I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

Palm and orbital are really different animals. The orbital will take
off more material but with a light hand it can do generally the same
job as a palm and is therefore more versatile.

Hook and loop is the way to go. The pad portion on th sander can be
replaced after it wears out. Your other option is the stickem variety
and not good. No one has invented a way to use regular paper on a
round orbital yet that I have seen.

All things being equal, go for the most amps you can get for the
dollar.

On Mar 30, 11:38*am, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

"Greg Guarino" wrote:

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was,
but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

5" will get a lot of work done.

If you are an ocassional user as you suggest, it will certainly be
acceptable.

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Your choices are H&L and PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive).

H&L paper is slightly more expensive by a small amount.

Personally, I prefer H&L since trying to keep a PSA surface clean is
more of a PITA than I am willing to accept.

Lew


Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

Greg Guarino wrote:
....
I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.
....

I'd recommend the 5" for casual/occasional use.

I'm partial to the PC although I don't like the new revisions as well as
those of roughly 10 years ago. But, if you only use it occasionally for
relatively short periods at a time you'll probably not ever observe the
primary problem of the pad "brake" -- it's just an o-ring around a fixed
stud. W/ continuous use the friction heats the sucker to the point of
discomfort and fries bearings early. I remove it first thing on a new one.

As opposed to the other two earlier posts, I prefer the PSA for the bulk
of the work although if one changes grits frequently H&L has some
advantage. Again, for light/infrequent use, the cost of abrasive is
probably of no concern but H&L is roughly 50% more than PSA and w/ heavy
use it adds up.

I keep about three and have both H&L and PSA pads for at least two of
them so can simply switch at a whim depending on what am doing at the time.

Overall, they're basically throwaway items -- if at all possible go to a
place and handle them; comfort and feel and convenience of on/off switch
is a biggie. I personally haven't found any other that is nearly as
comfortable ergonomically as the PC and its knockoffs. Many of the
others are taller, have sharper corners, lousy switch designs or other
pita details...

--

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"Greg Guarino" wrote:

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

5" will get a lot of work done.

If you are an ocassional user as you suggest, it will certainly be
acceptable.

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Your choices are H&L and PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive).

H&L paper is slightly more expensive by a small amount.

Personally, I prefer H&L since trying to keep a PSA surface clean is more
of a PITA than I am willing to accept.

Lew


Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino


Agreed on all of Lew's points. The stick 'em discs suck. If you forget
once to take it off, you'll spend more time cleaning the pad than sanding
your next project. Going with an outfit like:

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/

It is possible to stock your sandpaper needs for years to come pretty darned
cheaply.

About 15 years ago I bought a Sears Industrial 4.5" model and quickly
converted it to H&L. About a year ago, I replaced the pad. It runs every
bit as it should and does a great job. I think all of theirs are H&L and 5"
these days.

Ed

"dpb" wrote:


..... the cost of abrasive is probably of no concern but H&L is
roughly 50% more than PSA and w/ heavy use it adds up.

If you pay a 50% premium for H&L, somebody saw you coming.

I use 6" on a Bosch 3727 and last time I bought paper, 60 grit and
finer was less than $25/100 (std box) for H&L.

Maybe you need to find a new source.

Lew

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote:

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/

Very pricey.

Lew

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
...
I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

I have several sanders:
Milwaukee 6010 orbital 1/2 sheet
Makita BO4556 1/4 sheet
Porter Cable 7336, 6" ROS, (PSA)
Ridgid 26001, 5" ROS, (hook & loop)
Ridgid 2611, 6", ROS, " "
Bosch 3727, 6", " " "
Milwaukee 6021-21, 5", ROS (H & L)
plus belt sanders of various sizes.

The sheet sanders, bought before the ROS were widely available, rarely gets
used.
The Milwaukee ROS gets the *most* use.
The Porter Cable is the most aggressive, (I believe it's because the
abrasive sheet is more firmly attached, but that's just MHO)
I *think* you would be most satisfied with the Milwaukee 6021 (but that's
just MHO)

Max

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote:

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/

Very pricey.

Lew


Where do you buy?

Ed

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote:

Where do you buy?


