Jack Stein wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
....
...I was unable to
turn my headlights OFF in my 2001 GMC pickup a year after I bought it.
... Eventually I found out you had to have the parking brake on before
the damned lights would go out...

I have one of those infernal things as well as the wife's Buick -- what
the heck is wrong w/ a stinkin' ol' off/head/park switch is beyond me.

--

Puckdropper wrote:

Electrical work is being mystified and mythified out of the realm of home
owners. Yes, you can burn your house down with an electrical fire. That
doesn't mean you have to live with a bad switch (more of a fire hazard)
that you don't want to pay an electrician $50 to come out and replace.
(This is the way it usually happens.)

People are scared because of all the fools out there that don't take the
time to learn how something's supposed to be done and plan it all out.

Thats because they spend 16 years of school learning English and not one
hour teaching them how to safely fix a light switch, or a leaky faucet,
or how to change a flat, or how to paint a house or anything much
useful. I might add most/many Americans could speak english about as
good the first day they walked into school as when they left 12/16 years
later.

I was looking at a house for my son to rent his senior year at college
and asked one of the kids moving out if he had a job lined up. He said
no, he was going to continue his education. I said you would think
after 16 years of school, and a TON of money for college he would have
finally been ready for employment... He said they mainly taught him how
to study.... 16 years of school and so far all he learned was how to
study.... go figure!

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

"Jack Stein" wrote

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Sorry, but on many cars, headlights and tails lights can be just as
difficult to replace as a dashboard lights. Tail lights can be
especially difficult in vehicles without trunks - SUVs, vans, etc. In
many cases, gone are the days of unscrewing the assembly from the
vehicle and removing the bulb. Now, interior panels and trim may have
to be removed to get to the bulb.

That's nothing. While I can do everything on the list, I was unable to
turn my headlights OFF in my 2001 GMC pickup a year after I bought it. I
was picking my young son up at the school parking parking lot after a
school ski trip. It was 12:30 a.m. and very cold out, lots of cars
waiting for their kids. Every time I started the truck to warm it up, the
lights would go on automatically, blinding the folks parked in the little
car in front of me. Nothing I did other that shut the truck off would turn
them off, so I was greatly annoying to the people in front of me.
Eventually I found out you had to have the parking brake on before the
damned lights would go out... What if I was running moonshine and wanted
to hide from the revenuers at night? Who would have thought you would
need a damned owners manual to figure out how to turn off your headlights?

Now, I'm trying to figure out how to turn on the running lights... they
must go on auto magically cause I can't get them to turn on to see which
one is out. I did learn the best way to fix your ABS brakes is to simply
pull the fuse:-)


Speaking of modern vehicles...

My wife bought a car recently. I test drove it but haven't driven it since.
I haven't had time to sit down and read the manual. I don't feel confident
without reading the manual. That damn car is smarter than me.

Shortly after buying the car, She developed some major upper back pain. I
was giving her massages nightly and we were experimenting with different
topical pain products. This went on for a week and a half. We finally
figured out that the car has some kind of adjustable lumbar support.

We figured out the secret handshake for this adjustable lumbar support. It
turns out at the original setting, it turned her shoulders down. This led
to the painful upper back. We came up with a comfortable setting for her.
And the back pains magically vanished!

We peeled a bunch of warning labels off of the car. But none of them
mentioned the consequences of a maladjusted lumbar support.

grumble, grumble, bitch, bitch

Jack Stein wrote:

I was looking at a house for my son to rent his senior year at college
and asked one of the kids moving out if he had a job lined up. He said
no, he was going to continue his education. I said you would think
after 16 years of school, and a TON of money for college he would have
finally been ready for employment...

There are plenty of occupations where 4 years of college is not enough.

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:00:48 -0400, Jim Behning
wrote:
My nephew did not have a tinkering father about. It was disappointing
when I went on a week long bicycle tour with him that he knew little
about basic bicycle tuning. He has learned a bit more in the past few
years as he has gotten even more in to bicycling. It is cool that he
is riding and racing. I like to think that his Uncle Jim that took
him off in the woods 12 years ago mountain bike riding and brought him
out looking like a beat dog had some influence on him. Come to think
of it he is not a big fan of mountain bike riding.

One of the most talented orthopedic surgeons in my area is an avid
mountain biking enthusiast, and nearly a fearless technical terrain
rider. He is also the worlds WORST bicycle mechanic.

