap out of the nooks.

As far as favorite polys go, I have had good luck with almost all of
them. In abrasion/adhesion tests, Minwax consistently performs just
as well as the more sexy and harder to find brands. If you like the
way it applies and you are happy with your surfaces after you are
finished, stick with it.

As far as lacquers go, the stuff I really like is about $65 a gallon
unless I buy a case. So when I don't need a case, I tend to move
towards the Old Masters lacquer. It has a high solid content and
seems to perform quite well in almost all conditions.

Then there is Deft. One of the oldest finishes around, it is an oldie
but goody. Often overlooked by those in search of something much more
sophisticated sounding and not so pedestrian, Deft is a very solid
performer that is a very good finish which is easily repaired if need
be. I have had great luck shooting and padding Deft, but brushing it
was a disaster for me.

Next, don't buy crappy lacquer thinner. Stay away from the junk they
sell at Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace, or any of those places. The stuff
they sell is pretty much gun wash and works well for that. Go to a
real paint store and
some branded lacquer thinner that is the more expensive, virgin
stuff. They sell that at Sherwin Williams, Benjamin Moore, etc.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that buying an expensive finish
will make your finishes better. But a couple of cans and spray out
some different mixes to see what your fun likes. Practice with
whatever finish you buy to make sure you aren't practicing on your
projects.

Good luck!

Robert

wrote:

snip great coatings discussion as usual

Robert,

Do you have any experience with marine varnishes, especially Epifanes?

At about $35-$40/liter, the stuff is definitely on a gold standard of
it's own, but wood boat guys swear by it.

Lew

On Jul 23, 12:16*am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Robert,

Do you have any experience with marine varnishes, especially Epifanes?

At about $35-$40/liter, the stuff is definitely on a gold standard of
it's own, but wood boat guys swear by it.

No, I don't. I would love to try some on a piece or two of wood, but
they don't give samples.

There was a place here in town called "The Sailboat Shop" where they
refurbished boats as well as selling them. I had a buddy that worked
there, so I dropped by on occasion.

They had a very experienced guy that used to strip and refinish their
wood appointments and utility areas and he would use it when the $$$
were there.
He did some beautiful work with the Epifanes products. The only thing
I really remember about his work (outside of how nice it turned out)
was when he was telling me you had to use their ancillary products the
whole way, no substitutions.

Then for some reason or another, they lost him. I wasn't able to pick
his brain any further.

They replaced him with an ace finisher, and the finishes he left
behind (even if it was something as benign as spar varnish) looked
like they were applied with a shovel and rake. The SBS quit the
refinishing of wood after that.

What I wouldn't have given to spend an afternoon in the shop with
their good finisher. I was completely fascinated by a product that he
used freely to seal surfaces that would be used underwater, yet
provide a good enough (great, actually) finish for the appointments.

Robert

On Jul 23, 9:06*am, "
wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:16*am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Robert,

Do you have any experience with marine varnishes, especially Epifanes?

At about $35-$40/liter, the stuff is definitely on a gold standard of
it's own, but wood boat guys swear by it.

No, I don't. *I would love to try some on a piece or two of wood, but
they don't give samples.

There was a place here in town called "The Sailboat Shop" where they
refurbished boats as well as selling them. *I had a buddy that worked
there, so I dropped by on occasion.

They had a very experienced guy that used to strip and refinish their
wood appointments and utility areas and he would use it when the $$$
were there.
He did some beautiful work with the Epifanes products. *The only thing
I really remember about his work (outside of how nice it turned out)
was when he was telling me you had to use their ancillary products the
whole way, no substitutions.

Then for some reason or another, they lost him. *I wasn't able to pick
his brain any further.

They replaced him with an ace finisher, and the finishes he left
behind (even if it was something as benign as spar varnish) looked
like they were applied with a shovel and rake. *The SBS quit the
refinishing of wood after that.

What I wouldn't have given to spend an afternoon in the shop with
their good finisher. *I was completely fascinated by a product that he
used freely to seal surfaces that would be used underwater, yet
provide a good enough (great, actually) finish for the appointments.

Robert

I have been reading your answers on finishing for quite some time now.
I think there has got to be a book deal in there.
I am not having a fit of Da Funny here, I'm dead serious.
Solid expertise is hard to come by.
It doesn't have to be a War & Peace on finishing, just some solid info
in a small pocketable booklet.
Maybe Charlie Self can give you some input.

As the old Jewish saying goes: If Not Now,.. When?

r

Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 23, 9:06 am, "
wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:16 am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:


Robert

I have been reading your answers on finishing for quite some time now.
I think there has got to be a book deal in there.
I am not having a fit of Da Funny here, I'm dead serious.
Solid expertise is hard to come by.
It doesn't have to be a War & Peace on finishing, just some solid info
in a small pocketable booklet.
Maybe Charlie Self can give you some input.

