[Mike in Arkansas]

Anyone know whats up with Sawmill Creek Woodworking Forum? All I get
is a home page to Sawmillcreek.org
There is a forum link but it just goes to another page of links to
fine woodworking magazine forum. Anyone able to access the forums or
know whats going on?

[Mike in Arkansas]

On Feb 12, 11:35 pm, JeffB wrote:
Their domain name registration expired. It has since been renewed, but

Thanks Jeff

[Pig]

Which raises another question, like what's going on over there at
SMC. Lately the moderators have been really aggressive in locking
discussions that in their "opinion" were straying into too much
controversy, and for me, its getting a little bit too much to take, to
the point that I've really stopped posting over there, and I've
noticed a general dropoff of some of the more seasoned regulars,
whether for the same reason or not, I don't know. The "gentility"
factor has taken over and removed the spice from open and honest
discussion and inserted a Political Correctness aroma which to me is
starting to stink. When I'm trying to make a living I'll put up with
PC, but in my leisure time I get a belly full and would just as soon
not deal with it. Voting with my feet, I guess.


On Feb 12, 11:12*pm, Mike in Arkansas wrote:
Anyone know whats up with Sawmill Creek Woodworking Forum? *All I get
is a home page to Sawmillcreek.org
There is a forum link but it just goes to another page of links to
fine woodworking magazine forum. *Anyone able to access the forums or
know whats going on?

[LRod]

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:18:20 -0800 (PST), Pig
wrote:

Which raises another question, like what's going on over there at
SMC [Sawmill Creek]. Lately the moderators have been really aggressive in locking
discussions that in their "opinion" were straying into too much
controversy, and for me, its getting a little bit too much to take, to
the point that I've really stopped posting over there, and I've
noticed a general dropoff of some of the more seasoned regulars,
whether for the same reason or not, I don't know. The "gentility"
factor has taken over and removed the spice from open and honest
discussion and inserted a Political Correctness aroma which to me is
starting to stink. When I'm trying to make a living I'll put up with
PC, but in my leisure time I get a belly full and would just as soon
not deal with it. Voting with my feet, I guess.

Although I'd been on very infrequently in recent years, I was one of
the original members as it arose after Badger Pond closed. A month or
so ago I ran into the same thing you're talking about and wound up
getting locked out. Locked out! I couldn't even get thrown off Badger
Pond. How am I locked out? Well, they can't fire me, I quit.

After some backchannel conversation with friends I found out that
there are several of us originals who have had enough of Keith
Outten's high handedness and similarly used their feet. I was really
surprised. I mean some of us go way back, but they can proceed without
me--I won't be back. They really pale by comparison to WoodCentral, my
*real* home (except for the wreck, of course, but forum vs usenet is
apples and oranges).


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

[Mike in Arkansas]

On Feb 13, 10:46 am, LRod wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:18:20 -0800 (PST), Pig
wrote:

Which raises another question, like what's going on over there at
SMC [Sawmill Creek]. Lately the moderators have been really aggressive in locking
discussions
Well I appreciate not having to read through a bunch of tiresome BS,
****ing contests over who is right on a particular subject, personal
attacks and other time wasting matters. After all, I can get that
here and spam to boot. Having said that, SMC will no longer give
non-contributors full access to some of the forums and they will have
to put up with ads. Contributors see no ads and continue to have full
access. One of the forums non contributors will no longer be able to
write to (they can still read) will be the sale and swap forum. I
think thats going to cut down a lot on some of the fine deals that
come up there so that's not a good thing for the entire membership,
contributors or not. This was brought on by the fact that only 9% of
all SMC members are contributors for 2008. So financially, they are
between a rock and a hard place. They're in the cat bird seat and
have made this decision. I can respect that and hope it doesn't
drive off too many non-contributing contributors if you know what I
mean.

[Max]

"Pig" wrote
Which raises another question, like what's going on over there at
SMC. Lately the moderators have been really aggressive in locking
discussions that in their "opinion" were straying into too much
controversy, and for me, its getting a little bit too much to take, to
the point that I've really stopped posting over there, and I've
noticed a general dropoff of some of the more seasoned regulars,
whether for the same reason or not, I don't know. The "gentility"
factor has taken over and removed the spice from open and honest
discussion and inserted a Political Correctness aroma which to me is
starting to stink. When I'm trying to make a living I'll put up with
PC, but in my leisure time I get a belly full and would just as soon
not deal with it. Voting with my feet, I guess.

