Hello all. I'm working on an arbor to "frame" a set of French doors on
the front of our house. It is a simple design of Craftsman/Asian
influence. I've worked with Ipe before on an outdoor bench and table.
At local lumberyard I can get nominal 1 x 4 and 1 x 6 boards. I've
poured two footings using sonotubes and have sunk J-bolts for 4 x 4
Simpson brackets for the two posts. My idea is to use either pressure
treated or redwood milled to 3" x 3" and then wrap 1/4" ipe edge
mitered on top, Gorilla glued and brad nailed. My question is for the
"base" lumber, would it better to use PT or redwood. I could use my
thickness planer to mill a 4x4 piece of redwood to 3x3. Or I could rip
redwood 2x4 to 3" wide and laminate two together. Or I could rip PT
2x4 to 3" and laminate them to make a dimensional 3x3. After the post
situation is solved I've got the rest of the design and construction
figured out. I'm going to use Penofin oil to "seal" the ipe. TIA for
your help.

It is not possible to glue ipe.




On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:08:30 -0700 (PDT), dale martin
wrote:

Hello all. I'm working on an arbor to "frame" a set of French doors on
the front of our house. It is a simple design of Craftsman/Asian
influence. I've worked with Ipe before on an outdoor bench and table.
At local lumberyard I can get nominal 1 x 4 and 1 x 6 boards. I've
poured two footings using sonotubes and have sunk J-bolts for 4 x 4
Simpson brackets for the two posts. My idea is to use either pressure
treated or redwood milled to 3" x 3" and then wrap 1/4" ipe edge
mitered on top, Gorilla glued and brad nailed. My question is for the
"base" lumber, would it better to use PT or redwood. I could use my
thickness planer to mill a 4x4 piece of redwood to 3x3. Or I could rip
redwood 2x4 to 3" wide and laminate two together. Or I could rip PT
2x4 to 3" and laminate them to make a dimensional 3x3. After the post
situation is solved I've got the rest of the design and construction
figured out. I'm going to use Penofin oil to "seal" the ipe. TIA for
your help.
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Gluing_Ipe.html






On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:08:30 -0700 (PDT), dale martin
wrote:

Hello all. I'm working on an arbor to "frame" a set of French doors on
the front of our house. It is a simple design of Craftsman/Asian
influence. I've worked with Ipe before on an outdoor bench and table.
At local lumberyard I can get nominal 1 x 4 and 1 x 6 boards. I've
poured two footings using sonotubes and have sunk J-bolts for 4 x 4
Simpson brackets for the two posts. My idea is to use either pressure
treated or redwood milled to 3" x 3" and then wrap 1/4" ipe edge
mitered on top, Gorilla glued and brad nailed. My question is for the
"base" lumber, would it better to use PT or redwood. I could use my
thickness planer to mill a 4x4 piece of redwood to 3x3. Or I could rip
redwood 2x4 to 3" wide and laminate two together. Or I could rip PT
2x4 to 3" and laminate them to make a dimensional 3x3. After the post
situation is solved I've got the rest of the design and construction
figured out. I'm going to use Penofin oil to "seal" the ipe. TIA for
your help.
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Jun 9, 12:31*pm, Tom Watson wrote:
It is not possible to glue ipe.


It's a good thing I didn't know that when I did quite a bit of ipe
gluing on a deck five or six years ago.

The wood was sold as "Ipe" from Ipe Depot. It was glued with Titebond
II immediately after jointing. I may have wiped some of it with
solvent, but I don't think I was consistent on it. None of the glue
joints are structural, but are on horizontal, flat deck boards fully
exposed to midwest weather. Five or so years later, the glue line on
some joints is visible, but all joints still appear to be sound.

I also wrapped the edge of a round part of the deck with 1/4-inch ipe,
glued with construction adhesive. It, too, appears to be holding up
well.

We'll see what the next five years bring.

Interesting problem. I was going to suggest West System T88 epoxy
instead of Gorilla glue because every test I have ever seen puts
Gorilla at the bottom of the list of wood glues. If Tom is correct
that ipe won't glue then this is a tough one.

