I've been doing some doweling and plugging today, and have discovered
a couple of things. First, store-bought dowels are rarely sized
accurately. Whether this is do to fluxuations in moisture content or
milling I do not know. That said, the relative size discrepancy is
significantly larger than it should be, IMO.

Because of the undersized dowels, I pulled out some tapered plugs that
I had purchased from LV a while back. (Frankly, I'm amazed that I was
able to find them, given the state of The Great Reorganization down
there...) IAE, these go in nice and snugly with some glue and a tap
from the hammer. However, they do sit proud of the surface and needed
to be trimmed flush. I initially tried trimming them with a sharp (2k
grit paper) chisel, but this actually ripped half of the plug out and
tore the surround wood a little bit. (The plugs and surface are both
hard maple.) Then I tried a low angle block and it worked
excellently, albeit slowly. I probably tried to take too deep of a
cut with the chisel. But it's worth noting that a tapered plug only
has a very small ring of surface area in tight contact with the
surrounding wood, so tread lightly.

Maybe it's time for one of those dowel plates that Mr. Lie-Nielsen
makes. Seems like a lot of $$$ for such a simple tool though. Any
comparable alternatives out there?

JP

"Jay Pique" wrote in message
excellently, albeit slowly. I probably tried to take too deep of a
cut with the chisel. But it's worth noting that a tapered plug only
has a very small ring of surface area in tight contact with the
surrounding wood, so tread lightly.

You might also consider a flush cutting saw. Lee Valley link of course.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...28&cat=1,42884

"Jay Pique" wrote in message
oups.com...
to be trimmed flush. I initially tried trimming them with a sharp (2k
grit paper) chisel, but this actually ripped half of the plug out and
tore the surround wood a little bit. (The plugs and surface are both
hard maple.) Then I tried a low angle block and it worked

When you trim plugs with a chisel, take a first cut about halfway down the
part of the plug that stands proud, and see which way the grain runs. It
will usually dive down a little in one direction or the other. Then take
another cut, just a little proud, from the low side. Finally, pare off the
rest of the plug, with the chisel held flat side down right on the wood if
you can reach the plug that way, taking a skewing cut at an angle to the
grain to slice the last of the fibers off. Use a wide chisel for the last
paring cut. With a sharp chisel, ground low for paring, only light taps from
the mallet will be enough to do this, so you can avoid tipping the plug out
with the high cuts.

If you want to try the flush-cutting saw, be sure to get one that has NO
kerf at all on one side so that it doesn't scratch the surrounding wood
while you're cutting. Lee Valley is the most well-known place to get such a
saw, but there are others as well.

Rather than using dowels and seeing end grain on your plugs, invest in a few
plug cutters (Fuller makes them, and they're not hard to find), and cut your
own plugs from your offcuts for near-perfect grain matches. You can find
cutters to cut tapered plugs, too, if you especially like them, but a good
sharp plug cutter, matched with a sharp countersink or counterbore from the
same manufacturer (Fuller, again) will product a good fit for the plugs and
a glue line no wider than the tapered plugs produce.

For furniture, you don't even need glue for well-fitting plugs. Just use the
same finish you plan to use on the piece. Dip the end of the plug in a dish
of the finish and tap it in. This will avoid a glue line from a contrasting
glue color, and also makes it easier to take the piece apart later if you
ever need to.

Tom Dacon

Tom Dacon wrote:
"Jay Pique" wrote in message
oups.com...
to be trimmed flush. I initially tried trimming them with a sharp
(2k grit paper) chisel, but this actually ripped half of the plug
out and tore the surround wood a little bit. (The plugs and
surface are both hard maple.) Then I tried a low angle block and
it worked

When you trim plugs with a chisel, take a first cut about halfway
down the part of the plug that stands proud, and see which way the
grain runs. It will usually dive down a little in one direction or
the other. Then take another cut, just a little proud, from the low
side. Finally, pare off the rest of the plug, with the chisel held
flat side down right on the wood if you can reach the plug that
way, taking a skewing cut at an angle to the grain to slice the
last of the fibers off. Use a wide chisel for the last paring cut.
With a sharp chisel, ground low for paring, only light taps from
the mallet will be enough to do this, so you can avoid tipping the
plug out with the high cuts.

If you want to try the flush-cutting saw, be sure to get one that
has NO kerf at all on one side so that it doesn't scratch the
surrounding wood while you're cutting. Lee Valley is the most
well-known place to get such a saw, but there are others as well.

