I'm pretty new and after most of the first semester at the local
community, I'm finally ready to buy some of my own tools (starting
from nothing). Given the constraints of money and space, I'm going to
be working outside and need a portable substitute for a tablesaw to do
rip cuts on lumber and sheet products. I'm pretty new and get freaked
out by exposed spinning blades (including the Sawstop they use in
class), so a contractor's saw is not my favorite option for now.

DeWalt, Festool, and Eurekazone (which works with a third party
circular saw) all have similar-looking systems. Anyone have
experience with them? Would a heavy worktable and a couple of
sawhorses be adequate support for doing longer rip cuts?

Suggestions on substitute devices are also welcome. My main interest
at this point, given my current skills and budget, is in having tools
to do craft-type furniture--benches, tables, chairs, smaller cabinet
type work.

Sledge Hammer wrote:

I'm pretty new and after most of the first semester at the local
community, I'm finally ready to buy some of my own tools (starting
from nothing). Given the constraints of money and space, I'm going to
be working outside and need a portable substitute for a tablesaw to do
rip cuts on lumber and sheet products. I'm pretty new and get freaked
out by exposed spinning blades (including the Sawstop they use in
class), so a contractor's saw is not my favorite option for now.

DeWalt, Festool, and Eurekazone (which works with a third party
circular saw) all have similar-looking systems. Anyone have
experience with them? Would a heavy worktable and a couple of
sawhorses be adequate support for doing longer rip cuts?

Suggestions on substitute devices are also welcome. My main interest
at this point, given my current skills and budget, is in having tools
to do craft-type furniture--benches, tables, chairs, smaller cabinet
type work.

I'd suggest a decent circular saw with a good blade, a couple of clamps
and a home made saw guide as depicted in the below article:

http://wayneofthewoods.com/circular-...ing-guide.html

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

I think any track saw system or a jig like the one shown by Nova are
an OK starting point. Circular saws are a lot harder to get good cuts
so a good sharp and appropriate blade is a must. Plywood use a fairly
fine blade but if you can find something with some extrat gullets
(missing teeth) it works better to clear the chips. Hardwood probably
works better with a combo blade or true ripping blade.

For the table, look for some literature on sacrificial setups. You can
make some saw horses with an extra 2 x 4 on top to take the cutting or
some folks use a big piece of styrafoam. Search Plywood Cutting Table
on Google for lots of ideas. Solid stock will be a very different
animal. I would not look forward to ripping an 8" wide board down to
4" with a circular saw. I would much rather do it on a $100 Home Depot
table top table saw... personally.


On Nov 21, 9:03*am, Sledge Hammer wrote:
I'm pretty new and after most of the first semester at the local
community, I'm finally ready to buy some of my own tools (starting
from nothing). *Given the constraints of money and space, I'm going to
be working outside and need a portable substitute for a tablesaw to do
rip cuts on lumber and sheet products. *I'm pretty new and get freaked
out by exposed spinning blades (including the Sawstop they use in
class), so a contractor's saw is not my favorite option for now.

DeWalt, Festool, and Eurekazone (which works with a third party
circular saw) all have similar-looking systems. *Anyone have
experience with them? Would a heavy worktable and a couple of
sawhorses be adequate support for doing longer rip cuts?

Suggestions on substitute devices are also welcome. *My main interest
at this point, given my current skills and budget, is in having tools
to do craft-type furniture--benches, tables, chairs, smaller cabinet
type work.

Sledge Hammer wrote:
I'm pretty new and after most of the first semester at the local
community, I'm finally ready to buy some of my own tools (starting
from nothing). Given the constraints of money and space, I'm going
to
be working outside and need a portable substitute for a tablesaw to
do
rip cuts on lumber and sheet products. I'm pretty new and get
freaked
out by exposed spinning blades (including the Sawstop they use in
class), so a contractor's saw is not my favorite option for now.

DeWalt, Festool, and Eurekazone (which works with a third party
circular saw) all have similar-looking systems. Anyone have
experience with them? Would a heavy worktable and a couple of
sawhorses be adequate support for doing longer rip cuts?

Suggestions on substitute devices are also welcome. My main
interest
at this point, given my current skills and budget, is in having
tools
to do craft-type furniture--benches, tables, chairs, smaller cabinet
type work.