Klingspor.

Buy boxes of 100/grit/box.

Have them shipped UPS.

Lew

PS: Sometimes need to buy more than one box to meet minimum order.

Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

Here's an orbital sander for $12.00 that uses regular sand paper.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=40070

Here's a hook-and-loop palm sander for $13.00
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98622

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
...
I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...+

NO not too small. I have been using that size for 20+ years. Random orbit
sanders can ve very agressive so large is not needed to cover a large area
quick.


Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

You want to up grade from regular paper. Why! Because regular paper will
never fit as tightly as hook and loop or PSA backed paper. Why is this
improtant? Becase all of the action og the sander and paper is transmitted
to the work. Regular clamp fit paper tends to permit the sander pad to not
transfer all the action to the paper and work. In many cases the paper will
simply grab the work and let the sander vibrate on the back side of the
paper and often the only work being done is when you are moving the sander.

Hook and loop is prefable if you dont wear your sand paper out before
changing grits. If you use only one grit and always remove the paper after
a day of use, PSA, Pressure Sensitive Adhesive sand paper is cheaper. Hook
and loop is probably your best bet.


Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Porter Cable, DeWalt



Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

On Mar 30, 5:53*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

...

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...+

NO not too small. * I have been using that size for 20+ years. *Random orbit
sanders can ve very agressive so large is not needed to cover a large area
quick.



Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

You want to up grade from regular paper. *Why! *Because regular paper will
never fit as tightly as hook *and loop or PSA backed paper. *Why is this
improtant? *Becase all of the action og the sander and paper is transmitted
to the work. *Regular clamp fit paper tends to permit the sander pad to not
transfer all the action to the paper and work. *In many cases the paper will
simply grab the work and let the sander vibrate on the back side of the
paper and often the only work being done is when you are moving the sander.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:38:21 GMT, Greg Guarino
wrote:

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino


Milwaulkee makes an excellent ROS.
Small projects, small sanders,
Big projects, big sanders.

There are ROS that use self-sick sandpapers. The hook-and-loop type
is better for changing papers quickly and better at being reusable.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"Ed Edelenbos" wrote:

Where do you buy?


Klingspor.

Buy boxes of 100/grit/box.

Have them shipped UPS.

Lew

PS: Sometimes need to buy more than one box to meet minimum order.


Ah... I don't need anywhere near that quantity. For what I need, Stockroom
is fine. And, sometimes more time is spent trying to save money than money
is saved. (If that makes sense.)

Ed

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...


There are ROS that use self-sick sandpapers. The hook-and-loop type
is better for changing papers quickly and better at being reusable.


I'm gonna defend PSA paper a little bit here. A "good quality" PSA paper is
no harder or slower to replace than a Hook & Loop paper. For many years I
used 3M PSA paper exclusively, I got it for free. The body shop guys would
not have put up with a hard to replace paper had PSA been a PIA to use.

After leaving the automotive business and loosing my free source for 3M
paper I switched to Porter Cable paper and it was just as easy to deal
with.

Then as per the advice given here, recommending Klingspore paper, I bought a
roll of PSA disks. That stuff was CRAP! It sanded well but I now know why
so many consider the PSA paper a PIA to remove. Klingspore offered no help.
I just knew that I had a bad roll, apparently not. Good PSA paper "does
not" need a peel off separator to keep the adhesive from sticking to the
pieces below.

Oddly I now only use H&L or until Festool makes pads to accept it.

On Mar 30, 6:42*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Phisherman" wrote in message

...



There are ROS that use self-sick sandpapers. * The hook-and-loop type
is better for changing papers quickly and better at being reusable.

I'm gonna defend PSA paper a little bit here. *A "good quality" PSA paper is
no harder or slower to replace than a Hook & Loop paper. *For many years I
used 3M PSA paper exclusively, I got it for free. *The body shop guys would
not have put up with a hard to replace paper had PSA been a PIA to use.

After leaving the automotive business and loosing my free source for 3M
paper I switched to Porter Cable *paper and it was just as easy to deal
with.

