I just bought a General International 185 contractors saw. One of the
cast iron wings had an approximately 1/32" crown. In other words,
when the front and back are flush with the saw table, the middle is
about 1/32" higher. My dealer told me to get the middle and front
flush and then use a clamp to flush up the other side. He says that
cast iron "gives". Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?

-Peter De Smidt

Peter De Smidt wrote:
Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?


No it isn't "unreasonable" that it will (might) give but I'd
be ready to ask for a swap if it didn't.

UA100

"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
...
I just bought a General International 185 contractors saw. One of the
cast iron wings had an approximately 1/32" crown. In other words,
when the front and back are flush with the saw table, the middle is
about 1/32" higher. My dealer told me to get the middle and front
flush and then use a clamp to flush up the other side. He says that
cast iron "gives". Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?

He actually said that?!
Cast iron's main virtue is that it is really stiff. If you could find a
clamp big enough, it would shatter rather than bend.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:18:21 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
.. .
I just bought a General International 185 contractors saw. One of the
cast iron wings had an approximately 1/32" crown. In other words,
when the front and back are flush with the saw table, the middle is
about 1/32" higher. My dealer told me to get the middle and front
flush and then use a clamp to flush up the other side. He says that
cast iron "gives". Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?

He actually said that?!
Cast iron's main virtue is that it is really stiff. If you could find a
clamp big enough, it would shatter rather than bend.




it'll flex some. I've done it....

"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
. ..
I just bought a General International 185 contractors saw. One of the
cast iron wings had an approximately 1/32" crown. In other words,
when the front and back are flush with the saw table, the middle is
about 1/32" higher. My dealer told me to get the middle and front
flush and then use a clamp to flush up the other side. He says that
cast iron "gives". Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:32:39 -0700, Bridger wrote:

it'll flex some. I've done it....


I agree that it might flex enough, but I have a problem with that.
According to my straightedge, my saw table is flat, but the extension
wing isn't. If I follow the advice of the dealer, I might be able to
get the edges to line up, but the amount of force needed to bend the
extension wing up, will also act to bend the table down. Since the
materials are the same, I expect that half of the movement will be
from the extension wing, and half of the movement will be from the
already flat table. This will result in the seams matching up but the
surface not being perfectly flat. If I'm right that the crown is
about 1/32", that the table would be off by about 1/64" where the seam
is. I know this isn't very much, but this is a new and expensive (at
least for me) saw. Is this type of flaw par for the course, or is it
something that I should make a bigger deal out of with the dealer?
I'm new to furniture making, and so I don't know what the common
expectations are.

-Peter De Smidt

"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
...


"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
. ..
I just bought a General International 185 contractors saw. One of the
cast iron wings had an approximately 1/32" crown. In other words,
when the front and back are flush with the saw table, the middle is
about 1/32" higher. My dealer told me to get the middle and front
flush and then use a clamp to flush up the other side. He says that
cast iron "gives". Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:32:39 -0700, Bridger wrote:

it'll flex some. I've done it....


I agree that it might flex enough, but I have a problem with that.
According to my straightedge, my saw table is flat, but the extension
wing isn't. If I follow the advice of the dealer, I might be able to
get the edges to line up, but the amount of force needed to bend the
extension wing up, will also act to bend the table down. Since the
materials are the same, I expect that half of the movement will be
from the extension wing, and half of the movement will be from the
already flat table. This will result in the seams matching up but the
surface not being perfectly flat. If I'm right that the crown is
about 1/32", that the table would be off by about 1/64" where the seam
is. I know this isn't very much, but this is a new and expensive (at
least for me) saw. Is this type of flaw par for the course, or is it
something that I should make a bigger deal out of with the dealer?
I'm new to furniture making, and so I don't know what the common
expectations are.

-Peter De Smidt

Peter,

I tend to agree with your assessment that you might introduce a bend to the
table using the suggested clamp method. Another approach is worth
considering: Cast iron is malleable... It is possible that you could
straighten the wing first, and relieve the stress that caused the post
machining crown at the same time. Do this by putting spacers under each end
of the concave up wing and carefully bending the center down with slow and
steady clamp pressure. I've done this with a 22" jointer plane with good
results. I've also read an account of jointer fence castings being tweaked
back into shape by bending at the Powermatic factory. If bending cast iron
back into shape is OK for Powermatic it should be OK for General!