If you're doing cabinetry eventually you're going to need a table saw,
but even when you have one a track saw will be very useful for dealing
with sheet goods--cutting a sheet of 3/4" MDF or to approximate size
first is a lot easier than manhandling the whole monster onto your
table saw.

Rather than getting a purpose-made track saw or spending money for the
EZ-Smart, first you might want to try making a guide from a piece of
plywood
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...s/4283497.html.
Costs under 20 bucks (you don't need any kind of fancy plywood--CDX
sheathing works fine) and works a treat.



--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Sledge Hammer" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty new and after most of the first semester at the local
community, I'm finally ready to buy some of my own tools (starting
from nothing). Given the constraints of money and space, I'm going to
be working outside and need a portable substitute for a tablesaw to do
rip cuts on lumber and sheet products. I'm pretty new and get freaked
out by exposed spinning blades (including the Sawstop they use in
class), so a contractor's saw is not my favorite option for now.

DeWalt, Festool, and Eurekazone (which works with a third party
circular saw) all have similar-looking systems. Anyone have
experience with them? Would a heavy worktable and a couple of
sawhorses be adequate support for doing longer rip cuts?

Suggestions on substitute devices are also welcome. My main interest
at this point, given my current skills and budget, is in having tools
to do craft-type furniture--benches, tables, chairs, smaller cabinet
type work.
There isn't a woodworking tool around that hasn't caused serious injury to
someone.
I try to be sure that I review the setup before turning on any piece of
machinery.

However, a table saw is not my favorite tool for cutting long stock
lengthwise.
When I cut 4x8 plywood to width, I use a circular saw against a long guide.
When I cut long boards to width, I use adjustable supports to keep the board
level.

A good table saw will make most of what you want to do. A good table saw
may outlast you.
I also use a jig saw, routers, drills, a drill press, and assorted sanders.
One of these days, I will add a joiner and a planer.
Jim

I have the Festool, and I really like it. You can actually make your final
finish cuts with the saw and its track, just as accurately as you can
measure and mark the wood. It's worlds better than a regular circular saw
because the arbor doesn't have any runout to speak of, so the cuts are
smooth and clean.

The blade is completely enclosed until you push it down into the wood, and
it has a good depth stop, so you're not exposing any spinning blades when
you use it.

I use a couple of sawhorses with a sacrificial piece of OSB on top as a
rough bench. Then I just put my plywood or MDF right on the OSB and set the
saw's depth stop so that it extends no more than an eighth of an inch or so
into the OSB. Works like a charm.

Tom


"Sledge Hammer" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty new and after most of the first semester at the local
community, I'm finally ready to buy some of my own tools (starting
from nothing). Given the constraints of money and space, I'm going to
be working outside and need a portable substitute for a tablesaw to do
rip cuts on lumber and sheet products. I'm pretty new and get freaked
out by exposed spinning blades (including the Sawstop they use in
class), so a contractor's saw is not my favorite option for now.

DeWalt, Festool, and Eurekazone (which works with a third party
circular saw) all have similar-looking systems. Anyone have
experience with them? Would a heavy worktable and a couple of
sawhorses be adequate support for doing longer rip cuts?

Suggestions on substitute devices are also welcome. My main interest
at this point, given my current skills and budget, is in having tools
to do craft-type furniture--benches, tables, chairs, smaller cabinet
type work.

I have the Festool, and I really like it.
Tom


That looks very impressive, as does most of the Festool line.

The thing I can afford from Festool is their little plastic block
sander.... and it's overpriced, too. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Hi,

Something I used a lot when I was very limited in space and tools was
a hand jigsaw. Scroll saw? Not sure of the proper name.

Anyhow with a supply of fresh blades, it does a good job of making
first cuts, both rip and cross cut and in plywood. Sawhorses with
some auxiliary supports keep the work off the ground.

They ain't accurate. You won't get dead straight rips, or even
vertical cuts, but you will get your pieces cut out to managable
size. You can then use a small bench saw, or band saw, or even a good
hand saw to get your finished cuts. The size of pieces you need will
control what you use.

Personally, I think the circular saw is the second most hazardous tool
I put in my hand. The router is the first. They both scare me.