I think whatever you do for internal post is OK, RW or PT, just
minimize possibility of standing water at the base.

I think maybe epoxy and finish nails gunned into the post and to seal
the edge miters. Another option would be to add some exposed fastners.
Maybe square headed, hand forged lags like these http://www.blackbearforge.com/fasteners.htm.
Not as clean of a look but can work well with the asian\craftsman
look. I envision two rows up each face at maybe 18" vert spacing.

Another acceptable concept, instead of miters which can be hard to
close in a wrap like this is to have one set of faces flush and the
other set overhang by 1/4" or so in sort of an H pattern in cross
section.

On Jun 9, 10:08*am, dale martin wrote:
Hello all. I'm working on an arbor to "frame" a set of French doors on
the front of our house. It is a simple design of Craftsman/Asian
influence. I've worked with Ipe before on an outdoor bench and table.
At local lumberyard I can get nominal 1 x 4 and 1 x 6 boards. I've
poured two footings using sonotubes and have sunk J-bolts for 4 x 4
Simpson brackets for the two posts. My idea is to use either pressure
treated or redwood milled to 3" x 3" and then wrap 1/4" ipe edge
mitered on top, Gorilla glued and brad nailed. My question is for the
"base" lumber, would it better to use PT or redwood. I could use my
thickness planer to mill a 4x4 piece of redwood to 3x3. Or I could rip
redwood 2x4 to 3" wide and laminate two together. Or I could rip PT
2x4 to 3" and laminate them to make a dimensional 3x3. After the post
situation is solved I've got the rest of the design and construction
figured out. I'm going to use Penofin oil to "seal" the ipe. TIA for
your help.

Ah yes, I did some testing of many adhesives a few years back for an
extreme application, wood to stone, and now I always keep a tube of
the winner, liquid nails, around for those odd jobs where I need a
quick permenant fix.

On Jun 9, 11:10*am, ed_h wrote:
On Jun 9, 12:31*pm, Tom Watson wrote:

It is not possible to glue ipe.

It's a good thing I didn't know that when I did quite a bit of ipe
gluing on a deck five or six years ago.

The wood was sold as "Ipe" from Ipe Depot. *It was glued with Titebond
II immediately after jointing. *I may have wiped some of it with
solvent, but I don't think I was consistent on it. *None of the glue
joints are structural, but are on horizontal, flat deck boards fully
exposed to midwest weather. *Five or so years later, the glue line on
some joints is visible, but all joints still appear to be sound.

I also wrapped the edge of a round part of the deck with 1/4-inch ipe,
glued with construction adhesive. *It, too, appears to be holding up
well.

We'll see what the next five years bring.

On 6/9/2009 11:18 AM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

Ah yes, I did some testing of many adhesives a few years back for an
extreme application, wood to stone, and now I always keep a tube of
the winner, liquid nails, around for those odd jobs where I need a
quick permenant fix.

Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

**** off






On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:37:37 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 6/9/2009 11:18 AM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

Ah yes, I did some testing of many adhesives a few years back for an
extreme application, wood to stone, and now I always keep a tube of
the winner, liquid nails, around for those odd jobs where I need a
quick permenant fix.

Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On 6/9/2009 11:47 AM Tom Watson spake thus:

**** off

Ah, yes, the typically helpful, reasoned response from a stubborn
top-poster.

Right back atcha.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:37:37 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 6/9/2009 11:18 AM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

Ah yes, I did some testing of many adhesives a few years back for an
extreme application, wood to stone, and now I always keep a tube of
the winner, liquid nails, around for those odd jobs where I need a
quick permenant fix.

Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On Jun 9, 11:37*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/9/2009 11:18 AM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

Ah yes, I did some testing of many adhesives a few years back for an
extreme application, wood to stone, and now I always keep a tube of
the winner, liquid nails, around for those odd jobs where I need a
quick permenant fix.

Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.

--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

Why not top post? I was thinking some of those pyramid shaped copper
caps. I think they would look good against the ipe.

wrote:

Why not top post? I was thinking some of those pyramid shaped copper
caps. I think they would look good against the ipe.

