I have a question for everyone about Woodhaven's new "stock sizer" jig
for their router tables. For those that haven't seen it, it appears
to consist of two components. The first is a straight edge that sits
the length of the router table where the miter guage is and acts as a
fence. The wood being sized rides on the straightedge between it and
the router bit. The second set of components are modified
featherboards (called hold-outs) that sit against the normal router
table fence and pushes the wood against the straightedge to keep the
workpiece from pulling into the bit. The purpose of this setup is to
make stock perfectly parallel. It also seems to be useful for
jointing edges, perhaps for stock that is already cut/jointed but
perhaps not perfect.

My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?

Also, my interpretation of how this works is based solely upon the
photographs in their catalog and website. If anyone knows more or has
used this I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. Here is the link
to the product on their site:

http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

That whole setup looks dangerous to me.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"Sean" wrote in message
om...
I have a question for everyone about Woodhaven's new "stock sizer" jig
for their router tables. For those that haven't seen it, it appears
to consist of two components. The first is a straight edge that sits
the length of the router table where the miter guage is and acts as a
fence. The wood being sized rides on the straightedge between it and
the router bit. The second set of components are modified
featherboards (called hold-outs) that sit against the normal router
table fence and pushes the wood against the straightedge to keep the
workpiece from pulling into the bit. The purpose of this setup is to
make stock perfectly parallel. It also seems to be useful for
jointing edges, perhaps for stock that is already cut/jointed but
perhaps not perfect.

My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?

Also, my interpretation of how this works is based solely upon the
photographs in their catalog and website. If anyone knows more or has
used this I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. Here is the link
to the product on their site:

http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

Well, between the fence and bit, the bit is rotating in such a way as to grab
the material and push it along/into the fence. Yes, it's ill-advised and
dangerous, as it'll either send the workpiece flying, or wedge it twixt the
fence and bit, possibly damaging fence/bit or both. The set-up you're looking
at won't cause that to happen, 'cause you're working on the opposing side of
the bit. It could be safer with small pieces and the proper push block. I think
you _could_ end up taking too much material into the bit in some circumstances,
say a badly crooked hunk 'o material. If you've got one edge straight, and the
workpiece is big enough, why not use the tablesaw for the other? Tom

Subject: Woodhaven's stock sizer
From: (Sean)
Date: 01/16/2004 2:49 PM US Mountain Standard Time
Message-id:

I have a question for everyone about Woodhaven's new "stock sizer" jig
for their router tables. For those that haven't seen it, it appears
to consist of two components. The first is a straight edge that sits
the length of the router table where the miter guage is and acts as a
fence. The wood being sized rides on the straightedge between it and
the router bit. The second set of components are modified
featherboards (called hold-outs) that sit against the normal router
table fence and pushes the wood against the straightedge to keep the
workpiece from pulling into the bit. The purpose of this setup is to
make stock perfectly parallel. It also seems to be useful for
jointing edges, perhaps for stock that is already cut/jointed but
perhaps not perfect.

My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?

Also, my interpretation of how this works is based solely upon the
photographs in their catalog and website. If anyone knows more or has
used this I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. Here is the link
to the product on their site:

http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

Someday, it'll all be over....

It will work OK; but why buy it if you have a tablesaw or RAS. The fence
used for reference is not the router fence, but the new fence on the
outboard side (that you still have to supply). You will pushing the stock
into the bit rotation, so it is safe. Do not try to push stock between the
bit and the router table fence; that is where you have safety issues.

--
Alan Bierbaum

Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html


"Sean" wrote in message
om...
My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?


http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

How is the straightedge that they are using different than passing it
between a true fence and a bit? (assuming that you push from the other
side as to approach the bit from the proper side) Again the advice
that I got years ago (on this group) was that I shouldn't think that I
was strong enough to hold the piece against the fence in anyway.

As for why I would want this kind of setup... well, my tablesaw is
quite old and has some runout. Even with good blades I don't get a
quality joining edge. Setting up a straightedge with the router works
but is tedious and is very difficult to get a parallel piece and
reproduce it on many boards. I don't have room for jointer.(tried and
returned many benchtop ones) If you are quite good you can get close.
It just seemed like a nice solution to my problems if it works.

Thanks for the reply.

