Things were warm here in SoCal today.

96F outside my window at 10:00AM this morning and it isn't even summer
yet.

Several places hit 115F.

As usual, the beach was around 70F.

BTW, for those who are interested, download "WeatherBug", it posts
your temp on your tool bar.

Just select a zipcode.


Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Things were warm here in SoCal today.

96F outside my window at 10:00AM this morning and it isn't even summer
yet.

Several places hit 115F.

As usual, the beach was around 70F.

BTW, for those who are interested, download "WeatherBug", it posts
your temp on your tool bar.

Just select a zipcode.


Lew


Oh my. Ugly up here at 7k feet. Musta got to 80dF here. ;-)
And no air conditioning. :-)

wheeeee,
jo4hn

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
news:r0Y6k.34956$G33.7363@trnddc03...
Things were warm here in SoCal today.

96F outside my window at 10:00AM this morning and it isn't even summer
yet.

Several places hit 115F.

As usual, the beach was around 70F.

BTW, for those who are interested, download "WeatherBug", it posts your
temp on your tool bar.

Just select a zipcode.


It has been a very mild spring/summer here in Houston like last year.
Typically rain keeps the temperature down but is was dry in May and June up
until this week. Temps have been in the 90's but that is normal. Today we
are expecting yet another cold front. Several years ago the last cold front
was typically in February, and Summer started in March/April.

Personally I kinda like this "Global Warming", "Climate change", uh " NORMAL
GYRATIONS" of the Earth's temperature, as the past several Summers have
been shorter and high temps have been lower. Oh and 3 years ago we had our
first White Christmas in my 50 years of living in South Texas, 4 to 8" along
the coast line.

Ok, since I do respect the intelligence of this group, I have an OT question
posed to me by my 14-year-old son.
If water is the one substance that actually expands when frozen, how will
melting ice, at the polar caps, flood the planet; if indeed the melting ice
will occupy less space? To demonstrate his point, he filled a drinking glass
about an inch over the rim with crushed ice. When the ice melted, the
remaining water was well below the rim of the glass.

ron wrote:
Ok, since I do respect the intelligence of this group, I have an OT question
posed to me by my 14-year-old son.
If water is the one substance that actually expands when frozen, how will
melting ice, at the polar caps, flood the planet; if indeed the melting ice
will occupy less space? To demonstrate his point, he filled a drinking glass
about an inch over the rim with crushed ice. When the ice melted, the
remaining water was well below the rim of the glass.

Melting ice from the ice caps adds liquid water to the inventory, hence
the level must rise to accommodate it.

In the ice in glass demonstration the crushed ice has a significant
volume of air entrained between the crystals as well as the (relatively)
small amount of contraction volume owing to the phase change.

To demonstrate this, repeat the experiment as done, and mark the water
level. Then put the glass in the freezer and refreeze it to solid ice
and compare the levels.

--

ron wrote:
: If water is the one substance that actually expands when frozen, how will
: melting ice, at the polar caps, flood the planet; if indeed the melting ice
: will occupy less space?

Same reason lakes and rivers go down in the winter and rise when the
snow melts in the spring. Some of the ice is on land (think
Antarctica). When it melts the water moves from the land to the
ocean. So, more water in the ocean, less on the land.

--- Chip

"ron" wrote in message
...
Ok, since I do respect the intelligence of this group, I have an OT
question posed to me by my 14-year-old son.
If water is the one substance that actually expands when frozen, how will
melting ice, at the polar caps, flood the planet; if indeed the melting
ice will occupy less space? To demonstrate his point, he filled a drinking
glass about an inch over the rim with crushed ice. When the ice melted,
the remaining water was well below the rim of the glass.


If he did not fill the air space not occupied by ice with water that space
would be taken up when the ice turned to water. Conduct the experiment with
a full glass of ice and fill 95% with water and you will probably notice
that the level rises very little as the ice melts.

