English is a little trouble for me .so ,there are maybe some errors in
my writting.
so I hope someone who is kind help me check the syntax error (grammar
mistakes)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Different microstructures and mechanical properties can be developed
in a variety of annealing temperature. An investigation was undertaken
to examine effect of annealing temperature on microstructure and
mechanical of dual phase steel under simulated hot-dipped galvanizing.
The steel (of composition 0.15wt%C 0.1wt%Si 1.7wt%Mn) was obtained at
three different heating temperatures (790$B!n(B, 820$B!n(B, 850$B!n(B) by continuous
annealing experiment thermal simulator. The microstructures were
observed by the optical microscope and transmission electron
microscopy, and the mechanical properties were tested. Under hot-dip
galvanizing condition, the effect of annealing temperature on
microstructure and the relationship of microstructure and mechanical
properties have been investigated. Increasing the annealing
temperature, martensite volume fraction increases, and intergranular
carbide reduces and ferrite intragranular carbide becomes small. When
the annealing temperature is 790$B!n(B, most of martensite distributes
intergranular region. Increasing the annealing temperature,
intragranular island martensite increases. When the annealing
temperature reaches 820$B!n!$(Btwin martensite appears in the room
temperature microstructure. The influence of annealing temperature on
the flow curve is significant. When the annealing temperature is 790$B!n(B,
there is obvious yield point elongation. When the annealing
temperature is 820$B!n(B, yield point elongation disappears. At the same
time, tensile strength fluctuates with the annealing temperature
changes.

I have corrected the document foor you.
Here it is in proper English
------------------

When it comes to purchasing products with the label "Made in China", Caveat
Emptor--let the buyer beware. Generally, consumers equate these three words
with cheap and shoddy products. Now, $B!H(BMade In China$B!I(B also spells
$B!H(BDanger$B!I(B.

The list of defective Chinese goods is long, from pet food containing
melamine to toothpaste tainted with antifreeze, Five types of imported
seafood were found to be laced with chemicals and, although no fatalities or
illnesses have been reported in the U.S. yet, Chinese counterfeit glycerin
found in cough syrup has been linked to more than 100 deaths in Panama.

In the wake of the US stepping up testing of Chinese products, the Chinese
government reports that it closed 180 food plants and discovered 23,000
safety violations. Most disturbing is the amount of defective Chinese goods
that have slipped through US investigators$B!G(B safety nets.

The Regulators
In 2003, leaders in China formed the State Food and Drug Administration but
the agency was riddled with problems, from weak investigative procedures to
corrupt officials. First director Zheng Xiaoyu was convicted of taking
bribes from domestic pharmaceutical companies to approve untested medicine
and was later executed.

The FDA in the United States also has its problems. Lack of funding and
competition with 11 other federal regulatory agencies make it almost
impossible to police our food supply.

Food
China has recently risen to be one of the world$B!G(Bs top agricultural
exporters: in just four years, from 2002 to 2006, FDA-regulated foods
imported from China more than doubled and experts predict the number to
triple by the end of 2007.

Chinese foods are pervasive in most American kitchens; from additives such
as xanthum gum (used as a thickener in dairy products, salad dressings and
most frozen foods including ice cream) to preservatives such as ascorbic
acid (Vitamin C). Most breakfast cereals are made in China.

Companies such as Kellog and General Mills are just now beginning to test
additives such as wheat in their products. (Menu Foods pet recall found
melamine in wheat gluten?a discovery that sounded the alarm bells to
potential dangers in human food supply.) Recently, Veggie Booty was recalled
after an outbreak of salmonella was traced back to the snack food. According
to the US maker, salmonella was found in a spice imported from China that
was used to season the snack food.

Toys
China produces 80 percent of the world$B!G(Bs toys, some of which contain lead
paint. Soon after Target recalled about 200,000 Kool Toyz action figures
because of sharp edges and lead contamination, Toys $B!H(BR$B!I(B Us discovered that
the same Chinese company that manufactured those toys also made the Elite
Operations figures in its stores. More recently, Mattel Inc., the world$B!G(Bs
largest toymaker, recalled 1.5 million China-made Sesame Street, Dora the
Explorer and other children$B!G(Bs products as they might contain $B!H(Bexcessive
levels$B!I(B of lead. Eighty-one other types of Fisher-Price branded toys sold
in US stores since May 2007 are included in the massive recall.

And lead paint isn$B!G(Bt restricted to toys: The U.S. Consumer Product Safety
Commission recalled children$B!G(Bs jewelry from China that potentially could
cause lead poisoning.

Tires
In June 2007, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration
ordered a recall of 450,000 defective radial tires for pickup trucks, sport
utility vehicles and vans. A New Jersey importer notified officials that its
Chinese manufacturer had stopped including gum strips, a safety feature that
holds the tire together and prevents it from separating.

(Tread separation led to the recall of millions of Firestone tires in 2000;
this particular tire failure was linked to an increased risk of rollover of
light trucks and SUV's.)

The faulty tires are believed to have caused a car accident in Pennsylvania
in August of 2006 that killed two people. A lawsuit filed by the families
alleges the accident happened because the tire lacked the gum strip. The
lawsuit alleges the Chinese company removed the critical gum strip after the
initial test tires were manufactured. Consumer advocates said this case
exposes significant loopholes in the system that regulates products in the
United States.

Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) has called for a full investigation into
the importation of the defective tires.

The New Jersey tire importer sued the manufacturer of the tires, Hangzhou
Zhongce Rubber, in a New Jersey court. The Hague Convention is a policy
which allows foreign corporations to be sued in different countries. Tire
manufacturer Hangzhou Zhongce Rubber has been served under the Hague
convention.

Other Lawsuits
As well, a number of lawsuits have been filed against importers of Chinese
products. Menu Foods, the Ontario pet food maker whose Chinese-sourced
product contained melamine, faces more than 100 class action lawsuits. A
proposed class action has been filed against the distributor of various
Thomas & Friends? wooden railway toys.

As long as companies continue to import Chinese goods, it is inevitable that
more class actions will be filed.


Chinese Defective Products Articles
China Recall: Kids II Play Blocks with Excessive Lead Paint
It is a well known fact that kids will put things in their mouths - that's
what kids do. And to think that our kids are putting defective products into
their mouths, and toys containing lead paint, is cause for certain alarm.
Once again, news that toys made in China are being recalled for a lead paint
hazard. This time, Kids II is recalling Baby Einstein Color Blocks due to
excessive levels of lead paint.

China Recall: KB Toys with Excessive Lead Paint
In spite of efforts by Chinese authorities, and importers of Chinese
products to keep a watchful eye for the presence of defective products, the
parade of defective products just keeps on coming.