-Sean



DY (Tom) wrote in message ...
Well, between the fence and bit, the bit is rotating in such a way as to grab
the material and push it along/into the fence. Yes, it's ill-advised and
dangerous, as it'll either send the workpiece flying, or wedge it twixt the
fence and bit, possibly damaging fence/bit or both. The set-up you're looking
at won't cause that to happen, 'cause you're working on the opposing side of
the bit. It could be safer with small pieces and the proper push block. I think
you _could_ end up taking too much material into the bit in some circumstances,
say a badly crooked hunk 'o material. If you've got one edge straight, and the
workpiece is big enough, why not use the tablesaw for the other? Tom

Subject: Woodhaven's stock sizer
From: (Sean)
Date: 01/16/2004 2:49 PM US Mountain Standard Time
Message-id:

I have a question for everyone about Woodhaven's new "stock sizer" jig
for their router tables. For those that haven't seen it, it appears
to consist of two components. The first is a straight edge that sits
the length of the router table where the miter guage is and acts as a
fence. The wood being sized rides on the straightedge between it and
the router bit. The second set of components are modified
featherboards (called hold-outs) that sit against the normal router
table fence and pushes the wood against the straightedge to keep the
workpiece from pulling into the bit. The purpose of this setup is to
make stock perfectly parallel. It also seems to be useful for
jointing edges, perhaps for stock that is already cut/jointed but
perhaps not perfect.

My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?

Also, my interpretation of how this works is based solely upon the
photographs in their catalog and website. If anyone knows more or has
used this I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. Here is the link
to the product on their site:

http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

Someday, it'll all be over....

I'll ask you the same question that I have for Tom. If I push the
stock between the fence and the bit from the other direction it should
be the same as their setup in terms of proper feed direction. I would
need to have something to hold the stock tight to the fence. Is this
sufficient to make this safe?

Thanks for the reply.

-Sean



"Alan Bierbaum" wrote in message ...
It will work OK; but why buy it if you have a tablesaw or RAS. The fence
used for reference is not the router fence, but the new fence on the
outboard side (that you still have to supply). You will pushing the stock
into the bit rotation, so it is safe. Do not try to push stock between the
bit and the router table fence; that is where you have safety issues.

--
Alan Bierbaum

Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html


"Sean" wrote in message
om...
My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?


http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

Looking at the bit from above the router table; the bit rotates counter
clockwise. Using an outboard fence like the one that you are looking at
will feed the stock (right to left) into the outer edge of the bit and into
the bit rotation. Feeding right to left on the inboard fence will feed with
the rotation and cause problems with the climb cut. I suppose that if your
inboard fence will go back far enough (not normally) that you could feed
left to right with the wood between the fence and bit (use feather boards to
help hold it though). This accessory fence is made to work with commercial
tables where the inboard fence will not move back far enough to feed stock
between the fence and bit.

--
Alan Bierbaum

Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html


"Sean" wrote in message
m...
I'll ask you the same question that I have for Tom. If I push the
stock between the fence and the bit from the other direction it should
be the same as their setup in terms of proper feed direction. I would
need to have something to hold the stock tight to the fence. Is this
sufficient to make this safe?

Thanks for the reply.

-Sean



"Alan Bierbaum" wrote in message
...
It will work OK; but why buy it if you have a tablesaw or RAS. The
fence
used for reference is not the router fence, but the new fence on the
outboard side (that you still have to supply). You will pushing the
stock
into the bit rotation, so it is safe. Do not try to push stock between
the
bit and the router table fence; that is where you have safety issues.

--
Alan Bierbaum

Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html


"Sean" wrote in message
om...
My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?


http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

Once again Brad has supposedly "invented" something new that isn't new at
all. I've used a shop-made jig for this technique for years on shapers,
router tables and more recently oscillating spindle sanders. It works fine
and since the bit is turning the correct way as to not jerk the stock out
your hand its a relatively safe operation BUT....................Not
necessary at all if you just joint an edge, cut to width then joint again.
If your saw is ripping accurately you'll get good results. Where I DO use
this and a similar technique is in making two piece arched moldings and
such. Where you have a narrow molding laying on top of a wider one? I set a
curved shaped block of wood the desired distance from my OSS drum. I can
then run a curved piece of stock between the drum and the block and get it
parallel along the length. Same thing with the shaper. If you look at many
of the wonderful "jigs and fixtures" being sold today you will soon come to
realize that most can be shop-made just as good for a fraction of what they
cost. And if you're like me you'll also discover that most have already been
done before in some fashion by somebody.