Rather than using dowels and seeing end grain on your plugs, invest
in a few plug cutters (Fuller makes them, and they're not hard to
find), and cut your own plugs from your offcuts for near-perfect
grain matches. You can find cutters to cut tapered plugs, too, if
you especially like them, but a good sharp plug cutter, matched
with a sharp countersink or counterbore from the same manufacturer
(Fuller, again) will product a good fit for the plugs and a glue
line no wider than the tapered plugs produce.

For furniture, you don't even need glue for well-fitting plugs.
Just use the same finish you plan to use on the piece. Dip the end
of the plug in a dish of the finish and tap it in. This will avoid
a glue line from a contrasting glue color, and also makes it easier
to take the piece apart later if you ever need to.

Tom Dacon

Now there's a man who knows how to use plugs!!

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Sep 29, 1:25 pm, "Tom Dacon" wrote:

When you trim plugs with a chisel, take a first cut about halfway down the
part of the plug that stands proud, and see which way the grain runs. It
will usually dive down a little in one direction or the other. Then take
another cut, just a little proud, from the low side. Finally, pare off the
rest of the plug, with the chisel held flat side down right on the wood if
you can reach the plug that way, taking a skewing cut at an angle to the
grain to slice the last of the fibers off. Use a wide chisel for the last
paring cut. With a sharp chisel, ground low for paring, only light taps from
the mallet will be enough to do this, so you can avoid tipping the plug out
with the high cuts.

If you want to try the flush-cutting saw, be sure to get one that has NO
kerf at all on one side so that it doesn't scratch the surrounding wood
while you're cutting. Lee Valley is the most well-known place to get such a
saw, but there are others as well.

Rather than using dowels and seeing end grain on your plugs, invest in a few
plug cutters (Fuller makes them, and they're not hard to find), and cut your
own plugs from your offcuts for near-perfect grain matches. You can find
cutters to cut tapered plugs, too, if you especially like them, but a good
sharp plug cutter, matched with a sharp countersink or counterbore from the
same manufacturer (Fuller, again) will product a good fit for the plugs and
a glue line no wider than the tapered plugs produce.

For furniture, you don't even need glue for well-fitting plugs. Just use the
same finish you plan to use on the piece. Dip the end of the plug in a dish
of the finish and tap it in. This will avoid a glue line from a contrasting
glue color, and also makes it easier to take the piece apart later if you
ever need to.


Thanks for the tips guys.

JP

"Jay Pique" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've been doing some doweling and plugging today, and have discovered
a couple of things. First, store-bought dowels are rarely sized
accurately. Whether this is do to fluxuations in moisture content or
milling I do not know. That said, the relative size discrepancy is
significantly larger than it should be, IMO.

Because of the undersized dowels, I pulled out some tapered plugs that
I had purchased from LV a while back. (Frankly, I'm amazed that I was
able to find them, given the state of The Great Reorganization down
there...) IAE, these go in nice and snugly with some glue and a tap
from the hammer. However, they do sit proud of the surface and needed
to be trimmed flush. I initially tried trimming them with a sharp (2k
grit paper) chisel, but this actually ripped half of the plug out and
tore the surround wood a little bit. (The plugs and surface are both
hard maple.) Then I tried a low angle block and it worked
excellently, albeit slowly. I probably tried to take too deep of a
cut with the chisel. But it's worth noting that a tapered plug only
has a very small ring of surface area in tight contact with the
surrounding wood, so tread lightly.

Maybe it's time for one of those dowel plates that Mr. Lie-Nielsen
makes. Seems like a lot of $$$ for such a simple tool though. Any
comparable alternatives out there?

I have tried all the ways, and years ago started and still use a flush trim
saw and then sand smooth with sand paper on a "hard" sanding block.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:25:58 -0700, Tom Dacon wrote:

If you want to try the flush-cutting saw, be sure to get one that has NO
kerf at all on one side so that it doesn't scratch the surrounding wood
while you're cutting. Lee Valley is the most well-known place to get such a
saw, but there are others as well.

I have one (from Woodcraft IIRC) that also claims to have no set (not
kerf) but I'm naturally paranoid - a piece of masking tape on each side of
the dowel is cheap insurance and leaves only a couple of thousandths to be
sanded.

Larry Blanchard wrote:
| On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:25:58 -0700, Tom Dacon wrote:
|
|| If you want to try the flush-cutting saw, be sure to get one that
|| has NO kerf at all on one side so that it doesn't scratch the
|| surrounding wood while you're cutting. Lee Valley is the most
|| well-known place to get such a saw, but there are others as well.
|
| I have one (from Woodcraft IIRC) that also claims to have no set
| (not kerf) but I'm naturally paranoid - a piece of masking tape on
| each side of the dowel is cheap insurance and leaves only a couple
| of thousandths to be sanded.