Today$B!G(Bs Recall from China: The Kolcraft Play Yard
The Runaway Recall Train Pulls in from China Yet Again: More Recalled Toys
Tainted Toys for Tots: It$B!G(Bs All About Cutting Corners
Defective Tires: We must send a message to China
Chinese Defective Products: Deadly Consequences both in the US and China



Chinese Defective Products in the News
AUG-30-07: The CPSC, in cooperation with Toys "R" Us Inc., announced a
voluntary recall of about 27,000 Imaginarium Wooden Coloring Cases. The
printed ink on the outer packaging of the wood case contains lead. Also,
some of the black watercolor paint contains excessive levels of lead, which
violates the federal lead paint standard. The recall involves the
Imaginarium brand 213 Piece Wooden Coloring Case which includes crayons,
pastels, colored pencils, fiber pens, paintbrush, pencil, water colors,
palette, white paint, ruler and pencil sharpener in a light tan wooden
carrying case. They were sold by Toys "R" Us stores nationwide and
toysrus.com from October 2006 through August 2007. [CPSC: TOYS R US LEAD]

AUG-21-07: Wal-Mart Stores Inc. quietly stopped selling two brands of dog
treats in July, after customers voiced concerns that the Chinese products
may have caused their pets to fall ill, but no recall has been announced.
The world's largest retailer started pulling Chicken Jerky Strips from
Import-Pingyang Pet Product Co. and Chicken Jerky from Shanghai Bestro
Trading on July 26. Wal-Mart also placed a computerized block on all cash
registers to prevent workers from selling the products. Wal-Mart's action
follows a massive pet food recall in March, when retailers began pulling
products made in China that included the chemical melamine ? a contaminant
that's a byproduct of several pesticides. Philadelphia television station
WPVI reported last week that a woman claimed her 2-year-old Chihuahua died
after eating Bestro Chicken Jerky Strips. The station reported that an
autopsy found the dog died of an infection caused by toxic bacteria. [FOX
NEWS: WALMART DOG TREATS]

AUG-19-07: Chinese-made products including toothpaste, seafood and pet food
have caused controversy about how safe they are. [COURIER-JOURNAL: CHINESE
DEFECTIVE PRODUCT]

On Dec 13, 2:05 pm, "Stupendous Man" wrote:
I have corrected the document foor you.
Here it is in proper English
------------------

When it comes to purchasing products with the label "Made in China", Caveat
Emptor--let the buyer beware. Generally, consumers equate these three words
with cheap and shoddy products. Now, "Made In China" also spells
"Danger".

Much copy and paste verbage deleted.

Here is someone who obviously is trying to learn and improve their
English, and all you do is dredge up some stuff that is irrelavant.
My opinion of you is less than Stupendous.


Dan

On Dec 13, 10:11 am, " wrote:


Here is someone who obviously is trying to learn and improve their (sic)
English, and all you do is dredge up some stuff that is irrelavant. (sic)
My opinion of you is less than Stupendous.

Likewise.

On Dec 13, 10:05 pm, "Stupendous Man" wrote:
I have corrected the document foor you.
Here it is in proper English
------------------

When it comes to purchasing products with the label "Made in China", Caveat
Emptor--let the buyer beware. Generally, consumers equate these three words
with cheap and shoddy products. Now, "Made In China" also spells
"Danger".

as a man on the earth, I'm sorry for some misfortunes caused by some
"Made in China".
every consumer including me abhors shoddy products.
so what we can do is that never consume shoddy proucts whether it
"Made in China" or "Made in Moon"



AS a man in the street, I'm glad to know various comments about China
which come from the rest of world. Let me know what they are
thinking about China.

as a chinese ,I'm working hard to change : what i can change.


At last i hope China bring chance and benefit instead of harm to you,
to me, to the world.

by the way,
Merry Christmas to everyone
be carefule when you consume whether it "Made in China" or "Made in
Moon"

On Dec 13, 10:05 pm, "Stupendous Man" wrote:
I have corrected the document foor you.
Here it is in proper English
------------------

When it comes to purchasing products with the label "Made in China", Caveat
Emptor--let the buyer beware. Generally, consumers equate these three words
with cheap and shoddy products. Now, "Made In China" also spells
"Danger".

as a man on the earth, I'm sorry for some misfortunes caused by some
"Made in China".
every consumer including me abhors shoddy products.
so what we can do is that never consume shoddy proucts whether it
"Made in China" or "Made in Moon"



AS a man in the street, I'm glad to know various comments about China
which come from the rest of world. Let me know what they are
thinking about China.

as a chinese ,I'm working hard to change : what i can change.


At last i hope China bring chance and benefit instead of harm to you,
to me, to the world.

by the way,
Merry Christmas to everyone
be carefule when you consume whether it "Made in China" or "Made in
Moon"

wrote AS a man in the street, I'm glad to know
various comments about China
which come from the rest of world. Let me know what they are
thinking about China.


As another "man on the street" (actually a dirt road in the forest), I
apologise for my flippant response. Many other discussion groups that I
frequent have been hit hard recently by spammers from China, and I assumed
that you were one of them.
I am the kind of guy who goes 35 miles into town to try to find suitable
parts for projects that i am doing, and am often dismayed to find that all
hardware stores carry exactly the same, poorly made product, usually from
China. I end up making my own, or buying it online from a quality supplier
at a higher price. I do hope that Chiunes products increase in quality.
Perhaps I will then willingly buy Chinese goods.


as a chinese ,I'm working hard to change : what i can change.

That's the measure of a man.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:46:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:05 pm, "Stupendous Man" wrote:
I have corrected the document foor you.
Here it is in proper English
------------------

When it comes to purchasing products with the label "Made in China", Caveat
Emptor--let the buyer beware. Generally, consumers equate these three words
with cheap and shoddy products. Now, "Made In China" also spells
"Danger".

as a man on the earth, I'm sorry for some misfortunes caused by some
"Made in China".
every consumer including me abhors shoddy products.

Oh, bull****. http://www.productrecallwatch.com/
enter "China" into the search box. Your country has put poison in our
drugs, our toothpaste, our cosmetics, our pet food, and our childrens
toys. Lead paint seems to be a large part of your gross national
product. And a month ago, you sold me a toy which metabolizes into a
coma-inducing drug (Aqua-dots), because the adhesive that does so was a
few pennies per batch cheaper than the one that was specified.

Once, is an accident. Twice, coincidence. 38 times a month, is enemy
action. I urge everyone to talk to their congressmen and tell them to
revoke China's "most favored trade nation" status. Friends like China,
we don't need.

so what we can do is that never consume shoddy proucts whether it
"Made in China" or "Made in Moon"

The moon's manufacturers (what drugs are YOU on?) haven't tried to
poison my kids or my pets so far. China has, repeatedly.

AS a man in the street, I'm glad to know various comments about China
which come from the rest of world. Let me know what they are
thinking about China.
as a chinese ,I'm working hard to change : what i can change.

Yeah right.

by the way,
Merry Christmas to everyone

Oh, **** off, you lying hypocrite.

be carefule when you consume whether it "Made in China" or "Made in
Moon"

No. Obey the ****ing laws in the country you're selling stuff to.

And yes, I know I'm answering either a troll or an idiot.