As the old Jewish saying goes: If Not Now,.. When?

r

I would second that. I don't own spray equipment yet, but it's one of
those tools that's on the list.

When I do make the plunge, I'll also have to cull all the nailshooter
posts from Google and make my own book of Robert's Proverbs on How to
Avoid Embarassing Finishes or Spray Like a Pro! It would be ever so
helpful if you'd just do it for us, Robert, and I'll gladly shell out
the $19.95 + S/H to Amazon.

You've obviously got the knowledge, and you have another must-have: the
ability to explain yourself to the vast majority of your readers. Sure
some of the postings can be edited, and you'd need graphics to go with
it, but you're sitting on a small gold mine there. Worth a few minutes'
thought.

Tanus

"Robatoy" wrote:

As the old Jewish saying goes: If Not Now,.. When?

Thought that was Obama talking about health care reform.

Lew

On Jul 23, 7:25*pm, Tanus wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

I have been reading your answers on finishing for quite some time now.
I think there has got to be a book deal in there.
I am not having a fit of Da Funny here, I'm dead serious.
Solid expertise is hard to come by.
It doesn't have to be a War & Peace on finishing, just some solid info
in a small pocketable booklet.
Maybe Charlie Self can give you some input.

As the old Jewish saying goes: If Not Now,.. When?

r

I would second that. I don't own spray equipment yet, but it's one of
those tools that's on the list.

When I do make the plunge, I'll also have to cull all the nailshooter
posts from Google and make my own book of Robert's Proverbs on How to
Avoid Embarassing Finishes or Spray Like a Pro! It would be ever so
helpful if you'd just do it for us, Robert, and I'll gladly shell out
the $19.95 + S/H to Amazon.

You've obviously got the knowledge, and you have another must-have: the
ability to explain yourself to the vast majority of your readers. Sure
some of the postings can be edited, and you'd need graphics to go with
it, but you're sitting on a small gold mine there. Worth a few minutes'
thought.

Thanks for the kind words, guys. I truly appreciate it. I enjoy
helping people that are trying to learn things and making an honest
effort.

I think there could be a market for some kind of finishing mini book
simply because it is such a hard subject for many woodworkers.

In my remodel/repair business I am often invited to see the proud
father or a woodworking project built in a small shop or garage. The
woodwork part can at times be really great. The finishing is most
usually not so great. To me it is a shame to see someone spend hours
and hours building something nice only to make it look like a junior
high shop class project by using poor finishing technique.

I honestly thought about putting together a 50 page book to cover
spraying, thinning, product selection, coloring of wood etc., that
just hit the highlights and pitfalls.

But as you have mentioned Charlie Self, I remember him talking (either
here or somewhere else) about putting either a small book or long
article together to get published and it sounded like more work than
building a house. And Charlie has been doing it for years and years.

If I did put something together, it would probably have to be looked
at as a fun project, not a money maker. In that vein, it could be a
good bad weather project, something I might enjoy doing.

It could be interesting... :^)

Robert

On Jul 24, 9:14*am, "
wrote:


If I did put something together, it would probably have to be looked
at as a fun project, not a money maker. *In that vein, it could be a
good bad weather project, something I might enjoy doing.

It could be interesting... * *:^)

It could make some money, but that shouldn't be the driver.
The book would be a niche market item and not an exposé of Michael
Jackson's breakfast habits.

You could also do the Kramer thing and make a coffee table book. G

Simple, small, durable cover (like the engineering handbook-type
covers) something that will stay opened on the page you want.
Maybe add a page what wood one would use when smoking a brisket to comp
[liment the choice of bourbon and cigars..G

r

wrote:
On Jul 23, 7:25 pm, Tanus wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

I have been reading your answers on finishing for quite some time now.
I think there has got to be a book deal in there.
I am not having a fit of Da Funny here, I'm dead serious.
Solid expertise is hard to come by.
It doesn't have to be a War & Peace on finishing, just some solid info
in a small pocketable booklet.
Maybe Charlie Self can give you some input.
As the old Jewish saying goes: If Not Now,.. When?
r
I would second that. I don't own spray equipment yet, but it's one of
those tools that's on the list.

When I do make the plunge, I'll also have to cull all the nailshooter
posts from Google and make my own book of Robert's Proverbs on How to
Avoid Embarassing Finishes or Spray Like a Pro! It would be ever so
helpful if you'd just do it for us, Robert, and I'll gladly shell out
the $19.95 + S/H to Amazon.

