Another thing to consider is an auto drain assembly.

It is an enclosed ball and needle vale that drains the tank when ever the
ball float goes above a certain level.

It is piped to the drain valve connection.

I have them on both compressors and they stay nice and dry.

I also use a filter on the line just in case.

Got everything throough Grainger's or McMaster Carr, I don't recall which.



"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:
OK, I finally figured out my compressor purchase and went with the
Campbell Hausfield 60 gal upright - Lowes was even nice enough to part
with it for $399 (gloat?)

The manual says that the tank should be drained daily. I'm wondering
what people usually do with their large compressors... do you drain
the tank every day, or just leave it pumped up so it's ready when you
need it?

I've had an upright Sanborn (similar to your C-H) for the past 20 years
and I *never* release the pressure from the tank, at least not unless I'm
draining the water, which isn't all that often. I don't run it balls-out
too often, but when I do moisture in the lines is rarely a problem because
I use one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Air-Filter-Kit...68978&sr= 1-7

I've had it for the same 20 years and it works like a champ. WAY better
than those glass bowl filters.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Sun, 10 May 2009 17:33:00 -0500, dpb wrote:

Mike wrote:
On Fri, 08 May 2009 08:15:04 -0500, dpb wrote:

I know what they say but...

The 80(?) gal compressor here is 40+ yr old and has been left
pressurized/on 24/7 and hasn't been drained but a time or two in its
lifetime (and would add a "maybe" to that estimate).

Have you ever consider the need to internally inspect the pressure
vessel?

Nope...

Ever seen the results of a pressure vessel failure? I saw one about
thirty years ago that sent shrapnel over 50 yards.

In the UK, if the pressure vessel is used in commercial premises then
26 months is the maximum period between statutory inspections. The
rest of the world may vary (and usually does!)


--

Mike wrote:
....
Ever seen the results of a pressure vessel failure? I saw one about
thirty years ago that sent shrapnel over 50 yards.
....
Catastrophic overpressure failure is a completely different thing than
the possibility of a rust pinhole developing after 50 years or so...

I'm simply commenting that daily water buildup in a low-use, low-volume
homeowner/home-shop environment is somewhat excessive...

And, yes, I've seen results of high-pressure water/steam having been 30+
years associated w/ power generation facilities there have been a
couple. But they're much higher pressure and much higher temperature
events (1000-2000 psi, 600-1000F typical).

--

dpb wrote:
Mike wrote:
...
Ever seen the results of a pressure vessel failure? I saw one about
thirty years ago that sent shrapnel over 50 yards.
...
Catastrophic overpressure failure is a completely different thing than
the possibility of a rust pinhole developing after 50 years or so...

I'm simply commenting that daily water buildup in a low-use,
low-volume homeowner/home-shop environment is somewhat excessive...

And, yes, I've seen results of high-pressure water/steam having been
30+ years associated w/ power generation facilities there have been a
couple. But they're much higher pressure and much higher temperature
events (1000-2000 psi, 600-1000F typical).

Yet another example of people living in unreasoned terror of their tools.

Anybody that worried about it should wrap it in a Kevlar blanket or stack
some dead truck tires around it or something.

J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
Mike wrote:
...
Ever seen the results of a pressure vessel failure? I saw one about
thirty years ago that sent shrapnel over 50 yards.
...
Catastrophic overpressure failure is a completely different thing than
the possibility of a rust pinhole developing after 50 years or so...

I'm simply commenting that daily water buildup in a low-use,
low-volume homeowner/home-shop environment is somewhat excessive...

And, yes, I've seen results of high-pressure water/steam having been
30+ years associated w/ power generation facilities there have been a
couple. But they're much higher pressure and much higher temperature
events (1000-2000 psi, 600-1000F typical).

Yet another example of people living in unreasoned terror of their tools.

Anybody that worried about it should wrap it in a Kevlar blanket or stack
some dead truck tires around it or something.

Most air compressors of this caliber are never pressurized much above
100psi anyway. I can't imagine a tank "blowout" at this pressure
causing much harm at all, other than a loud noise and perhaps some
soiled underwear.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...


Most air compressors of this caliber are never pressurized much above
100psi anyway. I can't imagine a tank "blowout" at this pressure causing
much harm at all, other than a loud noise and perhaps some soiled
underwear.