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:46:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:05 pm, "Stupendous Man" wrote:
I have corrected the document foor you.
Here it is in proper English
------------------

When it comes to purchasing products with the label "Made in China", Caveat
Emptor--let the buyer beware. Generally, consumers equate these three words
with cheap and shoddy products. Now, "Made In China" also spells
"Danger".
as a man on the earth, I'm sorry for some misfortunes caused by some
"Made in China".
every consumer including me abhors shoddy products.

Oh, bull****. http://www.productrecallwatch.com/
enter "China" into the search box. Your country has put poison in our
drugs, our toothpaste, our cosmetics, our pet food, and our childrens
toys. Lead paint seems to be a large part of your gross national
product. And a month ago, you sold me a toy which metabolizes into a
coma-inducing drug (Aqua-dots), because the adhesive that does so was a
few pennies per batch cheaper than the one that was specified.

Once, is an accident. Twice, coincidence. 38 times a month, is enemy
action. I urge everyone to talk to their congressmen and tell them to
revoke China's "most favored trade nation" status. Friends like China,
we don't need.

so what we can do is that never consume shoddy proucts whether it
"Made in China" or "Made in Moon"

The moon's manufacturers (what drugs are YOU on?) haven't tried to
poison my kids or my pets so far. China has, repeatedly.

AS a man in the street, I'm glad to know various comments about China
which come from the rest of world. Let me know what they are
thinking about China.
as a chinese ,I'm working hard to change : what i can change.

Yeah right.

by the way,
Merry Christmas to everyone

Oh, **** off, you lying hypocrite.

be carefule when you consume whether it "Made in China" or "Made in
Moon"

No. Obey the ****ing laws in the country you're selling stuff to.

And yes, I know I'm answering either a troll or an idiot.


It would appear that so am I.

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:33:37 -0500, Tanus wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Once, is an accident. Twice, coincidence. 38 times a month, is enemy
action. I urge everyone to talk to their congressmen and tell them to
revoke China's "most favored trade nation" status. Friends like China,
we don't need.

And yes, I know I'm answering either a troll or an idiot.

It would appear that so am I.

Really? Which of my specific points do you feel I am either wrong, or
insincere about?

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:46:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:05 pm, "Stupendous Man" wrote:
I have corrected the document foor you.
Here it is in proper English
------------------


I'm responding to a later post with this
one. In it you asked "Really? Which of
my specific points do you feel I am
either wrong, or
insincere about?"
I don't feel you were insincere in
anything you said.
But what irked me was some of the
comments you made painted with a wide
brush.

When it comes to purchasing products with the label "Made in China", Caveat
Emptor--let the buyer beware. Generally, consumers equate these three words
with cheap and shoddy products. Now, "Made In China" also spells
"Danger".
as a man on the earth, I'm sorry for some misfortunes caused by some
"Made in China".
every consumer including me abhors shoddy products.

Oh, bull****. http://www.productrecallwatch.com/
enter "China" into the search box. Your country has put poison in our
drugs, our toothpaste, our cosmetics, our pet food, and our childrens
toys.

And your country has been responsible
for contracting those offshore
manufacturers. Your country's retailers
are supposedly responsible for QC, and
dropped the ball. China's manufacturing
industry may be putting out lousy
products, but who's buying them?

Lead paint seems to be a large part of
your gross national
product. And a month ago, you sold me

He sold you nothing. China sold you
nothing. You bought that in your country
from one of your own retailers. Those
are the guys mentioned above with the QC
issues.

a toy which metabolizes into a
coma-inducing drug (Aqua-dots), because the adhesive that does so was a
few pennies per batch cheaper than the one that was specified.

Once, is an accident. Twice, coincidence. 38 times a month, is enemy
action.

If that's truly the case, then identify
the enemy. Hint: it's not China.

I urge everyone to talk to their
congressmen and tell them to
revoke China's "most favored trade nation" status. Friends like China,
we don't need.

so what we can do is that never consume shoddy proucts whether it
"Made in China" or "Made in Moon"

The moon's manufacturers (what drugs are YOU on?) haven't tried to
poison my kids or my pets so far. China has, repeatedly.

AS a man in the street, I'm glad to know various comments about China
which come from the rest of world. Let me know what they are
thinking about China.
as a chinese ,I'm working hard to change : what i can change.

Yeah right.

by the way,
Merry Christmas to everyone

Oh, **** off, you lying hypocrite.

My original post responded to you saying
that "And yes, I know I'm answering
either a troll or an idiot." I said it
looked like I was too. The above comment
about telling him to **** off and
calling him a hypocrite pretty well
drives it home.

be carefule when you consume whether it "Made in China" or "Made in
Moon"

No. Obey the ****ing laws in the country you're selling stuff to.

And yes, I know I'm answering either a troll or an idiot.


Have a nice Christmas.

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:44:39 -0500, Tanus wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Oh, bull****. http://www.productrecallwatch.com/
enter "China" into the search box. Your country has put poison in our
drugs, our toothpaste, our cosmetics, our pet food, and our childrens
toys.

And your country has been responsible
for contracting those offshore
manufacturers.

Yes. We give you specs, and you substitute lead paint where it's not
specified, lead paint where it's not specified, and toxins in the pet
food to boost the apparent protein count in the wheat gluten - except
that it kills the pets. Oh, and the antifreeze in the toothpaste, that
was a nice touch.

Your country's retailers
are supposedly responsible for QC, and
dropped the ball.

Bull****. That crap isn't supposed to be in the products in the first
place. And yet China-apologists like you will deflect the blame from
anyone but the ones making the intentional decision to put substances in
the products which are known to be harmful and illegal.

Lead paint seems to be a large part of
your gross national
product. And a month ago, you sold me

He sold you nothing. China sold you
nothing. You bought that in your country
from one of your own retailers. Those
are the guys mentioned above with the QC
issues.

A Chinese manufacturer deviated from the spec given to them. YES, hell
yes, I think the importer should be held liable for the toxic products.
If you had gone to productrecallwatch.com and read any of the commentary
I've written there, you'd find that blisteringly clear. BUT, if China
wasn't putting the crap into the products in the first place, we
wouldn't have this problem, would we. They share blame, but the only
ones we can directly do anything about are the importers.

a toy which metabolizes into a
coma-inducing drug (Aqua-dots), because the adhesive that does so was a
few pennies per batch cheaper than the one that was specified.

Once, is an accident. Twice, coincidence. 38 times a month, is enemy
action.

If that's truly the case, then identify
the enemy. Hint: it's not China.

And who do you pretend it is? Every retailer that sells it? No. The
corner store should not be burdoned with testing products. The
importers? Somewhat. They bring it in to the country, and should be
responsible to make sure it works and is safe. The manufacturers?
Absolutely.

I urge everyone to talk to their
congressmen and tell them to
revoke China's "most favored trade nation" status. Friends like China,
we don't need.

My original post responded to you saying
that "And yes, I know I'm answering
either a troll or an idiot." I said it
looked like I was too. The above comment
about telling him to **** off and
calling him a hypocrite pretty well
drives it home.