ROTFLMAO!
Great rejoinder!
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.

I agree. But you've really got to be wet behind the ears if you think
this request will accomplish anything.

Or badly in need of a life if you know this won't accomplish anything
but feel compelled to try.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Maybe its just the reader that I use but I hate it when folks don't
top post. I'd rather read than scroll. I'd rather write than scroll.

I suppose I am blockable if you are so set against it.

No offense taken nor intended, just exercising the same freedom you
exercise to complain.

On Jun 9, 11:37*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/9/2009 11:18 AM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

Ah yes, I did some testing of many adhesives a few years back for an
extreme application, wood to stone, and now I always keep a tube of
the winner, liquid nails, around for those odd jobs where I need a
quick permenant fix.

Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.

--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

"dale martin" wrote:

snip
..... Gorilla glued and brad nailed.
snip

Most over priced and under peckered adhesive you could choose IMHO.

You have a much better choice, thickened epoxy.

http://www.systemthree.com/p_st_quikfair.asp

Is one product. You are paying for convience; however, System 3 makes
good stuff.

Just went over this with Tom Watson.

IPE is tough to bond; however, it is doable.

Rough up the IPE with some 40-60 grit on a ROS, then coat with
laminating epoxy penetrating roughened surface.

Wait a few minutes, then apply fairing putty.

Wait 48 hours before trying to stress joint.

The secret is to get the laminating epoxy to lock into the IPE fibers,
then have the fairing putty bond to the laminating resin.

BTW, strictly personal preference, but would not use pressure treated
lumber in this application, at least not the crap I've seen.

Have fun.

Lew

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
Maybe its just the reader that I use but I hate it when folks don't
top post. I'd rather read than scroll. I'd rather write than scroll.


Personally, I don't care one way or the other with the following caveat...

It makes sense to bottom post, in order to see everything in order.
However, I get so sick of people not editing their posts. You have
someone who replies to *and quotes* an entire "six page" post, only
to say, "me, too!"

In the case of this (my) post, I deleted the repeat crap that everyone's
read, anyway (if they're following) and left only the pertinent info to
which I am referring. If they're new to the thread, they can go and
read all the other posts, like everyone else did.

I have found that most "non-editing, six page quoters" are using a
web-based repeater forum like google-groups or any of a dozen others.
And it seems they can't figure out how to delete and quote properly
using the web-based thingie.

OR, people are on a regular newsreader and are just too fricken
lazy and inconsiderate to edit their posts.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I read the group from a tree view and I can see who responded to what
and in what order so I don't need all the context, inline, over and
over again. I guess if you are reading from email or some other method
it just makes sense. (Top posted).

On Jun 9, 3:12*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
Maybe its just the reader that I use but I hate it when folks don't
top post. I'd rather read than scroll. I'd rather write than scroll.

Personally, I don't care one way or the other with the following caveat....

It makes sense to bottom post, in order to see everything in order.
However, I get so sick of people not editing their posts. *You have
someone who replies to *and quotes* an entire "six page" post, only
to say, "me, too!"

In the case of this (my) post, I deleted the repeat crap that everyone's
read, anyway (if they're following) and left only the pertinent info to
which I am referring. *If they're new to the thread, they can go and
read all the other posts, like everyone else did.

I have found that most "non-editing, six page quoters" are using a
web-based repeater forum like google-groups or any of a dozen others.
And it seems they can't figure out how to delete and quote properly
using the web-based thingie.

OR, people are on a regular newsreader and are just too fricken
lazy and inconsiderate to edit their posts.

--

* -MIKE-

* "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
* * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004)
* --
*http://mikedrums.com
*
* ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I read the group from a tree view and I can see who responded to what
I can read in whatever fashion I choose.
and in what order so I don't need all the context, inline, over and
My email application can configure the posts, in threads or by date.
over again. I guess if you are reading from email or some other method
I prefer to read them by date, so the recent ones just show up on top.
it just makes sense. (Top posted).

(middle posted)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Please don't play net nanny, contribute or keep quiet.