John

I'd tell him to replace it or he'd get the whole damn saw back.

but that's just me

KY

--

http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland


"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
...
I just bought a General International 185 contractors saw. One of the
cast iron wings had an approximately 1/32" crown. In other words,
when the front and back are flush with the saw table, the middle is
about 1/32" higher. My dealer told me to get the middle and front
flush and then use a clamp to flush up the other side. He says that
cast iron "gives". Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?

-Peter De Smidt

Hello Peter,

snip, wings ain't level

Cast iron wings are *extremely* malleable.

All wing bend up or down, I have never met a dead flat one.

Tighten the centre wing bolt first, make sure the middle of the wing is
flush with the cast top above the bolt, average out any bow between the
front and the back of the saw (same amount up or down at each end). Tighten
down the centre bolt. Used a soft face hammer to gently tap the wing into up
or down into place and make the front and back flush as you tighten each
bolt. You will notice drift as you tighten each bolt, the wing will move.
You will learn how much it moves and overcompensate in the opposite
direction to account for drift.

I have put together *way* more table saws than I can count. They are all
like this. If you are expecting them to be perfectly flat and flush with no
effort during assembly, you have unrealistic expectations.

Who did you buy the saw from? What part of the world are you in?

Thanks,

David.

Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.

Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.

Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.

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"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
...
I just bought a General International 185 contractors saw. One of the
cast iron wings had an approximately 1/32" crown. In other words,
when the front and back are flush with the saw table, the middle is
about 1/32" higher. My dealer told me to get the middle and front
flush and then use a clamp to flush up the other side. He says that
cast iron "gives". Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?

He actually said that?!
Cast iron's main virtue is that it is really stiff. If you could find a
clamp big enough, it would shatter rather than bend.


I disagree, 1/32" over ~27", do as the dealer said, it will flex that much.
Greg

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 04:56:46 GMT, "David F. Eisan"
wrote:

Hello Peter,

snip, wings ain't level

Cast iron wings are *extremely* malleable.

All wing bend up or down, I have never met a dead flat one.

Tighten the centre wing bolt first, make sure the middle of the wing is
flush with the cast top above the bolt, average out any bow between the
front and the back of the saw (same amount up or down at each end). Tighten
down the centre bolt. Used a soft face hammer to gently tap the wing into up
or down into place and make the front and back flush as you tighten each
bolt. You will notice drift as you tighten each bolt, the wing will move.
You will learn how much it moves and overcompensate in the opposite
direction to account for drift.

I have put together *way* more table saws than I can count. They are all
like this. If you are expecting them to be perfectly flat and flush with no
effort during assembly, you have unrealistic expectations.

Who did you buy the saw from? What part of the world are you in?

Thanks,

David.


Hi David,

Thanks for your input. I bought the saw at Woodworker's Depot in
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA.. I live in Fond du Lac, WI.

The other wing did line up with a perfectly flush seam, at least by
feel.

I'll give your method a try.

-Peter

You got out of there with only one tool? Still have a Powermatic 3520 on
the floor? Almost pulled plastic on that one last time I was down there,
but I had a plane to catch....

If a properly annealed casting, should be no problem. If one of those
quick-cooled large-grained Grizzly castings we hate so much, might crack.
You got name and number of advisor? If it cracks, it's replaced.

"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 04:56:46 GMT, "David F. Eisan"
wrote:

Hello Peter,

snip, wings ain't level

Cast iron wings are *extremely* malleable.

All wing bend up or down, I have never met a dead flat one.

I have put together *way* more table saws than I can count. They are all
like this. If you are expecting them to be perfectly flat and flush with
no
effort during assembly, you have unrealistic expectations.


Thanks for your input. I bought the saw at Woodworker's Depot in
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA.. I live in Fond du Lac, WI.

The other wing did line up with a perfectly flush seam, at least by
feel.

I'll give your method a try.