Oh, disagreement and disrespect of someone who is defending a country
who is actively trying to kill my kids and pets is somehow trolling or
idiocy now? I see. You have a unique perspective.

Have a nice Christmas.

I intend to. What does that have to do with toxic Chinese imports,
exactly?

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:44:39 -0500, Tanus wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Oh, bull****. http://www.productrecallwatch.com/
enter "China" into the search box. Your country has put poison in our
drugs, our toothpaste, our cosmetics, our pet food, and our childrens
toys.

And your country has been responsible
for contracting those offshore
manufacturers.

Yes. We give you specs, and you substitute lead paint where it's not
specified, lead paint where it's not specified, and toxins in the pet
food to boost the apparent protein count in the wheat gluten - except
that it kills the pets. Oh, and the antifreeze in the toothpaste, that
was a nice touch.


You gave me nothing. I don't manufacture
the stuff, and I don't import it. Take
me out of this equation.

Your country's retailers
are supposedly responsible for QC, and
dropped the ball.

Bull****. That crap isn't supposed to be in the products in the first
place. And yet China-apologists like you will deflect the blame from
anyone but the ones making the intentional decision to put substances in
the products which are known to be harmful and illegal.


I don't know where you get the idea that
I'm a China-apologist. I haven't taken
them off the hook whatsoever. What I
have said is own up to your
responsibility. Retailers like Mattel
knew damned well they were using
manufacturing companies that would cut
corners if they could. And they did.

Lead paint seems to be a large part of
your gross national
product. And a month ago, you sold me

He sold you nothing. China sold you
nothing. You bought that in your country
from one of your own retailers. Those
are the guys mentioned above with the QC
issues.

A Chinese manufacturer deviated from the spec given to them. YES, hell
yes, I think the importer should be held liable for the toxic products.
If you had gone to productrecallwatch.com and read any of the commentary
I've written there, you'd find that blisteringly clear. BUT, if China
wasn't putting the crap into the products in the first place, we
wouldn't have this problem, would we. They share blame, but the only
ones we can directly do anything about are the importers.

So can the retailers, but I agree. It
belongs more in the lap of the importers.

a toy which metabolizes into a
coma-inducing drug (Aqua-dots), because the adhesive that does so was a
few pennies per batch cheaper than the one that was specified.

Once, is an accident. Twice, coincidence. 38 times a month, is enemy
action.

If that's truly the case, then identify
the enemy. Hint: it's not China.

And who do you pretend it is? Every retailer that sells it? No. The
corner store should not be burdoned with testing products.

Now you're just being petty. You know as
well as I do I'm not talking about
corner stores.

The
importers? Somewhat. They bring it in to the country, and should be
responsible to make sure it works and is safe. The manufacturers?
Absolutely.

I urge everyone to talk to their
congressmen and tell them to
revoke China's "most favored trade nation" status. Friends like China,
we don't need.

My original post responded to you saying
that "And yes, I know I'm answering
either a troll or an idiot." I said it
looked like I was too. The above comment
about telling him to **** off and
calling him a hypocrite pretty well
drives it home.

Oh, disagreement and disrespect of someone who is defending a country
who is actively trying to kill my kids and pets is somehow trolling or
idiocy now? I see. You have a unique perspective.

No, my perspective is just different
from yours. My suspicion is that anyone
who has that has a "unique" perspective
to you

Have a nice Christmas.

I intend to. What does that have to do with toxic Chinese imports,
exactly?

One trick pony, aren't you?



--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:46:42 -0500, Tanus wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Yes. We give you specs, and you substitute lead paint where it's not
specified, lead paint where it's not specified, and toxins in the pet
food to boost the apparent protein count in the wheat gluten - except
that it kills the pets. Oh, and the antifreeze in the toothpaste, that
was a nice touch.

You gave me nothing. I don't manufacture
the stuff, and I don't import it. Take
me out of this equation.

And yet, you inject yourself INTO the equation as an apologist for the
criminals in question. Your choice, not mine. You want to defend them,
you take the criticism of them.

Bull****. That crap isn't supposed to be in the products in the first
place. And yet China-apologists like you will deflect the blame from
anyone but the ones making the intentional decision to put substances in
the products which are known to be harmful and illegal.

I don't know where you get the idea that
I'm a China-apologist. I haven't taken
them off the hook whatsoever. What I
have said is own up to your
responsibility.

They're given a spec. They arbitrarily decide to deviate from the spec
and use something cheaper and toxic. And then YOU defend them.

Retailers like Mattel
knew damned well they were using
manufacturing companies that would cut
corners if they could. And they did.

Prove it. And prosecute Mattel.

A Chinese manufacturer deviated from the spec given to them. YES, hell
yes, I think the importer should be held liable for the toxic products.
If you had gone to productrecallwatch.com and read any of the commentary
I've written there, you'd find that blisteringly clear. BUT, if China
wasn't putting the crap into the products in the first place, we
wouldn't have this problem, would we. They share blame, but the only
ones we can directly do anything about are the importers.

So can the retailers, but I agree. It
belongs more in the lap of the importers.

And yet you defend those who substitute safe chemicals for poison.
Interseting.

And who do you pretend it is? Every retailer that sells it? No. The
corner store should not be burdoned with testing products.

Now you're just being petty. You know as
well as I do I'm not talking about
corner stores.

Do I? Let's be specific. The manufacturer is ultimately responsible.
But, they're in a different country with a suspect (to say the least)
legal and political system. So in the US, our only realistic recourse
is to punish the importers. This doesn't change the fact that China
continues to exploit the ill-advised "most favored trade nation"
status. Lets revoke that until they earn our trust.

The
importers? Somewhat. They bring it in to the country, and should be
responsible to make sure it works and is safe. The manufacturers?
Absolutely.

No, my perspective is just different
from yours. My suspicion is that anyone
who has that has a "unique" perspective
to you

Lets see. So you want to defend China for shipping toxic products to
us. Why, exactly, have you chosen this specific cause as yours?

I intend to. What does that have to do with toxic Chinese imports,
exactly?

One trick pony, aren't you?

It's called "sticking to the topic of the post". You should try it.
Answer the question.

snip
Lets see. So you want to defend China for shipping toxic products to
us. Why, exactly, have you chosen this specific cause as yours?

I intend to. What does that have to do with toxic Chinese imports,
exactly?
One trick pony, aren't you?

It's called "sticking to the topic of the post". You should try it.
Answer the question.


Usenet has quite a few users who twist
and turn people's words, and never back
down. You're one of them. I'm not one to
argue repeatedly about what I didn't
say. I state it once, and if the
accusation comes back to me, I just move
on. Which is what I"m doing now. See ya.

However, something to consider is that
you don't win an argument by re-hashing
drivel. You just **** other people off
who might otherwise have given you
credence.

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:22:20 -0500, Tanus wrote:
snip
(I wrote, but Tanus doesn't have the ability to quote me properly
saying

Lets see. So you want to defend China for shipping toxic products to
us. Why, exactly, have you chosen this specific cause as yours?
It's called "sticking to the topic of the post". You should try it.
Answer the question.

