"Leon" wrote in message
when the sander hangs over the edge of the work. A warning however, you
may
need to clamp down small pieces, variable speed on the vac is almost a
must.

Misread your message. My ROS is variable speed, but I don't have a variable
speed vac per se, however it does have adjustable air flow inlet on the
hose. I'm hoping that can do the same thing.

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
I waited for the paper to actually tear before I replaced it. It's
self-defeating laziness too, leaving on a piece that's as effective as
typing paper only lengthens the job.

Hey, consider the benefits. You get to go from sanding to polishing
non-stop.

Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:04:01 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
I waited for the paper to actually tear before I replaced it. It's
self-defeating laziness too, leaving on a piece that's as effective as
typing paper only lengthens the job.
Hey, consider the benefits. You get to go from sanding to polishing
non-stop.

I'm seeing a whole new product idea now, a layer cake of three
different grits, then friction-activated poly, steel wool, poly, steel
wool, paste wax, buffer., all to fit a "Roomba"-type robot sander. We
could get Ron Popeil to sell it "Just set it...and forget it!".

And that's not all - if you order in the next fifteen minutes, we'll
also send you our new in-line sawdust compactor attachment that
compresses your sawdust into easy-to-dispose-of #2 biscuits!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Mar 31, 11:16*am, Morris Dovey wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:04:01 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
I waited for the paper to actually tear before I replaced it. It's
self-defeating laziness too, leaving on a piece that's as effective as
typing paper only lengthens the job.
Hey, consider the benefits. You get to go from sanding to polishing
non-stop. *

I'm seeing a whole new product idea now, a layer cake of three
different grits, then friction-activated poly, steel wool, poly, steel
wool, paste wax, buffer., all to fit a "Roomba"-type robot sander. We
could get Ron Popeil to sell it "Just set it...and forget it!".

And that's not all - if you order in the next fifteen minutes, we'll
also send you our new in-line sawdust compactor attachment that
compresses your sawdust into easy-to-dispose-of #2 biscuits!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

ONLY $ 25.95!!!

*whispers* 3 payments of

ONLY $ 25.95!!!
..
..
*whispers* plus shipping and handling.

Translation: $ 140.00 by the time it gets to your door.

On Mar 31, 10:04*am, Steve Turner wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
On Mar 31, 9:45 am, Steve Turner wrote:
Well no, but since when have people in this forum ever refrained from
going off on a tangent? *:-) *This thread's already full of that....

Especially since everything is Clinton's fault.

**** disturber. *:-)



*haughty sniff*

"Moi??"

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:32:20 -0500, Dr. Deb wrote:

I concur with Phisherman. I bought a Milwalkee random orbit sander with
hook and loop, or my wife did for my birthday, a few months back. My
only complaint is, "Why didn't I do this years ago!"

I haven't used Milwaukee, but it seems to have a good rep. But I'm
surprised nobody has mentioned either Bosch or Festool. Festool is a bit
pricey, but I've had a Bosch ROS for many years and it does everything
well except dust collection - I understand the newer ones are better at
that.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:32:20 -0500, Dr. Deb wrote:

I concur with Phisherman. I bought a Milwalkee random orbit sander with
hook and loop, or my wife did for my birthday, a few months back. My
only complaint is, "Why didn't I do this years ago!"

I haven't used Milwaukee, but it seems to have a good rep. But I'm
surprised nobody has mentioned either Bosch or Festool. Festool is a bit
pricey, but I've had a Bosch ROS for many years and it does everything
well except dust collection - I understand the newer ones are better at
that.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Part of the orig. request was "under $100". I don't think you are allowed
to enter the Festool section of the store for under $100.

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in
:


Part of the orig. request was "under $100". I don't think you are
allowed to enter the Festool section of the store for under $100.


Some stores require you to have at least a hankerchief (there's a word I
haven't heard/seen/used in a long time!) to catch the drool. :-)

Puckdropper
--
On Usenet, no one can hear you laugh. That's a good thing, though, as some
writers are incorrigible.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"dpb" wrote:
I've never found a catalog number for H&L for more than 50/box at
Klingspor (nor for Mirka from Woodworkers Supply or others as
well) --
that's part of the problem making the price differential ime.


That's retail.

They have an industrial section if you order as a business.

Lew

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
...
"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in
:


Part of the orig. request was "under $100". I don't think you are
allowed to enter the Festool section of the store for under $100.


Some stores require you to have at least a hankerchief (there's a word I
haven't heard/seen/used in a long time!) to catch the drool. :-)

I thought that was to wipe the tears from your eyes when you saw the prices.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"dpb" wrote:
I've never found a catalog number for H&L for more than 50/box at
Klingspor (nor for Mirka from Woodworkers Supply or others as
well) --
that's part of the problem making the price differential ime.


That's retail.

They have an industrial section if you order as a business.

I'm sure that's useful for the OP who was self-described as an
infrequent woodworker...

--

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...



Part of the orig. request was "under $100". I don't think you are allowed
to enter the Festool section of the store for under $100.