You've obviously got the knowledge, and you have another must-have: the
ability to explain yourself to the vast majority of your readers. Sure
some of the postings can be edited, and you'd need graphics to go with
it, but you're sitting on a small gold mine there. Worth a few minutes'
thought.

Thanks for the kind words, guys. I truly appreciate it. I enjoy
helping people that are trying to learn things and making an honest
effort.

I think there could be a market for some kind of finishing mini book
simply because it is such a hard subject for many woodworkers.

In my remodel/repair business I am often invited to see the proud
father or a woodworking project built in a small shop or garage. The
woodwork part can at times be really great. The finishing is most
usually not so great. To me it is a shame to see someone spend hours
and hours building something nice only to make it look like a junior
high shop class project by using poor finishing technique.

I honestly thought about putting together a 50 page book to cover
spraying, thinning, product selection, coloring of wood etc., that
just hit the highlights and pitfalls.

But as you have mentioned Charlie Self, I remember him talking (either
here or somewhere else) about putting either a small book or long
article together to get published and it sounded like more work than
building a house. And Charlie has been doing it for years and years.

If I did put something together, it would probably have to be looked
at as a fun project, not a money maker. In that vein, it could be a
good bad weather project, something I might enjoy doing.

It could be interesting... :^)

Robert



Something else to consider. I have Flexner's book on finishes, and it
seems very good to me, a relative newbie to finishing. He has a bit of
an axe to grind about myths and fabrications, mainly by the industry
itself. I'm sure there are other capable authors with finishing books as
well.

While Flexner certainly mentions spraying and spray equipment, he
doesn't delve into it that much, if memory serves. If you decide to put
something together, you could look at it from the angle of making a
book/pamphlet/set of stories that complements books that are already on
the market, like Flexners. That way you're not tackling a topic that's
already been done, merely going more in-depth.

Tanus

Robatoy writes:
On Jul 24, 9:14=A0am, "
wrote:


If I did put something together, it would probably have to be looked
at as a fun project, not a money maker. =A0In that vein, it could be a
good bad weather project, something I might enjoy doing.

It could be interesting... =A0 =A0:^)

It could make some money, but that shouldn't be the driver.
The book would be a niche market item and not an expos=E9 of Michael
Jackson's breakfast habits.

You could also do the Kramer thing and make a coffee table book. G

Simple, small, durable cover (like the engineering handbook-type
covers) something that will stay opened on the page you want.

Just like the Leigh D4 manual. Best I've seen to date.

scott

Somebody wrote:

Simple, small, durable cover (like the engineering handbook-type
covers) something that will stay opened on the page you want.

Very straight forward.

Used to make finished reports for presentations, etc.

The only thing special is a paper punch that punches a series of
rectangular holes along the 11" dimension of the paper.

These holes then accept a plastic spline containing individual plastic
spiral rings that fit into each rectangular hole to form a finished
report..

Based on past experiences, could probably punch, collate, and assemble
100 sets, 50 pages each in less than 4 hours.

As I type this, have an assembled report on the desk beside me, just
can't remember who makes them.

Should be a standard office supply item.

Lew

I have been on this list as long as anybody
and I have always enjoyed your small "stories"
on finishing.

Perhaps a magazine article might be a way to
get started in the publishing business ???

wrote:

Simple, small, durable cover (like the engineering handbook-type
covers) something that will stay opened on the page you want.

I find those handy myself. I like the fact they stay open, but I like
the ones that have tables and reference charts in them that will stay
on the page you need.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:07:23 GMT, the infamous Nova
scrawled the following:

SteveA wrote:
Currently looking to get several recommendations for a spray on finish for
some cabinet drawer fronts and doors. Will be applying a natural stain on
cherry and would like to know recommendations for top coat. I have a Earlex
HV5000 HVLP Spray Station gun (as yet untried) that I will be using,

Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly or
a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats, any
and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .

SteveA



Where/what purpose will the cabinet serve? For a kitchen or bathroom
cabinet I would recommend a different finish other than one I'd
recommend for a stereo cabinet.

Well, yeah. One -hand rubs- a finish onto a stereo cabinet.

--
The only reason I would take up exercising is
so that I could hear heavy breathing again.

On Oct 26, 12:36*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:07:23 GMT, the infamous Nova
scrawled the following:

Hey Larry, any particular reason you're dredging up all of these dead
threads from months ago? Dead thread dredging generally points to
people being at, ahem, loose ends.

R

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:42:11 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Oct 26, 12:36*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:07:23 GMT, the infamous Nova
scrawled the following:

Hey Larry, any particular reason you're dredging up all of these dead
threads from months ago? Dead thread dredging generally points to
people being at, ahem, loose ends.

R


It's called, "catching up".

Compared to the quality of most of the posts, his are a breath of
fresh air.





Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/