But, boy, can he fix people! G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:10:49 -0400, B A R R Y
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:00:48 -0400, Jim Behning
wrote:
My nephew did not have a tinkering father about. It was disappointing
when I went on a week long bicycle tour with him that he knew little
about basic bicycle tuning. He has learned a bit more in the past few
years as he has gotten even more in to bicycling. It is cool that he
is riding and racing. I like to think that his Uncle Jim that took
him off in the woods 12 years ago mountain bike riding and brought him
out looking like a beat dog had some influence on him. Come to think
of it he is not a big fan of mountain bike riding.

One of the most talented orthopedic surgeons in my area is an avid
mountain biking enthusiast, and nearly a fearless technical terrain
rider. He is also the worlds WORST bicycle mechanic.

But, boy, can he fix people! G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
I hope my nephew learns a trade. I think he is about 17 years in to
his education. Fast track in college but can't leave. Working on
doctorate.

B A R R Y wrote:
Jack Stein wrote:

I was looking at a house for my son to rent his senior year at college
and asked one of the kids moving out if he had a job lined up. He
said no, he was going to continue his education. I said you would
think after 16 years of school, and a TON of money for college he
would have finally been ready for employment...

There are plenty of occupations where 4 years of college is not enough.

The interesting thing is after 16 years of education all he has learned
is how to learn. Probably still can't fix a leaky faucet, replace a
light switch, or any other myriad of things a rounded person should be
able to do in every day life, let alone a marketable skill. I can't
think of anything useful that should take 16 years of study before
actually doing something, including brain surgery.

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:52:41 -0400, Jack Stein
wrote:
I can't
think of anything useful that should take 16 years of study before
actually doing something, including brain surgery.

So, you can do brain surgery? How about a root canal?

Can you write an airtight big-business contract or litigate?

Can you formulate and run a pharmaceutical research study?

Can you teach future physicists?

I fly and bicycle with folks who have job titles like "professor",
"doctor", "scientist", and "attorney", and all of them needed more
than 16 years of school to do what they do. I also don't think any of
them pulls in less than $250,000 / year, so I'll bet they can get that
outlet replaced. G


---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 12:02pm (B*A*R*R*Y)
doth sayeth:
There are plenty of occupations where 4 years of college is not enough.

Many jobs actually only require the qualifications of an 8th grade
education - but the education level to 'get' the jobs have gradually
been increased - but with no increase in the job requiements. So you've
got college graduates holding jobs an eight grade graduate could do,
except only a college graduate would be hired for the job. I guess that
means college graduates are dumber nowadays, and the ones that don't
qualifiy for the 8th grade jobs are going into politics. Or something
like that.



JOAT
What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new
humiliations?
- Peter Egan

B A R R Y wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:52:41 -0400, Jack Stein

wrote:
I can't
think of anything useful that should take 16 years of study before
actually doing something, including brain surgery.

So, you can do brain surgery? How about a root canal?

Can you write an airtight big-business contract or litigate?

Can you formulate and run a pharmaceutical research study?

Can you teach future physicists?

None of this is really on point--the issue is not whether he can
perform some specific task, the issue is whether 16 years of education
is actually required in order to obtain the skills necessary to
perform those tasks.

Further, some of the tasks you describe depend more on experience than
on schooling. If you were up for murder, which would you rather have,
some guy who is fresh out of Harvard Law or some guy who challenged
the bar exam (which one used to be able to do in some states) and then
spent the last 20 years successfully defending accused criminals?

I fly and bicycle with folks who have job titles like "professor",
"doctor", "scientist", and "attorney", and all of them needed more
than 16 years of school to do what they do. I also don't think any
of
them pulls in less than $250,000 / year, so I'll bet they can get
that
outlet replaced. G

Well then theyr'e damned lucky, because I know a number of people with
such titles who are having a Hell of a time making ends meet.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

B A R R Y wrote in
:

*snip*


Can you write an airtight big-business contract or litigate?

*snip*

You mean it's not
$contract =~ s/Their Business/Your Business/
$contract =~ s/Their customer/Your Customer/

?

(That is replace their business with your business in the contract...)

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

B A R R Y wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:52:41 -0400, Jack Stein
wrote:

I can't
think of anything useful that should take 16 years of study before
actually doing something, including brain surgery.


So, you can do brain surgery? How about a root canal?

Can you write an airtight big-business contract or litigate?

Can you formulate and run a pharmaceutical research study?

Can you teach future physicists?

No, I only went to school for 17 years and about everything valuable I
learned outside of school. The point is after 16 years of school in the
US, you are prepared to do about nothing you would not have been able to
do with a VERY rudimentary education. Our children are spending
(wasting) unbelievable amounts of time on useless studies. More over, I
think it is bazaar that all this hours spent learning and they don't
know jack about some of the most basic things people should know, such
as replacing a light switch or fixing a leaky faucet.