Usenet has quite a few users who twist
and turn people's words, and never back
down. You're one of them. I'm not one to
argue repeatedly about what I didn't
say. I state it once, and if the
accusation comes back to me, I just move
on. Which is what I"m doing now. See ya.

Backpedal noted. You pretend to defend chinese imported toxins until
confronted with facts. Thanks for verifying that.

However, something to consider is that
you don't win an argument by re-hashing
drivel. You just **** other people off
who might otherwise have given you
credence.

OK, so tell me specifically which recalls on productrecallwatch.com
aren't accurate. Because, if they're wrong, it's not the fault of the
messenger (me) but, the fault of the reporting entities (various). Show
your work. Or just admit that you got nothing, which anyone who keeps
current on the facts will know.

If only your point of view had ANY validity. And yet it doesn't. And
yet you defend it. Why do you try to help people trying to kill me, my
kids, and my pets?

On 16 Dec 2007 00:28:31 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:46:42 -0500, Tanus wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Yes. We give you specs, and you substitute lead paint where it's not
specified, lead paint where it's not specified, and toxins in the pet
food to boost the apparent protein count in the wheat gluten - except
that it kills the pets. Oh, and the antifreeze in the toothpaste, that
was a nice touch.

Not to start a war but you state that "we give you specs" how did you
determine the exact specs that the Chinese were given? Is this
information available on the Web?

I ask this because my experience in dealing with the Chinese is that
they do meet the specs - right to the letter. If your spec is "paint
it red" then they paint it red with the cheapest paint that they can
locate. If you say "it must pass a protein check using the XYZ test"
then it will.

But if you say "paint it red" using a paint with the following
constituents - AND NOT CONTAINING ANY OF THE SUBSTANCES ON THE
ATTACHED HAZARDOUS CONTENTS LIST" then that is exactly what you will
get, but it may very well cost you more money.

Since this is a metal working group let me give you another example:
All over Asia are machine shops (what we used to call job shops) and
every one is equipped with Chinese machines. Lathes, milling machines,
grinders, you name it. And every one of these machines is equal in
quality to the American made machinery that I ran for many years, but
you don't see this machinery in the U.S. because nobody wants to buy
it - it costs too much. What everyone wants is the cheap Chinese junk
from Harbor Freight. So that is what is what the Chinese sell to
Harbor Freight - cheap junk that you can't find in most Asian
countries because no professional shop here will buy it.

In short, "you want cheap - we got cheap"

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On 2007-12-16, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Since this is a metal working group let me give you another example:
All over Asia are machine shops (what we used to call job shops) and
every one is equipped with Chinese machines. Lathes, milling machines,
grinders, you name it. And every one of these machines is equal in
quality to the American made machinery that I ran for many years, but
you don't see this machinery in the U.S. because nobody wants to buy
it - it costs too much. What everyone wants is the cheap Chinese junk
from Harbor Freight. So that is what is what the Chinese sell to
Harbor Freight - cheap junk that you can't find in most Asian
countries because no professional shop here will buy it.

Bruce, you said something very interesting and something that makes
sense to me.

What I do want to know is, how come those quality chinese goods are
not seen in the US, as much as they deserve to be seen.

I mean, if I could buy a quality new machine for, say, 60% of what a
new US made machine costs, I personally would do it. (assuming that
support, etc is also available).

i

Ignoramus8988 wrote:
On 2007-12-16, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

Since this is a metal working group let me give you another example:
All over Asia are machine shops (what we used to call job shops) and
every one is equipped with Chinese machines. Lathes, milling machines,
grinders, you name it. And every one of these machines is equal in
quality to the American made machinery that I ran for many years, but
you don't see this machinery in the U.S. because nobody wants to buy
it - it costs too much. What everyone wants is the cheap Chinese junk
from Harbor Freight. So that is what is what the Chinese sell to
Harbor Freight - cheap junk that you can't find in most Asian
countries because no professional shop here will buy it.


Bruce, you said something very interesting and something that makes
sense to me.

What I do want to know is, how come those quality chinese goods are
not seen in the US, as much as they deserve to be seen.

I mean, if I could buy a quality new machine for, say, 60% of what a
new US made machine costs, I personally would do it. (assuming that
support, etc is also available).

i

I believe he already answered that, Ig.

Very well too.



Richard

On 16 Dec 2007 00:28:31 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:


I don't know where you get the idea that
I'm a China-apologist. I haven't taken
them off the hook whatsoever. What I
have said is own up to your
responsibility.

They're given a spec. They arbitrarily decide to deviate from the spec
and use something cheaper and toxic. And then YOU defend them.

Im fascinated by the fact the buffoon thinks that the end user or
retailer is supposed to act as the QA department of a manufacturer
3500 miles away, and with 3 degrees of separation.

Thats idiocy.

Gunner

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 23:53:23 -0600, Ignoramus8988
wrote:

On 2007-12-16, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Since this is a metal working group let me give you another example:
All over Asia are machine shops (what we used to call job shops) and
every one is equipped with Chinese machines. Lathes, milling machines,
grinders, you name it. And every one of these machines is equal in
quality to the American made machinery that I ran for many years, but
you don't see this machinery in the U.S. because nobody wants to buy
it - it costs too much. What everyone wants is the cheap Chinese junk
from Harbor Freight. So that is what is what the Chinese sell to
Harbor Freight - cheap junk that you can't find in most Asian
countries because no professional shop here will buy it.

Bruce, you said something very interesting and something that makes
sense to me.

What I do want to know is, how come those quality chinese goods are
not seen in the US, as much as they deserve to be seen.

I mean, if I could buy a quality new machine for, say, 60% of what a
new US made machine costs, I personally would do it. (assuming that
support, etc is also available).

i
Frankly I don't know, but I can say that after perusing the pages of
Harbor Freight I've seen none of these types of machines offered for
sale here. The multi function mini machines are available but rare. I
believe they are of European manufacture.

Do a search on Alibaba and see what is available, I think you will
find it enlightening.

Regarding support I can't comment on what is available in the U.S. I
suspect that it is a factor of who is the agent/supplier, but In Asia
all machinery comes with guarantees and at least parts support.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:48:06 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On 16 Dec 2007 00:28:31 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Yes. We give you specs, and you substitute lead paint where it's not
specified, lead paint where it's not specified, and toxins in the pet
food to boost the apparent protein count in the wheat gluten - except
that it kills the pets. Oh, and the antifreeze in the toothpaste, that
was a nice touch.

Not to start a war but you state that "we give you specs" how did you
determine the exact specs that the Chinese were given? Is this
information available on the Web?

Of course. The specific chemicals spec'd for aqua-dots, for instance,
and the chemical substituted, have been widely published. And each of
the toy manufacturers has _claimed_ that lead paint was substituted for
the specified paint, even to the point where the initial batches were
made to spec, passed QA, and then the cheaper lead paint was substituted
for later production.

Want links?