You have to consider the "Political Spin" and now Gore and the like will
benefit from this new "mental" problem.

The Half Truth, if the polar ice melted there would be global flooding, in
some places the beaches would be a few feet smaller in width between the
main highway and the water. Some times "high tide" causes more flooding.
That will differ more or less on the local geological conditions. None of
this flooding would be any where comparable to the flooding going on in the
mid west.

Basically, if the melting of the ice was going to be a big problem we "all"
would already be significantly affected by that which has melted already.

Why so much flooding in the mid west? Because along with the rain, snow
melt that is happening closer to summer than earlier in the season. There
has always been flooding and always will be flooding. That's why we built
dams in the early 1900's.

I wonder what Gore thinks caused the heat records that were set a hundred
years ago.

The crushed ice example is misleading, as there is a considerable amount of
air in the matrix. Floating ice, such as the North polar ice cap, will have
no effect on sea level as it melts. However, ice on land, such as the
Greenland ice sheet or the Antarctic ice mass, will raise sea levels as it
melts off the land and into the seas. Here's the weird bit: the fresh water
melting off the Greenland ice sheet may shut down the thermohaline circuit
(nomenclature?) which will prevent tropical warmth from the Gulf of Mexico
and Caribbean from reaching the North Atlantic. This would have the effect
of plunging Canada, the northern US and northern Europe into a minor ice
age. Which may increase the albedo of the Northern hemisphere and counteract
the effects of greenhouse gases eventually. But my personal belief is no
reliable computer models exist to predict the extent of global warming based
on current data. Moreover, we still have not gone outside normal climate
swings evidenced in the geologic record. IF global warming is caused by
human use of fossil fuel and IF the only way to avert disastrous warming is
to curtail such use NOW, then we are well and truly screwed.

on topic If we get a mini ice age in the Northern latitudes and human
civilisation has a substantial collapse due to resource wars, then in about
300 to 3000 years there's going to be some awesome, tight-grained lumber
available for the remaining population as they reinhabit the North.

Bruce

"ron" wrote in message
...
Ok, since I do respect the intelligence of this group, I have an OT
question posed to me by my 14-year-old son.
If water is the one substance that actually expands when frozen, how will
melting ice, at the polar caps, flood the planet; if indeed the melting
ice will occupy less space? To demonstrate his point, he filled a drinking
glass about an inch over the rim with crushed ice. When the ice melted,
the remaining water was well below the rim of the glass.

On Jun 20, 8:34 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Things were warm here in SoCal today.

96F outside my window at 10:00AM this morning and it isn't even summer
yet.

Several places hit 115F.

As usual, the beach was around 70F.

BTW, for those who are interested, download "WeatherBug", it posts
your temp on your tool bar.

Just select a zipcode.

Lew

Back around 6/6, 6/7, 6/8 we got a preview that was hotter than late
July most years, right on 100, maybe a degree or two over, nighttime
around 80. Those days, I was carting a camera bag around Virginia
International Raceway grabbing shots for a couple articles while I
tried to soak every stitch of clothing I'd brought with me. Even my
boonie hat was soaked to the top. I had to bail out before it was all
over. Given my weight and age, I figured heat exhaustion was all I
wanted. Heat prostration and heat stroke can really screw up your
future.

I do NOT know how the drivers stood it, inside a triple layer Nomex
suit, with gloves and boots and helmet. The pro drivers depend on
cooled suits and helmets. These guys are all amateurs, and don't have
the resources for that kind of thing...if their antique and near
antique cars would provide the room and power.

On Jun 21, 11:33*am, "Leon" wrote:
"ron" wrote in message

...

Ok, since I do respect the intelligence of this group, I have an OT
question posed to me by my 14-year-old son.
If water is the one substance that actually expands when frozen, how will
melting ice, at the polar caps, flood the planet; if indeed the melting
ice will occupy less space? To demonstrate his point, he filled a drinking
glass about an inch over the rim with crushed ice. When the ice melted,
the remaining water was well below the rim of the glass.