Old Guy

On Nov 21, 11:03*am, Sledge Hammer wrote:
I'm pretty new and after most of the first semester at the local
community, I'm finally ready to buy some of my own tools (starting
from nothing). *Given the constraints of money and space, I'm going to
be working outside and need a portable substitute for a tablesaw to do
rip cuts on lumber and sheet products. *I'm pretty new and get freaked
out by exposed spinning blades (including the Sawstop they use in
class), so a contractor's saw is not my favorite option for now.

DeWalt, Festool, and Eurekazone (which works with a third party
circular saw) all have similar-looking systems. *Anyone have
experience with them? Would a heavy worktable and a couple of
sawhorses be adequate support for doing longer rip cuts?

Suggestions on substitute devices are also welcome. *My main interest
at this point, given my current skills and budget, is in having tools
to do craft-type furniture--benches, tables, chairs, smaller cabinet
type work.

Personally, I think the circular saw is the second most hazardous tool
I put in my hand. The router is the first. They both scare me.

I think the most hazardous tool is a hand held electric plane.

I still remember the very first time I used one.

You know how when you are hand planing a narrow edge, you curl your
fingers round under the sole so that the tips rest aginst your work and
act as a guide.........


You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people?
Same thing goes for tools.

There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people?
Same thing goes for tools.
There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. * :-)

Not necessarily. How about people who are tired or distracted by
something or just in a little too much of a hurry. Not stupid- just
ordinary people like us. Don't say it can't happen to me. Add "yet"
after statements like that. Nobody plans to have an accident.

Richard

Richard wrote:
You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people?
Same thing goes for tools.
There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)
Not necessarily. How about people who are tired or distracted by
something or just in a little too much of a hurry. Not stupid- just
ordinary people like us. Don't say it can't happen to me. Add "yet"
after statements like that. Nobody plans to have an accident.

Richard

Stupid people work while tired or distracted.
Stupid people work take short cuts when in a hurry.

It has happened. Kickback from a table saw.
I was being stupid.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Richard wrote:
You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people?
Same thing goes for tools.
There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)

Not necessarily. How about people who are tired or distracted by
something or just in a little too much of a hurry. Not stupid- just
ordinary people like us. Don't say it can't happen to me. Add "yet"
after statements like that. Nobody plans to have an accident.

Yes and no...

I think part of it comes from training and development of concentration.

I totally understand what you mean on one level. Somebody untrained
and undisciplined does "one quick cut" under any combination of factors
and amputates something. Is it a sad coincidence? Or is it stupidity?

I've had the privilege of formal training in woodworking, high voltage
electrics, and flight. What they all have in common, is the goal of the
student understanding what frame of mind they should be in to safely
complete the activity and continuing to use the same level of care after
training is completed. The golden goal is for the student to
automatically recognize a bad human or mechanical factor, while there is
still time to stop, long after training is complete.

The key is when you are tired, distracted, or unsure of the correct
method to follow, yet you choose to continue into a situation. Some
might hold that out as stupidity. I might also hold out someone who
blindly uses a tool capable of quickly cutting tough materials, without
so much as reading the manual or instructions, as stupid.

In my day job, I've known people who were killed under those
circumstances, even though they had regular reminders and formal
training of why we follow safety procedures. They even had enough
experience to have personally had occasions where the properly followed
safety procedures uncovered a deadly condition in advance, so they were
unhurt at the time.

The "not stupid" comes in when a failure that could not be reasonably
expected, or found in advance with a reasonable inspection, causes
things to go awry.

The gray area comes in with the self-taught nature of woodworking. But
hey, that's where warning labels and user manual sidebars come from.

Sorry for the long post, but this is something I take a big interest in...

-MIKE- wrote in news:gg9lm8$odj$1
@nntp.motzarella.org:


You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people?
Same thing goes for tools.

There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)

There are dangerous tools out there. For one example, take a dremel tool
with cut off disk. If you get the disk just a little out of alignment, the
disk will break and be sent flying all over the place.

The easiest way to make it safer is to use a thicker disk, but they
sometimes break and disintegrate too.

Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news
Richard wrote:
You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people?
Same thing goes for tools.
There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)

Not necessarily. How about people who are tired or distracted by
something or just in a little too much of a hurry. Not stupid- just
ordinary people like us. Don't say it can't happen to me. Add "yet"
after statements like that. Nobody plans to have an accident.