I fly and bicycle with folks who have job titles like "professor",
"doctor", "scientist", and "attorney", and all of them needed more
than 16 years of school to do what they do.

That's because they pretty much wasted the first 16 years of their
education learning useless things or things that could have been learned
in FAR less time.

I also don't think any of
them pulls in less than $250,000 / year, so I'll bet they can get that
outlet replaced. G

That's sad, plenty of people pull in millions a year and never finished
college or even high school. The relationship between 16 years of
school and a few years of grad school is way out of balance I agree. Too
bad everyone is pretty much forced to waste 16 years of their life in
inferior schools learning pretty much nothing worth while or marketable,
and have to put in another 4 years at least before they can have half a
chance at getting some easy cash. Even after 20 years of school, many
professionals are still worth little until they get some real experience
under their belt, and they probably learned about 40% of what they need
in the last 4 years of school, and 50% in the next 4 years on the job.
The other 10% they learned in the first 16 years of wasted time. I
think a little less time spent conjugating verbs and a little learning
how things work and how to maintain them would be a giant improvement.

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

Jack Stein wrote in
:

*snip*

No, I only went to school for 17 years and about everything valuable I
learned outside of school. The point is after 16 years of school in
the US, you are prepared to do about nothing you would not have been
able to do with a VERY rudimentary education. Our children are
spending (wasting) unbelievable amounts of time on useless studies.
More over, I think it is bazaar that all this hours spent learning and
they don't know jack about some of the most basic things people should
know, such as replacing a light switch or fixing a leaky faucet.

That's too bad. Once I got past my 12th year I was really learning some
useful stuff. Ideal gas laws, for example... So I set the air
compressor regulator on 35 psi and blow up a tire. I know from General
Chemistry that the tire will have 35 psi in it when I'm done.

I fly and bicycle with folks who have job titles like "professor",
"doctor", "scientist", and "attorney", and all of them needed more
than 16 years of school to do what they do.

That's because they pretty much wasted the first 16 years of their
education learning useless things or things that could have been
learned in FAR less time.

Yeah... Reading, Writing (letter making, not actual writing), and how to
use a calculator.


That's sad, plenty of people pull in millions a year and never
finished college or even high school. The relationship between 16
years of school and a few years of grad school is way out of balance I
agree. Too bad everyone is pretty much forced to waste 16 years of
their life in inferior schools learning pretty much nothing worth
while or marketable, and have to put in another 4 years at least
before they can have half a chance at getting some easy cash. Even
after 20 years of school, many professionals are still worth little
until they get some real experience under their belt, and they
probably learned about 40% of what they need in the last 4 years of
school, and 50% in the next 4 years on the job. The other 10% they
learned in the first 16 years of wasted time. I think a little less
time spent conjugating verbs and a little learning how things work and
how to maintain them would be a giant improvement.

I agree that 5-12 grades is a waste of time. It's doubtful you'll have
really good schools with teachers that actually care about students
learning the material, you'll probably just simply get Wardens with
assigned drills. I was lucky, of the 4 schools I had during my 5th -
12th years, two of them were really good.

I guess part of the trouble is that most students don't want to be
there. Even the smart kids would rather be anywhere else but in this or
that pathetic class. After 8th grade, make education optional and
non-taxed (i.e. tuition based). Give students the option of where to go
and what fields to study, and they'll get a better education.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On Sep 27, 10:24 pm, Puckdropper wrote:
[snipped for brevity]

Give students the option of where to go
and what fields to study, and they'll get a better education.

If a kid wants to quit after 12 years of basic education, fine. Put
him/her in the Armend Forces for 2 years in a non-combat role. Leave
the combat to those who have made that choice for themselves. (Don't
flame me, this is a complicated issue as there is a distinction
between fighting for liberty, justice and democracy vs lining the
coffers of corporate entities.)

At the end, give them a coupon for 2 years free tuition.
If they want to go to college, at least they can make their own
farking bed, keep themselves clean, and respect authority.
For the kid that wants to go straight to college, make ROTC available
in exchange for tuition.

and bring back corporal punishment!

For some reason, parents and schools seem to omit the value of
discipline these days.

r

"Puckdropper" wrote in message

After 8th grade, make education optional and
non-taxed (i.e. tuition based). Give students the option of where to go
and what fields to study, and they'll get a better education.

I like that concept ... too bad the educrats won't buy it.