If he did not fill the air space not occupied by ice with water that space
would be taken up when the ice turned to water. *Conduct the experiment with
a full glass of ice and fill 95% with water and you will probably notice
that the level rises very little as the ice melts.

You have to consider the "Political Spin" and now Gore and the like will
benefit from this new "mental" problem.

The Half Truth, if the polar ice melted there would be global flooding, in
some places the beaches would be a few feet smaller in width between the
main highway and the water. *Some times "high tide" causes more flooding.
That will differ more or less on the local geological conditions. *None of
this flooding would be any where comparable to the flooding going on in the
mid west.

Basically, if the melting of the ice was going to be a big problem we "all"
would already be significantly affected by that which has melted already.

Why so much flooding in the mid west? *Because along with the rain, snow
melt that is happening closer to summer than earlier in the season. *There
has always been flooding and always will be flooding. *That's *why we built
dams in the early 1900's.

I wonder what Gore thinks caused the heat records that were set a hundred
years ago.

Ahhh yes. The politics of fear. People can be controlled through fear.
Fear of drowning due to global warming, fear of rag-heads popping up
through sewer-lids with mini-nukes, fear of SATAN!!! (that was in my
best Dana Carvey/Church Lady voice, btw with substantial
reverb..verb...verb...verb) Fear from the left, fear from the right.
There will always be those who have figured out that "if you scare
them enough, they will follow you if you appear to have a solution".
The Great Unwashed will then accept that aggression is really a
defensive manoeuvre . Poland was a threat to Germany, right?
We are a pretty resourceful bunch. We got this far on this planet. As
we learn that coal isn't 'bad' as long as you don't burn it in a
stupid way. As long as we realise that bio-diesel is a very stupid
path to follow—a path laid out for some pork projects. "Let's not
eat!! Let us burn out food instead!" Smart. Very smart. "We'll show
those towelheads we don't need their oil!! We'll use our food!!"
You see, we can't trust anybody who has anything we have become
dependant upon.
Duhhhh. Hell, even GM finally 'gets it'. They're thinking of dropping
the Hummer. NOT because it is losing money, but because they ****ing
care about us!!
Follow the money, follow the power, and you'll find bags and bags of
fear, ready to be deployed to keep the serfs in line.

Have a nice day.

r (btw, Leon, this is not a rant aimed at you, but in support of what
you are saying about Gore and his crap.)

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:34:31 GMT, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Things were warm here in SoCal today.

96F outside my window at 10:00AM this morning and it isn't even summer
yet.

Several places hit 115F.

As usual, the beach was around 70F.

BTW, for those who are interested, download "WeatherBug", it posts
your temp on your tool bar.

Just select a zipcode.


Lew

Typical Baja weather this week...
It was 89f this morning at 6 am with 58% humidity..

The TS is well protected but I'm watching the old grinder table turn orange...
Kinda pretty..

Oh.. the shop was 93f this morning... AC is a wonderful thing..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Robatoy" wrote

best Dana Carvey/Church Lady voice, btw with substantial
reverb..verb...verb...verb)

That's "echo", not "reverb"! g,d&r

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jun 21, 2:09*pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote

best Dana Carvey/Church Lady voice, btw with substantial
reverb..verb...verb...verb)

That's "echo", not "reverb"! *g,d&r

Indeed it is. I stand (sit) corrected. In this case, the difference
is clear. In others, there often is a lot of overlap between delay,
reverb, and echo. Or so I'm told. (Not to Miller-Clarke the discussion
you understand...G)

It's not the floating icebergs that can contribute to rising water levels,
but it is the ice supported above existing water levels on land masses that
could potentially pose a problem. This would effectively be like holding
your ice cubes above your glass of water, and allowing the melting ice to
drip into it. The difficulty with getting honest information about these
glaciers, however, is that there are so many groups out there with agendas,
etc, who don't want you to know that several glaciers are expanding while
others are melting. Also, global temperature readings have been falsely
skewed to higher levels due to weather stations in places like Siberia no
longer reporting their data.