Yes and no...

I think part of it comes from training and development of concentration.

I totally understand what you mean on one level. Somebody untrained and
undisciplined does "one quick cut" under any combination of factors and
amputates something. Is it a sad coincidence? Or is it stupidity?

I've had the privilege of formal training in woodworking, high voltage
electrics, and flight. What they all have in common, is the goal of the
student understanding what frame of mind they should be in to safely
complete the activity and continuing to use the same level of care after
training is completed. The golden goal is for the student to
automatically recognize a bad human or mechanical factor, while there is
still time to stop, long after training is complete.

The key is when you are tired, distracted, or unsure of the correct method
to follow, yet you choose to continue into a situation. Some might hold
that out as stupidity. I might also hold out someone who blindly uses a
tool capable of quickly cutting tough materials, without so much as
reading the manual or instructions, as stupid.

In my day job, I've known people who were killed under those
circumstances, even though they had regular reminders and formal training
of why we follow safety procedures. They even had enough experience to
have personally had occasions where the properly followed safety
procedures uncovered a deadly condition in advance, so they were unhurt at
the time.

The "not stupid" comes in when a failure that could not be reasonably
expected, or found in advance with a reasonable inspection, causes things
to go awry.

The gray area comes in with the self-taught nature of woodworking. But
hey, that's where warning labels and user manual sidebars come from.

Sorry for the long post, but this is something I take a big interest in...

I'm coming in way late in the thread but 2 stories to relate...

1) Getting ready for a festival where a couple friends were setting up a
table, I was making a table top much too quickly (a "last minute" type
deal). With something as simple as a utility knife... The plan was to
re-top an existing table with a layer of quarter inch of hardboard. Instead
of going through the motions to get a real saw out and making the cut, I
decided to hold a 1 by on it as a straight edge and cut it with the utility
knife. Well, duh! The knife slipped and I have a scar on my left index
finger from an eighth inch below the nail to the second knuckle.

2) Winter. Unheated shop, about 30F. 1 pass in the router table to make.
(side note, cheap Skil (I think) router, early in my days of power tools, if
I had been using hand tools, this wouldn't have happened) I set the bit
height and did a test pass. Not quite high enough. I loosened the lock and
started tapping the tool to get it up just a hair... using my left hand to
feel the height in relation to the fence and my right hand to tap. I don't
even need to tell the rest, do I? The tapping hand hit the switch and the
pinky and ring finger of my left hand were in the blade. Another pair of
scars I'll wear forever. Luckily, they were just resting loosely so they
basically flopped out of the way. I got the machine off and looked at the
red splatter and then my hand (another side note, I have played guitar since
I was 13). It was the closest I have ever come to fainting. I had to go in
the house, remove my insulated overalls and lay down on the floor with my
feet elevated on a chair. Oh, to top it all off, I was completely alone...
no one to call for help I had really needed it. They healed fine but it
took about 5 weeks before I could use them anywhere near normally and about
10 weeks before I could play my guitar with all the fingers on my left hand.

Hmmmm.... why *am* I relating this? Hopefully someone out there will learn
from my mistakes, I guess. And saying "crap happens" I guess. Were these
things stupid? I dunno... maybe. I'd like to chalk them up to
inexperience. What would have been really stupid would be if I hadn't
learned from them. Both of these were done as a result of trying to rush
things and not following basic safety procedures. Hopefully, I'm better at
assessing things like that.

Ed

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Personally, I think the circular saw is the second most
hazardous tool
I put in my hand. The router is the first. They both scare me.

I think the most hazardous tool is a hand held electric plane.

I still remember the very first time I used one.

You know how when you are hand planing a narrow edge, you curl
your
fingers round under the sole so that the tips rest aginst your
work and
act as a guide.........


You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid
people?
Same thing goes for tools.

There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)

Ideed: 25 years ago, - Heavy angle grinder with 9" wheel, in a
hurry, taking shortcuts. (Shortcuts that I knew presented danger.)
Grinder kicked back, hitting me in the face with the wheel.
Result: Near death from blood loss, emergency surgery and over 100
sutures to repair face.

.........stupid!

-MIKE- wrote:
Richard wrote:
You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid
people? Same thing goes for tools.
There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)
Not necessarily. How about people who are tired or distracted by
something or just in a little too much of a hurry. Not stupid-
just
ordinary people like us. Don't say it can't happen to me. Add
"yet"
after statements like that. Nobody plans to have an accident.