Compressors have soiled underwear inside of them?

--

-Mike-

Steve Turner wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
Mike wrote:
...
Ever seen the results of a pressure vessel failure? I saw one
about thirty years ago that sent shrapnel over 50 yards.
...
Catastrophic overpressure failure is a completely different thing
than the possibility of a rust pinhole developing after 50 years or
so...

I'm simply commenting that daily water buildup in a low-use,
low-volume homeowner/home-shop environment is somewhat excessive...

And, yes, I've seen results of high-pressure water/steam having been
30+ years associated w/ power generation facilities there have been
a couple. But they're much higher pressure and much higher
temperature events (1000-2000 psi, 600-1000F typical).

Yet another example of people living in unreasoned terror of their
tools.

Anybody that worried about it should wrap it in a Kevlar blanket or
stack some dead truck tires around it or something.

Most air compressors of this caliber are never pressurized much above
100psi anyway. I can't imagine a tank "blowout" at this pressure
causing much harm at all, other than a loud noise and perhaps some
soiled underwear.

Bingo. But if one is determined to be afraid of one's compressor then
rather than agonizing over how it is going to explode and kill them one day
they should take steps that allow it to explode with impunity and then stop
worrying about it. Of course if they aren't happy unless they're worrying
about something I guess a compressor is as good a target for recreational
worrying as anything.

J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
Mike wrote:
...
Ever seen the results of a pressure vessel failure? I saw one about
thirty years ago that sent shrapnel over 50 yards.
...
Catastrophic overpressure failure is a completely different thing than
the possibility of a rust pinhole developing after 50 years or so...

I'm simply commenting that daily water buildup in a low-use,
low-volume homeowner/home-shop environment is somewhat excessive...

And, yes, I've seen results of high-pressure water/steam having been
30+ years associated w/ power generation facilities there have been a
couple. But they're much higher pressure and much higher temperature
events (1000-2000 psi, 600-1000F typical).

Yet another example of people living in unreasoned terror of their tools.

Anybody that worried about it should wrap it in a Kevlar blanket or stack
some dead truck tires around it or something.

The tank itself (particularly if it is ASME-rated; some of the no-name
imports that aren't rated I might worry just a little about a weld
failure) is pretty unlikely to be an issue.

What I have seen that can be injurious if not lethal is the
shock-induced fracture of larger plastic pipe used as reservoirs in a
shop air system. It was cold (-20F outside, unheated shop building
probably about 0F inside) and a tool fell from a wall hook and hit one
of these. It scattered pieces around like that if got you in a tender
spot could have done some damage.

I abandoned the idea of plastic lines then and there for the barn.
Altho I think a 1/2-3/4" distribution line wouldn't have sufficient
material volume to be a major deal, I decided it wouldn't be a smart
idea even if cheaper...

That was ages ago long before I ran across the OSHA directives, etc., ...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...


Bingo. But if one is determined to be afraid of one's compressor then
rather than agonizing over how it is going to explode and kill them one
day
they should take steps that allow it to explode with impunity and then
stop
worrying about it. Of course if they aren't happy unless they're worrying
about something I guess a compressor is as good a target for recreational
worrying as anything.


And it has the added benefit of distracting from the worry about static
charges in PVC piping on the dust collector, grain silos, etc.

--

-Mike-

On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:24:18 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

recreational worrying
..
Never seen that term before, but it captures the concept beautifully!

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

An armed society is a polite society.
Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
Robert A. Heinlein

Tom Veatch wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:24:18 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

recreational worrying
.
Never seen that term before, but it captures the concept beautifully!

Thank you, sir. Made it up on the spot.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:10:25 -0500, dpb wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
dpb wrote:
Mike wrote:
...
Ever seen the results of a pressure vessel failure? I saw one about
thirty years ago that sent shrapnel over 50 yards.
...
Catastrophic overpressure failure is a completely different thing than
the possibility of a rust pinhole developing after 50 years or so...

I'm simply commenting that daily water buildup in a low-use,
low-volume homeowner/home-shop environment is somewhat excessive...

