I saw a guy going over some hot-rolled steel bar with a blow torch
recently. When I asked what he was doing he said he was evaporating
the moisture from it. Sure enough - I watched it myself. The process
is that he'll fabricate the chair, blow torch the whole thing, then
rub beeswax all over it. Seems pretty labor intensive. I'm wondering
if we couldn't just put the whole dozen chairs in our wood kiln for a
few days and achieve the same effect. Any thoughts.

JP
*************************************************
Also posted to rec.crafts.metalworking

Jay Pique wrote:
I saw a guy going over some hot-rolled steel bar with a blow torch
recently. When I asked what he was doing he said he was evaporating
the moisture from it. Sure enough - I watched it myself. The process
is that he'll fabricate the chair, blow torch the whole thing, then
rub beeswax all over it. Seems pretty labor intensive. I'm wondering
if we couldn't just put the whole dozen chairs in our wood kiln for a
few days and achieve the same effect. Any thoughts.

Don't see why not if he's not counting on the torch flame doing
something--certainly the kiln heat would be sufficient for surface moisture.

--

dpb wrote:
Jay Pique wrote:
I saw a guy going over some hot-rolled steel bar with a blow torch
recently. When I asked what he was doing he said he was evaporating
the moisture from it. Sure enough - I watched it myself. The process
is that he'll fabricate the chair, blow torch the whole thing, then
rub beeswax all over it. Seems pretty labor intensive. I'm wondering
if we couldn't just put the whole dozen chairs in our wood kiln for a
few days and achieve the same effect. Any thoughts.

Don't see why not if he's not counting on the torch flame doing
something--certainly the kiln heat would be sufficient for surface
moisture.

--
Could he be burning the milling oil from the steel before he paints it?
That would be the quickest way I could think of to get rid of it
completely.

I don't think the blow torch would be hot enough to remove the stress
from the metal in the recent fabricated piece.

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:52:48 -0700 (PDT), Jay Pique
wrote:

I'm wondering
if we couldn't just put the whole dozen chairs in our wood kiln for a
few days and achieve the same effect. Any thoughts.

My thoughts are that if it's moisture you're trying to get rid of,
just set 'em out in the open sun for a couple of hours. Refinished
some lawn furniture recently. Used a pressure washer to knock off
loose paint. Left them out in the sun for a couple of hours to dry,
set them in the shade for a couple of hours to cool off, sprayed them.
No problems.

But, I don't think it was moisture the guy with the blowtorch was
after. Like another poster surmised, it was probably mill oil he was
burning off.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Sep 19, 9:23*pm, Tom Veatch wrote:


But, I don't think it was moisture the guy with the blowtorch was
after. Like another poster surmised, it was probably mill oil he was
burning off.

Now that's interesting. The whole story is this. One of our guys and
a metalworker built a table for a client. It's made from pieces of
hot-rolled steel that had further been cold bent into curves. They
welded together the parts, sanded it and then applied a coat of
beeswax. And it rusted. So now the metalworker thinks that if he
heats the steel really well it will evaporate trapped moisture and
then they'll seal it out with beeswax. (I know, I know....) In any
event, since it sounds like it's not moisture they're burning off
anyhow, the whole question of whether a kiln would work is pretty much
moot. (Obviously wouldn't be hot enough to burn off oil, either.)

Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

JP

On Sep 19, 10:08*pm, Jay Pique wrote:
On Sep 19, 9:23*pm, Tom Veatch wrote:



But, I don't think it was moisture the guy with the blowtorch was
after. Like another poster surmised, it was probably mill oil he was
burning off.

Now that's interesting. *The whole story is this. *One of our guys and
a metalworker built a table for a client. *It's made from pieces of
hot-rolled steel that had further been cold bent into curves. *They
welded together the parts, sanded it and then applied a coat of
beeswax. *And it rusted. *So now the metalworker thinks that if he
heats the steel really well it will evaporate trapped moisture and
then they'll seal it out with beeswax. *(I know, I know....) *In any
event, since it sounds like it's not moisture they're burning off
anyhow, the whole question of whether a kiln would work is pretty much
moot. *(Obviously wouldn't be hot enough to burn off oil, either.)

Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? *Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

JP

Not much response from the metalworkers because they're laughing too
hard about the moisture "trapped" in the steel.

Paint it.

John Martin

It's called hot dip galvanizing. It has been around a long time, it is
inexpensive and works very, very well.
Steve

"John Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sep 19, 10:08 pm, Jay Pique wrote:
On Sep 19, 9:23 pm, Tom Veatch wrote:



But, I don't think it was moisture the guy with the blowtorch was
after. Like another poster surmised, it was probably mill oil he was
burning off.

Now that's interesting. The whole story is this. One of our guys and
a metalworker built a table for a client. It's made from pieces of
hot-rolled steel that had further been cold bent into curves. They
welded together the parts, sanded it and then applied a coat of
beeswax. And it rusted. So now the metalworker thinks that if he
heats the steel really well it will evaporate trapped moisture and
then they'll seal it out with beeswax. (I know, I know....) In any
event, since it sounds like it's not moisture they're burning off
anyhow, the whole question of whether a kiln would work is pretty much
moot. (Obviously wouldn't be hot enough to burn off oil, either.)

Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

JP

Not much response from the metalworkers because they're laughing too
hard about the moisture "trapped" in the steel.

Paint it.

John Martin

On Sep 20, 4:04*am, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
It's called hot dip galvanizing. It has been around a long time, it is
inexpensive and works very, very well.
Steve

Could we fabricate the whole chair or table, then take it someplace to
be dipped? Or do we have to assemble it from pre-dipped steel - in
which case I gather we'd have rusting issues at the welded joints,
right?