Richard

Stupid people work while tired or distracted.

Fatigue impairs judgment. Stupidity has nothing to do with it.

Stupid people work take short cuts when in a hurry.

It has happened. Kickback from a table saw.
I was being stupid.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Puckdropper wrote:
There are dangerous tools out there.


You're correct. All of them.


For one example, take a dremel tool
with cut off disk. If you get the disk just a little out of alignment, the
disk will break and be sent flying all over the place.


That can be said, given different specifics, with any tool.


The easiest way to make it safer is to use a thicker disk, but they
sometimes break and disintegrate too.


Here's the easiest way to make a hammer safer.
http://www.pad-up.com/picture.asp?PictureID=87317


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Ed Edelenbos wrote:
1) With something as simple as a utility knife...

2) 1 pass in the router table to make.
...if I had been using hand tools, this wouldn't have happened)

Isn't a utility knife a hand tool? :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Ed Edelenbos wrote:
1) With something as simple as a utility knife... 2) 1 pass in the
router table to make. ...if I had been using hand tools, this wouldn't
have happened)

Isn't a utility knife a hand tool? :-p


--

-MIKE-


Hmmm... maybe I *haven't* learned to think before I do. (grin)

Ed

DiggerOp wrote:
"-MIKE-"
There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)

Ideed: 25 years ago, - Heavy angle grinder with 9" wheel, in a
hurry, taking shortcuts. (Shortcuts that I knew presented danger.)
Grinder kicked back, hitting me in the face with the wheel.
Result: Near death from blood loss, emergency surgery and over 100
sutures to repair face.

........stupid!


Glad you're ok.

Perhaps had I wrote "foolish" in place of "stupid," there would be no
arguments.

Nonetheless, the analogy holds water.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Stupid people work while tired or distracted.

Fatigue impairs judgment. Stupidity has nothing to do with it.


Semantics. You guys crack me up.

Perhaps had I wrote "foolish" in place of "stupid," there would be no
arguments.

Foolish people work with power tools while fatigued.

If in fact fatigue impairs judgment.
I'm guessing that's why the military or firefighters have drills after
drills after drills after drills with certain procedures. It becomes
such a habit, so ingrained in them, that fatigue doesn't come into play.

Same thing with safety procedures. If you're anal about it from the
beginning, and continue with them, to the point that other guys make fun
of you, then you just do those procedures without a second thought, even
when those other guys are snickering and pointing at you with their
stubby, two-knuckled fingers.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
DiggerOp wrote:
"-MIKE-"
There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)

Ideed: 25 years ago, - Heavy angle grinder with 9" wheel, in a
hurry, taking shortcuts. (Shortcuts that I knew presented
danger.) Grinder kicked back, hitting me in the face with the
wheel.
Result: Near death from blood loss, emergency surgery and over
100 sutures to repair face.

........stupid!


Glad you're ok.

Thanks. : )

Perhaps had I wrote "foolish" in place of "stupid," there would be
no arguments.

Nonetheless, the analogy holds water.


In my case, stupid is the the appropriate word ... without doubt
: )

1/ It was middle of summer and I removed the protective face shield
I was wearing because I had to keep wiping the sweat from the
inside.

2/ The grinder wouldn't fit inside the narrow opening of the machine
housing I was working on, so I removed the side handle.

3/ My hands were also sweaty which made it difficult to hold the
grinder securely.

4/ I couldn't reach the last weld I had to grind off with the
grinding wheel guard in place, ........ so I removed it.

5/ I had done something similar before and lost control of the
grinder, seeing it kick back and fly past me, landing 20 feet away.

6/ I had other options, -- get a smaller more manageable grinder, or
use oxy/actylene.

To my way of thinking, foolish would have been using that tool which
was too big and awkward in the first place, when there were safer
alternatives. : )

However, doing something that I already new was dangerous and then
proceeding to remove all the safeguards in place to make it even
more dangerous, ....

That definitely qualifies as stupid. : )

-MIKE- wrote:
Stupid people work while tired or distracted.

Fatigue impairs judgment. Stupidity has nothing to do with it.


Semantics. You guys crack me up.