It'll threaten the pensions and benefits that are such a big part of the
cost of what is laughably referred to as "education" in most urban settings
these days.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/08/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Puckdropper" wrote in message

After 8th grade, make education optional and
non-taxed (i.e. tuition based). Give students the option of where to go
and what fields to study, and they'll get a better education.

I like that concept ... too bad the educrats won't buy it.

It'll threaten the pensions and benefits that are such a big part of the
cost of what is laughably referred to as "education" in most urban
settings these days.


It would do that indeed, but when was the last time you met a room full of
8th graders who really had any clue what they wanted to do when they grew
up? I sure as hell wouldn't want to trust the future development of this
country to the whims of 8th graders.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Puckdropper" wrote in message

After 8th grade, make education optional and
non-taxed (i.e. tuition based). Give students the option of where to
go
and what fields to study, and they'll get a better education.

I like that concept ... too bad the educrats won't buy it.

It'll threaten the pensions and benefits that are such a big part of the
cost of what is laughably referred to as "education" in most urban
settings these days.


It would do that indeed, but when was the last time you met a room full of
8th graders who really had any clue what they wanted to do when they grew
up? I sure as hell wouldn't want to trust the future development of this
country to the whims of 8th graders.

Problem is, you're effectively doing the functional equivalent of that
already.

8th grade is a good 'fork in the road' ...

Those who have the desire to continue with a classic education and go on to
college can continue on a different track without being drug down by the
shenanigans of those who have no desire to ever go to college.

Those who want to go into a trade or technical field don't have to sit
through the crap and can immediately get down to the business of learning
the skills that will eventually get them though life.

A much better solution for all concerned, including the country, IMO.

IIRC, the UK once did that (and may still do), after what was known as the
"11 plus exams", where a pupil's aptitude was determined, based on the exam
results, as to which "path" they took.

http://www.summitsat.co.uk/about-11-plus-exam.php

Living in the UK during the time, I'm still impressed by the high level of
"education", in the finest sense of the word, reached by the general
population, regardless of which "fork" they took. Even to this obtuse 20
something at the time, it was obvious that the general population far
exceeded the education level of most Americans, even back then in the 60's.

We need to do something ... this thing we call Houston Independent School
District, as in most major cities, is nothing but an urban cesspool that is
a training ground for thugs and gangs.

I just finished a long 12 years of getting a kid through the cesspool, so
it's fresh on my mind ... not to mention the $1100+ a month I pay in school
taxes to perpetuate the mediocrity and feather the nest of the educrats.

All it takes is attendance at one school board meeting to know that
"education" is NOT the point, but instead, benefits and pensions.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Puckdropper" wrote in message

After 8th grade, make education optional and
non-taxed (i.e. tuition based). Give students the option of where
to go and what fields to study, and they'll get a better education.

I like that concept ... too bad the educrats won't buy it.

It'll threaten the pensions and benefits that are such a big part of
the cost of what is laughably referred to as "education" in most
urban settings these days.


It would do that indeed, but when was the last time you met a room
full of 8th graders who really had any clue what they wanted to do
when they grew up? I sure as hell wouldn't want to trust the future
development of this country to the whims of 8th graders.


That's why your degree program is still 50% general education. You
expose the students to sciences and business, while the other half is
what they want to study. The whole point is to make school interesting
AND get rid of the people who act out because they don't want to be
there.

It's too bad that the good of the young population is sacrificed in the
pursuit of the all mighty dollar.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Swingman" wrote in
:

*snip*


I just finished a long 12 years of getting a kid through the cesspool,
so it's fresh on my mind ... not to mention the $1100+ a month I pay
in school taxes to perpetuate the mediocrity and feather the nest of
the educrats.

All it takes is attendance at one school board meeting to know that
"education" is NOT the point, but instead, benefits and pensions.


Sometimes you don't even need to go that far. Some schools get to be so
worried about it that it's well known throughout the school that they're
trying to make money.

That's why sports are so popular ($$ for admission) and the "arts"
aren't. Copyrights don't allow schools (or other groups) to charge
admission fees for performances. I guess shop classes are the same way.
Materials, parts, but rarely any income.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

In article , Jack Stein
wrote:

I can't
think of anything useful that should take 16 years of study before
actually doing something, including brain surgery.

"Twenty years of schoolin' and they put you on the day shift."

- Bob Dylan

--
Vince Heuring To email, remove the Vince.

BillinDetroit wrote in
:

10) Make adversity look like part of plan "A"


That's a skill!!

Regards

--Bob