And, yes, I've seen results of high-pressure water/steam having been
30+ years associated w/ power generation facilities there have been a
couple. But they're much higher pressure and much higher temperature
events (1000-2000 psi, 600-1000F typical).

Yet another example of people living in unreasoned terror of their tools.

Anybody that worried about it should wrap it in a Kevlar blanket or stack
some dead truck tires around it or something.

The tank itself (particularly if it is ASME-rated; some of the no-name
imports that aren't rated I might worry just a little about a weld
failure) is pretty unlikely to be an issue.

What I have seen that can be injurious if not lethal is the
shock-induced fracture of larger plastic pipe used as reservoirs in a
shop air system. It was cold (-20F outside, unheated shop building
probably about 0F inside) and a tool fell from a wall hook and hit one
of these. It scattered pieces around like that if got you in a tender
spot could have done some damage.

I abandoned the idea of plastic lines then and there for the barn.
Altho I think a 1/2-3/4" distribution line wouldn't have sufficient
material volume to be a major deal, I decided it wouldn't be a smart
idea even if cheaper...

That was ages ago long before I ran across the OSHA directives, etc., ...

What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap. The
fittings are at least as expensive as the tubing for an extensive
system.

"krw" wrote in message
What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap. The
fittings are at least as expensive as the tubing for an extensive
system.

Copper is a very common air line material. Easy to break into if you want
to add branches later too.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 14:50:59 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

dpb wrote:
Mike wrote:
...
Ever seen the results of a pressure vessel failure? I saw one about
thirty years ago that sent shrapnel over 50 yards.
...
Catastrophic overpressure failure is a completely different thing than
the possibility of a rust pinhole developing after 50 years or so...

I'm simply commenting that daily water buildup in a low-use,
low-volume homeowner/home-shop environment is somewhat excessive...

And, yes, I've seen results of high-pressure water/steam having been
30+ years associated w/ power generation facilities there have been a
couple. But they're much higher pressure and much higher temperature
events (1000-2000 psi, 600-1000F typical).

Yet another example of people living in unreasoned terror of their tools.

Anybody that worried about it should wrap it in a Kevlar blanket or stack
some dead truck tires around it or something.

No one is 'living in unreasoned terror of their tools' A statutory
internal inspection of a pressure vessel might *never* find anything,
but the defined periods and limits of that inspection are based on
many years of practical experience, and nothing in that knowledge base
can currently justify extending that inspection period by a few months
let alone a few decades. It's absolutely bugger all to do with
overpressure and regardless of the normal operating pressure the
regime of inspection is identical.

A typical 100psi portable compressor typically used in close proximity
to the work with portable tools might be viewed as more dangerous in
failure than a 3000psi compressor used in air blast HV switchgear as
for most of the time no one is anywhere near them when they are
operating and they use chain mail screens to limit damage to the
building and adjacent equipment.

Anyone operating a pressure vessel for 40 years with no internal
inspection IS living on borrowed time, that's not just my opinion but
that of thousands of professional pressure vessel inspectors,
insurance companies and health and safety legislators worldwide.

--

"krw" wrote in message
...

What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap. The
fittings are at least as expensive as the tubing for an extensive
system.

But is it really still cheap? Residential A/C compressor condensing units
are being stolen for the copper.

"krw" wrote:

What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap.

Think your database needs an update on copper prices.

Lew

In article
Jack Stein writes:

So, I'm NOT alone....although you got me by maybe 5 years. I had
thought the tanks were lined in glass, someone told me that once... Now,
I'm thinking metal rusts slower under water than just being damp? If
damp metal is in contact with air, it rusts quickly. Not much air in
water, so, leaving it in might be better than draining it every day?

Um, no. There isn't much air in water, but there is a hell of a
lot of oxygen. Water contributes to rust so well because water is
self-ionizing (something to do with the shape of the molecule). A
small fraction of the water is always free oxygen and free hydrogen.

Beyond that, I'm completely ignorant about the details of the steel
that is used for these tanks. Maybe the typical tank-steel rusts
very slowly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

--
|Drew Lawson | Mrs. Tweedy! |
| | The chickens are revolting! |

dpb wrote:
Mike wrote:
On Fri, 08 May 2009 08:15:04 -0500, dpb wrote:

I know what they say but...