Hope this helps.

-Barry

"ron" wrote in message
...
Ok, since I do respect the intelligence of this group, I have an OT
question posed to me by my 14-year-old son.
If water is the one substance that actually expands when frozen, how will
melting ice, at the polar caps, flood the planet; if indeed the melting
ice will occupy less space? To demonstrate his point, he filled a drinking
glass about an inch over the rim with crushed ice. When the ice melted,
the remaining water was well below the rim of the glass.

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:33:35 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

The Half Truth, if the polar ice melted there would be global flooding, in
some places the beaches would be a few feet smaller in width between the
main highway and the water. Some times "high tide" causes more flooding.
That will differ more or less on the local geological conditions. None of
this flooding would be any where comparable to the flooding going on in the
mid west.

A while back I read something that said that if the land-based ice
melted it would raise sea levels up to 200 feet (Could have been 100,
if so just adjust what follows - it was too long ago to remember
exactly and I don't care to do it over). That sounded a bit off to me,
so I did some really dirty research and discovered that, based on the
average thickness of the Antarctica ice sheet and the Greenland ice
sheet (both of which are mostly over land) and their approximate area,
there is, in fact, enough water volume stored to raise the ocean level
nearly that 200 (or 100, whatever it was) feet.

The only catch was that the sides of the oceans would have to be
vertical - no allowance for increasing area of the ocean as it rises.
That's why the estimates that say up to 20 or so feet are probably
much more sensible.

But, there *is* enough water in those ice sheets to significantly
raise ocean levels if they were to melt completely.

Basically, if the melting of the ice was going to be a big problem we "all"
would already be significantly affected by that which has melted already.

So far the ocean level increases have only been a few inches - not
enough to cause a great deal of trouble anywhere but Venice.

I am not convinced global "warming/climate change", but the ocean
levels *are* up slightly and there is plenty of ice over land to cause
a real mess *if* enough of it were to melt.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

I do NOT know how the drivers stood it, inside a triple layer Nomex
suit, with gloves and boots and helmet. The pro drivers depend on
cooled suits and helmets. These guys are all amateurs, and don't have
the resources for that kind of thing...if their antique and near
antique cars would provide the room and power.

I saw F1 drivers go without Nomex at the 1984 USGP held at the Texas
State Fairgrounds in Dallas, Texas in JULY!. What the hell were they
thinking?
Nigel Mansel, driving a John Player Lotus ran out of fuel a couple of
hundred yards from the finish and while attempting to push the Lotus up a
slight incline to the finish line (illegal anyway IIRC) passed out and fell
out on the course.

Dave in Houston

"jo4hn" wrote in message
m...

Oh my. Ugly up here at 7k feet. Musta got to 80dF here. ;-)
And no air conditioning. :-)

But what? 15% humidity?

Dave in Houston

Dave in Houston wrote:
"jo4hn" wrote in message
m...

Oh my. Ugly up here at 7k feet. Musta got to 80dF here. ;-)
And no air conditioning. :-)

But what? 15% humidity?

Dave in Houston


Here in AZ at 1400ft, 112F and 10% today. It's a dry heat. Nice breeze
today - kind of like a blast furnace.

"Doug Winterburn" wrote:

Here in AZ at 1400ft, 112F and 10% today. It's a dry heat. Nice
breeze today - kind of like a blast furnace.

Having spent time in steel mills, especially on the pouring platform,
less than 10 ft from a stream of 2800F molten metal, being poured into
the ingot, I can relate.

That said, "Toasty" is taking on a whole new meaning here in SoCal.

It is now 6:00PM PDST, well past the hottest part of the day, and the
local station is posting 98F realtime.

Expect to continue thru at least Monday.

At least we haven't had to fight flooding, YET.

Lew