Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
Can anyone offer some help on the best method(s) for ebonizing maple? If
you've actually done this, how deeply does the ebonizing method you used penetrate? tia, jc |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
On Jan 15, 4:14*pm, "Joe" wrote:
Can anyone offer some help on the best method(s) for ebonizing maple? *If you've actually done this, how deeply does the ebonizing method you used penetrate? tia, jc You might dissolve some steel wool in vinegar and try on a piece of maple scrap. Smitty |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
Can anyone offer some help on the best method(s) for ebonizing maple?
I've gotten excellent results on several species of wood with black leather dye. Any shoe repair shop should be able to provide it. Joel |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
" wrote in
: On Jan 15, 4:14*pm, "Joe" wrote: Can anyone offer some help on the best method(s) for ebonizing maple? *I f you've actually done this, how deeply does the ebonizing method you used penetrate? tia, jc You might dissolve some steel wool in vinegar and try on a piece of maple scrap. Smitty I don't think this will work on maple, I could be wrong though. There are two ways of creating an "ebonized" finish in woods like walnut and oak - chemical reaction and dye. By dissolving shreaded steel wool in white vinegar, wait until it dissolves, and "painting" this on the wood, a chemical reaction takes place between the iron and the tannin in the wood resulting in a dark purple, dark brown, or black color (actual color depends upon species of wood and its tannin content). The other way is to stain the wood with a dye. There are several things that a google search revealed, shoe polish, India ink, commercial stains, and what I use for small projects - a Marks-A-Lot permenent marker. You might even be able to use a fabric dye (Ritz) dissolved in alcohol. The best resules will be from a non-pigmented dye/stain (a liquid that has no solid particles - everything is dissolved). This will penetrate further into the wood that a stain that has pigment particles that will tend to be trapped on the surface of the wood. So to specificly answer your question - I've used the steel wool/vinegar method on walnut and didn't think it was dark enough. It raised the grain but went deep enough that I could sand the fuzzies down with 320 and did not sand through the color. The marker worked best giving aa deep black color. Since the marker used alcohol it raised the grain much less, but I still sanded and did not go through the color. Sorry I don't have better recomendations for maple. Can you try what we've mentioned on scraps and report back to the list? |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
"Joe" wrote in message . net... Can anyone offer some help on the best method(s) for ebonizing maple? If you've actually done this, how deeply does the ebonizing method you used penetrate? The ferrous acetate method works only on high-tannin content woods, as mentioned. Some have added tannin with tea baths and then the acetate. Works like nothing on hard maple. Dye is the answer, and water-based my preference, so it gets a bit farther in before its ride evaporates. You can still see the grain through two coats, but it is black. Not 100-grit black, but two strokes of 320 deep maybe. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
|
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
wrote in message ... On Jan 15, 4:14 pm, "Joe" wrote: Can anyone offer some help on the best method(s) for ebonizing maple? If you've actually done this, how deeply does the ebonizing method you used penetrate? tia, jc You might dissolve some steel wool in vinegar and try on a piece of maple scrap. Smitty I think that only works on Oak. |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
On 16 Jan, 11:05, "George" wrote:
The ferrous acetate method works only on high-tannin content woods Steel wool + vinegar will often give you a black stain on maple or softwoods too. What you're seeing is black ferrous oxide, rather than the acetates or tannates. It's usable on indoor work (try it first), but has a risk of turning brown (ferric oxide / red rust) if it's kept wet. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
Joe wrote:
Can anyone offer some help on the best method(s) for ebonizing maple? If you've actually done this, how deeply does the ebonizing method you used penetrate? tia, jc I have used water soluble anilyne dyes on soft maple several times and think it's excellent. I first wet the wood, let dry, then sand with 220 before I apply the dye. Sanding the raised grain before applying the dye lets you sand less aggressively after you've dyed the wood. I apply oil/varnish/terps or shellac as a top coat and it seems to hold up well. Rick |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
Joe wrote:
Can anyone offer some help on the best method(s) for ebonizing maple? If you've actually done this, how deeply does the ebonizing method you used penetrate? I've used India Ink on ash and maple, but have no idea how deeply it penetrates. It is _black_, though. I buy it in the pen aisle at Staples. All inks are not created equal, so try the one you buy on scrap. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
