I picked up a new (old) fiddle today. Now I own 2 fiddles having cases that
are worn out! I was wondering whether someone here might help me combine my
interest in woodworking with my interest in music by guiding me towards
plans/directions to build my own cases. Considering the ornamentation
aspect, it seems like it could get rather interesting. Coming up with a
lightweight design is probably one of the challenges.

Thanks,
Bill

Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 8:21pm From: (Bill)
I picked up a new (old) fiddle today. Now I own 2 fiddles having cases
that are worn out! I was wondering whether someone here might help me
combine my interest in woodworking with my interest in music by guiding
me towards plans/directions to build my own cases. Considering the
ornamentation aspect, it seems like it could get rather interesting.
Coming up with a lightweight design is probably one of the challenges.

If it was guitar, banjo, or violin, cases I could probably help,
but not for fiddle cases.



JOAT
Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.

(J T) wrote in news:13586-475CAAD6-830@storefull-
3335.bay.webtv.net:


If it was guitar, banjo, or violin, cases I could probably help,
but not for fiddle cases.

How about for a Tommy gun?

On Dec 9, 8:21 pm, "Bill" wrote:
I picked up a new (old) fiddle today. Now I own 2 fiddles having cases that
are worn out! I was wondering whether someone here might help me combine my
interest in woodworking with my interest in music by guiding me towards
plans/directions to build my own cases. Considering the ornamentation
aspect, it seems like it could get rather interesting. Coming up with a
lightweight design is probably one of the challenges.

Thanks,
Bill

Briefcase design, birch aircraft ply. Ornamentation is best inside
the case, where it's least likely to be damaged by rough handling.
Paint the outside or cover it with vinyl or cloth.

Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 7:43pm (EST-3)
(Father*Haskell) did sayeth thusly:
Onsnip Paint the outside snip

Yellow?



JOAT
Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.

I wouldn't make cases for fiddles, since fiddles are too twangy. I
would start by making violin cases and, if I was still interested in
fiddles then I'd consider it. :-)

In all seriousness, if you can make a box you can make a violin case,
as violin cases are simply boxes. Now, you could throw a violin in a
suitcase or even a paper bag if you had to but there's a reason people
don't and a reason violin cases are made the way they are. As with any
box you have to consider what the box needs to do for what it will
hold. In this case the box needs to:

1. Protect the instrument from moving as little as possible.
2. Protect the instrument from certain accidental drops of Min = 3
feet/1 Meter; Max 6 feet/ 2 Meters
3. Protect the instrument from moisture and humidity.
4. Protect the instrument from crushing
5. Protect the instrument from rubbing away the finish.

These requirements are not very negotiable with violinists. When you
say "Coming up with a
lightweight design is probably one of the challenges", you have to
rephrase to say, "coming up with a lightweight design that still meets
all the users requirements is probably one challenge I may consider
addressing". When you realize that the only way to lighten the box is
by using some material like carbon fiber, you may skip the challenge.
When you recognize that violin users may not really care if the case
is lighter than existing cases you may realize it was never a problem
to begin with- but that's something you'd have to ask violin players.

That said, I think you're working your way backwards from an imaginary
point, which is where most of us woodworkers start but don't always
finish. You're thinking of the final product in someone's hands, with
its intricate inlay, beautiful figured wood and rock hard, mirror
finish. It's these goals that motivate us to take on the craziest of
projects, but at some point we need to set put the dream in the back
of our minds and put one foot in front of the other, regardless of the
quicksand we've just stepped into. In your case, you must concentrate
on making a good solid case then worry about ornamentation afterwards.
A good solid case is challenge enough.

If you can't wait to throw away money on wood and Tylenol, get your
saw and start cutting right this instant. In fact, I recommend you do
go out and cut something before it drives you crazy. Sometimes that's
the only way to get crazy woodworking impulses out of our system. My
only recommendation is that you cut on scraps. Why waste good wood on
an impulse? After you've gotten that bug out of your system I suggest
you try the following:

1. Read
I don't know what your level of woodworking and finishing may be so I
make these reading recommendations with respect to the authors and no
disrespect to your skill. I find myself returning to these books often
for good advice.

A rudimentary understanding of box making is essential. You'll
probably want to have a look at one of Doug Stowe's outstanding box
making books. His Taunton Press guide to Boxmaking is pretty
thorough.

A thorough understanding of finishes is essential. You can't find a
better book than Bob Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing"

Box design and object design in general is a subject too vast for any
single book to cover but there are some steps that one finds
themselves repeating when designing. Taunton Press's "Practical Design
Solutions and Strategies" provides a very straightforward method that
most woodworkers (knowlingly or not) use or come to use. While this is
not a definitive book on the subject it's a great starting point.

I would study those topics in that order and when you get bored/
restless go out and chop on some scrap wood. Perhaps even practice
some of the methods in the books on very small items.