Then as per the advice given here, recommending Klingspore paper, I bought a
roll of PSA disks. *That stuff was CRAP! *It sanded well but I now know why
so many consider the PSA paper a PIA to remove. *Klingspore offered no help.
I just knew that I had a bad roll, apparently not. *Good PSA paper "does
not" need a peel off separator to keep the adhesive from sticking to the
pieces below.

Oddly I now only use H&L or until Festool makes pads to accept it.

Then there is that little known problem that Hook & Loop and Velcro do
not always play nice together. I seem to recall, there is also a
third player in the H&L business, again, a wee bit different.

The Festool H&L grabs Mirka Abranet like dog snot to a screen door,
some of the pads on other sanders, such as Ridgid, not so much. The
Lee Valley replacement hook pad, doesn't hang onto all papers either.

"Robatoy" wrote:

Then there is that little known problem that Hook & Loop and Velcro do
not always play nice together. I seem to recall, there is also a
third player in the H&L business, again, a wee bit different.

The Festool H&L grabs Mirka Abranet like dog snot to a screen door,
some of the pads on other sanders, such as Ridgid, not so much. The
Lee Valley replacement hook pad, doesn't hang onto all papers either.

================================
SFWIW, Klingspor H&L works well with Bosch 3727.

If you do any work with a foam pad, you are stuck with PSA, with 3M
"green stikit" being the best.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"dpb" wrote:


..... the cost of abrasive is probably of no concern but H&L is
roughly 50% more than PSA and w/ heavy use it adds up.

If you pay a 50% premium for H&L, somebody saw you coming.

Klingspor, typically. Been a while since needed to reorder I
checked--seems closer than I recalled at the moment; about 25-30%
differential. Not huge unless use a lot as we were when prepping the
barn...

--

"dpb" wrote:

Klingspor, typically. Been a while since needed to reorder I
checked--seems closer than I recalled at the moment; about 25-30%
differential. Not huge unless use a lot as we were when prepping
the barn...

I use Klingspor.

100pc/grit/box are less than $25/box for 6" H&L.

The only exception is 40 grit which is maybe $26-$28/box.

Lew

The absolute best one ? MILWAUKEE ! I've got a DeWalt and a Porter
Cable and they don't come close . Incredible as it seems , the MILWAUKEE
cost $69.00 and comes with a case .

On Mar 30, 7:25*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote:

Then there is that little known problem that Hook & Loop and Velcro do
not always play nice together. *I seem to recall, there is also a
third player in the H&L business, again, a wee bit different.

The Festool H&L grabs Mirka Abranet like dog snot to a screen door,
some of the pads on other sanders, such as Ridgid, not so much. The
Lee Valley replacement hook pad, doesn't hang onto all papers either.

================================

SFWIW, Klingspor H&L works well with Bosch 3727.

Das ist ein Deutsche Konspiracy!!!

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:25:13 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

like dog snot to a screen door

That's a new one on me. I assume you mean that it holds well, but
lacking both dogs and knee-height screens, I can't be sure.

Thanks to all for the great info. A high traffic group like this is a
real boon to a hobbyist with more questions than skills.

I now feel confident that a ROS with hook & loop will suit my needs.
Thanks especially to the person who explained why H&L is functionally
superior to clamped plain paper.

Greg Guarino

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...


I've been watching this thread with interest, and I'm really intrigued
that no one has mentioned air power.

Did you miss the opening statements,

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf unit
or some other "box with face frame" level of project.

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:25:13 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

like dog snot to a screen door

That's a new one on me. I assume you mean that it holds well, but
lacking both dogs and knee-height screens, I can't be sure.

Thanks to all for the great info. A high traffic group like this is a
real boon to a hobbyist with more questions than skills.

I now feel confident that a ROS with hook & loop will suit my needs.
Thanks especially to the person who explained why H&L is functionally
superior to clamped plain paper.

Greg Guarino


Now that you have made your decision, let me also warn you about hook and
loop and PSA sand paper. ;~) Because this type sand paper wears out on the
business side and not all over it is often difficult to determine when to
change out to a new sheet. Clamp on paper often simply falls off or tears
and that is your indicator. With the PSA and hook and loop papers the
minerals typically wear out and the paper may appear to still be in very
good shape. Even worn out minerals can look brand new especially if you use
an attached vacuum.
Several ways to determine if you need to change sheets.

