On Tue, 12 May 2009 02:47:25 -0700 (PDT), Charlie Self
wrote:

That said, I've got to say I only know a couple of people who carry
around here, and it's a 50-50 split between one guy who fears
everything, and the other who is a strutting horse's ass.

You may actually know a lot more people who carry, but don't advertise
the fact. I carried concealed for almost 10 years when I was working
in a place with a less than salubrious environment. In all that time
neither my boss nor my co-workers knew I was carrying. It really would
have been something only my wife and myself would have known if it
weren't for my getting a speeding ticket while carrying (Washington
state law at the time required you to disclose), after which a number
LEOs know as well, as did some of their friends and family.

Still, the point is that many people carry concealed and consider
silence about it to be part of the concealment.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

My laptop knows me too well - it just announced "your battery is low!"

On 2009-05-12, Tim Douglass wrote:

Still, the point is that many people carry concealed and consider
silence about it to be part of the concealment.

Amazing how many ppl fail to understand this basic concept.

I moved here to CO from CA and was shocked to discover that, based on my
sterling record, the state CANNOT refuse to issue me a ccw. I don't have
one, but talk about a change of political climate. Wow! 8|

nb

notbob wrote:
On 2009-05-12, Tim Douglass wrote:

Still, the point is that many people carry concealed and consider
silence about it to be part of the concealment.

Amazing how many ppl fail to understand this basic concept.

I moved here to CO from CA and was shocked to discover that, based on
my sterling record, the state CANNOT refuse to issue me a ccw. I
don't have one, but talk about a change of political climate. Wow!

You should get one. There are benefits even if you DON'T carry a weapon.

1. If the **** ever hits the fan, you can buy a weapon instantly without a
background check or waiting period. The waiting period onus was especially
grievous during the Watts riots when righteous shopkeepers were confronted
with the mandatory 3-day wait.

2. When traveling to jurisdictions such as New York or California, a
concealed handgun license assures you of top-notch service. Those exposed to
your license assume you are well-connected (since only the powerful get
licenses) and fall all over themselves to please you.

3. When asked for ID to go with your credit card, presenting a CHL permit,
coupled with a steely glint and the phrase "You're about to make my ****in'
day," forestalls many delays.

4. When stopped by the fuzz, presentation of a CHL soothes the suspicions of
the constabulary and attests to the fact that you are an upstanding citizen.

"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

2. When traveling to jurisdictions such as New York or
California, a concealed handgun license assures you of
top-notch service. Those exposed to your license assume you
are well-connected (since only the powerful get licenses)
and fall all over themselves to please you.

New York and California don't care if you have a CHL. They
don't issue them to common folk and don't honor licenses
issued by other states.


3. When asked for ID to go with your credit card,
presenting a CHL permit, coupled with a steely glint and
the phrase "You're about to make my ****in' day,"
forestalls many delays.

CHL is *not* a valid form of ID, at least in TX, although it
may be in other states. Trying to use it as intimidation is
doing nothing but giving the anti-gun people more ammo. Poor
choice of words at best. Scary if you really think that's
true.

Larry

On 2009-05-13, Larry wrote:

choice of words at best. Scary if you really think that's
true.

Even scarier is if you took any of his statements as anything other than
high comedy.

nb

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

2. When traveling to jurisdictions such as New York or
California, a concealed handgun license assures you of
top-notch service. Those exposed to your license assume you
are well-connected (since only the powerful get licenses)
and fall all over themselves to please you.

New York and California don't care if you have a CHL. They
don't issue them to common folk and don't honor licenses
issued by other states.

Hmmm... I've had a concealed carry permit in NY for about 28 years...
Congressman Maurice Hinchey applied for a permit about the same week as I
and I got mine about six months quicker. This was at a time when it
typically took 1-2 years to get a permit. Hinchey got his because he had
been threatened by "the Mafia" for his work in the state legislature. He
later got busted carry his PPK in his luggage at Dulles International
Airport. "Forgot it was there." Given his generally antigun voting record I
thought that was rich! His getting busted is also how I found out the time
frames regarding his permit issuance. ;~)

BTW, don't visit NY with your handgun unless you have a NY permit. Out of
state permits don't count.

John

John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...

"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

2. When traveling to jurisdictions such as New York or
California, a concealed handgun license assures you of
top-notch service. Those exposed to your license assume you
are well-connected (since only the powerful get licenses)
and fall all over themselves to please you.


New York and California don't care if you have a CHL. They
don't issue them to common folk and don't honor licenses
issued by other states.