-Peter

Peter,
I had the same problem with a Powermatic 64A
contractors saw. You will be surprised at how very easily
you can bend the cast wing by 1/32" and more. I did it
by clamping a 2x4 across the width of the saw (side to side)
and putting a small block of wood under the 2x4 at the point
of the wing where I wanted to push down. The wing will flex with
no effort at all. I tightened up the bolts and I could not measure any
induced deflection in the main table. YMMV, in which case get a
replacement from general. I would try to bend it first.
Ken



Peter De Smidt wrote in message . ..

"Peter De Smidt" wrote in message
. ..
I just bought a General International 185 contractors saw. One of the
cast iron wings had an approximately 1/32" crown. In other words,
when the front and back are flush with the saw table, the middle is
about 1/32" higher. My dealer told me to get the middle and front
flush and then use a clamp to flush up the other side. He says that
cast iron "gives". Is this a reasonable idea, or should I be given a
replacement wing?

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:32:39 -0700, Bridger wrote:

it'll flex some. I've done it....


I agree that it might flex enough, but I have a problem with that.
According to my straightedge, my saw table is flat, but the extension
wing isn't. If I follow the advice of the dealer, I might be able to
get the edges to line up, but the amount of force needed to bend the
extension wing up, will also act to bend the table down. Since the
materials are the same, I expect that half of the movement will be
from the extension wing, and half of the movement will be from the
already flat table. This will result in the seams matching up but the
surface not being perfectly flat. If I'm right that the crown is
about 1/32", that the table would be off by about 1/64" where the seam
is. I know this isn't very much, but this is a new and expensive (at
least for me) saw. Is this type of flaw par for the course, or is it
something that I should make a bigger deal out of with the dealer?
I'm new to furniture making, and so I don't know what the common
expectations are.

-Peter De Smidt

If it's a new saw, take it back and have 'em make it right. The wing
obviously warped after it was ground flat or else it was improperly fixtured
on the grinder. Castings for quality machine tools are seasoned for many
years before being machined. I have taken two new saws back for having
non-flat tables/wings. One was a Craftsman! They sent the whole table with
wings attached out to be Blanchard ground. Man that thing was Flat.

dean s

I would like to thank everyone who gave me advice. I matched the seam
on the front and middle, tightened the corresponding bolts, and then
gently tapped up on the extension wing with a piece of 4x4. This
brought that part of the extension wing up even with the table. So
far, so good! I don't have a long precision straight edge yet. When
it comes, I should be able to find out how flat the whole surface
really is.

Thanks again,
Peter

In article ,
says...
According to my straightedge, my saw table is flat, but the extension
wing isn't. If I follow the advice of the dealer, I might be able to
get the edges to line up, but the amount of force needed to bend the
extension wing up, will also act to bend the table down. Since the
materials are the same, I expect that half of the movement will be
from the extension wing, and half of the movement will be from the
already flat table. This will result in the seams matching up but the
surface not being perfectly flat.

I once had a (Jet) jointer whose fence had a bow in it. The company's
advice was to prop up both ends (bow up) and put my weight on the middle
of the bow till I felt it give. It worked. The same technique should
work on your saw extension.

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Grizzly's instructions specifically tell you to snug the bolts, and
use a hammer to get all the seams right, then tighten the bolts a
little more, hammer a little more, etc.

Another trick I figured out: If the wings aren't coplanar with the
table (i.e. angled up or down), do this:

* Remove one wing, "fold" it over so that it is laying face down on
the table with the "seam" edges together.

* Line up the "seam" edges as best you can and clamp the wing down
tight.

* Use a file along the "seam" edges, keeping the file across both the
table edge and the wing edge, to make those edges coplanar. In my
case, I mostly needed to remove paint (yes, they painted the nicely
ground seam edges. Sigh).

* Replace the wing. Repeat for the other wing.

Even if the filing didn't give you a true 90 degree angle, it *will*
make the two angles you do get add up to 180 degrees - i.e, the wing
will now be coplanar with the table.

Note: this is the same trick as used on a jointer! Even if your
jointer fence isn't exactly 90 degrees, as long as the two edges are
jointed in the same direction (before flipping one piece over), the
errors will cancel out (if you do it wrong, the errors add together
and make it worse). Try and see - set your fence a little tilted,
joint to boards, and put them together.