1. Does the sander seem to not be working as fast?
2. Have you been using the paper more than 15 minutes?
3. With your finger rub the mineral surface of the paper you are using and
compare its sharpness to a brand new sheet, same grit.

If you buy a sander with a port to use with a shop vac your paper will last
longer and most likely your paper will look fine although it may be worn out
after a period of sanding. This is one trait that I had a hard time getting
use to when I switched to Festool sanders and use the vac at the same time.

Greg Guarino wrote:

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino


I concur with Phisherman. I bought a Milwalkee random orbit sander with
hook and loop, or my wife did for my birthday, a few months back. My only
complaint is, "Why didn't I do this years ago!" I have a Dewalt palm
sander than now is like "Mr. Mop" on the Swifter commercials.

Deb

On Mar 31, 12:47*am, Charlie Groh wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:01:35 -0600, (Gene Tracy)
wrote:

* The absolute best one ? MILWAUKEE ! I've got a DeWalt and a Porter
Cable and they don't come close . Incredible as it seems , the MILWAUKEE
cost $69.00 and comes with a case .

...I'd say Milwaukee simply on the basis of every other product of
theirs that I own...goooood stuff. *That said my 5" ROS broke down the
other day (it's a Porter Cable and has been worked to death...RIP, it
did a good job!) and I ended up combining a couple of trips and stood
in front of the Home Depot display. *I walked out with the Rigid (for
69 bux)...curiosity drove the purchase (I know Rigid makes a pretty
decent product, so was reasonably sure the sander wouldn't be *bad*),
got it home, hooked it up and was pleasently surprised...at least I
know it's a step or two above my dead PC. *I like the ergonomics and
the speed adjustment was a nice, new (to me!) touch. *Takes 8 hole
paper but I've been using universals for awhile so that was no prob...

cg

The Home Depot Ridgid line is spotty at best. For instance, their 6"
ROS, the 2610, was made by Metabo in Germany and is an excellent
sander. It was superseded (improved????) by the 6" 2611, which by all
accounts sucks canal water. They look very similar, but it is another
typical example of some MBA in some engineering dept came up with a
'better' way to make an extra few dollars per sander by sending the
job off-shore. Conversely, Sears Craftsman had a router built by Bosch
which is a good router, not cheap, but a good piece of equipment.
You just have to learn to flip over rocks and see what crawls out from
under.

On Mar 31, 12:47*am, Charlie Groh wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:01:35 -0600, (Gene Tracy)
wrote:

* The absolute best one ? MILWAUKEE ! I've got a DeWalt and a Porter
Cable and they don't come close . Incredible as it seems , the MILWAUKEE
cost $69.00 and comes with a case .

...I'd say Milwaukee simply on the basis of every other product of
theirs that I own...goooood stuff. *That said my 5" ROS broke down the
other day (it's a Porter Cable and has been worked to death...RIP, it
did a good job!) and I ended up combining a couple of trips and stood
in front of the Home Depot display. *I walked out with the Rigid (for
69 bux)...curiosity drove the purchase (I know Rigid makes a pretty
decent product, so was reasonably sure the sander wouldn't be *bad*),
got it home, hooked it up and was pleasently surprised...at least I
know it's a step or two above my dead PC. *I like the ergonomics and
the speed adjustment was a nice, new (to me!) touch. *Takes 8 hole
paper but I've been using universals for awhile so that was no prob...

cg

Hear hear on the Milwaukee products. Porter Cable is a mere shadow of
its former self, mostly inferior stuff these days.
DeWalt is also highly overrated in my opinion. Both those brands meant
something 20 years ago, now they're marketing companies.
The spot those guys filled back then are now handled by the Festool,
Fein, and Milwaukee brands, with a few others. True professional
grades. I absolutely love Milwaukee routers... especially the big
fella.

I wonder how much money I have spent figuring some of that out. The
other day, I was at my old shop, and looked at the 25-year old Porter
Cable production router. All cast, big heavy brute. Then they were
replaced with the 'new 4.2" motors, and they weren't so great anymore.
Then they dropped another couple of plasticized notches. Now they're
good for 6-months to a year. Not 3-5 years. (Keep in mind these run
all day.)