The 80(?) gal compressor here is 40+ yr old and has been left
pressurized/on 24/7 and hasn't been drained but a time or two in its
lifetime (and would add a "maybe" to that estimate).

Have you ever consider the need to internally inspect the pressure
vessel?

Nope...

So, I'm NOT alone....although you got me by maybe 5 years. I had
thought the tanks were lined in glass, someone told me that once... Now,
I'm thinking metal rusts slower under water than just being damp? If
damp metal is in contact with air, it rusts quickly. Not much air in
water, so, leaving it in might be better than draining it every day?

Just wondering why my 30 gallon tank hasn't collapsed in a pile of rubble?

--
Jack
Go Penns!
http://jbstein.com

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"krw" wrote:


What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap.


Think your database needs an update on copper prices.

Lew



The price of copper has come down quite a bit over the last couple of
months:

1/2" x 10' Type M copper pipe - $6.76
1/2" x 10' Type L copper pipe - $9.68

A few months ago I paid $68.00 for a 250' roll of 14/2 Romex. Last week
it was down to $23.00.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Drew Lawson wrote:
Jack Stein writes:
So, I'm NOT alone....although you got me by maybe 5 years. I had
thought the tanks were lined in glass, someone told me that once... Now,
I'm thinking metal rusts slower under water than just being damp? If
damp metal is in contact with air, it rusts quickly. Not much air in
water, so, leaving it in might be better than draining it every day?

Um, no. There isn't much air in water, but there is a hell of a
lot of oxygen.

Good point.

Water contributes to rust so well because water is
self-ionizing (something to do with the shape of the molecule). A
small fraction of the water is always free oxygen and free hydrogen.

Thanks for the link, but I got to tell you, it was way over my head.:-)
I couldn't figure out if it addressed say a nail submerged in water vs a
nail kept constantly wet/damp but not submerged. I'm thinking that a
compressor is always wet on the bottom whether or not you drain it. What
do you think? I don't have a clue myself, but I know I rarely have
drained mine in over 30 years, and it still has no leaks, and the last
time I drained it, about 6 months ago after a similar discussion here
(where I learned the tank doesn't have a glass liner) I drained several
pints of water into a glass container, no sign of rust, and no sign of
oil.

I'm also thinking when/if it rusts through, it will go pfsssssh instead
of boooom.:-)

Beyond that, I'm completely ignorant about the details of the steel
that is used for these tanks. Maybe the typical tank-steel rusts
very slowly.

Maybe they use, or used to use, or some use, a rust resistant, high
nickel or something type of metal. I know mine is over 30 years old,
bought it used, and my brothers he bought used when I was 12 years old,
really old then (50 years ago), and it still holds air fine, no signs of
leakage (he drains his though) I remember painting cars with it and it
sounded like it was going to knock itself apart. My brother said if
breaks, he'll buy a nice 2-3 stage compressor... still running still a
knocking. I painted lots of cars and trucks with that thing, and it
proves if you want something to break, it never will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

--
Jack
Go Penns
http://jbstein.com

On Thu, 14 May 2009 16:12:14 -0500, Jack Stein
wrote:

I'm thinking that a
compressor is always wet on the bottom whether or not you drain it. What
do you think?

I'm thinking you're right. And the reason I think so is that the
relative humidity (RH) inside a tank charged to 135 PSIG (factory
shutoff setting on my compressor) will be about 10 times greater than
the ambient RH. So anytime the compressor runs when the RH is
somewhere above 10% you're going to get condensation inside the tank
by the time the 135 PSIG (~150PSIA) shutoff pressure is reached.

If the shutoff pressure is below 135 PSIG, then the ambient RH
necessary to cause condensation inside the tank is correspondingly
higher.


Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

An armed society is a polite society.
Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
Robert A. Heinlein

Jack Stein wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:
Jack Stein writes:
So, I'm NOT alone....although you got me by maybe 5 years. I had
thought the tanks were lined in glass, someone told me that once...
Now, I'm thinking metal rusts slower under water than just being
damp? If damp metal is in contact with air, it rusts quickly. Not
much air in water, so, leaving it in might be better than draining it
every day?

Um, no. There isn't much air in water, but there is a hell of a
lot of oxygen.