"Joe" wrote in message et... George, Since I'm going for less penetration, would alcohol based dye be better in your opinion? Makes sense. The alcohol would evaporate faster. I've found alcohol dyes to be fairly shallow, though better than pigment stains. It's a push/pull if you don't do a fuzz set and sand prior to application, because you'll have to defuzz, taking off the shallow color. I still like two coats. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
On 16 Jan, 17:43, "Joe" wrote:
I'm going to try it and some other suggestions as well. If I cared seriously about this project, then I'd probably regard it as an excuse to try out some better eboniser recipes. I've never had any luck with tea as a source of tannins, and I can't get the right sort of Japanese persimmons to use them either. As a better iron-black stain can be made from the tannates than from the unstable oxides, I'd still want to try it though. So this sounds like a starting point of vinegar, van dyke brown solution and steel wool. I'd be interested if anyone has tried it. Van dyke is an old recipe for a walnut brown pigment, extracted from walnut husks. It's easy to DIY yourself (in Autumn, from green walnut husks) but it's a filthy proces and the stuff is easily and cheaply available commercially as nice well-behaved crystals. Just dissolve them in a bit of hot water. This dye also has a long history of being light-stable and reliable. It's one of the few stain ingredients I actually use - I'm no fan of the modern synthetic ones. As always with the vinegar + steel wool recipe, weight the steel wool down below the surface. Any air contamination directly onto it turns it brown instead of black (ferric oxide, rather than ferrous oxide). Discard if it looks off-colour, brownish or mouldy. |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On 16 Jan, 17:43, "Joe" wrote: I'm going to try it and some other suggestions as well. If I cared seriously about this project, then I'd probably regard it as an excuse to try out some better eboniser recipes. I've never had any luck with tea as a source of tannins, and I can't get the right sort of Japanese persimmons to use them either. As a better iron-black stain can be made from the tannates than from the unstable oxides, I'd still want to try it though. So this sounds like a starting point of vinegar, van dyke brown solution and steel wool. I'd be interested if anyone has tried it. Van dyke is an old recipe for a walnut brown pigment, extracted from walnut husks. It's easy to DIY yourself (in Autumn, from green walnut husks) but it's a filthy proces and the stuff is easily and cheaply available commercially as nice well-behaved crystals. Just dissolve them in a bit of hot water. This dye also has a long history of being light-stable and reliable. It's one of the few stain ingredients I actually use - I'm no fan of the modern synthetic ones. As always with the vinegar + steel wool recipe, weight the steel wool down below the surface. Any air contamination directly onto it turns it brown instead of black (ferric oxide, rather than ferrous oxide). Discard if it looks off-colour, brownish or mouldy. Thanks again Andy. This project is definately worth it, so I think I'm going to be an expert on this by the time I'm through. Joe |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
On 17 Jan, 11:25, "Joe" wrote:
I think I'm going to be an expert on this by the time I'm through. In that case, keep your eyes open for a copy of Sam Allen's "Classic Finishing Techniques" |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
"India Ink" is too general a term for dark black, waterproof
ink. What you may want to look for is a black "drafting ink". WAAAAY back in The Old Days (Daze?) - "drafting" was done with inking pens and ink - on vellum. Special inking pens were invented for "drawing" consistent line widths that used a small metal tube through which the ink would flow when the tip of the tube contacted the vellum. A small, weighted, wire whose diameter with slightly smaller than the ID of the metal tube would limit the amount of flowing ink - and help keep the inside of the tube clean since the "drafting ink" had a high solids content (very finely ground pigment) in a fast drying clear liquid. (You can still get Rapid-O-Graph inking pens - but the fine line one's are E X - phreakin' - P E N S I V E these days. Design Higgins WaterProof Drawing Ink 4415 "For use with all art and drafting instruments and brushes. Superb for transparent washes. . . . Not launderproof" I asked a knowledgeable sales person of an arts supply store what he thought was the best ink for "ebonizing" light colored woods. He walked right to the drawing ink specified above. NOT "invexpensive" - 26 milliliters /cc for about $4 - but a little goes a long ways. Here's a link to a closeup of a sample - on maple. http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T.../Tempwood.html charlie b |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
"charlieb" wrote: WAAAAY back in The Old Days (Daze?) - "drafting" was done with inking pens and ink - on vellum. Tell me about it. Spent almost a year bent over a drafting board "inking" drawings as part of a co-op education program. Didn't have fancy pens to do the job either, simply a split tip pen that you adjusted line width with a thumb screw and filled with an eye dropper from the India ink bottle. Buy that time, ink drawings were pretty much a relic in general industry; however, if nothing else, it taught you patience. Lew |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