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
If you buy a sander with a port to use with a shop vac your paper will
last
longer and most likely your paper will look fine although it may be worn
out
after a period of sanding.

I was wondering about that. For the past twenty years, I've used a small
Makita pad sander. I've just recently bought a DeWalt orbital 8 hole
sander
with attached dust collector (which I have yet to use).
1) I was wondering if through experience (feel, touch, sound, whatever)
one
can realize that it's time to replace the sandpaper

My first indicator is that it seems to take a bit longer to get the job
done, I feel the work. Then I pick the sander up and feel the paper.


and 2) aside from the
small dust collection bag becoming filled, is there any greater benefit to
connecting it to a shop vac instead?

Probably better dust control, the supply of suction is endless. Next, the
sander pretty much stays clean, even when sanding something like face frames
when the sander hangs over the edge of the work. A warning however, you may
need to clamp down small pieces, variable speed on the vac is almost a must.
You can have too much suction and that will actually work against you. You
want just enough suction to keep the area clear of dust.

YMMV. Festool sanders blow air through the center of the paper out to the
outer holes which suck up the dust.

"Leon" wrote in message
If you buy a sander with a port to use with a shop vac your paper will
last
longer and most likely your paper will look fine although it may be worn
out
after a period of sanding.

I was wondering about that. For the past twenty years, I've used a small
Makita pad sander. I've just recently bought a DeWalt orbital 8 hole sander
with attached dust collector (which I have yet to use).
1) I was wondering if through experience (feel, touch, sound, whatever) one
can realize that it's time to replace the sandpaper and 2) aside from the
small dust collection bag becoming filled, is there any greater benefit to
connecting it to a shop vac instead?

Leon wrote:
"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...

I've been watching this thread with interest, and I'm really intrigued
that no one has mentioned air power.

Did you miss the opening statements,

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf unit
or some other "box with face frame" level of project.

Well no, but since when have people in this forum ever refrained from
going off on a tangent? :-) This thread's already full of that...

--
For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Lew Hodgett wrote:
....
100pc/grit/box are less than $25/box for 6" H&L.
....

I've never found a catalog number for H&L for more than 50/box at
Klingspor (nor for Mirka from Woodworkers Supply or others as well) --
that's part of the problem making the price differential ime.

It does seem that the differential isn't as great as was from a number
of years ago when were going thru so much, though...hard to believe that
was 5 years ago now--where _does_ the time go???

--

On Mar 31, 9:45*am, Steve Turner wrote:
Leon wrote:
"Steve Turner" wrote in message
. ..

I've been watching this thread with interest, and I'm really intrigued
that no one has mentioned air power.

Did you miss the opening statements,

*I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf unit
or some other "box with face frame" level of project.

Well no, but since when have people in this forum ever refrained from
going off on a tangent? *:-) *This thread's already full of that...

--
For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Especially since everything is Clinton's fault.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Steve Turner" wrote:

I've been watching this thread with interest, and I'm really
intrigued that no one has mentioned air power. A couple of years
ago a fellow woodworker turned me on to Dynabrade sanders and
they're such a joy to use that I've all but thrown away my electric
sanders:
snip
You do need a fairly substantial air compressor to run them (the
Supreme eats a LOT of air; the Spirit is not nearly so hungry), but
if you have the air power I would give these sanders serious
consideration. Lots of power, and the speed is infinitely
adjustable (up to the maximum of 12,000 RPM), first with an
adjustment knob to regulate the incoming air pressure, then on
demand by varying the amount of palm pressure you apply to the main
lever.

As you note, air supply is the issue, in the range of 15 SCFM.

For a typical home shop with only single phase power, a 5HP,
240V,1PH,60HZ motor driving a 2 stage compressor setting on a verticl
80 gal tank.

