Is there anyway to apply veneer to solid wood such that wood movement
wouldn't rip the veneer apart? I'd like to make some drawer fronts 15
x 6" that would be dovetailed out of maple, and then apply birdseye
maple veneer to the front itself (I assume solid birdseye is very
expensive and hard to work, although I haven't explored that option).

My other option is to edge band some other substrate such as maple ply
but I'd rather use solid wood if possible as I wouldn't really want to
cut dovetails through the edge banding.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Damian

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:25:55 -0700, damian penney
wrote:

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Birdseye isn't THAT expensive where a few typical drawer fronts would
kill the job. It was ~ twice the price of nice quality hard maple. On
the other hand, veneer is usually made from the ultra-nice boards we
never get a shot at as lumber, so you may find even nicer stock as
veneer.

Last summer, I did a solid birdseye king sized headboard for a maple
platform bed. If you get aggressive with a jointer or surface planer
you'll rip the eyes out.

I ended up having a local sharpening shop do a custom grind on a set
of jointer knives, which worked beautifully. He raised the angle of
the bevel and added a small back bevel. The actual angles escape me,
he chose them. I then planed the back to final thickness with my
planer, and filled any torn out eyes on the back with clear epoxy
before finishing with clear nitrocellulose lacquer.

Wanna' hear a killer? The guy who hired me to build the bed put a
massively thick Temperpedic on it and you can only see the top 5-6" of
the STUNNING headboard. G

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** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
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Using the same or similar kind of wood for both the veneer and backer, plus
keeping the grain orientation the same, in other words avoid cross grain
gluing, and you should have excellent results. Using a hardwood veneer over
a softwood backer usually results in less than satisfactory results.

Charley

"damian penney" wrote in message
ups.com...
Is there anyway to apply veneer to solid wood such that wood movement
wouldn't rip the veneer apart? I'd like to make some drawer fronts 15
x 6" that would be dovetailed out of maple, and then apply birdseye
maple veneer to the front itself (I assume solid birdseye is very
expensive and hard to work, although I haven't explored that option).

My other option is to edge band some other substrate such as maple ply
but I'd rather use solid wood if possible as I wouldn't really want to
cut dovetails through the edge banding.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Damian

On Jun 10, 8:58 am, "Charley" wrote:
Using the same or similar kind of wood for both the veneer and backer, plus
keeping the grain orientation the same, in other words avoid cross grain
gluing, and you should have excellent results. Using a hardwood veneer over
a softwood backer usually results in less than satisfactory results.

Charley


Should I use a glue with a little flex to it then? I've previously
used urea-formaldehyde resin glue which I believe forms an essentially
creep free bond; would a 'creepier' glue be a better choice say a
yellow glue?

On Jun 10, 11:58 am, "Charley" wrote:
Using the same or similar kind of wood for both the veneer and backer, plus
keeping the grain orientation the same, in other words avoid cross grain
gluing, and you should have excellent results. Using a hardwood veneer over
a softwood backer usually results in less than satisfactory results.

That's pretty much the opposite of the traditional way of veneering.
If the veneer grain runs the same direction as the backer the seasonal
movement will show up in the face veneer.

Traditionally the veneer runs across the grain of the backer. If the
backer orientation doesn't agree with the preferred veneer grain
direction, then a sub-veneer layer running cross grain to the backer
is used and then the face veneer will run cross grain to the sub-
veneer (same direction as the backer).

Essentially you're making plywood, which is the best way to deal with
seasonal movement.

R

On Jun 10, 10:43 am, B A R R Y wrote:

Wanna' hear a killer? The guy who hired me to build the bed put a
massively thick Temperpedic on it and you can only see the top 5-6" of
the STUNNING headboard. G


OUCH !!

Robert

wrote in message
On Jun 10, 10:43 am, B A R R Y wrote:

Wanna' hear a killer? The guy who hired me to build the bed put a
massively thick Temperpedic on it and you can only see the top 5-6" of
the STUNNING headboard. G


OUCH !!

Yep ... it hurts, like seeing someone routinely keeping a folded blanket on
the handrubbed, bookmatched, quilted maple lid of a blanket chest. DAMHIKT.

Might as well paint 'em ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jun 10, 11:28 am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 10, 11:58 am, "Charley" wrote:

Using the same or similar kind of wood for both the veneer and backer, plus
keeping the grain orientation the same, in other words avoid cross grain
gluing, and you should have excellent results. Using a hardwood veneer over
a softwood backer usually results in less than satisfactory results.

That's pretty much the opposite of the traditional way of veneering.
If the veneer grain runs the same direction as the backer the seasonal
movement will show up in the face veneer.

Traditionally the veneer runs across the grain of the backer. If the
backer orientation doesn't agree with the preferred veneer grain
direction, then a sub-veneer layer running cross grain to the backer
is used and then the face veneer will run cross grain to the sub-
veneer (same direction as the backer).

Essentially you're making plywood, which is the best way to deal with
seasonal movement.

