"The economy is fundamentally sound".

Who said that as recently as today?

Bush?

McCain?

Both of the above?

Can you tell the difference?

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"The economy is fundamentally sound".

Who said that as recently as today?

Bush?

McCain?

Both of the above?

Can you tell the difference?

Lew

Sound bites on TV today, both W and Paulson said it verbatim. Exciting.
twitch,
jo4hn

On Sep 16, 1:13*am, jo4hn wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"The economy is fundamentally sound".

Who said that as recently as today?

Bush?

McCain?

Both of the above?

Can you tell the difference?

Lew

Sound bites on TV today, both W and Paulson said it verbatim. *Exciting..
* * * * twitch,
* * * * jo4hn

I believe Obama said the same thing a while back, and McCain's camp
yelled about it, then McCain said the same thing yesterday morning,
and then was saying something completely different that afternoon.

And I tend to agree, fundamentally, our economy is decent. Our exports
are up, manufacturing jobs are starting to migrate back to the US, and
a much needed correction is occurring in the financial market.

IMO the last thing we need is a bunch of short-sighted politicos
monkeying with the market forces. We need to let nature take its
course (which it's currently doing), and we should come out of it
stronger than we were. I'm glad the Fed decided to not interfere with
the Lehman Bros or Merril Lynch deals. We as a nation can't afford to
keep propping up greedy Wall Street types. Our free market wouldn't be
free any more, and there needs to be some tangible penalty for taking
on too much risk, which regular government interference would remove.

-Nathan

On Sep 16, 10:11*am, N Hurst wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:13*am, jo4hn wrote:



Lew Hodgett wrote:
"The economy is fundamentally sound".

Who said that as recently as today?

Bush?

McCain?

Both of the above?

Can you tell the difference?

Lew

Sound bites on TV today, both W and Paulson said it verbatim. *Exciting.
* * * * twitch,
* * * * jo4hn

I believe Obama said the same thing a while back, and McCain's camp
yelled about it, then McCain said the same thing yesterday morning,
and then was saying something completely different that afternoon.

And I tend to agree, fundamentally, our economy is decent. Our exports
are up, manufacturing jobs are starting to migrate back to the US, and
a much needed correction is occurring in the financial market.

IMO the last thing we need is a bunch of short-sighted politicos
monkeying with the market forces. We need to let nature take its
course (which it's currently doing), and we should come out of it
stronger than we were. I'm glad the Fed decided to not interfere with
the Lehman Bros or Merril Lynch deals. We as a nation can't afford to
keep propping up greedy Wall Street types. Our free market wouldn't be
free any more, and there needs to be some tangible penalty for taking
on too much risk, which regular government interference would remove.

-Nathan

Amen. Well said.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:49:10 GMT, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"The economy is fundamentally sound".

Who said that as recently as today?

Bush?

McCain?

Both of the above?

Can you tell the difference?

Lew

Well, from where I'm sitting, (Mexico), I'd say the US economy is sound.. or
more like sounds like it's in the dumper again..

Ride the wave, good times will be back as well as bad...
Spend a little time down here in the land of $2.50 a gallon gas and cold beer in
a bar for $2 and relax a bit..
Just don't buy sound bites with the money in my SS account ;-]


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"N Hurst" wrote:

We as a nation can't afford to
keep propping up greedy Wall Street types. Our free market wouldn't be
free any more, and there needs to be some tangible penalty for taking
on too much risk, which regular government interference would remove.


I tend to agree with you; however, it is a two edged sword.

These days John Q Citizen is invested in the market. (Pension funds,
401Ks, etc)

When one of these operations goes belly up, it is the share holders,
which includes John Q Citizen, who ultimately take the hit.

Not suggesting bail out. but it is not a simple problem.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"N Hurst" wrote:


We as a nation can't afford to

keep propping up greedy Wall Street types.

snip

I happened to watch "Modern Marvels" last evening. The show was about
the pork industry. One of the things mentioned was along the lines of
an item that can be found at:

http://oklahoma4h.okstate.edu/aitc/l...cts/swine.html

"In some areas hogs would be turned out to find their own food. Hogs
would roam freely, eating what they could find - acorns from the ground
or roots, which they dug from the ground with their snouts. On Manhattan
Island, New York, the hogs rampaged through grain fields until farmers
were forced to build a wall to keep them out. The street running along
this wall became Wall Street."