Hmmm... I've had a concealed carry permit in NY for about 28 years...
Congressman Maurice Hinchey applied for a permit about the same week as
I and I got mine about six months quicker. This was at a time when it
typically took 1-2 years to get a permit. Hinchey got his because he had
been threatened by "the Mafia" for his work in the state legislature. He
later got busted carry his PPK in his luggage at Dulles International
Airport. "Forgot it was there." Given his generally antigun voting
record I thought that was rich! His getting busted is also how I found
out the time frames regarding his permit issuance. ;~)

BTW, don't visit NY with your handgun unless you have a NY permit. Out
of state permits don't count.

John



I've had my NY permit to carry for a little over 32 years and never once
have I gotten special service from anyone because of it.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

In article , "John Grossbohlin" wrote:

BTW, don't visit NY with your handgun unless you have a NY permit. Out of
state permits don't count.

I'd like to see that tested in a Federal court: "Full Faith and Credit shall
be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings
of every other State." [Constitution of the USA, Article IV, Section 1]

It's that sentence that makes a marriage performed in Michigan valid in
Illinois, a driver's license issued by Wisconsin valid in Arizona, and arrest
warrants issued by an Ohio court enforceable in Texas -- so why isn't a CCW
permit issued by Indiana recognized in New York?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "John
Grossbohlin" wrote:

BTW, don't visit NY with your handgun unless you have a NY permit. Out of
state permits don't count.

I'd like to see that tested in a Federal court: "Full Faith and Credit
shall
be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial
Proceedings
of every other State." [Constitution of the USA, Article IV, Section 1]

It's that sentence that makes a marriage performed in Michigan valid in
Illinois, a driver's license issued by Wisconsin valid in Arizona, and
arrest
warrants issued by an Ohio court enforceable in Texas -- so why isn't a
CCW
permit issued by Indiana recognized in New York?

Never said it was reasonable and logical... it's NY, home of the Sullivan
Laws!

During big game season is when you see arrests of out of state hunters in
the news paper. Truck drivers are another group that seem to get caught up
in this...

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "John Grossbohlin" wrote:


BTW, don't visit NY with your handgun unless you have a NY permit. Out of
state permits don't count.


I'd like to see that tested in a Federal court: "Full Faith and Credit shall
be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings
of every other State." [Constitution of the USA, Article IV, Section 1]

It's that sentence that makes a marriage performed in Michigan valid in
Illinois, a driver's license issued by Wisconsin valid in Arizona, and arrest
warrants issued by an Ohio court enforceable in Texas -- so why isn't a CCW
permit issued by Indiana recognized in New York?

"No person may carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the
state unless he has a valid New York license. New York does not issue
licenses to non-residents nor does it recognize licenses issued by other
states. (A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local
laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in
interstate travel. If a person is traveling from any place where he may
lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may
lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded
and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm
shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or
console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.) A
member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol
team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in
a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided
that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a locked carrying case and
the ammunition is carried in a separate locked container. An alien may
possess a rifle or shotgun for use while hunting provided he has a valid
New York hunting license. "If such (handgun) license is issued to an
alien, or to a person not a citizen of and usually a resident in the
state, the licensing officer shall state in the license the particular
reason for the issuance and the names of the persons certifying to the
good character of the applicant." Non-resident target shooters may enter
or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA
approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of
the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of
residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked
opaque container."

http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm

You're welcome to challenge the NY state law.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Nova wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "John
Grossbohlin" wrote:


BTW, don't visit NY with your handgun unless you have a NY permit. Out of
state permits don't count.

.... snip
http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm

You're welcome to challenge the NY state law.


No thanks, I'll just keep my business and travel out of New York

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "John
Grossbohlin" wrote:

BTW, don't visit NY with your handgun unless you have a NY permit.
Out of state permits don't count.

I'd like to see that tested in a Federal court: "Full Faith and
Credit shall
be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial
Proceedings
of every other State." [Constitution of the USA, Article IV, Section
1]

It's that sentence that makes a marriage performed in Michigan valid
in
Illinois, a driver's license issued by Wisconsin valid in Arizona,
and arrest
warrants issued by an Ohio court enforceable in Texas -- so why isn't
a CCW
permit issued by Indiana recognized in New York?

That's a common misconception. FF&C applies ONLY to judicial acts and
matters of personal status. It does NOT apply to a state's legislative acts.
No state is going to enforce the criminal laws of another state. Nor is any
state going to automatically recognize the registration of another states
lawyers, accountants, engineers, or barbers. Being licensed to practice
medicine in Utah carries no automatic weight in Iowa.

In your examples, "marriage" is a determination of personal status and will
be recognized across state boundaries - the same as divorce, adoption, and,
generally, inheritance. Warrants issued by one state's courts are recognized
in another state because warrants are judicial acts.