2. Study existing designs in depth.
Violin case interiors have been the same for a long time for a reason-
it's a practical, good design. I'm sure manufacturers use a standard
template at this point. If it were me I'd avoid reinventing the wheel,
particularly if my greater interest were in ornamentation. I'd be hard
pressed not to pull the interior, hardware and seal from an existing
case and fit it into a case I'd build. At the least I'd reverse
engineer a good existing case and start from there. If you're building
from scratch you would do well to create a scaled or full sized
drawing of the interior, since you will use it at later.

4. Know the limitations of your tools and skill.
You may want to put the hidden dovetails throughout every joint on the
case or have complex curves throughout but your hand saw and three
months experience in Jr. High woodshop might steer you otherwise. The
temptation at this stage is to buy some super cool tool to compensate
for experience (i.e. Omni Jig), but you'd still have to learn how to
use that tool and use it well to see good results. It's best to use
what you have and do the best with what you have than to try to learn
a new tool for a project, but you can look at any woodworker and see
he/she found that out the hard way.

3. Rough sketch your case design.
Here is where you need to go back to that crazy inspiration that took
you down this road to start with. You may be too tired to draw
anything but a rectangular box which resembles a suitcase. Perhaps a
rest or beer is in order.

4. Draw a first draft of your design.
Keep in mind it may change but here is where you try to put to paper
the closest thing to a finished product as you can. You're drawing
what will become your first prototype so it's a good idea to get the
joinery figured out on paper. Figuring out joinery as you cut is a bad
practice.

5. Build a mock up from scrap wood.
I suggest you BUILD ONLY ONE. At this stage it's tempting to think
"I'm done. I've built it. This is as far as I'm taking this design and
I'm ready to start selling/giving them away to the masses. I should
build a jig for each step and call it a day." Ha! What happens if you
build your jigs only to find out that you miscalculated the depth of a
rabbit and weakened a supportive piece? You may end up with 800 pieces
of wood from a jig that all have to be thrown away. Also, what if you
hate the design? Think it's easier to fix a glued up, finished box to
fit your requirements? Probably not. A mock up is a good place to test
a design and expect failures. You can't expect to get it perfect on
the first try. You should stive for perfection but you should work out
the bugs with a mock up.

6. Modify your drawings if you have any errors.

7. Build a second mock up or (if your confident enough at this point)
a finished piece

After you've built the perfect case, you have to think about
distribution. If you're a gazillionaire then working for free (i.e.
giving them to friends and family) seems sensible. If you're like the
rest of us you may want to try to make money from your product/piece
of art, etc. Here's the second hurdle.

While you may eventually be able to make the most beautiful cases
there is a limit to any given market, particularly one with high
saturation. As you can see from the link below:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ELAID=26913289

That's not a bad case for $65 and odds are you couldn't build it and
distribute it for much less. I'm certain there is a market for
exquisite violin cases but it might take a little while (i.e. trial
and error, skill building, $) to get there. You have to ask yourself,
"if no one would ever buy this item would I still be satisfied putting
my blood, sweat, tears and time away from friends and family into it?"
If you answer "no", then you might want to reconsider making cases. If
you answered 'yes' then you're on your way to becomming a true
woodworker.

In article , "Bill" wrote:

I picked up a new (old) fiddle today. Now I own 2 fiddles having cases that
are worn out! I was wondering whether someone here might help me combine my
interest in woodworking with my interest in music by guiding me towards
plans/directions to build my own cases. Considering the ornamentation
aspect, it seems like it could get rather interesting. Coming up with a
lightweight design is probably one of the challenges.

Visit one or two music stores to look at the different
design approaches -- they are many and varied. I'm in
the fortunate position of having a daughter in a school
orchestra and that would provide the opportunity to
look at a lot of different violin cases. I'm pretty
sure the Music Director at her school would be a rich
source of ideas and inputs too -- I know he has to
take care of a lot of instruments and he almost
certainly has a good feel for which cases are most
effective at protecting them from the inevitable abuse.


--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I extend my thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. As I am
a beginner woodworker, I especially appreciate it when people recommend
books. I have been reading a great deal about woodworking for the last 1.5
years or so. Most recently I picked up The Handyman's Book by Paul Hasluck
(originally published in 1903) which was recommended here. It reads with a
formal style that I find appealing--as if the mentor is speaking. The
author seems to try to cover up the fact that he is (probably) an academic
by over-using the word "stuff"! I subscribe to a couple of woodworking
magazines and I browse this newsgroup every day. This "sickness" all started
when I took an interest in building a "minstrel style" banjo and that led me
into woodworking in general. I loved The Handplane Book!

As suggested by Chris giraffe's outline below, just considering the process
of designing a case is an interesting academic exercise in itself. Just from
that statement, it probably shows that I am not really into this for the
money--at least, I'm not thinking in those terms yet. His outline is quite
similar to that of the software engineering process with which I am more
familiar. Chris, thanks for taking the time to make such an interesting
post.