I think we should rebuild the wall.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:47:16 -0500, "Upscale" wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
Ride the wave, good times will be back as well as bad...
Spend a little time down here in the land of $2.50 a gallon gas and cold
beer in
a bar for $2 and relax a bit..

What's the medical care like down there?

VERY good... some of the best medical folks in the world here..

We pay about $3,500 a year for very good medical insurance, including medivac by
air if needed... We were paying about $10,000 a year in the States for much
worse coverage..

It would be a lot cheaper here, if I was younger.. ;-]
When we signed up, the rates were based totally on age.. no checkup, etc..
Since my wife was 48 and I was 60, my rate is double hers.. I think her part of
the $3,500 is about $1,100

Our local Dr. is wonderful.. even makes house calls if needed..
He's been in San Felipe for almost 30 years and is very experienced.. (and is on
the list for or insurance)



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Nova wrote:

I think we should rebuild the wall.


I volunteer to help.

I've flown some of those hogs from Teterboro and Westchester to the
Vineyard and Nantucket on small turboprops...

"mac davis" wrote in message
Ride the wave, good times will be back as well as bad...
Spend a little time down here in the land of $2.50 a gallon gas and cold
beer in
a bar for $2 and relax a bit..

What's the medical care like down there?

On Sep 16, 10:11*am, N Hurst wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:13*am, jo4hn wrote:



Lew Hodgett wrote:
"The economy is fundamentally sound".

Who said that as recently as today?

Bush?

McCain?

Both of the above?

Can you tell the difference?

Lew

Sound bites on TV today, both W and Paulson said it verbatim. *Exciting.
* * * * twitch,
* * * * jo4hn

I believe Obama said the same thing a while back, and McCain's camp
yelled about it, then McCain said the same thing yesterday morning,
and then was saying something completely different that afternoon.

And I tend to agree, fundamentally, our economy is decent. Our exports
are up, manufacturing jobs are starting to migrate back to the US, and
a much needed correction is occurring in the financial market.

IMO the last thing we need is a bunch of short-sighted politicos
monkeying with the market forces. We need to let nature take its
course (which it's currently doing), and we should come out of it
stronger than we were. I'm glad the Fed decided to not interfere with
the Lehman Bros or Merril Lynch deals. We as a nation can't afford to
keep propping up greedy Wall Street types. Our free market wouldn't be
free any more, and there needs to be some tangible penalty for taking
on too much risk, which regular government interference would remove.

-Nathan

Fundamentally, we haven't got anytihng like a true free market economy.

Nova wrote:
http://oklahoma4h.okstate.edu/aitc/l...cts/swine.html

"In some areas hogs would be turned out to find their own food. Hogs
would roam freely, eating what they could find - acorns from the
ground or roots, which they dug from the ground with their snouts.

When just a 10 yr. old I embarked on a serious week long mission to capture
a escaped wiener pig......after a cautious approach over a small mound.....
the steady crunching of prune pits..... inspired a quick evaluation of
capture method, technique and possible harm. Thus requiring a quick retreat
and a trip back home for a large salmon net to assist in the then later
capture of said escapee. Ironically at the final eventual moment of capture,
inside a very small cattle shed, with no room for swinging nets, that sound
of crunching pits still loud in my mind...... I flung down my net and with
my still cherished fingers, with all caution to the wind grabbed the
squiggling beast. Rod

mac davis wrote:
We pay about $3,500 a year for very good medical insurance, including
medivac by air if needed... We were paying about $10,000 a year in
the States for much worse coverage..

It would be a lot cheaper here, if I was younger.. ;-]
When we signed up, the rates were based totally on age.. no checkup,
etc.. Since my wife was 48 and I was 60, my rate is double hers.. I
think her part of the $3,500 is about $1,100
snip
mac

South is even cheaper....with insurance not required at least then. My
younger brother when visiting a friend in Belize was privileged to get
Malaria...once they decided he wasn't a white gringo going south with AIDS
(not welcomed). He spent a week in the hospital for $30.00, meals and
toilet paper not provided. Rod

Like Lew, I 'tend' to agree. I understand the desire to 'let nature take
its course' and let those that made bad business decisions suffer the
consequences. However, won't letting some of these companies fail have
just too disastrous an effect? I got the impression that if AIG failed John
Q. would see his money disappear as well. While I also believe that John Q
should bear some responsibility for where he put his money, wouldn't the
result be far too disastrous?