I ask this because my experience in dealing with the Chinese is that
they do meet the specs - right to the letter. If your spec is "paint
it red" then they paint it red with the cheapest paint that they can
locate. If you say "it must pass a protein check using the XYZ test"
then it will.

Eve if they have to put phenols in a food product, which will kill
whatever eats it?

But if you say "paint it red" using a paint with the following
constituents - AND NOT CONTAINING ANY OF THE SUBSTANCES ON THE
ATTACHED HAZARDOUS CONTENTS LIST" then that is exactly what you will
get, but it may very well cost you more money.

Yes, in theory, but in the case of this example, the spec was not
followed. I'm kind of surprised that people who haven't followed the
issue are springing to the defense of China on this one because, it's
really not a supportable point of view.

Since this is a metal working group let me give you another example:
All over Asia are machine shops (what we used to call job shops) and
every one is equipped with Chinese machines. Lathes, milling machines,
grinders, you name it. And every one of these machines is equal in
quality to the American made machinery that I ran for many years, but
you don't see this machinery in the U.S. because nobody wants to buy
it - it costs too much. What everyone wants is the cheap Chinese junk
from Harbor Freight. So that is what is what the Chinese sell to
Harbor Freight - cheap junk that you can't find in most Asian
countries because no professional shop here will buy it.

In short, "you want cheap - we got cheap"

Cheap is fine, if that's the spec. If the spec is "Use this polymer
which doesn't metabolize into a drug that will induce coma if eaten",
and they use one that does, because it's cheaper (yes I can provide
cites), then THAT is a problem. And that's what they did in this case.
And continue to do at every opportunity.

THAT, is the problem.

On Dec 16, 2:19 am, Gunner wrote:
Im fascinated by the fact the buffoon thinks that the end user or
retailer is supposed to act as the QA department of a manufacturer
3500 miles away, and with 3 degrees of separation.

Thats idiocy.
As a former QC tech for a US factory, one of my tasks was to inspect
incoming shipments using random samples to determine if they did
indeed meet specifications. The shipments came from more than 3500
miles away, with many degrees of separation. One of the things we
checked was chemical content of the paint. (More specifically, we
checked for certain banned compounds and elements.)

That's not idiocy. It's responsible standard operating procedure. Or
at least it was, fifteen years ago.

Are you telling me that factories today aren't inspecting their parts
any more?

" wrote in news:f3bb8ec1-29c4-41cb-
:

On Dec 16, 2:19 am, Gunner wrote:
Im fascinated by the fact the buffoon thinks that the end user or
retailer is supposed to act as the QA department of a manufacturer
3500 miles away, and with 3 degrees of separation.

Thats idiocy.
As a former QC tech for a US factory, one of my tasks was to inspect
incoming shipments using random samples to determine if they did
indeed meet specifications. The shipments came from more than 3500
miles away, with many degrees of separation. One of the things we
checked was chemical content of the paint. (More specifically, we
checked for certain banned compounds and elements.)

That's not idiocy. It's responsible standard operating procedure. Or
at least it was, fifteen years ago.

Are you telling me that factories today aren't inspecting their parts
any more?

Apparently, the US toy distributors were not inspecting their imports too
much, until somebody found lead in the paint.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:30:37 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 16, 2:19 am, Gunner wrote:
Im fascinated by the fact the buffoon thinks that the end user or
retailer is supposed to act as the QA department of a manufacturer
3500 miles away, and with 3 degrees of separation.

As a former QC tech for a US factory, one of my tasks was to inspect
incoming shipments using random samples to determine if they did
indeed meet specifications. The shipments came from more than 3500
miles away, with many degrees of separation. One of the things we
checked was chemical content of the paint. (More specifically, we
checked for certain banned compounds and elements.)

Yes, in manufacturing, that's only logical.

That's not idiocy. It's responsible standard operating procedure. Or
at least it was, fifteen years ago.

Of course not. It's also not the topic of discussion in this case.

Are you telling me that factories today aren't inspecting their parts
any more?

The factories, are in China. And if they're inspecting 'em, the same
people putting lead paint on the toys are the ones "inspecting" for it.
Mattel or whomever then imports it, obviously without checking it.
Yeah, they share the blame and are the only entity we can actually
legally do anything about, but the ultimate blame belongs to the people
putting banned substances in the products in the first place.

We're not importing toy parts, we're importing toys, packaged and ready
for the store shelf.

On Dec 16, 12:06 pm, Dave Hinz wrote:

We're not importing toy parts, we're importing toys, packaged and ready
for the store shelf.
As has been pointed out, the distributors should be inspecting those
toys even if they're "ready for the store shelf"

You can blame the Chinese factories all you want. They deserve it. But
unless I misunderstand you, it seems you want to place no blame at all
on the parent companies who are taking them, without any inspection,
and placing them on the store shelves.

In my factory, we shipped out many things "Ready for the shelves" and
we sometimes got shipments returned because of something somebody
found in an inspection. Sometimes it was our fault, sometimes it was a
mistake.

My point is that those toys should have had a better final inspection
from the people that bought them. Part of the blame goes to the
customer. Not all, but dammit, our people got sloppy too. You're
supposed to keep better tabs on your suppliers than that.

Metalworking is not my first skill, and many of the questionable
sections of your article are probably technical in nature, not
grammatical. Also, the lack of paragraphing in your text makes it more
difficult to read. I'll go through it sentence by sentence and tell
you where I think it's rough.

(Many of the "rough spots" are the sort of thing I used to find in my
classmate's papers, by the way. They aren't really indicative that
English is the second language of the writer.)

First is the original sentence, then my version of syntax and grammar.
This is a rough draft, requiring further review. Paragraphing can be
discussed later. :-)

Also note this was done as an excuse to delay going outside to shovel
snow. Which I am now about to go and do.
--------------------------------------

Different microstructures and mechanical properties can be developed
in a variety of annealing temperature.

---Possibly change "in" to "at":
Different microstructures and mechanical properties can be developed
at a variety of annealing temperatures.

An investigation was undertaken
to examine effect of annealing temperature on microstructure and
mechanical of dual phase steel under simulated hot-dipped galvanizing.

------
An investigation was undertaken
to examine the effects of annealing temperature on microstructure and
mechanical properties of dual phase steel, under simulated hot-dipped
galvanizing conditions.


The steel (of composition 0.15wt%C 0.1wt%Si 1.7wt%Mn) was obtained at
three different heating temperatures (790?, 820?, 850?) by continuous
annealing experiment thermal simulator.

---- here, I fall down. I'm okay with this part:
The steel (of composition 0.15wt%C 0.1wt%Si 1.7wt%Mn) was obtained at
three different heating temperatures (790?, 820?, 850?)

----- but when I get here, I'm a little confused.
by continuous annealing experiment thermal simulator.

----Do we mean, we used a "continuous annealing experiment thermal
simulator"?
-- or did we use continuous annealing in a thermal simulator as an
experiment?
--- a little more explanation is in order, I think.


The microstructures were
observed by the optical microscope and transmission electron
microscopy, and the mechanical properties were tested.