Actually not. I've done things when I was tired that I knew better
than to do when I was not. One of the things the Iron Butt
Association makes a big deal about is how to recognize that you are
fatigued to the point of having impaired judgment. Most people don't
know the signs and don't know to watch for them, which is ignorance,
not stupidity.

Perhaps had I wrote "foolish" in place of "stupid," there would be
no
arguments.

Foolish people work with power tools while fatigued.

Fatigued people don't know that they're fatigued. It sneaks up on
you.

If in fact fatigue impairs judgment.

It does.

http://www.dot.gov.nt.ca/_live/pages...mpairment.aspx
http://www.ironbutt.com/tech/aow.cfm?AOWID=12
http://www.ibc.ca/en/Car_Insurance/Driver_Fatigue/
http://www.apsf.org/resource_center/.../01fatigue.htm

A couple of fatigue in the workplace handbooks from the Australian
government (big downloads from a slow site--be patient)
http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/wps/w...e_handbook.pdf
http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/wps/w...t_forestry.pdf

Personal experience--continuing a motorcycle trip onto a bad and very
isolated road late in the day when a couple of events earlier in the
day should have told me that my judgment was already impaired).

Don't dismiss it as stupidity or foolishness, learn the signs and
practice watching for them.

I'm guessing that's why the military or firefighters have drills
after
drills after drills after drills with certain procedures. It becomes
such a habit, so ingrained in them, that fatigue doesn't come into
play.

That's part of it, but the main part is that under stress people tend
to do whatever they're practiced doing.

Same thing with safety procedures. If you're anal about it from the
beginning, and continue with them, to the point that other guys make
fun of you, then you just do those procedures without a second
thought, even when those other guys are snickering and pointing at
you with their stubby, two-knuckled fingers.

Very true.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

-MIKE- wrote:
....

If in fact fatigue impairs judgment.
I'm guessing that's why the military or firefighters have drills after
drills after drills after drills with certain procedures. It becomes
such a habit, so ingrained in them, that fatigue doesn't come into play.
....

There is voluminous research that fatigue _does_ impair judgment,
reaction time, etc., etc., etc., ...

Even trained people make mistakes and more so when tired.

--

You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people?
Same thing goes for tools.

There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. * :-)


Well....there are these things. You have to be extra smart to use
them.

-mkaras

On Nov 21, 3:15*pm, "Jim" wrote:
There isn't a woodworking tool around that hasn't caused serious injury to
someone.

I gather! I'm managed to send myself to the ER without shop tools--
I'm an expert in making tournequets from my experiences with a box
cutter and a stick blender.

A good table saw will make most of what you want to do. *A good table saw
may outlast you.

Yeah, I get that. Someday....

On Nov 21, 1:01*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Rather than getting a purpose-made track saw or spending money for the
EZ-Smart, first you might want to try making a guide from a piece of
plywoodhttp://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/tools/4283497.html.
Costs under 20 bucks (you don't need any kind of fancy plywood--CDX
sheathing works fine) and works a treat.

This is part of a dilemma for a beginner. This solution for ripping
straight edgers presupposes you already have a way of ripping straight
edges :-)

On Nov 21, 12:42*pm, Nova wrote:
I'd suggest a decent circular saw with a good blade, a couple of clamps
and a home made saw guide as depicted in the below article:

http://wayneofthewoods.com/circular-...ing-guide.html

This is part of a dilemma for a beginner. This solution for ripping
straight edgers presupposes you already have a way of ripping straight
edges :-)

On Nov 21, 3:15*pm, "Jim" wrote:
There isn't a woodworking tool around that hasn't caused serious injury to
someone.

I gather! *I'm managed to send myself to the ER without shop tools--
I'm an expert in making tournequets from my experiences with a box
cutter and a stick blender.

Sledge Hammer wrote:
On Nov 21, 12:42 pm, Nova wrote:

I'd suggest a decent circular saw with a good blade, a couple of clamps
and a home made saw guide as depicted in the below article:

http://wayneofthewoods.com/circular-...ing-guide.html


This is part of a dilemma for a beginner. This solution for ripping
straight edgers presupposes you already have a way of ripping straight
edges :-)

You only need one straight edge to begin with and the factory edge of a
piece of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood is usually pretty good.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Nov 21, 6:48*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
I have the Festool, and I really like it.
Tom

That looks very impressive, as does most of the Festool line.