Good point.

Water contributes to rust so well because water is
self-ionizing (something to do with the shape of the molecule). A
small fraction of the water is always free oxygen and free hydrogen.

Thanks for the link, but I got to tell you, it was way over my head.:-)
I couldn't figure out if it addressed say a nail submerged in water vs a
nail kept constantly wet/damp but not submerged. I'm thinking that a
compressor is always wet on the bottom whether or not you drain it. What
do you think? I don't have a clue myself, but I know I rarely have
drained mine in over 30 years, and it still has no leaks, and the last
time I drained it, about 6 months ago after a similar discussion here
(where I learned the tank doesn't have a glass liner) I drained several
pints of water into a glass container, no sign of rust, and no sign of oil.

I'm also thinking when/if it rusts through, it will go pfsssssh instead
of boooom.:-)

Beyond that, I'm completely ignorant about the details of the steel
that is used for these tanks. Maybe the typical tank-steel rusts
very slowly.

Maybe they use, or used to use, or some use, a rust resistant, high
nickel or something type of metal. I know mine is over 30 years old,
bought it used, and my brothers he bought used when I was 12 years old,
really old then (50 years ago), and it still holds air fine, no signs of
leakage (he drains his though) I remember painting cars with it and it
sounded like it was going to knock itself apart. My brother said if
breaks, he'll buy a nice 2-3 stage compressor... still running still a
knocking. I painted lots of cars and trucks with that thing, and it
proves if you want something to break, it never will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

I used to have a small home air compressor. Over time the air tank
developed a couple of holes. These were in the bottom and would vent air
and water when in use. The pump eventually gave out so I replaced it
with one from HF.

"Jack Stein" wrote in message
...

I'm thinking that a compressor is always wet on the bottom whether or not
you drain it. What do you think?

Is an iced tea glass only wet on the bottom? It condenses moisture on the
outside of the glass every where the glass is cooler than the ambient
temperature. The compressor tank works the same way. HOT compressed air
goes into the tank and the moisture in the air condenses every where on the
inside tank walls. Basically the moisture is all over the inside walls
untill the droplets become large enough to run down to the bottom of the
tank and collect.

I firmly believe that draining the tank helps to slow rusting but more
importantly it maintains tank air capacity and helps to keep moisture out of
the air hose. A tank that has a 20 gallon capacity and has 4 gallons of
water in it will recycle 20% more often, or something like that.


I'm also thinking when/if it rusts through, it will go pfsssssh instead of
boooom.:-)


I had an 80 gallon unit fail that way, it was a slow death. With relatively
low pressure and the fact that there is/are weakest points in the tank pin
holes developed and leak. As they rust they become bigger and leak more. I
suppose if you ignore that situation the tank could eventually explode or
blow a larger hole.

On Thu, 14 May 2009 06:04:47 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap. The
fittings are at least as expensive as the tubing for an extensive
system.

Copper is a very common air line material. Easy to break into if you want
to add branches later too.

Yep. I put 150ft in my previous house. I'd like to do similar here.

On Thu, 14 May 2009 17:06:46 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

"krw" wrote:

What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap.

Think your database needs an update on copper prices.

Type-L was $8.80/10ft hunk on the way home. Quick disconnects are
$3-$5 each and 1/2" copper to 1/4" pipe fittings are over $3! Yeah,
it's still pretty cheap. ...and it's so easy to work with (damn I
hate the PEX in my new house).

On Thu, 14 May 2009 20:18:26 GMT, Nova wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"krw" wrote:


What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap.


Think your database needs an update on copper prices.

Lew



The price of copper has come down quite a bit over the last couple of
months:

1/2" x 10' Type M copper pipe - $6.76
1/2" x 10' Type L copper pipe - $9.68

A few months ago I paid $68.00 for a 250' roll of 14/2 Romex. Last week
it was down to $23.00.

Where? I'd pick op three or four at that price! It was $41 at lowes
on the way home. I'll be finishing the (u)FROG over the next year or
so and would buy ahead if it were down that far.

Copper Oxide - the black power inside - must be filtered out
or it will clog any tool.

Having a quality filter at each site to trap the fine dust might
be expensive.

Dryer at the front helps any pipe system.