The microstructures were
observed using an optical microscope and transmission electron
microscopy, and the mechanical properties were tested.


Under hot-dip
galvanizing condition, the effect of annealing temperature on
microstructure and the relationship of microstructure and mechanical
properties have been investigated.

Under hot-dip
galvanizing conditions, the effect of annealing temperature on
microstructure and the relationship of microstructure to mechanical
properties were investigated.

Increasing the annealing
temperature, martensite volume fraction increases, and intergranular
carbide reduces and ferrite intragranular carbide becomes small.

------ Again, I'm not sure. I think this is what it means:
When the annealing temperature is increased,
martensite volume fraction increases, intergranular
carbide reduces, and ferrite intragranular carbide becomes small.

When
the annealing temperature is 790?, most of martensite distributes
intergranular region.

--- a little problem with the degree symbol. Mac, Windows, and Unix
-- often disagree about it. I am also stumped about what's happening
-- with the martensite. I know it's a displacive rather than diffusive
-- crystaline structure but don't know if it's being transformed
-- or whether it's redistributing itself, or whether it's doing
something
-- to the intergranular region.

When the annealing temperature is 790 degrees, most of the
martensite distributes to the intergranular region.

---
Increasing the annealing temperature,
intragranular island martensite increases.

--- I think this is correct.
Increasing the annealing temperature causes the intragranular
martensite island to increase.

When the annealing
temperature reaches 820?,twin martensite appears in the room
temperature microstructure.

--- This is the meaning I take from that, but I don't' know if it's
correct:
When the annealing
temperature reaches 820 degrees,twin martensite areas appear in the
room
temperature microstructure.


-- No problem found. :-)
The influence of annealing temperature on the flow curve is
significant.

When the annealing temperature is 790?,
there is obvious yield point elongation.

When the annealing
temperature is 820?, yield point elongation disappears.

At the same time, tensile strength fluctuates with the
annealing temperature changes.

On Dec 12, 9:10 pm, wrote:
English is a little trouble for me .so ,there are maybe some errors in
my writting.
so I hope someone who is kind help me check the syntax error (grammar
mistakes)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Different microstructures and mechanical properties can be developed
in a variety of annealing temperature. An investigation was undertaken
to examine effect of annealing temperature on microstructure and
mechanical of dual phase steel under simulated hot-dipped galvanizing.
The steel (of composition 0.15wt%C 0.1wt%Si 1.7wt%Mn) was obtained at
three different heating temperatures (790$B!n(B, 820$B!n(B, 850$B!n(B) by continuous
annealing experiment thermal simulator. The microstructures were
observed by the optical microscope and transmission electron
microscopy, and the mechanical properties were tested. Under hot-dip
galvanizing condition, the effect of annealing temperature on
microstructure and the relationship of microstructure and mechanical
properties have been investigated. Increasing the annealing
temperature, martensite volume fraction increases, and intergranular
carbide reduces and ferrite intragranular carbide becomes small. When
the annealing temperature is 790$B!n(B, most of martensite distributes
intergranular region. Increasing the annealing temperature,
intragranular island martensite increases. When the annealing
temperature reaches 820$B!n!$(Btwin martensite appears in the room
temperature microstructure. The influence of annealing temperature on
the flow curve is significant. When the annealing temperature is 790$B!n(B,
there is obvious yield point elongation. When the annealing
temperature is 820$B!n(B, yield point elongation disappears. At the same
time, tensile strength fluctuates with the annealing temperature
changes.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:14:25 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 16, 12:06 pm, Dave Hinz wrote:

We're not importing toy parts, we're importing toys, packaged and ready
for the store shelf.
As has been pointed out, the distributors should be inspecting those
toys even if they're "ready for the store shelf"

Yes. As I've said several times, both here and on the website I built
to show how bad the problem is, productrecallwatch.com . It downloads
RSS feeds from the CPSC, FDA, DOT, and several other government sources.
I haven't done this week's rundown yet but, dozens of products just last
week with lead paint. From China.

You can blame the Chinese factories all you want. They deserve it. But
unless I misunderstand you, it seems you want to place no blame at all
on the parent companies who are taking them, without any inspection,
and placing them on the store shelves.

Yes, you are misunderstanding me horribly. I've been quite clear that
the importer is the only one who we can legally do anything with and
they share some of the blame. I have also been quite clear and
consistent that the factories choosing to use toxins in products made
for the US, are doing so intentionally and are ultimately to blame.

In my factory, we shipped out many things "Ready for the shelves" and
we sometimes got shipments returned because of something somebody
found in an inspection. Sometimes it was our fault, sometimes it was a
mistake.

Mistakes are also your fault. Whose else would you pretend they are?
Seems to me, the culture is "profit at any cost to the customers, and
apologize if we get caught". That is disgusting, but dozens of items a
week? It is hard to come to any other conclusion.

My point is that those toys should have had a better final inspection
from the people that bought them.

BULL****. The lead shouldn't be in there in the first place. This
isn't a surprise to the factories deciding to use it.

Part of the blame goes to the
customer.

BULL****.

Not all, but dammit, our people got sloppy too. You're
supposed to keep better tabs on your suppliers than that.

You disgust me.

On Dec 16, 12:33 pm, Dave Hinz wrote:
Mistakes are also your fault. Whose else would you pretend they are?
Seems to me, the culture is "profit at any cost to the customers, and
apologize if we get caught". That is disgusting, but dozens of items a
week? It is hard to come to any other conclusion.

By "mistake", I meant that the inspector misinterpreted the
specifications or used the wrong set of specs.

You disgust me.

Well, we have something in common. You disgust me too. :-)

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:58:40 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 16, 12:33 pm, Dave Hinz wrote:
Mistakes are also your fault. Whose else would you pretend they are?
Seems to me, the culture is "profit at any cost to the customers, and
apologize if we get caught". That is disgusting, but dozens of items a
week? It is hard to come to any other conclusion.

By "mistake", I meant that the inspector misinterpreted the
specifications or used the wrong set of specs.

That is not an excuse for using lead paint. That is not an excuse for
using 1,4-butanediol (metabolizes into coma-inducing drugs if swallowed)
in a childrens toy, instead of the 1,5-butanediol that was specified. A
Chinese factory decided to use the cheaper chemical, despite the fact
that it's not safe.

A factory in China decided to use lead paint on decorations:
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08050.html

What spec do you pretend could possibly be "misinterpreted" which could
lead to someone thinking putting lead paint in direct contact with food
is a good idea?

It's time that the US revokes China's "most favored trade nation
status". Trade _partners_ do not intentionally poison the children of
their customers. Pretending it's a mistake or anything other than a
consious decision based on greed and malice. Which motivation is it?
Are you trying to save a few pennies, or is your primary motivation in
trying, intentionally, to harm the generation of Americans which may
very well go to war with China?

Gunner wrote:
On 16 Dec 2007 00:28:31 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:


I don't know where you get the idea that
I'm a China-apologist. I haven't taken
them off the hook whatsoever. What I
have said is own up to your
responsibility.