I confess that when I was first posted, it occurred to me that I could place
some foam in an extra small suitcase that I have and probably fit in two
fiddles and a few bows (very cost effective solution). For a fancier
effect, I might use a gun case. That, however, is not art... If I want a
functional coffee table, I could go to Walmart. That, however, is also not
art. When I browse some of the work on the back pages of FWW magazine,
ahhh, I say, that is art. I show the pictures to my wife to help her "get
it" (I don't think she's really "gets it" yet). It seems though that as long
as I am willing to build enough bird houses/feeders, that I'll be able to
justify all of the tools I'll "need". ; ) Before too long I'll have a
garage and be able to make some sawdust... In the meantime, I need to
learn how to reset a soundpost!

Regards,
Bill



"Chrisgiraffe" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't make cases for fiddles, since fiddles are too twangy. I
would start by making violin cases and, if I was still interested in
fiddles then I'd consider it. :-)

In all seriousness, if you can make a box you can make a violin case,
as violin cases are simply boxes. Now, you could throw a violin in a
suitcase or even a paper bag if you had to but there's a reason people
don't and a reason violin cases are made the way they are. As with any
box you have to consider what the box needs to do for what it will
hold. In this case the box needs to:

1. Protect the instrument from moving as little as possible.
2. Protect the instrument from certain accidental drops of Min = 3
feet/1 Meter; Max 6 feet/ 2 Meters
3. Protect the instrument from moisture and humidity.
4. Protect the instrument from crushing
5. Protect the instrument from rubbing away the finish.

These requirements are not very negotiable with violinists. When you
say "Coming up with a
lightweight design is probably one of the challenges", you have to
rephrase to say, "coming up with a lightweight design that still meets
all the users requirements is probably one challenge I may consider
addressing". When you realize that the only way to lighten the box is
by using some material like carbon fiber, you may skip the challenge.
When you recognize that violin users may not really care if the case
is lighter than existing cases you may realize it was never a problem
to begin with- but that's something you'd have to ask violin players.

That said, I think you're working your way backwards from an imaginary
point, which is where most of us woodworkers start but don't always
finish. You're thinking of the final product in someone's hands, with
its intricate inlay, beautiful figured wood and rock hard, mirror
finish. It's these goals that motivate us to take on the craziest of
projects, but at some point we need to set put the dream in the back
of our minds and put one foot in front of the other, regardless of the
quicksand we've just stepped into. In your case, you must concentrate
on making a good solid case then worry about ornamentation afterwards.
A good solid case is challenge enough.

If you can't wait to throw away money on wood and Tylenol, get your
saw and start cutting right this instant. In fact, I recommend you do
go out and cut something before it drives you crazy. Sometimes that's
the only way to get crazy woodworking impulses out of our system. My
only recommendation is that you cut on scraps. Why waste good wood on
an impulse? After you've gotten that bug out of your system I suggest
you try the following:

1. Read
I don't know what your level of woodworking and finishing may be so I
make these reading recommendations with respect to the authors and no
disrespect to your skill. I find myself returning to these books often
for good advice.

A rudimentary understanding of box making is essential. You'll
probably want to have a look at one of Doug Stowe's outstanding box
making books. His Taunton Press guide to Boxmaking is pretty
thorough.

A thorough understanding of finishes is essential. You can't find a
better book than Bob Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing"

Box design and object design in general is a subject too vast for any
single book to cover but there are some steps that one finds
themselves repeating when designing. Taunton Press's "Practical Design
Solutions and Strategies" provides a very straightforward method that
most woodworkers (knowlingly or not) use or come to use. While this is
not a definitive book on the subject it's a great starting point.

I would study those topics in that order and when you get bored/
restless go out and chop on some scrap wood. Perhaps even practice
some of the methods in the books on very small items.

2. Study existing designs in depth.
Violin case interiors have been the same for a long time for a reason-
it's a practical, good design. I'm sure manufacturers use a standard
template at this point. If it were me I'd avoid reinventing the wheel,
particularly if my greater interest were in ornamentation. I'd be hard
pressed not to pull the interior, hardware and seal from an existing
case and fit it into a case I'd build. At the least I'd reverse
engineer a good existing case and start from there. If you're building
from scratch you would do well to create a scaled or full sized
drawing of the interior, since you will use it at later.

4. Know the limitations of your tools and skill.
You may want to put the hidden dovetails throughout every joint on the
case or have complex curves throughout but your hand saw and three
months experience in Jr. High woodshop might steer you otherwise. The
temptation at this stage is to buy some super cool tool to compensate
for experience (i.e. Omni Jig), but you'd still have to learn how to
use that tool and use it well to see good results. It's best to use
what you have and do the best with what you have than to try to learn
a new tool for a project, but you can look at any woodworker and see
he/she found that out the hard way.