Martin

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"krw" wrote in message
What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap. The
fittings are at least as expensive as the tubing for an extensive
system.

Copper is a very common air line material. Easy to break into if you want
to add branches later too.

"Leon" wrote in message
...


I firmly believe that draining the tank helps to slow rusting but more
importantly it maintains tank air capacity and helps to keep moisture out
of the air hose. A tank that has a 20 gallon capacity and has 4 gallons
of water in it will recycle 20% more often, or something like that.

The only part of this that I think is a little off Leon, is the 4 gallons of
water. I've gone for pretty long periods without draining my tank and have
never drained more than about a quart out of it. That's after a lot of use,
and a long time. I'm not sure you could ever reach that level of water in a
tank since the condensation inside is constantly being blown out the hose as
you use it.


--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...


I firmly believe that draining the tank helps to slow rusting but more
importantly it maintains tank air capacity and helps to keep moisture out
of the air hose. A tank that has a 20 gallon capacity and has 4 gallons
of water in it will recycle 20% more often, or something like that.

The only part of this that I think is a little off Leon, is the 4 gallons
of water. I've gone for pretty long periods without draining my tank and
have never drained more than about a quart out of it. That's after a lot
of use, and a long time. I'm not sure you could ever reach that level of
water in a tank since the condensation inside is constantly being blown
out the hose as you use it.


You have a valid point. BUT, I live in Houston, it is humid here. I also
often hear my compressor cycle on every 2-3 minutes or so when I use a
compressor operated vacuum clamp when sanding drawer components and using
that clamp as a stop when attaching slide rails to the drawers. Basically I
hear it cycle on and off 40-50 times in a short morning. If I were to do
this in a production shop setting day after day the water level could get
that high if not drained daily. In a larger setting I have seen gangs of
120 gallon compressors that ran non stop, during the day, produce gallons of
water everyday day, the only time those 8 compressors were not running was
then they were turned off. Basically if the compressor runs a lot and you
don't drain the tank it will eventually contain a lot a water especially in
a humid environment. Personally I keep the drain slightly cracked open all
the time and let the condensation drip out onto a micro fiber towel. I turn
it off after use, draining all at once daily after each use created too big
of a mess. ;~)

krw wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2009 20:18:26 GMT, Nova wrote:


Lew Hodgett wrote:

"krw" wrote:



What's wrong with copper? Copper tubing is still pretty cheap.


Think your database needs an update on copper prices.

Lew



The price of copper has come down quite a bit over the last couple of
months:

1/2" x 10' Type M copper pipe - $6.76
1/2" x 10' Type L copper pipe - $9.68

A few months ago I paid $68.00 for a 250' roll of 14/2 Romex. Last week
it was down to $23.00.


Where? I'd pick op three or four at that price! It was $41 at lowes
on the way home. I'll be finishing the (u)FROG over the next year or
so and would buy ahead if it were down that far.

It was the contractor price at one of out local building supply places,
Lenco Lumber. I checked their web site this AM and their regular price
without the contractor discount today is $34.29 for 250'.

http://www.lencobuffalo.com/

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Thu, 14 May 2009 16:12:14 -0500, Jack Stein
wrote:

I'm also thinking when/if it rusts through, it will go pfsssssh instead
of boooom.:-)

Think away.

Beyond that, I'm completely ignorant about the details of the steel
that is used for these tanks. Maybe the typical tank-steel rusts
very slowly.

Maybe they use, or used to use, or some use, a rust resistant, high
nickel or something type of metal.

Maybe.

Would you go into a disco with an epileptic...when the epileptic had a
loaded gun pointing at your head? It has similar risks to an
uninspected uninsurable pressure vessel.

(answers such as I can't dance and I wouldn't go into a disco are not
permitted)

:-)



--

"Mike" wrote in message
...


Would you go into a disco with an epileptic...when the epileptic had a
loaded gun pointing at your head? It has similar risks to an
uninspected uninsurable pressure vessel.


Actually, analogies like this are where things break down. The likelihood
of a compressor tank exploding is dramatically less than the predictability
of the result you staged with your example. The risks are completely
dissimilar.