I can't wait to unload a ration of crap....errr...."inform the
metalworkers" on Monday!

Thanks all.

JP
***********************************
Just scorping the seats.

Jay Pique wrote:
....
Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

Has to be an impervious coating of some sort.

Depends on what look is wanted, cold bluing could do or powder coat or
even painting.

--

"Jay Pique" wrote

Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

**********************

My comments on working with metal.

Hot rolled steel is a lower quality steel and it will rust in a second.
Particularly if you weld it. Cold rolled steel is smoother and does not
rust as easily. If I absolutely did not want it to rust, I wirebrushed it
with an angle grinder and immediately primered it. You can get primers for
both clean metal and rusty metal.

Steel tends to rust if heated anyway. One secret to a good paint job is
similar to applying any kind of finish on any kind of surface. That is to
make the surface absolutely clean and bare. And if it sits for a day or
two, it will not be clean and pristine anymore.

I used at least two angle grinders with wire brushes on them. I then used a
hand wire brush. I then used some emory cloth. Then I got the primer on it.

I used to make gym equipment. I was always being offered hot rolled round
stock for cheap. The cold rolled stuff was at least half again as much and
in some diameters, twice as much. The hot rolled crap would pit, rust and
generally degrade before your eyes.

Any piece that went out with hot rolled stock came back and had to be
replaced. Other shops actually gave me a bunch of the hot rolled stock. I
used it to build jigs, etc. I never used it personally in any of the good
stuff I built.

One good reason to make good welds is that there isn't any pits or cracks
for the rust to grow in. Which is why all welds were ground if necessary.
There is little need to grind a good weld. And the rust starts growing
right next to the weld where the steel was heated.

Rust is the enemy of any metal piece that must be smooth and/or must look
good. Enough care in building it and a good clean up before painting helps a
lot.

HTH

Jay Pique wrote:

Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

Clean 'em, polish 'em, gold-plate 'em. Apply a heavy coat of epoxy paint
to protect the gold. :-)

Suggest they use stainless for the next set.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:08:39 +0100, Jay Pique wrote
(in article
):


Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

JP

Simple.
Galvanize it. (or hot-dip it in zinc )

Powder coat? Red lead paint? I presume, however, that we want a "bare metal"
industrial look to this otherwise we'd not be doing this kiln-drying and
furniture polish thing?
so galvanizing it is.

Or nickel plate if it's a smooth polished look that's wanted- don't forget to
specify over copper plate though else it'll get woodworm...

Or keep it in a pure nitrogen environment if that's simpler, 'cos rust is
caused by phlogiston escaping into impure atmospheres and contamination from
bodily fluids
umm..

Remake everything in stainless steel?

Alumininuminum?

Wood?


meanwhile - beeswax? really? Where did these guys go to school?
Oh......

I'll get me coat.

Jay Pique wrote:
On Sep 19, 9:23 pm, Tom Veatch wrote:


But, I don't think it was moisture the guy with the blowtorch was
after. Like another poster surmised, it was probably mill oil he
was
burning off.

Now that's interesting. The whole story is this. One of our guys
and
a metalworker built a table for a client. It's made from pieces of
hot-rolled steel that had further been cold bent into curves. They
welded together the parts, sanded it and then applied a coat of
beeswax. And it rusted. So now the metalworker thinks that if he
heats the steel really well it will evaporate trapped moisture and
then they'll seal it out with beeswax. (I know, I know....) In any
event, since it sounds like it's not moisture they're burning off
anyhow, the whole question of whether a kiln would work is pretty
much
moot. (Obviously wouldn't be hot enough to burn off oil, either.)

Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

To how to keep it from rusting, Rust-Oleum works quite well. If you
want something better, any automotive paint shop should have a wide
range of systems intended specifically to work on steel and can match
just about any color. Or you could go with the full MIL-SPEC system
with MIL-T-8514 etch, MIL-P-23377 epoxy primer, and a MIL-PRF-85285
topcoat. If it has to have a metallic appearance then paint it with a
metallic paint.

If it is _all_ steel with no plastic or wooden or other parts, or if
it can be dissasembled and all the non-steel parts removed, and if you
can find a plating shop with a tank set up that is big enough to hold
it then you could have the whole thing chromed (or plated with another
metal of your choice, but don't count on anything but chrome being
available without a significant set-up charge). This is going to be
an expensive option, but will leave you with a durable shiny metal
surface.

Oh, and if the "metalworker" is one of your employees, you need to
have a long talk with that boy.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Lacquer.

"Jay Pique" wrote in message
...
On Sep 19, 9:23 pm, Tom Veatch wrote:


But, I don't think it was moisture the guy with the blowtorch was
after. Like another poster surmised, it was probably mill oil he was
burning off.

Now that's interesting. The whole story is this. One of our guys and
a metalworker built a table for a client. It's made from pieces of
hot-rolled steel that had further been cold bent into curves. They
welded together the parts, sanded it and then applied a coat of
beeswax. And it rusted. So now the metalworker thinks that if he
heats the steel really well it will evaporate trapped moisture and
then they'll seal it out with beeswax. (I know, I know....) In any
event, since it sounds like it's not moisture they're burning off
anyhow, the whole question of whether a kiln would work is pretty much
moot. (Obviously wouldn't be hot enough to burn off oil, either.)

Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

JP

In article ,
Jay Pique wrote:
...snipped...
Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs
from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers grumble.

JP

For ordinary hotrolled mild steel? The traditional solution is paint. If
you want the bare steel look I suppose you could use varnish or laquer.




--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org