The case of a driver's license is special. The driver's license situation
took place because of a special federal compact law. It essentially said
that a state MUST accept the licenses of other states or the state wouldn't
get any federal highway money. Every state complied.

In article , "HeyBub" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "John
Grossbohlin" wrote:

BTW, don't visit NY with your handgun unless you have a NY permit.
Out of state permits don't count.

I'd like to see that tested in a Federal court: "Full Faith and Credit shall
be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings
of every other State." [Constitution of the USA, Article IV, Section 1]

It's that sentence that makes a marriage performed in Michigan valid in
Illinois, a driver's license issued by Wisconsin valid in Arizona, and arrest
warrants issued by an Ohio court enforceable in Texas -- so why isn't a CCW
permit issued by Indiana recognized in New York?

That's a common misconception. FF&C applies ONLY to judicial acts and
matters of personal status. It does NOT apply to a state's legislative acts.

That is incorrect. It explicitly says "records" -- which is why a driver's
license issued in one state is valid in another. If a driver's license, why
not a handgun license?

No state is going to enforce the criminal laws of another state.

Also incorrect. Any police officer in any state may arrest anyone for whom an
arrest warrant has been issued in a different state -- and the Constitution
*requires* states to return fugitives.

Nor is any
state going to automatically recognize the registration of another states
lawyers, accountants, engineers, or barbers. Being licensed to practice
medicine in Utah carries no automatic weight in Iowa.

Has *that* ever been tested in court against the "full faith and credit"
clause?

In your examples, "marriage" is a determination of personal status and will
be recognized across state boundaries - the same as divorce, adoption, and,
generally, inheritance. Warrants issued by one state's courts are recognized
in another state because warrants are judicial acts.

The case of a driver's license is special. The driver's license situation
took place because of a special federal compact law. It essentially said
that a state MUST accept the licenses of other states or the state wouldn't
get any federal highway money. Every state complied.

Got a cite for that? The use of that particular hammer on the states is a
fairly recent discovery by the Feds (last three decades or so, IIRC), but
driver's licenses have been recognized as valid across state lines for a very
long time.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
m...



No thanks, I'll just keep my business and travel out of New York


That's not hard to do - New York state has perfected the practice of driving
business from the state...

--

-Mike-

Doug Miller wrote:

That's a common misconception. FF&C applies ONLY to judicial acts and
matters of personal status. It does NOT apply to a state's
legislative acts.

That is incorrect. It explicitly says "records" -- which is why a
driver's
license issued in one state is valid in another. If a driver's
license, why
not a handgun license?

The "records" referred to are things like birth certificates, deeds,
business licenses, and the like.


No state is going to enforce the criminal laws of another state.

Also incorrect. Any police officer in any state may arrest anyone for
whom an
arrest warrant has been issued in a different state -- and the
Constitution *requires* states to return fugitives.

I covered that. Warrants are issued by courts. FF&C applies to jucidial acts
which includes warrants.


Nor is any
state going to automatically recognize the registration of another
states lawyers, accountants, engineers, or barbers. Being licensed
to practice medicine in Utah carries no automatic weight in Iowa.

Has *that* ever been tested in court against the "full faith and
credit"
clause?

Many times. There are various compacts between the states (all interstate
"compacts" must be authorized by Congress) permitting cross-border
recognition. Registered nurses are one example, but, in general, being
"licensed" in one state confers no privileges in another.


In your examples, "marriage" is a determination of personal status
and will be recognized across state boundaries - the same as
divorce, adoption, and, generally, inheritance. Warrants issued by
one state's courts are recognized in another state because warrants
are judicial acts.

The case of a driver's license is special. The driver's license
situation took place because of a special federal compact law. It
essentially said that a state MUST accept the licenses of other
states or the state wouldn't get any federal highway money. Every
state complied.

Got a cite for that? The use of that particular hammer on the states
is a
fairly recent discovery by the Feds (last three decades or so, IIRC),
but
driver's licenses have been recognized as valid across state lines
for a very
long time.

No, I don't. I think it's buried in highway transportation funding bill
somewhere. Nevertheless, driver's licenses are part of an interstate compact
between the states. They are one of the exceptions to the rule that stuff
legalized (or made illegal) in one state is not automatically recognized as
such in another.

Here's one bizarre example. Suppose a state has a law barring first-cousins
from marrying. Married cousins, from another state, will have their marriage
recognized upon relocation. Here's one that HASN'T been tested (so far as I
know): Suppose a man immigrates to the U.S. from a country that permits
plural marriages...