R

Would two pieces of veneer one front, one back be enough to counter
the movement of a piece of solid maple if a urea formaldehyde glue is
used? (~15x6x3/4)

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:46:12 -0700, "
wrote:

On Jun 10, 10:43 am, B A R R Y wrote:

Wanna' hear a killer? The guy who hired me to build the bed put a
massively thick Temperpedic on it and you can only see the top 5-6" of
the STUNNING headboard. G


OUCH !!

It's _HIS_ bed now!

Luckily, I'll probably never see it again. We can't control what
happens once we get paid. G

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** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:25:55 -0000, damian penney
wrote:


Would two pieces of veneer one front, one back be enough to counter
the movement of a piece of solid maple if a urea formaldehyde glue is
used? (~15x6x3/4)


Both sides should always be veneered. You need to balance the
stresses.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Jun 10, 1:38 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:25:55 -0000, damian penney
wrote:

Would two pieces of veneer one front, one back be enough to counter
the movement of a piece of solid maple if a urea formaldehyde glue is
used? (~15x6x3/4)

Both sides should always be veneered. You need to balance the
stresses.

---------------------------------------------
**http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Couldn't you get away with veneering just one side on a small thickish
board though; I thought the backer veneer was mostly to counter
stresses encountered during glue up (glue contracting and what not)
which in the case of a smallish board aren't that great

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:47:48 -0000, damian penney
wrote:


Couldn't you get away with veneering just one side on a small thickish
board though; I thought the backer veneer was mostly to counter
stresses encountered during glue up (glue contracting and what not)
which in the case of a smallish board aren't that great


I wouldn't do one side, but my veneering experience is limited. If
the drawers are small, I'd just use solid birds eye maple.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

He's only putting veneer on drawer fronts and both the veneer and the drawer
front are maple. In my opinion almost any good wood glue will work as both
pieces will be expanding and contracting the same. The "plywood" methods and
veneering both sides is only necessary when big areas like side panels or
significantly different wood types are involved.

Charley

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 10, 11:58 am, "Charley" wrote:
Using the same or similar kind of wood for both the veneer and backer,
plus
keeping the grain orientation the same, in other words avoid cross grain
gluing, and you should have excellent results. Using a hardwood veneer
over
a softwood backer usually results in less than satisfactory results.

That's pretty much the opposite of the traditional way of veneering.
If the veneer grain runs the same direction as the backer the seasonal
movement will show up in the face veneer.

Traditionally the veneer runs across the grain of the backer. If the
backer orientation doesn't agree with the preferred veneer grain
direction, then a sub-veneer layer running cross grain to the backer
is used and then the face veneer will run cross grain to the sub-
veneer (same direction as the backer).

Essentially you're making plywood, which is the best way to deal with
seasonal movement.

R

I would strongly recommend that you use a cross banding, a layer of wood
between the face veneer and solid core, that runs at 90 degrees to the
direction of the face and core. This will pretty well eliminate problems
wirth the core splitting the face veneer. The typical cross banding can be
poplar or gum veneer, approximately .050" thick. Use it on both sides, like
you are making a 5 ply sandwich, with the two faces and the core (layers 1,
3 and 5) running one way, and the two crosses (layers 2 and 4) running 90
degrees opposite. Keep the panels flat after pressing, under weight, for a
few days, to keep them straight while the moisture from the glue comes out,
otherwise they might warp or twist. If you have a way to check the moisture
content of the cross and face veneers before lay-up, the ideal reading would
be about 6-1/2 to 8 % for the face and lining veneer, and around 10% for
the cross banding. Keep the construction balanced: face and lining veneer
same species and thickness, and cross banding same species and thickness, to
avoid pulling or cupping.

Babygrand

"damian penney" wrote in message
ups.com...
Is there anyway to apply veneer to solid wood such that wood movement
wouldn't rip the veneer apart? I'd like to make some drawer fronts 15
x 6" that would be dovetailed out of maple, and then apply birdseye
maple veneer to the front itself (I assume solid birdseye is very
expensive and hard to work, although I haven't explored that option).

My other option is to edge band some other substrate such as maple ply
but I'd rather use solid wood if possible as I wouldn't really want to
cut dovetails through the edge banding.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Damian

damian penney wrote in news:1181489155.378884.56670
@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com:

Is there anyway to apply veneer to solid wood such that wood movement
wouldn't rip the veneer apart? I'd like to make some drawer fronts 15
x 6" that would be dovetailed out of maple, and then apply birdseye
maple veneer to the front itself (I assume solid birdseye is very
expensive and hard to work, although I haven't explored that option).

My other option is to edge band some other substrate such as maple ply
but I'd rather use solid wood if possible as I wouldn't really want to
cut dovetails through the edge banding.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Damian


Laminate the veneer to 3/32" baltic birch plywood. That will give you lots
of stability. Then afix the baltic birch sandwich to the drawer front.
Edge band both together.

B A R R Y wrote:

I wouldn't do one side, but my veneering experience is limited. If
the drawers are small, I'd just use solid birds eye maple.


Me too. A few drawer fronts won't cost you that much. I get most of my
birdseye from this Ebay seller:

bellforestproducts

He has gorgeous stuff, and the prices aren't bad, if you're selective
and don't get over-excited when bidding. I use this wood mostly for
guitar necks and fingerboards, but some of it would make stunning drawer
fronts.

--Steve