Have you tried alt.politics?

Max

[Pig]

On Feb 13, 6:35*pm, "Max" wrote:
"Pig" *wrote
Which raises another question, like what's going on over there at
SMC. *Lately the moderators have been really aggressive in locking
discussions that in their "opinion" were straying into too much
controversy, and for me, its getting a little bit too much to take, to
the point that I've really stopped posting over there, and I've
noticed a general dropoff of some of the more seasoned regulars,
whether for the same reason or not, I don't know. *The "gentility"
factor has taken over and removed the spice from open and honest
discussion and inserted a Political Correctness aroma which to me is
starting to stink. *When I'm trying to make a living I'll put up with
PC, but in my leisure time I get a belly full and would just as soon
not deal with it. *Voting with my feet, I guess.

Have you tried alt.politics?

Max



No, do they have a handtool forum?

[LRod]

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:16:24 -0800 (PST), Mike in Arkansas
wrote:

On Feb 13, 10:46 am, LRod wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:18:20 -0800 (PST), Pig
wrote:

Which raises another question, like what's going on over there at
SMC [Sawmill Creek]. Lately the moderators have been really aggressive in locking
discussions
Well I appreciate not having to read through a bunch of tiresome BS,
****ing contests over who is right on a particular subject, personal
attacks and other time wasting matters. After all, I can get that
here and spam to boot. Having said that, SMC will no longer give
non-contributors full access to some of the forums and they will have
to put up with ads. Contributors see no ads and continue to have full
access. One of the forums non contributors will no longer be able to
write to (they can still read) will be the sale and swap forum. I
think thats going to cut down a lot on some of the fine deals that
come up there so that's not a good thing for the entire membership,
contributors or not. This was brought on by the fact that only 9% of
all SMC members are contributors for 2008. So financially, they are
between a rock and a hard place. They're in the cat bird seat and
have made this decision. I can respect that and hope it doesn't
drive off too many non-contributing contributors if you know what I
mean.

Makes you wonder where they went wrong. Let's examine two parallel
models, SMC and WoodCentral.

WC was in place before the demise of the Pond. SMC arose directly from
the ashes. At first there were a number of people who participated in
both (and there may still be, but the number is dwindling--WC has a
much higher percentage of ex-Ponders, I believe).

The culture of the Pond from which we came was founded in the very
civility you address, although there was never a problem with OT posts
(and I don't think there is on any woodworking forum). Granted, that
moderation was applied rather heavy handedly, particularly toward the
end, but the vast majority of the people I remember from the Pond
didn't need it.

WoodCentral far and away is the more Pond-like of the two fora insofar
as behavior and sense of community is concerned. Although there is a
team of moderators, I think the average user would be able to name one
beyond Ellis Walentine, himself.

In the early years of SMC, the community was very much like the Pond
and WC. But obviously some philosophies changed at SMC at the top
level. Now, the interesting thing is, BP was virtually wholly member
supported. WC is virtually wholly member supported. There is some
advertising income at WC (so unobtrusive you'd hardly notice) and
apparently from the above post there is some at SMC.

So why the diminution of accessibilty at SMC vs WC's completely open
model? I'm sure someone with some serious sociology chops (I have
none) will be able to put a better answer to it than me, but having
participated heavily in two of the three fora (and significantly in
the third), I think it comes down to heavy handed moderation.

Having said that, I think BP isn't a good example, because the solo
oversight pretty much doomed it and the cost of a forum was somewhat
different in its days than now. Still, there sure wasn't a lack of
sponsorship by the members, even at the end. So what else is SMC doing
wrong?

Limiting content (such as graphics embedded in posts--and a couple of
other fora do that as well) seems to me to be a self defeating tactic.
The whole concept of the internet is distribution of content.
Woodworkers type strings into search engines to see examples of work.
Requiring registration or support to view content goes against the
grain, in my view.

However, I digress. As I said, SMC has lost me for good. A loss for
them? Well, I like to think so, but I really don't care. I have a
feeling it'll play out to an early demise for them and I have a hunch
they'll go to their grave wondering what happened.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.