"charlieb" wrote in message ... "India Ink" is too general a term for dark black, waterproof ink. What you may want to look for is a black "drafting ink". WAAAAY back in The Old Days (Daze?) - "drafting" was done with inking pens and ink - on vellum. Special inking pens were invented for "drawing" consistent line widths that used a small metal tube through which the ink would flow when the tip of the tube contacted the vellum. A small, weighted, wire whose diameter with slightly smaller than the ID of the metal tube would limit the amount of flowing ink - and help keep the inside of the tube clean since the "drafting ink" had a high solids content (very finely ground pigment) in a fast drying clear liquid. (You can still get Rapid-O-Graph inking pens - but the fine line one's are E X - phreakin' - P E N S I V E these days. Design Higgins WaterProof Drawing Ink 4415 "For use with all art and drafting instruments and brushes. Superb for transparent washes. . . . Not launderproof" I asked a knowledgeable sales person of an arts supply store what he thought was the best ink for "ebonizing" light colored woods. He walked right to the drawing ink specified above. NOT "invexpensive" - 26 milliliters /cc for about $4 - but a little goes a long ways. Here's a link to a closeup of a sample - on maple. http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T.../Tempwood.html charlie b Wow! Thanks for the info and the photo Charlie. Gratefully, Joe C. |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
Joe wrote:
Wow! Thanks for the info and the photo Charlie. Gratefully, No problem Joe. Bought this stuff to ebonize some maple finials I'm doing for next year's christmas ornaments. Your question got me to actually check it out on a Two Arcs sample I'd done while playing with Multi Axis ideas Barbara Dill's article on the subject in the Fall 07 American Woodturner magazine. Surprisingly, the results are very similar to what I got with black felt tip pens - though being able to brush it on will lt me get into tight spots a felt tip couldn't reach. Unlike felt tips, this ink raises the grain just a little, producing a matt finish - the felt tip being more like satin/semi-gloss. May use ink on some african blackwood stuff and maybe walnut as well. Thanks for the incentive to get off my ass and try the stuff out. charlie b |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
charlieb wrote:
Design Higgins WaterProof Drawing Ink 4415 "For use with all art and drafting instruments and brushes. Superb for transparent washes. . . . Not launderproof" I asked a knowledgeable sales person of an arts supply store what he thought was the best ink for "ebonizing" light colored woods. He walked right to the drawing ink specified above. NOT "invexpensive" - 26 milliliters /cc for about $4 - but a little goes a long ways. That's exactly the stuff I get that works. I won't mention the stuff that didn't. G |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
Boy, that brought back memories, charlie. I spent many hours bent over a
drafting desk in my younger days. *Somewhere* in all my stuff I still have a set of Kohinor (sp?) Rapid-o-graph pens. On my drafting desk, I've got a pair of K&E Leroy lettering "bugs" with pens and several lettering guides. I found dried up bottles of Higgins Black India ink and some not-yet-dead bottles of Windsor and Newton colored inks (I used the colored inks for airbrush art). I found the case to my Dietzgen compass set, but it was empty (pencil and inking set). Gotta do a SERIOUS clean-up this Spring! More to the topic - I tried the vinegar and steel wool method this weekend on maple. It made the wood wet and smell kinda nice, but no staining. |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
I used Bob Flexner's method on some oak. (I am finishing the pieces at this
moment). He calls for black aniline dye followed by black pigment stain. I used both and these pieces are VERY black. The test pieces that I did look really good when I clear coated them. SteveP. "Smaug Ichorfang" wrote in message ... Boy, that brought back memories, charlie. I spent many hours bent over a drafting desk in my younger days. *Somewhere* in all my stuff I still have a set of Kohinor (sp?) Rapid-o-graph pens. On my drafting desk, I've got a pair of K&E Leroy lettering "bugs" with pens and several lettering guides. I found dried up bottles of Higgins Black India ink and some not-yet-dead bottles of Windsor and Newton colored inks (I used the colored inks for airbrush art). I found the case to my Dietzgen compass set, but it was empty (pencil and inking set). Gotta do a SERIOUS clean-up this Spring! More to the topic - I tried the vinegar and steel wool method this weekend on maple. It made the wood wet and smell kinda nice, but no staining. |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
|
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
ebonizing maple
|
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Ebonizing wood | Woodworking | |||
Ebonizing | Woodworking | |||
Sumi ink for ebonizing | Woodworking | |||
[OT more-or-less] Ebonizing With India Ink | Woodworking | |||
adventures in ebonizing | Woodworking |