They're given a spec. They arbitrarily decide to deviate from the
spec and use something cheaper and toxic. And then YOU defend
them.

Im fascinated by the fact the buffoon thinks that the end user or
retailer is supposed to act as the QA department of a manufacturer
3500 miles away, and with 3 degrees of separation.

Two of the major recalls were of toys sold by Mattel. They are not a
retailer and yes they bloody well _are_ supposed to act as the QA.

Several were from Toys R Us, which is not some neighborhood shop,
they're a very large franchise operation with centralized purchasing
and they also should bloody well be making sure that what they are
selling in their stores does not violate the safety laws. Jo-Ann
fabrics the same way.

Put it this way, if you bought a saw from Sears and it threw the blade
at you, would you be angry at Sears or would you be angry at the
Chinese because in your opinion it wasn't Sears' responsibility to
perform quality control on the products they sold?

Thats idiocy.

No, idiocy was Mattel failing to ensure that what was sent to them was
what was ordered.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
Gunner wrote:
On 16 Dec 2007 00:28:31 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

I don't know where you get the idea that
I'm a China-apologist. I haven't taken
them off the hook whatsoever. What I
have said is own up to your
responsibility.
They're given a spec. They arbitrarily decide to deviate from the
spec and use something cheaper and toxic. And then YOU defend
them.
Im fascinated by the fact the buffoon thinks that the end user or
retailer is supposed to act as the QA department of a manufacturer
3500 miles away, and with 3 degrees of separation.

Two of the major recalls were of toys sold by Mattel. They are not a
retailer and yes they bloody well _are_ supposed to act as the QA.

Several were from Toys R Us, which is not some neighborhood shop,
they're a very large franchise operation with centralized purchasing
and they also should bloody well be making sure that what they are
selling in their stores does not violate the safety laws. Jo-Ann
fabrics the same way.

Put it this way, if you bought a saw from Sears and it threw the blade
at you, would you be angry at Sears or would you be angry at the
Chinese because in your opinion it wasn't Sears' responsibility to
perform quality control on the products they sold?

Thats idiocy.

No, idiocy was Mattel failing to ensure that what was sent to them was
what was ordered.


Amen. Buffoon indeed. 35 miles away or
3500 miles away. Makes no difference.
Importers are responsible for QC. But as
I indicated in another post, I had used
the term retailer when I should have
used importer.

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:22:09 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
Gunner wrote:

Im fascinated by the fact the buffoon thinks that the end user or
retailer is supposed to act as the QA department of a manufacturer
3500 miles away, and with 3 degrees of separation.

Two of the major recalls were of toys sold by Mattel. They are not a
retailer and yes they bloody well _are_ supposed to act as the QA.

Two? There were 30+ last week.

Several were from Toys R Us, which is not some neighborhood shop,
they're a very large franchise operation with centralized purchasing
and they also should bloody well be making sure that what they are
selling in their stores does not violate the safety laws. Jo-Ann
fabrics the same way.

Yup, Jo-Ann Fabrics is another prime importer of lead-painted Chinese
stuff. I blame them as well as the manufacturers.

Put it this way, if you bought a saw from Sears and it threw the blade
at you, would you be angry at Sears or would you be angry at the
Chinese because in your opinion it wasn't Sears' responsibility to
perform quality control on the products they sold?

Both. But Sears is the only entity with a USA'n presense that I could
have any recourse with.

No, idiocy was Mattel failing to ensure that what was sent to them was
what was ordered.

What was worse was the chairman of Mattel apologizing TO THE CHINESE for
the lead paint recalls. W. T. F.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:56:14 -0500, Tanus wrote:

Amen. Buffoon indeed. 35 miles away or
3500 miles away. Makes no difference.

How so? If they're 35 miles away, they follow USA'n laws. In China,
obviously, not.

Importers are responsible for QC.

NO. Manufacturers are responsible to follow the damn spec and not just
apologize if caught.

But as
I indicated in another post, I had used
the term retailer when I should have
used importer.

Backpedal noted.

If I buy something for resale, then resell it to someone who is
injured because of something intrinsic to the product, whose fault is
it?

Mine!

If the product met my specifications, it's my fault because it was
manufactured to my specification.

If the product didn't meet my specifications, it's my fault because I
didn't insure that what I received was what I ordered before I resold
it. True, I may have recourse to the supplier, but that's not my
customer's problem. His beef is with me.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Tanus wrote:


Amen. Buffoon indeed. 35 miles away or
3500 miles away. Makes no difference.
Importers are responsible for QC. But as
I indicated in another post, I had used
the term retailer when I should have
used importer.


Not when the manufacturer is paid to do it.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Tanus wrote:


Amen. Buffoon indeed. 35 miles away or
3500 miles away. Makes no difference.
Importers are responsible for QC. But as
I indicated in another post, I had used
the term retailer when I should have
used importer.


Not when the manufacturer is paid to do it.

Yes when the manufacturer is paid to do it. Boeing is paid to provide
the airlines with quality airplanes. You think the airline taking
delivery just puts the plane in service without having their mechanics
go over it?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Tanus wrote:


Amen. Buffoon indeed. 35 miles away or
3500 miles away. Makes no difference.
Importers are responsible for QC. But as
I indicated in another post, I had used
the term retailer when I should have
used importer.


Not when the manufacturer is paid to do it.

Yes when the manufacturer is paid to do it. Boeing is paid to provide
the airlines with quality airplanes. You think the airline taking
delivery just puts the plane in service without having their mechanics
go over it?


Do you thionk that comapres to a cheap toy?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:27:28 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Tanus wrote:

Not when the manufacturer is paid to do it.

Yes when the manufacturer is paid to do it. Boeing is paid to provide
the airlines with quality airplanes. You think the airline taking
delivery just puts the plane in service without having their mechanics
go over it?


Do you thionk that comapres to a cheap toy?

As far as the principle involved is concerned, yes, I believe it is
comparable.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

wrote in message
...
On Dec 13, 2:05 pm, "Stupendous Man" wrote:
I have corrected the document foor you.
Here it is in proper English

Much copy and paste verbage deleted.

Here is someone who obviously is trying to learn and improve their
English, and all you do is dredge up some stuff that is irrelavant.

Dan

Just a quick question:
How is metallurgy relevant to a lap steel newsgroup, other than possibly in
the resonant qualities of the bridge/tailpiece or the steel bar itself? Why
ask about tech-note grammar HERE?

As for China as a nation, many U.S. manufacturing jobs were eliminated here
and sent to China by greedy corporations whose only interest was in putting
more money in their own pockets. It left many Americans either jobless or
working for less pay at Walmart selling the very goods they used to make.
Forgive the sour grapes, but I don't feel the need to like the current
situation.
Also, if some Chinese goods are shoddy or dangerous, that's kind of an
important point. If you disagree, give YOUR child a Thomas the Tank Engine
to suck on.
Oh, and, please note that if the original post is truly from China, there's
an excellent chance that this thread is being monitored. Think about
that.----JMS