--

-Mike-

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 May 2009 16:12:14 -0500, Jack Stein


Would you go into a disco with an epileptic...when the epileptic had a
loaded gun pointing at your head? It has similar risks to an
uninspected uninsurable pressure vessel.

Actually I think a closer comparison would be the epiletic hoalding a loaded
gun to your head and an eliletic pointing a loaded gun at a pressurized
container that you are setting on.
As story hungry as the media is I don't recall having ever heard of an air
compressor exploding and I have worked around compresssors for my entire
professional career.

On Mon, 18 May 2009 16:54:25 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

As story hungry as the media is I don't recall having ever heard of an air
compressor exploding and I have worked around compresssors for my entire
professional career.

And I doubt that you will hear of one caused by rust through. Failure
of a pressure relief valve along with simultaneous failure of a
pressure shut off valve could cause overpressurization to the point of
catastrophic failure in a tank in good condition. Rust through will
weaken a tank wall to the point that pinhole leaks will develop at the
weakest points. Those pinholes could grow due to the escaping airflow,
but in doing so, would act as a pressure relief valve reducing the
tank pressure. Catastrophic, shrapnel producing tank failure due to
rust through is a very low probability occurrence.

My opinion, unsupported by any indepth analysis, is that being brained
by a meteorite is about as likely as being injured by a rust through
failure of a shop compressor tank.

And no, I'm not saying rust through failures don't occur and people
have been hit by meteorites. I'm sure someone's second cousin thrice
removed has a neighbor who knew someone who'd heard of about a
pressure tank exploding due to rust through..

Tom Veatch wrote in
:


And I doubt that you will hear of one caused by rust through. Failure
of a pressure relief valve along with simultaneous failure of a
pressure shut off valve could cause overpressurization to the point of
catastrophic failure in a tank in good condition. Rust through will
weaken a tank wall to the point that pinhole leaks will develop at the
weakest points. Those pinholes could grow due to the escaping airflow,
but in doing so, would act as a pressure relief valve reducing the
tank pressure. Catastrophic, shrapnel producing tank failure due to
rust through is a very low probability occurrence.

My opinion, unsupported by any indepth analysis, is that being brained
by a meteorite is about as likely as being injured by a rust through
failure of a shop compressor tank.

And no, I'm not saying rust through failures don't occur and people
have been hit by meteorites. I'm sure someone's second cousin thrice
removed has a neighbor who knew someone who'd heard of about a
pressure tank exploding due to rust through..

Water would tend to collect in the bottom of the tank first, and that's
where the rust would occur, right? So by the time the bottom of the tank
has rusted out, the sides and top of the tank would still be in good
shape. Should the right conditions occur, I think it more likely a
compressor tank act as a rocket and not a bomb.

Puckdropper
--
"The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the
reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on
rec.woodworking

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
...

Water would tend to collect in the bottom of the tank first, and that's
where the rust would occur, right?

NO! Like a glass of ice water the water would collect on all cooler
surfaces, basically every square inch of the interior surface of the tank.
Compared to the very hot compressed air going into the tank, the tank is
quite cool in contrast. Then as the moisture condensed more, it would run
down to the bottom and collect, but the whole tank is going to be wet.


So by the time the bottom of the tank
has rusted out, the sides and top of the tank would still be in good
shape.

No, see above.


Should the right conditions occur, I think it more likely a
compressor tank act as a rocket and not a bomb.

No, Pin holes will develope all over the surface. I had an old 80 gallon
compressor, that I inherited, develope pin holes near the center of the
sides of the tankfirst, none were at the bottom.

The above is true if the compressor is use regularily. If you store it for
years on end with water in side and bring up the pressure the bottom may
fall out then.

"Leon" wrote in
:


"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
...

Water would tend to collect in the bottom of the tank first, and
that's where the rust would occur, right?

NO! Like a glass of ice water the water would collect on all cooler
surfaces, basically every square inch of the interior surface of the
tank. Compared to the very hot compressed air going into the tank, the
tank is quite cool in contrast. Then as the moisture condensed more,
it would run down to the bottom and collect, but the whole tank is
going to be wet.


So by the time the bottom of the tank
has rusted out, the sides and top of the tank would still be in good
shape.

No, see above.