I don't know what the answer is, but I definitely believe that there need to
be some repercussions for taxpayer bailouts. Whether it is in the form of
regulatory safeguards, penalties, or anti-trust actions. The threatened
impact of an AIG failure made me question why one company has been able to
control such a large portion of the financial business. What became of
anti-trust actions in this country? Would measures such as those have been
appropriate in this case?

As far as the "fundamental health of the economy". Someone commented that
they agree with the positive assessments, and stated that 'manufacturing
jobs are returning to the US'. Is this in fact the case? It seems to me
that the great weakness in our economy is the fact that we rely so greatly
on our own consumerism for our economy and the fact that we are an economy
of buyers. We buy most of our goods from someone else. Its seems to me
that to be truly healthy, we need to be selling goods and services to
elements outside of our own economy thereby injecting new wealth into our
economy. I believe I heard that 2/3 of our economy is based on our own
consumption. The current vicious cycle of economic downturn causing people
to spend less, thus leading to further downturn illuminates this weakness.

I truly worry that the majority of our "healthy" economy is based upon
financial wheeling dealing, and our own ability to buy consumer goods. I
also worry that this country may have to slide to the state of a third world
economy in order to bring manufacturing back to our own shores.

Just my worried opinions, maybe I am off base. I would love to hear that I
am.

SteveP.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"N Hurst" wrote:

We as a nation can't afford to
keep propping up greedy Wall Street types. Our free market wouldn't be
free any more, and there needs to be some tangible penalty for taking
on too much risk, which regular government interference would remove.


I tend to agree with you; however, it is a two edged sword.

These days John Q Citizen is invested in the market. (Pension funds,
401Ks, etc)

When one of these operations goes belly up, it is the share holders, which
includes John Q Citizen, who ultimately take the hit.

Not suggesting bail out. but it is not a simple problem.

Lew

Highland Pairos wrote:
snip

As far as the "fundamental health of the economy". Someone commented
that they agree with the positive assessments, and stated that
'manufacturing jobs are returning to the US'. Is this in fact the
case?

As a country we produce 25% of the worlds wealth...... when the dollar
drops(exchange rates) our goods become cheaper for export and U.S.
manufacturing exports improve.

It seems to me that the great weakness in our economy is the
fact that we rely so greatly on our own consumerism for our economy

That's not a weakness but rather the purpose. Just imagine working all week
and instead of buying groceries you starve but have oodles of money under
your mattress.

and the fact that we are an economy of buyers. We buy most of our
goods from someone else.

Approx. 20% of our jobs come from manufacturing....think doctors, teachers,
lawyers, mechanics, farmers etc. as the other 80%. Some of those are
actually useful professions and possibly as valuable as a new toaster.

Its seems to me that to be truly healthy,
we need to be selling goods and services to elements outside of our
own economy thereby injecting new wealth into our economy.

Sounds good until you think empty belly with money under your mattress.
Imports or export surpluses both have serious advantages as well as major
liabilities. China is currently selling tons of stuff our way but the
average Joe there sees only modest benefit if any...the benefit of his work
and effort is going to us.


I believe
I heard that 2/3 of our economy is based on our own consumption. The
current vicious cycle of economic downturn causing people to spend
less, thus leading to further downturn illuminates this weakness.

Actually it is 100%.....2/3 is direct and the other 1/3 is to build the
infrastructure including machinery, factories etc. to produce the consumer
2/3 share. The sole purpose of the economy is to efficiently provide for the
needs and wants of the people

I truly worry that the majority of our "healthy" economy is based upon
financial wheeling dealing, and our own ability to buy consumer
goods.

I truly worry that we have way to much reliance on credit or debt.....both
the Gov. and the consumer.....Examples abound that without true limits
people will go way overboard. Whether it is a consumer needing the biggest
most plush house on the block (without the means) or Gov. programs paid with
borrowed money. Rationally the Gov. should only borrow to get through a hard
time such as war, recession or disaster and should run a surplus or pay back
the debt through all normal times.


I also worry that this country may have to slide to the state
of a third world economy in order to bring manufacturing back to our
own shores.

We are currently the worlds 3rd largest exporter.....amazingly Germany is
number one with China a understandable number two (over a billion
people).....with around 9 million people Sweden is number 19 (I'm half
Swede).

Suggesting that we would want 3rd world wages to compete with 3rd world
manufacturing makes no sense at all. In fact our standard of living is
considerably improved with cheap imports or their cheap labor.

Just my worried opinions, maybe I am off base. I would love to hear
that I am.
SteveP.

Valid enough concerns...... but I think the facts really paint a different
picture. Rod