"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 6/9/2009 11:18 AM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

Ah yes, I did some testing of many adhesives a few years back for an
extreme application, wood to stone, and now I always keep a tube of
the winner, liquid nails, around for those odd jobs where I need a
quick permenant fix.

Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

"dale martin" wrote in message
...
Hello all. I'm working on an arbor to "frame" a set of French doors on
the front of our house. It is a simple design of Craftsman/Asian
influence. I've worked with Ipe before on an outdoor bench and table.
At local lumberyard I can get nominal 1 x 4 and 1 x 6 boards. I've
poured two footings using sonotubes and have sunk J-bolts for 4 x 4
Simpson brackets for the two posts. My idea is to use either pressure
treated or redwood milled to 3" x 3" and then wrap 1/4" ipe edge
mitered on top, Gorilla glued and brad nailed. My question is for the
"base" lumber, would it better to use PT or redwood. I could use my
thickness planer to mill a 4x4 piece of redwood to 3x3. Or I could rip
redwood 2x4 to 3" wide and laminate two together. Or I could rip PT
2x4 to 3" and laminate them to make a dimensional 3x3. After the post
situation is solved I've got the rest of the design and construction
figured out. I'm going to use Penofin oil to "seal" the ipe. TIA for
your help.

Untreated Ipe is reported to have a 50 year out door life expectancy, why
not use it under itself?

I totally agree if it is a single answer response.


"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...
Maybe its just the reader that I use but I hate it when folks don't
top post. I'd rather read than scroll. I'd rather write than scroll.

I suppose I am blockable if you are so set against it.

No offense taken nor intended, just exercising the same freedom you
exercise to complain.

On Jun 9, 11:37 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/9/2009 11:18 AM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

Ah yes, I did some testing of many adhesives a few years back for an
extreme application, wood to stone, and now I always keep a tube of
the winner, liquid nails, around for those odd jobs where I need a
quick permenant fix.

Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.

--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On Jun 10, 6:43*am, "Leon" wrote:
"dale martin" wrote in message

...

Hello all. I'm working on an arbor to "frame" a set of French doors on
the front of our house. It is a simple design of Craftsman/Asian
influence. I've worked with Ipe before on an outdoor bench and table.
At local lumberyard I can get nominal 1 x 4 and 1 x 6 boards. I've
poured two footings using sonotubes and have sunk J-bolts for 4 x 4
Simpson brackets for the two posts. My idea is to use either pressure
treated or redwood milled to 3" x 3" and then wrap 1/4" ipe edge
mitered on top, Gorilla glued and brad nailed. My question is for the
"base" lumber, would it better to use PT or redwood. I could use my
thickness planer to mill a 4x4 piece of redwood to 3x3. Or I could rip
redwood 2x4 to 3" wide and laminate two together. Or I could rip PT
2x4 to 3" and laminate them to make a dimensional 3x3. After the post
situation is solved I've got the rest of the design and construction
figured out. I'm going to use Penofin oil to "seal" the ipe. TIA for
your help.

Untreated Ipe is reported to have a 50 year out door life expectancy, why
not use it under itself?

I would use dimensional ipe of 3 1/2" thickness for the 4x4 posts if
it was available locally and not cost prohibitive. Since it's not then
I'm trying to get the look of the ipe using what's available which is
3/4" thick ipe and PT or
redwood.

wrote:

On Jun 10, 6:43*am, "Leon" wrote:
"dale martin" wrote in message

...

Hello all. I'm working on an arbor to "frame" a set of French doors on
the front of our house. It is a simple design of Craftsman/Asian
influence. I've worked with Ipe before on an outdoor bench and table.
At local lumberyard I can get nominal 1 x 4 and 1 x 6 boards. I've
poured two footings using sonotubes and have sunk J-bolts for 4 x 4
Simpson brackets for the two posts. My idea is to use either pressure
treated or redwood milled to 3" x 3" and then wrap 1/4" ipe edge
mitered on top, Gorilla glued and brad nailed. My question is for the
"base" lumber, would it better to use PT or redwood. I could use my
thickness planer to mill a 4x4 piece of redwood to 3x3. Or I could rip
redwood 2x4 to 3" wide and laminate two together. Or I could rip PT
2x4 to 3" and laminate them to make a dimensional 3x3. After the post
situation is solved I've got the rest of the design and construction
figured out. I'm going to use Penofin oil to "seal" the ipe. TIA for
your help.