That is entirely correct! Although you can enter there after you buy a
sander to buy sand paper. ;~)

"dpb" wrote:

I'm sure that's useful for the OP who was self-described as an
infrequent woodworker...

The O/P's issue wasn't consumption, but rather cost which is the turn
our conversation had taken.

Lew

dpb wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"dpb" wrote:
I've never found a catalog number for H&L for more than 50/box at
Klingspor (nor for Mirka from Woodworkers Supply or others as
well) --
that's part of the problem making the price differential ime.


That's retail.

They have an industrial section if you order as a business.

I'm sure that's useful for the OP who was self-described as an
infrequent woodworker...

Doesn't mean he doesn't have a business license. One doesn't have to have a
_woodworking_ business to have a business license.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"dpb" wrote:

I'm sure that's useful for the OP who was self-described as an
infrequent woodworker...

The O/P's issue wasn't consumption, but rather cost which is the turn
our conversation had taken.

Actually, OP only raised the cost on the initial purchase--which is
where the point I made that H&L is more expensive than PSA came
from--and on which I said it probably doesn't make a lot of difference
_UNLESS_ there's high consumption but it is a factor to consider.

And, yes, I'll agree take lashes about the 50% number if it makes you
feel better...

--

"dpb" wrote:

And, yes, I'll agree take lashes about the 50% number if it makes
you feel better...


How many?grin


Lew

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:21:45 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:32:20 -0500, Dr. Deb wrote:

I concur with Phisherman. I bought a Milwalkee random orbit sander

I haven't used Milwaukee, but it seems to have a good rep. But I'm
surprised nobody has mentioned either Bosch or Festool.

Part of the orig. request was "under $100". I don't think you are
allowed to enter the Festool section of the store for under $100.

Can you buy a Milwauke for $100?





--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:21:45 -0400, Ed Edelenbos wrote:

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:32:20 -0500, Dr. Deb wrote:

I concur with Phisherman. I bought a Milwalkee random orbit sander

I haven't used Milwaukee, but it seems to have a good rep. But I'm
surprised nobody has mentioned either Bosch or Festool.

Part of the orig. request was "under $100". I don't think you are
allowed to enter the Festool section of the store for under $100.

Can you buy a Milwauke for $100?


There's a 5" one that comes in between $70 and $80. There's a Bosch that
comes in at around $60.

Ed

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
Palm and orbital are really different animals. The orbital will take
off more material but with a light hand it can do generally the same
job as a palm and is therefore more versatile.

Hook and loop is the way to go. The pad portion on th sander can be
replaced after it wears out. Your other option is the stickem variety
and not good. No one has invented a way to use regular paper on a
round orbital yet that I have seen.


You must be a young whippersnapper... All round (random) orbitals
used regular paper discs held on with a non-setting adhesive that came
in a tube shaped much like a smallish toothpaste tube. Strangely enough
it was known as sanding disc adhesive, and available at any place that
sold the discs, sanders (air powered) or pads. You spread the
adhesive on the pad, waited for it to dry to medium tack and pressed on
the paper. The adhesive would last through several paper changes
mostly depending on how long between changes. Working as a bodyman and
painter in an automotive body shop, I probably went through a few
thousand discs before I left the industry. During normal days, you
might make it a couple of days before having to clean off the adhesive
and reapply it, but it was certain to change on Monday morning. The
pads were a sort of canvas like material before the advent of PSA type
discs. Still have one around here somewhere... Back in the day, the
popular brand was Devilbiss (like for spray guns) and then Rodac took
over for a while. [sigh] So much for the trip down memory lane.

If you really want to experience it like we "usta do", get some spray
contact cement like 3M 77, spray a standard PSA pad with some, spread it
out with your finger and wait for it to tack up, then press on the
paper. Trim around the edge to make it round if you don't have any disc
shaped (non PSA, non H&Loop) around and you're off to the races, so to
speak. How to get it off? Well, if you do it soon enough, it will pull
off just like PSA. If not, you just whip out the torch, fire it up and
briefly heat the surface of the paper (it will typically turn brown, or
black if you over do it. Fairly quickly, while the adhesive is still
warm, pull off the old paper and apply new. You can keep this on for
quite a while before you need to replace the adhesive...

Oh, you ask, does it work with PSA also? Yep, you betcha. Got some old
PSA paper that just doesn't want to stay on? A quick spray, spread and
wait cycle and the paper will stick until you want it off!

However, to answer the original poster's question, which sander to buy
is dependent on how long you want it to last. Which pad is how much
time you want to invest in changing discs. With H&L, you can whip
through the grits pretty fast, and re-use them without major problems.
With PSA, you either need a separate pad (and/or sander) for each grit
you use, or you need some place to stick the discs to when you change
grits. Not all that convenient, and the pressure sensitive glue on the
back of the discs gets contaminated with sawdust and the like, so they
don't work for more than a change or two.
Personally, I use H&L with a 5" pad for 60 through 150 grits, and have
dedicated units with PSA pads for 180, 220, 320 and 400 grit. As I'm
doing turning, I don't need random action heads and just use Milwaukee
angle drills as the units, and built up sponge padded heads with
naugahide surfaces for the PSA pads. Works quite well.