Should the right conditions occur, I think it more likely a
compressor tank act as a rocket and not a bomb.

No, Pin holes will develope all over the surface. I had an old 80
gallon compressor, that I inherited, develope pin holes near the
center of the sides of the tankfirst, none were at the bottom.

The above is true if the compressor is use regularily. If you store
it for years on end with water in side and bring up the pressure the
bottom may fall out then.



Ah, I see there's more to the story than I had originally thought. Would
a light-use (that doesn't cycle often) compressor tend to act like the
stored tank?

Puckdropper
--
"The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the
reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on
rec.woodworking

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
...



Ah, I see there's more to the story than I had originally thought. Would
a light-use (that doesn't cycle often) compressor tend to act like the
stored tank?


I was referring 10-20+ years with water stored inside. If it simply sat the
condensation would eventually settle to the bottom. Then it may fail in a
particular area. If it sat long enough that there was considerable rust
around the perimeter of the stored water and you then added pressure there
might be a more dramatic failure, if the large rust area suddenly gave way.
Typically however the weakest point will be a pin point leak that could grow
in size over time

Mike wrote:
Jack Stein wrote:

I'm also thinking when/if it rusts through, it will go pfsssssh instead
of boooom.:-)

Think away.

Does that mean you think it will do something different? If so, what
and what makes you think so? I've never heard of one going boom but
even then, I would think it would be less than spectacular.

Beyond that, I'm completely ignorant about the details of the steel
that is used for these tanks. Maybe the typical tank-steel rusts
very slowly.
Maybe they use, or used to use, or some use, a rust resistant, high
nickel or something type of metal.

Maybe.

Well, what do you think makes tanks that are constantly wet last for 30
- 50 years and more?

Would you go into a disco with an epileptic...when the epileptic had a
loaded gun pointing at your head? It has similar risks to an
uninspected uninsurable pressure vessel.

I've been around stuff, and doing stuff that OSHA would have cardiac
arrest over for my entire life. So far, even though I may have been
lucky a time or two, I'm still alive and well, no serious damage. I
feel somewhat comfortable with my judgment so far. As for insurablity,
I've never needed a sure thing to survive, and wouldn't want to live
that way anyway. When I got my first mower that the mower deck shut off
when you went in reverse, I immediately disconnected the dammed thing...
I like living on the "edge" and don't need no stinking insurance
company, or government, to force me to their levels of safety. I've
been using table saws without a guard for close to 50 years, and have no
plan on sticking one on now. They look downright dangerous to me...

(answers such as I can't dance and I wouldn't go into a disco are not
permitted)

Well, I can dance with a sufficiently loose definition of the word
dance, and sufficiently large enough consumption of alcohol, and there
is a fine line between being able to "dance" and being unable to walk to
the dance floor...

--
Jack
Go Penns!
http://jbstein.com

I would be more worried about the lost capacity in the tank if it not
drained regularly.

I have never seen a tank go south and that includes reservoirs on ships that
were 40 years old.

I lean toward small pumps but like to mount reservoirs in the system for
pressure stability.

I have two small compressors selected for their noise level and kept in
clean areas in the basement.

They have automatic float type drains but small tanks.

Since water does not compress like air, I would be more worried about loss
of air stowage.

I don't think I have ever had a pump outlast a tank.

Piping is a different issue especially with all the oil free pump ends that
are out there nowadays.


"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
...

Water would tend to collect in the bottom of the tank first, and that's
where the rust would occur, right?

NO! Like a glass of ice water the water would collect on all cooler
surfaces, basically every square inch of the interior surface of the tank.
Compared to the very hot compressed air going into the tank, the tank is
quite cool in contrast. Then as the moisture condensed more, it would run
down to the bottom and collect, but the whole tank is going to be wet.


So by the time the bottom of the tank
has rusted out, the sides and top of the tank would still be in good
shape.

No, see above.


Should the right conditions occur, I think it more likely a
compressor tank act as a rocket and not a bomb.

No, Pin holes will develope all over the surface. I had an old 80 gallon
compressor, that I inherited, develope pin holes near the center of the
sides of the tankfirst, none were at the bottom.

The above is true if the compressor is use regularily. If you store it
for years on end with water in side and bring up the pressure the bottom
may fall out then.