No way. I've got a single stage compressor with a 60 gallon tank (3HP,
220V) and with the "Spirit" sander in continuous use the motor on the
compressor only runs about 20% of the time. With the "Supreme" the
motor runs quite a bit more, maybe 60% of the time. Granted, that's
more compressor than the average home shop probably has, but it's not
THAT out of the question. I can run the Spirit on my small Porter Cable
compressor, but it does keep the motor running pretty much continuously.

PRICE: About $1,200 + installation which will require a 2P-40A c'bkr
and #8 AWG minimum, (#6 AWG preferred)..

It gets pricey in a hurry.

A compressor equivalent to the one I'm using is a common item at the
Borg, and they "only" cost about $500.

But I really wouldn't expect somebody to consider a Dynabrade sander as
a replacement for an electric unless they already *have* a decent air
compressor.

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:22:25 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:25:13 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

like dog snot to a screen door

That's a new one on me. I assume you mean that it holds well, but
lacking both dogs and knee-height screens, I can't be sure.

Thanks to all for the great info. A high traffic group like this is a
real boon to a hobbyist with more questions than skills.

I now feel confident that a ROS with hook & loop will suit my needs.
Thanks especially to the person who explained why H&L is functionally
superior to clamped plain paper.

Greg Guarino


Now that you have made your decision, let me also warn you about hook and
loop and PSA sand paper. ;~) Because this type sand paper wears out on the
business side and not all over it is often difficult to determine when to
change out to a new sheet. Clamp on paper often simply falls off or tears
and that is your indicator.

I'm sure I'll need to develop a new "feel" for a new type of tool, but
even with my modest skill set, it was only in my laziest moments that
I waited for the paper to actually tear before I replaced it. It's
self-defeating laziness too, leaving on a piece that's as effective as
typing paper only lengthens the job.

Thanks again.

Greg Guarino

With the PSA and hook and loop papers the
minerals typically wear out and the paper may appear to still be in very
good shape. Even worn out minerals can look brand new especially if you use
an attached vacuum.
Several ways to determine if you need to change sheets.

1. Does the sander seem to not be working as fast?
2. Have you been using the paper more than 15 minutes?
3. With your finger rub the mineral surface of the paper you are using and
compare its sharpness to a brand new sheet, same grit.

If you buy a sander with a port to use with a shop vac your paper will last
longer and most likely your paper will look fine although it may be worn out
after a period of sanding. This is one trait that I had a hard time getting
use to when I switched to Festool sanders and use the vac at the same time.

Robatoy wrote:
On Mar 31, 9:45 am, Steve Turner wrote:
Well no, but since when have people in this forum ever refrained from
going off on a tangent? :-) This thread's already full of that...

Especially since everything is Clinton's fault.

**** disturber. :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Robatoy" wrote in message
The spot those guys filled back then are now handled by the Festool,
Fein, and Milwaukee brands, with a few others. True professional
grades. I absolutely love Milwaukee routers...

Isn't Milwaukee primarily build overseas now? That's what I was told and it
played a large part in my buying a number DeWalt cordless tools. My previous
cordless drill (a 12v model bought about 15 years ago) *was* a Milwaukee and
was a decent tool.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
when the sander hangs over the edge of the work. A warning however, you
may
need to clamp down small pieces, variable speed on the vac is almost a
must.

Misread your message. My ROS is variable speed, but I don't have a
variable
speed vac per se, however it does have adjustable air flow inlet on the
hose. I'm hoping that can do the same thing.



You should be fine.

"Leon" wrote in message
need to clamp down small pieces, variable speed on the vac is almost a
must.
You can have too much suction and that will actually work against you.
You
want just enough suction to keep the area clear of dust.

Ok, thanks. Fortunately, I did buy the variable speed ROS.
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/to...productID=9434

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:04:01 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:


"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
I waited for the paper to actually tear before I replaced it. It's
self-defeating laziness too, leaving on a piece that's as effective as
typing paper only lengthens the job.

Hey, consider the benefits. You get to go from sanding to polishing
non-stop.

I'm seeing a whole new product idea now, a layer cake of three
different grits, then friction-activated poly, steel wool, poly, steel
wool, paste wax, buffer., all to fit a "Roomba"-type robot sander. We
could get Ron Popeil to sell it "Just set it...and forget it!".

Greg Guarino