Jim


"Alan Bierbaum" wrote in message
...
It will work OK; but why buy it if you have a tablesaw or RAS. The fence
used for reference is not the router fence, but the new fence on the
outboard side (that you still have to supply). You will pushing the stock
into the bit rotation, so it is safe. Do not try to push stock between
the
bit and the router table fence; that is where you have safety issues.

--
Alan Bierbaum

Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html


"Sean" wrote in message
om...
My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?


http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

Sean wrote:I'll ask you the same question that I have for Tom. If I push the
stock between the fence and the bit from the other direction it should
be the same as their setup in terms of proper feed direction. I would
need to have something to hold the stock tight to the fence. Is this
sufficient to make this safe?

With the right push block(s), and reasonably parellel edges, yes. Tom
Someday, it'll all be over....

Sorry if this is a duplicate posting... Google is having issues:

Basically I am backing off the fence as you describe and passing it in
from right to left in your scenario as to have the proper feed
direction. As I described this years ago I was still warned against
this. The few times that I had done it, I would make sure that the
stock was already parallel from the TS but just needed a hair trimmed
off to clean up the edge. Thanks for the replies.

-Sean




"Alan Bierbaum" wrote in message ...
Looking at the bit from above the router table; the bit rotates counter
clockwise. Using an outboard fence like the one that you are looking at
will feed the stock (right to left) into the outer edge of the bit and into
the bit rotation. Feeding right to left on the inboard fence will feed with
the rotation and cause problems with the climb cut. I suppose that if your
inboard fence will go back far enough (not normally) that you could feed
left to right with the wood between the fence and bit (use feather boards to
help hold it though). This accessory fence is made to work with commercial
tables where the inboard fence will not move back far enough to feed stock
between the fence and bit.

--
Alan Bierbaum

Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html


"Sean" wrote in message
m...
I'll ask you the same question that I have for Tom. If I push the
stock between the fence and the bit from the other direction it should
be the same as their setup in terms of proper feed direction. I would
need to have something to hold the stock tight to the fence. Is this
sufficient to make this safe?

Thanks for the reply.

-Sean



"Alan Bierbaum" wrote in message
...
It will work OK; but why buy it if you have a tablesaw or RAS. The
fence
used for reference is not the router fence, but the new fence on the
outboard side (that you still have to supply). You will pushing the
stock
into the bit rotation, so it is safe. Do not try to push stock between
the
bit and the router table fence; that is where you have safety issues.

--
Alan Bierbaum

Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html


"Sean" wrote in message
om...
My question is mostly one of safety. I considered jointing small
stock this way and was advised to never to push wood between the bit
and a fence. Anyone want to confirm this advice and if so, would the
featherboards help to completely eliminate the danger of doing so?


http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

If the link doesn't work just search on their site for "stock sizer".

Thanks

-Sean

PS
Also a small disclaimer that I own and love many of Woodhaven's
products... I am just worried about how this works.

In article ,
Sean wrote:
... Woodhaven's new "stock sizer" jig
...
http://www.woodhaven.com/singleprodu.../?fromsearch=1

A question about terminology - on this web page it says
"Parallel edges are commonly cut in three flawed steps: 1: Join an
edge."

This first step is commonly done done using a "jointer". What is the
correct term for the process of using a jointer?

I'd say "joint" or "jointing" - i.e. I'd say, "1. Joint and edge."
Then I'd refer to the edge on which the work was done as a "jointed
edge" (vs. "joined edge" on the web page.)

Are both usages correct - or is one of them preferred?
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu

Their terminology is wrong. It's "joint". And what do they mean by "flawed"?
They mean you NEED this tool! Tom Henry E
Schaffer wrote:

A question about terminology - on this web page it says
"Parallel edges are commonly cut in three flawed steps: 1: Join an
edge."

What is the
correct term for the process of using a jointer?


Someday, it'll all be over....

In article ,
Tom wrote:
Their terminology is wrong. It's "joint". And what do they mean by "flawed"?
They mean you NEED this tool! Tom

Of course they are selling this tool. That's kinda expected in their
sales literature.

I was interested in the terminology as an item per se.

Henry E Schaffer wrote:
A question about terminology - on this web page it says
"Parallel edges are commonly cut in three flawed steps: 1: Join an
edge."

What is the
correct term for the process of using a jointer?

Thanks for your comment - I agree with you. Are there any
disagreements? (I'll keep a tally and send it to Woodhaven.
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu