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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
from HF. . .any comments on this one;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 -- Swampbug ----------------------- |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Swampbug wrote:
from HF. . .any comments on this one; http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 Last month's edition of "Fine Woodworking" magazine had an article about HVLP sprayers, although the topic is not new and has been written about extensively. They used to be quite expensive but have considerably come down in price in the last 5 years.From everything I've read, a decent HVLP system can be had for about $200. Inexpensive units, like the HF one you indicated, may be more frustrating then they're worth. Especially if you intend to spray waterborne finishes. Units like this one tend to have an underpowered turbine and low quality spray gun... usually with a tip that's not suitable for waterborne finishes. I'm usually a big fan of inexpensive tools that can be made more useful by "tweaking" them past their short comings. But I've had a fair bit of experience with sprayers (good and bad) and they're not the type of tool that can usually be improved upon. There's many ways to build a project "on the cheap" (hand saw instead of a power saw... chisels and hand planes instead of a router) and a finish can be applied by hand or brush that, with a bit more time and elbow grease, will be satisfactory. Spraying offers many advantages, including speed, but cheap spray equipment can be disappointing... and time consuming. In my humble opinion, you're better off to save up a few more shekels and invest in a unit that will perform better "right out of the box". Cheers -- Message posted via CraftKB.com http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...rking/200801/1 |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0600, "Swampbug"
wrote: from HF. . .any comments on this one; http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 Why yes... I can comment. First, a quick background. I own that exact unit and an $800 Fuji 4 stage setup and have used both extensively. The HVLP in your link is one of the few items from HF I've been happy buying, ever! Pros on the HF unit: - Cheap - Very easy to use (non-adjustable) - Lightweight - Easy to clean - Good to spectacular results are possible - Viscosity cup included - HVLP systems have zero problems due to water and oil in the air line - No large and expensive compressor needed - Very portable and easy to store - Plastic gun is durable and impervious to finishes Cons: - Short, non-extendable hose - few adjustments (see "easy to use!") - Loud, especially as the turbine is close by with the short hose - Hose sometimes pops off, as it's a friction fit - I haven't seen a source for spare parts - Only one tip setup available (see "easy to use") - Many gun parts not replaceable (see "easy to use" G) - No filter on pickup tube, so filtering the finish before pouring it into the cub is extra important. The HF unit actually works great for anything where the user can control the viscosity of the finish. The user MUST get the finish into a narrow range, as the gun isn't really adjustable, and no other tip/needle setups are available. This ranges from really easy to do with nitrocellulose lacquer and dye stain, to virtually impossible with many waterborne products and latex paints. Most phenolic and polyurethane varnishes, as well as shellac, will fall somewhere in between on the "thinability" scale. For the user who prefers easily thinned products, and is willing to experiment a bit with the included viscosity cup, scrap stock, and a notebook, this is not a problem. Due to the warm air in an HVLP system, different thinners may be required than would be used brushing, to retard drying times. The extra money spent on the high-end unit allows one to spray all kinds of finishes (with extra $75 gun setups), add different feeds (high-capacity pressure pots, gravity, mini-cups), get replacement parts, greatly extend the hose, etc... I still use my HF unit for spraying lighter weight materials like dyes, stains, Olympic Maximum oil, and deck stains. The bottom line: _Once the product is in the proper viscosity range_, I can lay down just as good a finish with the $69 unit, as I can with the expensive system. Both have valuable places in my shop. If you never go outside the capabilities of the HF kit, it may be the only HVLP unit you will ever need. If your favorite finish can't thinned to the proper range, it will be useless. Noting that an extra needle/tip setup for the "pro" unit costs more than the entire HF kit, I'll probably buy another one if this one bites it. G Users who think they can dump some finish into a gun and their finishing problems are over will be disappointed with any spray rig, at any price. --------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** --------------------------------------------- |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Great post.
B A R R Y wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0600, "Swampbug" wrote: from HF. . .any comments on this one; http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 Why yes... I can comment. First, a quick background. I own that exact unit and an $800 Fuji 4 stage setup and have used both extensively. The HVLP in your link is one of the few items from HF I've been happy buying, ever! Pros on the HF unit: - Cheap - Very easy to use (non-adjustable) - Lightweight - Easy to clean - Good to spectacular results are possible - Viscosity cup included - HVLP systems have zero problems due to water and oil in the air line - No large and expensive compressor needed - Very portable and easy to store - Plastic gun is durable and impervious to finishes Cons: - Short, non-extendable hose - few adjustments (see "easy to use!") - Loud, especially as the turbine is close by with the short hose - Hose sometimes pops off, as it's a friction fit - I haven't seen a source for spare parts - Only one tip setup available (see "easy to use") - Many gun parts not replaceable (see "easy to use" G) - No filter on pickup tube, so filtering the finish before pouring it into the cub is extra important. The HF unit actually works great for anything where the user can control the viscosity of the finish. The user MUST get the finish into a narrow range, as the gun isn't really adjustable, and no other tip/needle setups are available. This ranges from really easy to do with nitrocellulose lacquer and dye stain, to virtually impossible with many waterborne products and latex paints. Most phenolic and polyurethane varnishes, as well as shellac, will fall somewhere in between on the "thinability" scale. For the user who prefers easily thinned products, and is willing to experiment a bit with the included viscosity cup, scrap stock, and a notebook, this is not a problem. Due to the warm air in an HVLP system, different thinners may be required than would be used brushing, to retard drying times. The extra money spent on the high-end unit allows one to spray all kinds of finishes (with extra $75 gun setups), add different feeds (high-capacity pressure pots, gravity, mini-cups), get replacement parts, greatly extend the hose, etc... I still use my HF unit for spraying lighter weight materials like dyes, stains, Olympic Maximum oil, and deck stains. The bottom line: _Once the product is in the proper viscosity range_, I can lay down just as good a finish with the $69 unit, as I can with the expensive system. Both have valuable places in my shop. If you never go outside the capabilities of the HF kit, it may be the only HVLP unit you will ever need. If your favorite finish can't thinned to the proper range, it will be useless. Noting that an extra needle/tip setup for the "pro" unit costs more than the entire HF kit, I'll probably buy another one if this one bites it. G Users who think they can dump some finish into a gun and their finishing problems are over will be disappointed with any spray rig, at any price. --------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** --------------------------------------------- |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:35:47 GMT, "Twayne"
wrote: Great post. B A R R Y wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0600, "Swampbug" wrote: from HF. . .any comments on this one; http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 Why yes... I can comment. First, a quick background. I own that exact unit and an $800 Fuji 4 stage setup and have used both extensively. The HVLP in your link is one of the few items from HF I've been happy buying, ever! Pros on the HF unit: - Cheap - Very easy to use (non-adjustable) - Lightweight - Easy to clean - Good to spectacular results are possible - Viscosity cup included - HVLP systems have zero problems due to water and oil in the air line - No large and expensive compressor needed - Very portable and easy to store - Plastic gun is durable and impervious to finishes Cons: - Short, non-extendable hose - few adjustments (see "easy to use!") - Loud, especially as the turbine is close by with the short hose - Hose sometimes pops off, as it's a friction fit - I haven't seen a source for spare parts - Only one tip setup available (see "easy to use") - Many gun parts not replaceable (see "easy to use" G) - No filter on pickup tube, so filtering the finish before pouring it into the cub is extra important. The HF unit actually works great for anything where the user can control the viscosity of the finish. The user MUST get the finish into a narrow range, as the gun isn't really adjustable, and no other tip/needle setups are available. This ranges from really easy to do with nitrocellulose lacquer and dye stain, to virtually impossible with many waterborne products and latex paints. Most phenolic and polyurethane varnishes, as well as shellac, will fall somewhere in between on the "thinability" scale. For the user who prefers easily thinned products, and is willing to experiment a bit with the included viscosity cup, scrap stock, and a notebook, this is not a problem. Due to the warm air in an HVLP system, different thinners may be required than would be used brushing, to retard drying times. The extra money spent on the high-end unit allows one to spray all kinds of finishes (with extra $75 gun setups), add different feeds (high-capacity pressure pots, gravity, mini-cups), get replacement parts, greatly extend the hose, etc... I still use my HF unit for spraying lighter weight materials like dyes, stains, Olympic Maximum oil, and deck stains. The bottom line: _Once the product is in the proper viscosity range_, I can lay down just as good a finish with the $69 unit, as I can with the expensive system. Both have valuable places in my shop. If you never go outside the capabilities of the HF kit, it may be the only HVLP unit you will ever need. If your favorite finish can't thinned to the proper range, it will be useless. Noting that an extra needle/tip setup for the "pro" unit costs more than the entire HF kit, I'll probably buy another one if this one bites it. G Users who think they can dump some finish into a gun and their finishing problems are over will be disappointed with any spray rig, at any price. --------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** --------------------------------------------- |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:35:47 GMT, "Twayne"
wrote: Great post. Thanks! |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
WOW! Thanks. . .I will see if I can locate the mag article you alluded to.
-- Swampbug ----------------------- "toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote in message news:7e14cf66814bb@uwe... Swampbug wrote: from HF. . .any comments on this one; http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 Last month's edition of "Fine Woodworking" magazine had an article about HVLP sprayers, although the topic is not new and has been written about extensively. They used to be quite expensive but have considerably come down in price in the last 5 years.From everything I've read, a decent HVLP system can be had for about $200. Inexpensive units, like the HF one you indicated, may be more frustrating then they're worth. Especially if you intend to spray waterborne finishes. Units like this one tend to have an underpowered turbine and low quality spray gun... usually with a tip that's not suitable for waterborne finishes. I'm usually a big fan of inexpensive tools that can be made more useful by "tweaking" them past their short comings. But I've had a fair bit of experience with sprayers (good and bad) and they're not the type of tool that can usually be improved upon. There's many ways to build a project "on the cheap" (hand saw instead of a power saw... chisels and hand planes instead of a router) and a finish can be applied by hand or brush that, with a bit more time and elbow grease, will be satisfactory. Spraying offers many advantages, including speed, but cheap spray equipment can be disappointing... and time consuming. In my humble opinion, you're better off to save up a few more shekels and invest in a unit that will perform better "right out of the box". Cheers -- Message posted via CraftKB.com http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...rking/200801/1 |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Thanks. . .I had not seen that one(1) from HF. I had a Wagner airless and
got tired of cleaning so much for so little for nuthing extra. I thought I would try an HVLP. I don't mind cleaning if the thing at least works. -- Swampbug ----------------------- "Michael Faurot" wrote in message ... Swampbug wrote: from HF. . .any comments on this one; http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 I have a different HVLP unit[1] from Harbor Freight. I'm not a finishing expert and certainly not an expert at spraying finishes. However I can say I've been pleased with the results I've had using my unit. I've used it to spray several types of finishes and some laytex paint. Regarding finishes, I've used my HVLP unit to spray plain shellac and shellac I've tinted with dyes with very good results. I've also use the unit to spray Miniwax's Polyshades product. I've never been able to get the results I wanted with either shellac or Polyshades by brushing or wiping, but when I spray them with the cheap Harbor Freight HVLP unit, I get results I like. [1]: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91772 -- If you want to reply via email, change the obvious words to numbers and remove ".invalid". |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Great post, Barry. We agree on point, but I have a couple of comments 'cuz my
conclusion from your post is that you'd recommend the HF sprayer to this newbie. _Once the product is in the proper viscosity range_, I can lay down just as good a finish with the $69 unit, as I can with the expensive system. With your knowledge and skill level, you could probably lay down a professional finish with a curly stray taped to a turkey baster! Users who think they can dump some finish into a gun and their finishing problems are over will be disappointed with any spray rig, at any price. Right on again. That's one reason why I suggested against the HF turbine system mentioned by the OP and recommended a decent unit at about $200.00. Without extensive experience and knowledge (especially tweaking viscosity and additives to enhance flowability) there's no way a newbie will create an acceptable finish with this cheapo. And as you confirmed, waterborne finishes won't work. Frustration high... satisfaction low! The thing will sit in the corner. Money wasted. I'm all for economy but the more important aspect is value and this unit doesn't have it. Although I regularly use a $4,000.00 arc welder... I can still lay down a good, solid weld with jumper cables and a battery. But I wouldn't recommend that to a beginner. Just one man's opinion, though. I enjoyed you comments. Cheers -- Message posted via http://www.craftkb.com |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:58:47 GMT, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com"
u40139@uwe wrote: With your knowledge and skill level, you could probably lay down a professional finish with a curly stray taped to a turkey baster! The HF HVLP was my first spray rig, except for a Badger airbrush that ran on canned air. All of the knowledge I posted to properly use the cheap HVLP came from the instruction manual included in the box, rec.woodworking, and Jeff Jewitt's books. As a beginner, I felt that the lack of adjustments and needle choices made it easier to learn. Woodcraft and Rockler actually sell the identical tool for $100. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Bonehenge (B A R R Y) wrote:
All of the knowledge I posted to properly use the cheap HVLP came from the instruction manual included in the box, rec.woodworking, and Jeff Jewitt's books. As a beginner, I felt that the lack of adjustments and needle choices made it easier to learn. Woodcraft and Rockler actually sell the identical tool for $100. If you'd said that the instructions alone had taught you the alchemy skills necessary to create a decent finish with a low quality unit, such as this one being discussed, then I'd recommend it too. But that's not the case. I doubt that you studied the chemistry (and physics) of applying finishes before choosing to buy a cheap gun and trying to make it work with your accumulated knowledge. All the information and advice out there, and in Jeweitt's books, recommend buying decent equipment. And if the cheap gun is easily made effective by tweaking the mix, why'd you spend all that cash on the expensive one? Why not buy another... or a couple of the cheapos? You know why. "Cuz better equipment gives better results (and that includes a measure of forgiveness until one's skills develop). It's one thing to be highly skilled and bend an inferior tool to the master's will. It's quite another to recommend an inferior tool just because you can make it work, in spite of having a pro unit, too. That's my last word on this. Cheers -- Message posted via http://www.craftkb.com |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
toolman946 via CraftKB.com wrote:
Bonehenge (B A R R Y) wrote: All of the knowledge I posted to properly use the cheap HVLP came from the instruction manual included in the box, rec.woodworking, and Jeff Jewitt's books. As a beginner, I felt that the lack of adjustments and needle choices made it easier to learn. Woodcraft and Rockler actually sell the identical tool for $100. If you'd said that the instructions alone had taught you the alchemy skills necessary to create a decent finish with a low quality unit, such as this one being discussed, then I'd recommend it too. But that's not the case. I doubt that you studied the chemistry (and physics) of applying finishes before choosing to buy a cheap gun and trying to make it work with your accumulated knowledge. All the information and advice out there, and in Jeweitt's books, recommend buying decent equipment. And if the cheap gun is easily made effective by tweaking the mix, why'd you spend all that cash on the expensive one? Why not buy another... or a couple of the cheapos? You know why. "Cuz better equipment gives better results (and that includes a measure of forgiveness until one's skills develop). It's one thing to be highly skilled and bend an inferior tool to the master's will. It's quite another to recommend an inferior tool just because you can make it work, in spite of having a pro unit, too. That's my last word on this. Cheers Barry, I think he's got a point. From what I've read of your experience, you're right up there. I don't have HVLP, and I will be in the market for one in the future. I've bought cheap products before and paid twice for them. In this argument, I'd lean towards a more forgiving piece of machinery that will give me a decent finish without having to do endless tweaks. -- Tanus This is not really a sig. http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/ |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:16:21 GMT, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com"
u40139@uwe wrote: And if the cheap gun is easily made effective by tweaking the mix, why'd you spend all that cash on the expensive one? Because the cheapie can't spray some of the products I apply with the Fuji. The cheapie dosen't have a long enough hose to spray millwork, and it can't be extended. There's no pressure pot for the cheapie. FWIW, the $200 HVLP can't apply half of the products the that the Fuji can. That's my last word on this. Thanks! |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:29:21 -0500, Tanus wrote:
Barry, I think he's got a point. From what I've read of your experience, you're right up there. I totally agree, but when I bought that unit I wasn't. That sucker GOT me to where I am. G I _still_ use it! I don't have HVLP, and I will be in the market for one in the future. I've bought cheap products before and paid twice for them. In this argument, I'd lean towards a more forgiving piece of machinery that will give me a decent finish without having to do endless tweaks. So would I. However... The HF unit sprays NC lacquer, shellac, and your typical oil based polyurethane GREAT after taking 10 minutes to understand the viscosity cup in the box ! I thought I mentioned that if you use these products, this tool will work. If not, it won't. What I mentioned aren't "tweaks", I was simply forced to thin the finish properly and occasionally use a different thinner. Spray finishing 101! The wrong viscosity and drying time will also cause issues with my Fuji rig, or my Critter, or my Badger airbrush.. . There were NO magic additives. There are NO other "tweaks"! The unit has adjustments for spray pattern and fluid feed. That's it! All of this stuff is mentioned in "Troubleshooting" in Jewitt's and Flexner's books, as well as most every magazine article about spray finishing. I'm going to try full strength Ultrastar this week, as I've never tried it in the HF gun. I'll post my results. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
"toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote in message news:7e28a9c12aed9@uwe... Bonehenge (B A R R Y) wrote: All of the knowledge I posted to properly use the cheap HVLP came from the instruction manual included in the box, rec.woodworking, and Jeff Jewitt's books. As a beginner, I felt that the lack of adjustments and needle choices made it easier to learn. Woodcraft and Rockler actually sell the identical tool for $100. If you'd said that the instructions alone had taught you the alchemy skills necessary to create a decent finish with a low quality unit, such as this one being discussed, then I'd recommend it too. But that's not the case. I doubt that you studied the chemistry (and physics) of applying finishes before choosing to buy a cheap gun and trying to make it work with your accumulated knowledge. All the information and advice out there, and in Jeweitt's books, recommend buying decent equipment. And if the cheap gun is easily made effective by tweaking the mix, why'd you spend all that cash on the expensive one? Why not buy another... or a couple of the cheapos? You know why. "Cuz better equipment gives better results (and that includes a measure of forgiveness until one's skills develop). It's one thing to be highly skilled and bend an inferior tool to the master's will. It's quite another to recommend an inferior tool just because you can make it work, in spite of having a pro unit, too. I usually trim replies more than I trimmed this one. I'm leaving Barry's comments in ahead of yours, because I'm curious to know how you got to the point of your comments, from anything Barry said. I do believe you went off on a rant over something that was never said. -- -Mike- |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
"Tanus" wrote in message ... Barry, I think he's got a point. From what I've read of your experience, you're right up there. I don't have HVLP, and I will be in the market for one in the future. I've bought cheap products before and paid twice for them. In this argument, I'd lean towards a more forgiving piece of machinery that will give me a decent finish without having to do endless tweaks. Nothwithstanding pure junk, you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you believe you can count on the equipment to deliver a decent finish. Granted, experienced painters can turn out good work with lesser equipment, but the inverse is not true. Buying great equipment is not going to make you a good sprayer. Go back and re-read Barry's comments. What he has posted in this thread is dead on. If you don't take the time to learn about viscosity and some of the other basics - and invest in some trial and error, the best equipment in the world is not going to make you a good painter. Those basics apply to the good gear as much as they do to the lesser gear. -- -Mike- |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Mike Marlow wrote:
"Tanus" wrote in message ... Barry, I think he's got a point. From what I've read of your experience, you're right up there. I don't have HVLP, and I will be in the market for one in the future. I've bought cheap products before and paid twice for them. In this argument, I'd lean towards a more forgiving piece of machinery that will give me a decent finish without having to do endless tweaks. Nothwithstanding pure junk, you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you believe you can count on the equipment to deliver a decent finish. Granted, experienced painters can turn out good work with lesser equipment, but the inverse is not true. Buying great equipment is not going to make you a good sprayer. Go back and re-read Barry's comments. What he has posted in this thread is dead on. If you don't take the time to learn about viscosity and some of the other basics - and invest in some trial and error, the best equipment in the world is not going to make you a good painter. Those basics apply to the good gear as much as they do to the lesser gear. I'm not setting myself up for anything of the kind. You can't see anywhere in my post where I said that "you can count on the equipment to deliver a decent finish. " What I said was, I was tired of buying equipment by price alone. With some exceptions, you get what you pay for. And what I implied, and I feel that was pretty clear, was that I was willing to pay more to get higher quality stuff. I've never bought anything in my life without taking it home and experimenting with it. But thanks for the advice. -- Tanus This is not really a sig. http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/ |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
On Jan 13, 12:16*pm, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote:
And if the cheap gun is easily made effective by tweaking the mix, why'd you spend all that cash on the expensive one? Why not buy another... or a couple of the cheapos? Because you buy the better equipment for two reasons: You have the extra $600 to $1000 to put in the machine if you find you need to. Why would you need a "better machine? Flexibility of finish application, a better quality gun, and the ability to purchase other aircaps for the same gun. The second would be reliability. I do not expect to be able to use the HF gun all day and all night as needed, several times a week if needed without any fear of failure. It is a $69 unit. If it fails in the garage while you are spraying a project, it would truly suck. But if your HVLP system failed while you were spraying precat lacquer, that would be a tragedy. My Fuji, with all the aircaps, the extra whip, extra filiters, and a second gun dedicated to spraying dye cost me around $1400. I paid that money for the sake of the Fuji reputation as well as their outstanding product and tech support. You know why. "Cuz better equipment gives better results (and that includes a measure of forgiveness until one's skills develop). Baloney. I have been finishing my own projects on my remodels and repairs for years. I also refinish custom doors, conference tables, etc. A crappy finish is a crappy finish. I have seen HVLP finishes that look like they were put in with a sheetrock texture gun that were put on with a very nice Graco system. I have seen brush finishes that look sprayed (not layed down by me, though). It's one thing to be highly skilled and bend an inferior tool to the master's will. It's quite another to recommend an inferior tool just because you can make it work, in spite of having a pro unit, too. You missed it. Barry never said it was an inferior tool. In fact, he said he liked it enough he would probably buy another if his current machine quit. Read carefully... he and others have said it is a good machine for a lot of finishes, not all finishes. No machine is good out of the box for all finishes without tweaking and adjustment of materials and hardware. The same could be said for my Fuji HVLP or my Graco airless; they won't spray everything without additional aircaps, tips, material modifications, etc. You should know too, that thinning is part of most finishes with HVLP. What the additional stages (or turbine impellors) allow you to do is to shoot less viscuous finishes without thinning. They DO NOT lay down a better finish simply because they have more stages. I don't know the difference, but one of those little HFs has a two stage turbine, and the other has a single stage. I have seen some nice finish work put down with those things by non professionals. And there is nothing wrong with a quality beginner machine. If it winds up being all you need and all you want then you are just that much better off. Robert |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
"Tanus" wrote in message ... I'm not setting myself up for anything of the kind. You can't see anywhere in my post where I said that "you can count on the equipment to deliver a decent finish. " What I said was, I was tired of buying equipment by price alone. With some exceptions, you get what you pay for. And what I implied, and I feel that was pretty clear, was that I was willing to pay more to get higher quality stuff. I've never bought anything in my life without taking it home and experimenting with it. But thanks for the advice. Perhaps I read it wrong, but it was the following comment that inspired my reply. "In this argument, I'd lean towards a more forgiving piece of machinery that will give me a decent finish without having to do endless tweaks." It was indeed clear to me that you're willing to pay for quality. The part of the above statement that caught my eye was that it appeared to imply that the quality equipment will give dramatically better results with less effort. That wouldn't be inherently true. -- -Mike- |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Mike Marlow wrote:
"Tanus" wrote in message ... I'm not setting myself up for anything of the kind. You can't see anywhere in my post where I said that "you can count on the equipment to deliver a decent finish. " What I said was, I was tired of buying equipment by price alone. With some exceptions, you get what you pay for. And what I implied, and I feel that was pretty clear, was that I was willing to pay more to get higher quality stuff. I've never bought anything in my life without taking it home and experimenting with it. But thanks for the advice. Perhaps I read it wrong, but it was the following comment that inspired my reply. "In this argument, I'd lean towards a more forgiving piece of machinery that will give me a decent finish without having to do endless tweaks." It was indeed clear to me that you're willing to pay for quality. The part of the above statement that caught my eye was that it appeared to imply that the quality equipment will give dramatically better results with less effort. That wouldn't be inherently true. Agreed. I t would be. I know where my skill level lies, and I attempt to improve that with a variety of means. Reading, practicing in the shop, gobbling up gems in here, and ensuring that the equipment isn't ambushing me are some of the techniques I use. My post concentrated on equipment and its quality because that was the topic at the time. If only it were true. If premium tools alone could turn us all into Frids. Naw, that wouldn't be any fun either. -- Tanus This is not really a sig. http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/ |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
On Jan 12, 7:02 am, B A R R Y wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0600, "Swampbug" wrote: from HF. . .any comments on this one; http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 Why yes... I can comment. Users who think they can dump some finish into a gun and their finishing problems are over will be disappointed with any spray rig, at any price. GREAT POSTING, Thank you very much. |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Wow, what a back and forth.
From this I got that the HFT Unit is well worth the $69.00 if one regularly uses the three or four products/finishes delineated and follows the directions in the supplied manual with the exception of possibly switching to longer setup thinning agents to compensate for the hotter air produced by the device. After that first credible and responsive post, it seemed we went off on the old "buy the best o not regret" arguments from folks who appeared (for the most part) not to have any personal hands-on experience with the HFT Unit. I am reminded of the old adage suggesting one remain silent and be thought a tool than to speak and remove all doubt. (; |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
As the OP here, I have to agree! I hope all of you will accept my humble but
heartfelt thanks! The conclusion is. . . I will determine which of the two HF units has the two stage turbine and focus on that one. Either way I can neither afford nor justify the around $1000+ machines. So for the apparent differences in the $69/$39 HF and the $200+ CH units, I will go with HF. I luv this group! s -- Swampbug ----------------------- "Hoosierpopi" wrote in message ... On Jan 12, 7:02 am, B A R R Y wrote: On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0600, "Swampbug" wrote: from HF. . .any comments on this one; http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44677 Why yes... I can comment. Users who think they can dump some finish into a gun and their finishing problems are over will be disappointed with any spray rig, at any price. GREAT POSTING, Thank you very much. |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
"Tanus" wrote in message ... Agreed. I t would be. I know where my skill level lies, and I attempt to improve that with a variety of means. Reading, practicing in the shop, gobbling up gems in here, and ensuring that the equipment isn't ambushing me are some of the techniques I use. My post concentrated on equipment and its quality because that was the topic at the time. If only it were true. If premium tools alone could turn us all into Frids. Naw, that wouldn't be any fun either. Ok - so we're all agreed then. I'm so glad I was able to bring peace and accord to this little group. Tanus - you buy this round of beer. Swingman - you grab a few girls, there's a thing gonna be happening here... -- -Mike- |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
"Hoosierpopi" wrote in message ... Wow, what a back and forth. From this I got that the HFT Unit is well worth the $69.00 if one regularly uses the three or four products/finishes delineated and follows the directions in the supplied manual with the exception of possibly switching to longer setup thinning agents to compensate for the hotter air produced by the device. After that first credible and responsive post, it seemed we went off on the old "buy the best o not regret" arguments from folks who appeared (for the most part) not to have any personal hands-on experience with the HFT Unit. I am reminded of the old adage suggesting one remain silent and be thought a tool than to speak and remove all doubt. (; Spoil-sport. Just for that, you buy the second round of beer. -- -Mike- |
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Mike Marlow wrote:
"Hoosierpopi" wrote in message ... Wow, what a back and forth. From this I got that the HFT Unit is well worth the $69.00 if one regularly uses the three or four products/finishes delineated and follows the directions in the supplied manual with the exception of possibly switching to longer setup thinning agents to compensate for the hotter air produced by the device. After that first credible and responsive post, it seemed we went off on the old "buy the best o not regret" arguments from folks who appeared (for the most part) not to have any personal hands-on experience with the HFT Unit. I am reminded of the old adage suggesting one remain silent and be thought a tool than to speak and remove all doubt. (; Spoil-sport. Just for that, you buy the second round of beer. Hehe. He can buy both rounds. I'll see what I can do about helping Swing with the girls. -- Tanus This is not really a sig. http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/ |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
I bought the same sprayer you offered in the link. I picked it up 3
years ago and paid the same for it. It comes with 3 different tips and nozzles. It's a great value and works better than anything else I've tried. I haven't done a spray job yet that I'm disappointed with. I've sprayed everything except shellac (including waterborne finishes). I've had no problems at all getting what I consider to be perfect results. The only issue has been dust and bugs but I made a spray booth to take care of that. You can only change flow and viscosity but that's enough for great results. My brother has an accuspray setup at work that I've borrowed and I can't say it does any better than the cheap HF model. More settings with the Accuspray means more experience required and more variables to screw up. Same thing goes with air brushes. My brother has a single action and a double action brush. I do a lot better with the single action because of fewer settings. Getting viscosity correct is pretty easy. I don't even use the drip cup. I'll use paint as an example. Fill the spray cup about 1/2 way with paint and then add about 1/4 cup of thinning agent. I use flowtrol/penetrol and also use mineral spirits when doing oil based enamel. I use both for reasons I won't get into here. After adding some type of thinner, stir and look at how the paint moves around. You can gauge viscosity this way. It should look about like heavy cream. I also pull out the stir stick and watch the paint stream off. This is also useful (keep a count). After getting the viscosity to where you want it, close the nozzle all the way and then open to a conservative flow. Test on some scrap and look at the droplets. Adjust the flow to get the desired coverage. If the drops are splotchy and you can't resolve by slowing the flow then the paint needs to be thinner. If the paint runs then you've got it too thin. Same goes for any material really. There's a lot more to spraying like distance to the work, temperature and so on but you'll figure that out through use. All turbines put out heat but that can be remedied (if needed) by working in shorter time periods. I've sprayed 20 minutes straight without issues. I've sprayed furniture, siding, interior walls, moulding, metal and even canvas with this sprayer. One other point...you don't need to clean the sprayer after every use. It just depends on how much material vs air is left in the cup. I leave material in it for a couple of weeks at a time. It's a good idea to swirl the cup and squirt out a couple of sprays every other day but that's not even necessary. The only time I had something start to dry in the cup was after 4 weeks. The paint dried to the inside of the cup but was really easy to get off. So from somebody who actually has this sprayer, yes I'd recommend it. Especially for the price. You can find a lot more opinions on this sprayer with a decent google search. |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Hoosierpopi wrote:
I am reminded of the old adage suggesting one remain silent and be thought a tool than to speak and remove all doubt. (; I'm glad that everyone else here is mature enough to respect another's opinion and not suggest that a dissenting voice be silenced. What an a**hole. Grow up! -- Message posted via http://www.craftkb.com |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Thanks for a very informative reply. I will prolly check it out soon. I am
only a few miles from the HF here. -- Swampbug ----------------------- wrote in message ... I bought the same sprayer you offered in the link. I picked it up 3 years ago and paid the same for it. It comes with 3 different tips and nozzles. It's a great value and works better than anything else I've tried. I haven't done a spray job yet that I'm disappointed with. I've sprayed everything except shellac (including waterborne finishes). I've had no problems at all getting what I consider to be perfect results. The only issue has been dust and bugs but I made a spray booth to take care of that. You can only change flow and viscosity but that's enough for great results. My brother has an accuspray setup at work that I've borrowed and I can't say it does any better than the cheap HF model. More settings with the Accuspray means more experience required and more variables to screw up. Same thing goes with air brushes. My brother has a single action and a double action brush. I do a lot better with the single action because of fewer settings. Getting viscosity correct is pretty easy. I don't even use the drip cup. I'll use paint as an example. Fill the spray cup about 1/2 way with paint and then add about 1/4 cup of thinning agent. I use flowtrol/penetrol and also use mineral spirits when doing oil based enamel. I use both for reasons I won't get into here. After adding some type of thinner, stir and look at how the paint moves around. You can gauge viscosity this way. It should look about like heavy cream. I also pull out the stir stick and watch the paint stream off. This is also useful (keep a count). After getting the viscosity to where you want it, close the nozzle all the way and then open to a conservative flow. Test on some scrap and look at the droplets. Adjust the flow to get the desired coverage. If the drops are splotchy and you can't resolve by slowing the flow then the paint needs to be thinner. If the paint runs then you've got it too thin. Same goes for any material really. There's a lot more to spraying like distance to the work, temperature and so on but you'll figure that out through use. All turbines put out heat but that can be remedied (if needed) by working in shorter time periods. I've sprayed 20 minutes straight without issues. I've sprayed furniture, siding, interior walls, moulding, metal and even canvas with this sprayer. One other point...you don't need to clean the sprayer after every use. It just depends on how much material vs air is left in the cup. I leave material in it for a couple of weeks at a time. It's a good idea to swirl the cup and squirt out a couple of sprays every other day but that's not even necessary. The only time I had something start to dry in the cup was after 4 weeks. The paint dried to the inside of the cup but was really easy to get off. So from somebody who actually has this sprayer, yes I'd recommend it. Especially for the price. You can find a lot more opinions on this sprayer with a decent google search. |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
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hvlp
Thanks for a very informative reply. I will prolly check it out soon. I am
only a few miles from the HF here. I hope this posts. . .having news server problems -- Swampbug ----------------------- wrote in message ... I bought the same sprayer you offered in the link. I picked it up 3 years ago and paid the same for it. It comes with 3 different tips and nozzles. It's a great value and works better than anything else I've tried. I haven't done a spray job yet that I'm disappointed with. I've sprayed everything except shellac (including waterborne finishes). I've had no problems at all getting what I consider to be perfect results. The only issue has been dust and bugs but I made a spray booth to take care of that. You can only change flow and viscosity but that's enough for great results. My brother has an accuspray setup at work that I've borrowed and I can't say it does any better than the cheap HF model. More settings with the Accuspray means more experience required and more variables to screw up. Same thing goes with air brushes. My brother has a single action and a double action brush. I do a lot better with the single action because of fewer settings. Getting viscosity correct is pretty easy. I don't even use the drip cup. I'll use paint as an example. Fill the spray cup about 1/2 way with paint and then add about 1/4 cup of thinning agent. I use flowtrol/penetrol and also use mineral spirits when doing oil based enamel. I use both for reasons I won't get into here. After adding some type of thinner, stir and look at how the paint moves around. You can gauge viscosity this way. It should look about like heavy cream. I also pull out the stir stick and watch the paint stream off. This is also useful (keep a count). After getting the viscosity to where you want it, close the nozzle all the way and then open to a conservative flow. Test on some scrap and look at the droplets. Adjust the flow to get the desired coverage. If the drops are splotchy and you can't resolve by slowing the flow then the paint needs to be thinner. If the paint runs then you've got it too thin. Same goes for any material really. There's a lot more to spraying like distance to the work, temperature and so on but you'll figure that out through use. All turbines put out heat but that can be remedied (if needed) by working in shorter time periods. I've sprayed 20 minutes straight without issues. I've sprayed furniture, siding, interior walls, moulding, metal and even canvas with this sprayer. One other point...you don't need to clean the sprayer after every use. It just depends on how much material vs air is left in the cup. I leave material in it for a couple of weeks at a time. It's a good idea to swirl the cup and squirt out a couple of sprays every other day but that's not even necessary. The only time I had something start to dry in the cup was after 4 weeks. The paint dried to the inside of the cup but was really easy to get off. So from somebody who actually has this sprayer, yes I'd recommend it. Especially for the price. You can find a lot more opinions on this sprayer with a decent google search. |
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