Aha! Excellent tip! Thanks. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:30:51 -0700, Jay Pique wrote:

I've been doing some doweling and plugging today, and have discovered
a couple of things. First, store-bought dowels are rarely sized
accurately. Whether this is do to fluxuations in moisture content or
milling I do not know. That said, the relative size discrepancy is
significantly larger than it should be, IMO.

Because of the undersized dowels, I pulled out some tapered plugs that
I had purchased from LV a while back. (Frankly, I'm amazed that I was
able to find them, given the state of The Great Reorganization down
there...) IAE, these go in nice and snugly with some glue and a tap
from the hammer. However, they do sit proud of the surface and needed
to be trimmed flush. I initially tried trimming them with a sharp (2k
grit paper) chisel, but this actually ripped half of the plug out and
tore the surround wood a little bit. (The plugs and surface are both
hard maple.) Then I tried a low angle block and it worked
excellently, albeit slowly. I probably tried to take too deep of a
cut with the chisel. But it's worth noting that a tapered plug only
has a very small ring of surface area in tight contact with the
surrounding wood, so tread lightly.

Maybe it's time for one of those dowel plates that Mr. Lie-Nielsen
makes. Seems like a lot of $$$ for such a simple tool though. Any
comparable alternatives out there?

JP

I've never had much success with tapered plugs... maybe my counter sinking
skills suck..


I was taught to use shop cut plugs, so I just kind of stuck with that..

A cool trick that I learned here at the wRECk is to run the plug cutter to a
depth slightly deeper than your hole, then use the band saw to "resaw" the
stock, so that the plugs fall out and have nice, flat bottoms..
I try to remember to hit the bottom of the plugs with a little sand paper before
pressing them in, but it seems to work without a taper, also.. YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sep 29, 11:30 am, Jay Pique wrote:
I've been doing some doweling and plugging today, and have discovered
a couple of things. First, store-bought dowels are rarely sized
accurately. Whether this is do to fluxuations in moisture content or
milling I do not know. That said, the relative size discrepancy is
significantly larger than it should be, IMO.

Because of the undersized dowels, I pulled out some tapered plugs that
I had purchased from LV a while back. (Frankly, I'm amazed that I was
able to find them, given the state of The Great Reorganization down
there...) IAE, these go in nice and snugly with some glue and a tap
from the hammer. However, they do sit proud of the surface and needed
to be trimmed flush. I initially tried trimming them with a sharp (2k
grit paper) chisel, but this actually ripped half of the plug out and
tore the surround wood a little bit. (The plugs and surface are both
hard maple.) Then I tried a low angle block and it worked
excellently, albeit slowly. I probably tried to take too deep of a
cut with the chisel. But it's worth noting that a tapered plug only
has a very small ring of surface area in tight contact with the
surrounding wood, so tread lightly.

Maybe it's time for one of those dowel plates that Mr. Lie-Nielsen
makes. Seems like a lot of $$$ for such a simple tool though. Any
comparable alternatives out there?

JP

If you use a half inch plug, than you should grind down your half inch
spade bit so it's a hair smaller on each side. Then the plugs will fit
tight.

On Sep 29, 11:51 pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
a piece of masking tape on each side of
the dowel is cheap insurance and leaves only a couple of thousandths to be
sanded.

Rather than masking tape, I use a thin sheet of brass with a few holes
in it to fit various plug sizes. Holes maybe 1/8" or so larger than
the plugs. Place the brass over the plug and cut away without
worrying about scratches. You'll have to pare or scrape or sand
afterward.

John Martin

John Martin wrote:
| On Sep 29, 11:51 pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
| a piece of masking tape on each side of
|| the dowel is cheap insurance and leaves only a couple of
|| thousandths to be sanded.
|
| Rather than masking tape, I use a thin sheet of brass with a few
| holes in it to fit various plug sizes. Holes maybe 1/8" or so
| larger than the plugs. Place the brass over the plug and cut away
| without worrying about scratches. You'll have to pare or scrape or
| sand afterward.

John...

Now you've got me thinking - somewhere in one of my junk boxes I have
some thin (slightly discolored) stainless steel stock...

Thanks!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:13:28 -0500, "Morris Dovey" wrote:

John Martin wrote:
| On Sep 29, 11:51 pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
| a piece of masking tape on each side of
|| the dowel is cheap insurance and leaves only a couple of
|| thousandths to be sanded.
|
| Rather than masking tape, I use a thin sheet of brass with a few
| holes in it to fit various plug sizes. Holes maybe 1/8" or so
| larger than the plugs. Place the brass over the plug and cut away
| without worrying about scratches. You'll have to pare or scrape or
| sand afterward.

John...

Now you've got me thinking - somewhere in one of my junk boxes I have
some thin (slightly discolored) stainless steel stock...