For flat surfaces, an ancient random orbit air sander with (now) 5" pad,
down from the 6" I used in the bodyshop days, and all is well.

--Rick

I've looked at most messages in this thread and I am not sure why no one has
mentioned the samll Bosch palm sander. You tear a regular sheet of sandpaper
in fourths, the grippers on the Bosch hold it very tight and it is very easy
to load. Use the provided punch to make holes in the paper after it is on
the sander, attach it to a vac and you're in business. I use this for most
all sanding and it works great.
Russ
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
...
I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

"Russ Stanton" wrote in message
...
I've looked at most messages in this thread and I am not sure why no one
has mentioned the samll Bosch palm sander. You tear a regular sheet of
sandpaper in fourths, the grippers on the Bosch hold it very tight and it
is very easy to load. Use the provided punch to make holes in the paper
after it is on the sander, attach it to a vac and you're in business. I
use this for most all sanding and it works great.
Russ

Probably because the orig. question (see below) was for a random orbital.
Those quarter sheet sanders are orbital, and they can leave tiny swirls on
the work if you're not careful. Random orbit sanders can (and tend to) give
a better result, for me. YMMV.

Ed


"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
...
I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

True, but the sander that broke was a palm sander that the OP said was
adequate for his use.
"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...
"Russ Stanton" wrote in message
...
I've looked at most messages in this thread and I am not sure why no one
has mentioned the samll Bosch palm sander. You tear a regular sheet of
sandpaper in fourths, the grippers on the Bosch hold it very tight and it
is very easy to load. Use the provided punch to make holes in the paper
after it is on the sander, attach it to a vac and you're in business. I
use this for most all sanding and it works great.
Russ

Probably because the orig. question (see below) was for a random orbital.
Those quarter sheet sanders are orbital, and they can leave tiny swirls on
the work if you're not careful. Random orbit sanders can (and tend to)
give a better result, for me. YMMV.

Ed


"Greg Guarino" wrote in message
...
I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

On Apr 1, 3:29*pm, "Russ Stanton" wrote:
I've looked at most messages in this thread and I am not sure why no one has
mentioned the samll Bosch palm sander. You tear a regular sheet of sandpaper
in fourths, the grippers on the Bosch hold it very tight and it is very easy
to load. Use the provided punch to make holes in the paper after it is on
the sander, attach it to a vac and you're in business. I use this for most
all sanding and it works great.
Russ"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

...

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

I have one of these:
1297DK Bosch. Just love it.

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:31:42 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Apr 1, 3:29*pm, "Russ Stanton" wrote:
I've looked at most messages in this thread and I am not sure why no one has
mentioned the samll Bosch palm sander. You tear a regular sheet of sandpaper
in fourths, the grippers on the Bosch hold it very tight and it is very easy
to load. Use the provided punch to make holes in the paper after it is on
the sander, attach it to a vac and you're in business. I use this for most
all sanding and it works great.
Russ"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

...

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

Getting here late on this one but my 2 cents.....

Have used over the past 8 years Porter Cables, Bosch, Dewalt, (and
seen them all die), now I have a Milwaukee. They were all fine when
new, but not one (with the possible exception of the Dewalt) more than
a year or so before developing problems.
The Milwaukee is very nice! Better, in my opinion, than any of the
others were when new. For about $80 it's where you should start
looking. No doubt you can get a better sander (Festool ?) but for lots
more $$$$.
Oh, and Milwaukee's tools have a 5 years warranty.

Lenny

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:32:53 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:31:42 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Apr 1, 3:29*pm, "Russ Stanton" wrote:
I've looked at most messages in this thread and I am not sure why no one has
mentioned the samll Bosch palm sander. You tear a regular sheet of sandpaper
in fourths, the grippers on the Bosch hold it very tight and it is very easy
to load. Use the provided punch to make holes in the paper after it is on
the sander, attach it to a vac and you're in business. I use this for most
all sanding and it works great.
Russ"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

...

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf
unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until
last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It
was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all
use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but
if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use
regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get
something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

Getting here late on this one but my 2 cents.....

Have used over the past 8 years Porter Cables, Bosch, Dewalt, (and
seen them all die), now I have a Milwaukee. They were all fine when
new, but not one (with the possible exception of the Dewalt) more than
a year or so before developing problems.
The Milwaukee is very nice! Better, in my opinion, than any of the
others were when new. For about $80 it's where you should start
looking. No doubt you can get a better sander (Festool ?) but for lots
more $$$$.
Oh, and Milwaukee's tools have a 5 years warranty.

Lenny

I am considering a Milwaukee, althought the PC I saw has more power,
if I remember correctly. I'm getting the impression that a sander has
an inherently violent mode of operation and can't be expected to last
forever. With any luck what might last you a year will last me ten.

Thanks again to all for more advice than I could have dreamt of. I
even read with interest the comments on things that that are over my
budget, above my volume of use and beyond my skill level. I probably
won't be buying that large compressor for awhile though.

Greg Guarino