The thing I can afford from Festool is their little plastic block
sander.... and it's overpriced, too. * :-)

I own a few Festool sanders and the 1/4 sheet palm sander isn't one of
them. Overpriced indeed.
Now this one is a great sander for a good price:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002EVDOG
I absolutely love that little thing and with the dust collector
adaptor, almost perfectly dustfree with even a basic shopvac.
Just because it is Festool, doesn't make it an automatic 'best deal'.
That said, Festool doesn't make any bad tools. They're all excellent,
just in some categories, overpriced.
I would, for instance, never consider their jigsaws or routers either
and for the same reason. Great tools, stupid money. I will continue
recommending their ROSanders, at almost any price.
Oh.... and maybe that wee mitresaw thingy they make...sweeeeet,
Virtually dust free, quiet, small footprint...

Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news:gg9lm8$odj$1
@nntp.motzarella.org:

You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people?
Same thing goes for tools.

There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)

There are dangerous tools out there. For one example, take a dremel tool
with cut off disk. If you get the disk just a little out of alignment, the
disk will break and be sent flying all over the place.

The easiest way to make it safer is to use a thicker disk, but they
sometimes break and disintegrate too.

Puckdropper

When I was in high school a friend of mine and I used to have our own
little automotive painting business. Of course, all the workspace and
tools were borrowed from our fathers, and I'll never forget one HEAVY
and nasty old metal bodied hand-held grinder owned by my friend's
father. We had a big wire brush installed on that thing for rust
removal (safety guard? What's that?), and it was turned on and off with
a TOGGLE switch. One day I was preparing to use it, so I hauled it out
and plopped it down in the middle of the driveway, then proceeded to
plug it in. Of course, then damn toggle switch was in the ON position,
and I can tell you there's nothing quite so frightening as a nasty
screaming wire brush monster hopping around the driveway trying to take
a bite out of your shin bones! I don't know how I managed to escape
injury or to regain control of the power cord and yank the connector
apart, but I can tell you I had a racing heart and a fair amount of ****
running down my legs!

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

wrote:
On Nov 21, 1:01 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Rather than getting a purpose-made track saw or spending money for the
EZ-Smart, first you might want to try making a guide from a piece of
plywoodhttp://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/tools/4283497.html.
Costs under 20 bucks (you don't need any kind of fancy plywood--CDX
sheathing works fine) and works a treat.

This is part of a dilemma for a beginner. This solution for ripping
straight edgers presupposes you already have a way of ripping straight
edges :-)

Not really, which is what Mr. J. Clarke is trying to point out.

The factory edge of an undamaged sheet of plywood is straight enough to
make a guide. The base of the saw will bridge minor dents and
imperfections. The guide rail really doesn't need to perfectly smooth.

B A R R Y wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 21, 1:01 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Rather than getting a purpose-made track saw or spending money for
the EZ-Smart, first you might want to try making a guide from a
piece of
plywoodhttp://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/tools/4283497.html.
Costs under 20 bucks (you don't need any kind of fancy
plywood--CDX
sheathing works fine) and works a treat.

This is part of a dilemma for a beginner. This solution for
ripping
straight edgers presupposes you already have a way of ripping
straight edges :-)

Not really, which is what Mr. J. Clarke is trying to point out.

The factory edge of an undamaged sheet of plywood is straight enough
to make a guide. The base of the saw will bridge minor dents and
imperfections. The guide rail really doesn't need to perfectly
smooth.

Next time I make one maybe I should shoot video for the people for
whom drawing them a picture is not enough.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Nov 23, 10:40*am, Nova wrote:
Sledge Hammer wrote:
On Nov 21, 12:42 pm, Nova wrote:

I'd suggest a decent circular saw with a good blade, a couple of clamps
and a home made saw guide as depicted in the below article:

http://wayneofthewoods.com/circular-...ing-guide.html

This is part of a dilemma for a beginner. *This solution for ripping
straight edgers presupposes you already have a way of ripping straight
edges :-)

You only need one straight edge to begin with and the factory edge of a
piece of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood is usually pretty good.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA


I use a few of those saw-guides day-to-day at my shop. They're easy to
make and simple to use. One thing that the 'real' ones do, is to keep
the blade from wandering off the fence.
I have yet to make the investment. I get by just fine with a basic saw-
guide. (They also protect the material from picking up scratches from
the saw's shoe.)