Thanks!
Or you could use that really accurate handyman club drill gauge that you've got
in reserve...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
| On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:13:28 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
| wrote:
|
|| John Martin wrote:
||| On Sep 29, 11:51 pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
||| a piece of masking tape on each side of
|||| the dowel is cheap insurance and leaves only a couple of
|||| thousandths to be sanded.
|||
||| Rather than masking tape, I use a thin sheet of brass with a few
||| holes in it to fit various plug sizes. Holes maybe 1/8" or so
||| larger than the plugs. Place the brass over the plug and cut away
||| without worrying about scratches. You'll have to pare or scrape
||| or sand afterward.
||
|| Now you've got me thinking - somewhere in one of my junk boxes I
|| have some thin (slightly discolored) stainless steel stock...
||
| Or you could use that really accurate handyman club drill gauge
| that you've got in reserve...

Horrors! One doesn't actually _use_ a HCOADG, one hangs it on the wall
so that fellow HCOA members will be able to recognize one's
attainments in the field of woodworking... 8-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 02:49:05 -0500, "Morris Dovey" wrote:

|| Now you've got me thinking - somewhere in one of my junk boxes I
|| have some thin (slightly discolored) stainless steel stock...
||
| Or you could use that really accurate handyman club drill gauge
| that you've got in reserve...

Horrors! One doesn't actually _use_ a HCOADG, one hangs it on the wall
so that fellow HCOA members will be able to recognize one's
attainments in the field of woodworking... 8-)

Oh...
I stand corrected... I thought that leaving the high quality miniature
screwdriver set on the bench would do it...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

One more trick. If you have a plunge router, pop in a straight bit or
mortising bit and set the depth so that it's just a whisker above the
surface. Plunge down or, if the base plate hole is large enough, move
sideways. The resulting stub will need only minimal scraping or
sanding. Of course this technique won't work where you don't have
space to get the base of the router down on the surface.

Dusty

wrote in message
oups.com...
One more trick. If you have a plunge router, pop in a straight bit or
mortising bit and set the depth so that it's just a whisker above the
surface. Plunge down or, if the base plate hole is large enough, move
sideways. The resulting stub will need only minimal scraping or
sanding. Of course this technique won't work where you don't have
space to get the base of the router down on the surface.

Dusty


That's a good one. I'd forgotten about that technique. About ten years or so
ago, I refastened all the planking on a 41' wooden sailboat, plugging over
the screw heads with 1/2" diameter teak plugs, and used larger ones up to 1
1/4" diameter over bolt heads. I chucked up a 3/4" mortising bit in an old
Porter Cable router (a 590, I think, and not a plunger) and swept the whole
hull of the boat with that thing. Flush-trimmed, or nearly so, about two
thousand plugs in less than a day. Then went over the whole thing with a
random orbital sander to take off the rest. Worked great. If I'd tried to
chisel them off, I'd still be chiseling today.

Tom Dacon

On Oct 3, 11:26 pm, "Tom Dacon" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

One more trick. If you have a plunge router, pop in a straight bit or
mortising bit and set the depth so that it's just a whisker above the
surface. Plunge down or, if the base plate hole is large enough, move
sideways. The resulting stub will need only minimal scraping or
sanding. Of course this technique won't work where you don't have
space to get the base of the router down on the surface.

Dusty

That's a good one. I'd forgotten about that technique. About ten years or so
ago, I refastened all the planking on a 41' wooden sailboat, plugging over
the screw heads with 1/2" diameter teak plugs, and used larger ones up to 1
1/4" diameter over bolt heads. I chucked up a 3/4" mortising bit in an old
Porter Cable router (a 590, I think, and not a plunger) and swept the whole
hull of the boat with that thing. Flush-trimmed, or nearly so, about two
thousand plugs in less than a day. Then went over the whole thing with a
random orbital sander to take off the rest. Worked great. If I'd tried to
chisel them off, I'd still be chiseling today.

Tom Dacon

Oh yes - that's a great trick. I keep saying that I'm gonna get a
lipping planer someday! Thanks for the tips.
JP

On Sep 29, 11:51 pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:25:58 -0700, Tom Dacon wrote:
If you want to try the flush-cutting saw, be sure to get one that has NO
kerf at all on one side so that it doesn't scratch the surrounding wood
while you're cutting. Lee Valley is the most well-known place to get such a
saw, but there are others as well.

I have one (from Woodcraft IIRC) that also claims to have no set (not
kerf) but I'm naturally paranoid - a piece of masking tape on each side of
the dowel is cheap insurance and leaves only a couple of thousandths to be
sanded.

Or run the tape down the saw.