3. Rough sketch your case design.
Here is where you need to go back to that crazy inspiration that took
you down this road to start with. You may be too tired to draw
anything but a rectangular box which resembles a suitcase. Perhaps a
rest or beer is in order.

4. Draw a first draft of your design.
Keep in mind it may change but here is where you try to put to paper
the closest thing to a finished product as you can. You're drawing
what will become your first prototype so it's a good idea to get the
joinery figured out on paper. Figuring out joinery as you cut is a bad
practice.

5. Build a mock up from scrap wood.
I suggest you BUILD ONLY ONE. At this stage it's tempting to think
"I'm done. I've built it. This is as far as I'm taking this design and
I'm ready to start selling/giving them away to the masses. I should
build a jig for each step and call it a day." Ha! What happens if you
build your jigs only to find out that you miscalculated the depth of a
rabbit and weakened a supportive piece? You may end up with 800 pieces
of wood from a jig that all have to be thrown away. Also, what if you
hate the design? Think it's easier to fix a glued up, finished box to
fit your requirements? Probably not. A mock up is a good place to test
a design and expect failures. You can't expect to get it perfect on
the first try. You should stive for perfection but you should work out
the bugs with a mock up.

6. Modify your drawings if you have any errors.

7. Build a second mock up or (if your confident enough at this point)
a finished piece

After you've built the perfect case, you have to think about
distribution. If you're a gazillionaire then working for free (i.e.
giving them to friends and family) seems sensible. If you're like the
rest of us you may want to try to make money from your product/piece
of art, etc. Here's the second hurdle.

While you may eventually be able to make the most beautiful cases
there is a limit to any given market, particularly one with high
saturation. As you can see from the link below:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ELAID=26913289

That's not a bad case for $65 and odds are you couldn't build it and
distribute it for much less. I'm certain there is a market for
exquisite violin cases but it might take a little while (i.e. trial
and error, skill building, $) to get there. You have to ask yourself,
"if no one would ever buy this item would I still be satisfied putting
my blood, sweat, tears and time away from friends and family into it?"
If you answer "no", then you might want to reconsider making cases. If
you answered 'yes' then you're on your way to becomming a true
woodworker.

On Dec 9, 11:24 pm, (J T) wrote:
Sun, Dec 9, 2007, 7:43pm (EST-3)
(Father Haskell) did sayeth thusly:
Onsnip Paint the outside snip

Yellow?

International Harvester yellow. Gloss. Over filed and wet
sanded Bondo.

JOAT
Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.

Mon, Dec 10, 2007, 8:23pm (EST-3)
(Father*Haskell) doth sayeth:
International Harvester yellow. Gloss. Over filed and wet sanded Bondo.

Cool. You're my new hero.



JOAT
Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.

On 10 Dec, 03:19, Smaug Ichorfang wrote:

but not for fiddle cases.

How about for a Tommy gun?

You can't fit a Tommy gun in almost any violin case, as Hollywood
portray it. Nor did Chicago gangsters ever suddenly lift one out of
the case and start blazing away. Gangsters did use them, but only to
smuggle them into buildings unnoticed (for as long as Chicago still
trusted musicians). The problem is width - the drum magazine on a
Thompson is too wide (when in place) to fit in the violin case, and it
only fits if you remove it and lay it flat. Once inside they had to
stop and re-fit the drum magazine before opening fire.

The "barn top" style of violin case works better than a curved side-
profile case. There's at least one collector who has a violin case
modified to take one with the drum still attached, by bulging out the
flat side. No one can agree if this was ever done in period though.

There's also the weight issue. An original Thompson is heavy, even
heavier than an M1A1 "Tommy gun". They've been know to simply break
through the thin ply of a violin case, unless strengthened beforehand.
As every owner of a Tommy gun does traditionally store it in a violin
case at least once, this has been known to happen. And you don't want
to go around dropping something as valuable as a pre-war Thompson.

Most of the survivors today are the wartime simplified Thompson, the
M1A1, not Thompson's original design with the drum. This only had a
vertical stick magazine, and you've no chance of fitting one of those
into a violin case unremoved.

Then you have the people who've extended the whole "instrument case"
notion: flintlock pistols in flute cases, the film "Desperado" and the
rocket launcher guitar. Even a very nice 18th century harpsichord case
full of shotguns.

"Chrisgiraffe" wrote in message news:44f6d687-3d5f-
If you can't wait to throw away money on wood and Tylenol, get your
saw and start cutting right this instant. In fact, I recommend you do
go out and cut something before it drives you crazy. Sometimes that's
the only way to get crazy woodworking impulses out of our system.

You're right I've been a handtool collecting apartment dweller for too
long...I need to start cutting! ; )

-Bill