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:25:01 -0500, B A R R Y
wrote:

wrote:
On Nov 21, 1:01 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Rather than getting a purpose-made track saw or spending money for the
EZ-Smart, first you might want to try making a guide from a piece of
plywoodhttp://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/tools/4283497.html.
Costs under 20 bucks (you don't need any kind of fancy plywood--CDX
sheathing works fine) and works a treat.

This is part of a dilemma for a beginner. This solution for ripping
straight edgers presupposes you already have a way of ripping straight
edges :-)

Not really, which is what Mr. J. Clarke is trying to point out.

The factory edge of an undamaged sheet of plywood is straight enough to
make a guide. The base of the saw will bridge minor dents and
imperfections. The guide rail really doesn't need to perfectly smooth.

....this is true and works well. I use an aluminum straightedge (a
rule carried by any good tool source works good here) attached to a
slice of 3/8" baltic birch, for my guide, which travels with me to
jobs...it's set up for my 18v Makita 6" and gets a lot of work. They
*do* tend to get worn, so leave enough room to move your straightedge
over slightly so you can cut another parallel edge on occasion (this
extra also serves as a clamping surface away from the saw motor). Once
you've established that you can achieve a straight cut, the ultimate
flaw is in your marking and clamping...the devil is in the variables
and these two are the keys to a good, parallel, cut. Clamping should
be easily achieved by a quick check for tightness before you hack
away...marking is another matter. I've gotten *close* to error-free
here by using my utility knife to score tiny kerfs to lay the
straightedge to...all that said, I'm at my table saw whenever
possible!

cg

Nova wrote:

I'd suggest a decent circular saw with a good blade, a couple of clamps
and a home made saw guide as depicted in the below article:

http://wayneofthewoods.com/circular-...ing-guide.html



I still use the exact same guide to break down full sheets before trying
to rip them. A great marital peace maker, as I don't need the
machine-petrified wife to help cut full sheets.

For extra credit, make the base wide enough to guide a router with 1/2"
bit on the other side. Side one guides the saw, side two provides a
perfect edge with two good sides.

Honestly, after you get only slightly more experienced, you won't want
to be struggling with some compromised Half-Answer for a table saw.
There are dozens for sale on Craig List for $100 or less. Look for cast
irn table and side extensions. I just got one for my retired father for
$50 in perfect condition, hardly used with accessories. Found him a
radial arm last ear for $50. And before somebody starts steering you
into an expensive Delta or other multi-thousand $$ overkill, I'll tell
you that I am a professional woodworker as my sole source of income for
nearly 30 yrs and have a Craftsman in my own home shop. You can make
these (see below) wheels for your saw fast and cheap so it will be
portable. Use at least 3" wheels. The wheel kit they sell has tiny
little things that don't roll or steer easily, especially if there is
any debris on the floor.

http://porchmonkey.250free.com/SawBase1.jpg
http://porchmonkey.250free.com/SawBase2.jpg

J. Clarke wrote:

Personal experience--continuing a motorcycle trip onto a bad and very
isolated road late in the day when a couple of events earlier in the
day should have told me that my judgment was already impaired).

Don't dismiss it as stupidity or foolishness, learn the signs and
practice watching for them.

Exactly.

A theme repeated over and over, in pilot training, motorcycle advanced
training, CDL training, heavy tools, high voltage, hazmat, heavy
industrial... and every other safety related class I've ever seen.

One has to become mindful of their own fatigue.

The song remains the same, regardless of what specific task it's applied
to...

DiggerOp wrote:


Ideed: 25 years ago, - Heavy angle grinder with 9" wheel, in a
hurry, taking shortcuts. (Shortcuts that I knew presented danger.)
Grinder kicked back, hitting me in the face with the wheel.
Result: Near death from blood loss, emergency surgery and over 100
sutures to repair face.

........stupid!

What a coincidence -- the same thing happened to me about 25 years
ago. I was using an angle-iron grinder to cut through some angle-
iron and it kicked back and went through my chin (but fortunantly
stopped short of the bone). I've been a little more careful with
tools every since (esp grinders).

Lance