Untreated Ipe is reported to have a 50 year out door life expectancy, why
not use it under itself?

I would use dimensional ipe of 3 1/2" thickness for the 4x4 posts if
it was available locally and not cost prohibitive. Since it's not then
I'm trying to get the look of the ipe using what's available which is
3/4" thick ipe and PT or
redwood.

Do you need the center? Wouldn't a box column of 1x ipe be plenty
strong to carry the load? If not, how about a steel post, boxed in
with the ipe?
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Around here (east coast mid-Atlantic USA) PT costs a fraction of what
redwood does, if you can even find any. Since it's going to be hidden
by the overlay, I'd go with the PT on cost basis alone. Plus, I have
no experience with redwood in the ground, but IME PT posts far
outlast cedar. (Note my experience based on the old CCA PT, not
the newer stuff)




--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Oh really?

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:
...snipped...
Please don't top post. You'll notice hardly anyone here does.


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

wrote in message
...
Untreated Ipe is reported to have a 50 year out door life expectancy, why
not use it under itself?

I would use dimensional ipe of 3 1/2" thickness for the 4x4 posts if
it was available locally and not cost prohibitive. Since it's not then
I'm trying to get the look of the ipe using what's available which is
3/4" thick ipe and PT or
redwood.


Well there is that. LOL.

Have you considered galvanized chain link fence terminal posts and
cover them with Ipe? Those are relatively cheap, don't warp, and don't
rot.

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:10:21 -0700 (PDT), ed_h
wrote:

On Jun 9, 12:31*pm, Tom Watson wrote:
It is not possible to glue ipe.


It's a good thing I didn't know that when I did quite a bit of ipe
gluing on a deck five or six years ago.

The wood was sold as "Ipe" from Ipe Depot. It was glued with Titebond
II immediately after jointing. I may have wiped some of it with
solvent, but I don't think I was consistent on it. None of the glue
joints are structural, but are on horizontal, flat deck boards fully
exposed to midwest weather. Five or so years later, the glue line on
some joints is visible, but all joints still appear to be sound.

I also wrapped the edge of a round part of the deck with 1/4-inch ipe,
glued with construction adhesive. It, too, appears to be holding up
well.

We'll see what the next five years bring.


I'm glad you've had a good experience with it.

I suspect that, as it says in a couple of the posts on the WoodWeb
thread, that the species you are getting in the midwest are different
than what we are getting locally.

What we get is extremely oily and the oil bleeds to the surface soon
after it is worked or wiped with denatured alcohol or acetone.

We've tested isocyanurates, various epoxies, West System, TiteBond
III, etc. We've tried the Timesaver with 60 and 80 grit and we wiped
with both denatured alcohol and acetone. We were unable to get a bond
that we could trust for gluing up for width or thickness.

The last job we did was 4000 bd ft for a roof top screening job in
Manhattan and we just decided that we couldn't afford the exposure of
gluing up. So we paid beaucoup bucks to get the stuff in thicknesses
and widths that we could use without gluing up.


I like Ipe and it gets used a lot in city work because it has the same
fire rating as concrete and steel. It's also damned near as hard and
hard on tooling.


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...

I'm glad you've had a good experience with it.

I suspect that, as it says in a couple of the posts on the WoodWeb
thread, that the species you are getting in the midwest are different
than what we are getting locally.

What we get is extremely oily and the oil bleeds to the surface soon
after it is worked or wiped with denatured alcohol or acetone.

We've tested isocyanurates, various epoxies, West System, TiteBond
III, etc. We've tried the Timesaver with 60 and 80 grit and we wiped
with both denatured alcohol and acetone. We were unable to get a bond
that we could trust for gluing up for width or thickness.


I have worked with Ipe quite a bit and find that the glue that "looks like"
and "screws like" a "Pocket Hole Screw" works pretty good. :~)