Hi
I will need to buy myself a new router soon and would like some advice
on which way I should go. Ideally I would like to have ALL operations
done from above the table but have not seen anything that can definately
do it. The basic options as far as I can gather are that I can go two
ways; router and lift or new geneation router but I have a couple of
questions about the detail:-
With a router and lift is it possible to get enough clearance to change
the bits or would I need to modify the spanners to make then fit?
and secondly
If I go for one of the new generation routers (like the triton) can I
change the bits above the table without having to reach under the table
and switch it off and could this be overcome by adding a remote on/off
switch to the router table

Any comments welcome

Thanks
Darryl

"Darryl Tunesi" wrote in message
...
Hi
I will need to buy myself a new router soon and would like some advice on
which way I should go. Ideally I would like to have ALL operations done
from above the table but have not seen anything that can definately do it.
The basic options as far as I can gather are that I can go two ways;
router and lift or new geneation router but I have a couple of questions
about the detail:-
With a router and lift is it possible to get enough clearance to change
the bits or would I need to modify the spanners to make then fit?
and secondly
If I go for one of the new generation routers (like the triton) can I
change the bits above the table without having to reach under the table
and switch it off and could this be overcome by adding a remote on/off
switch to the router table

When I built my new table using a Woodpecker lift, I didn't even put a door
in on the undertable enclosure. Changing bits is perfectly easy. (Changing
router speed is not so easy, but you didn't ask about that...)

"Darryl Tunesi" wrote in message
...

Snip


If I go for one of the new generation routers (like the triton) can I
change the bits above the table without having to reach under the table
and switch it off and could this be overcome by adding a remote on/off
switch to the router table

NO. You can change the bit above the table with no problem however because
of the mechanical built in safety feature you cannot raise the bit beyond a
certain point/into the bit changing position with out physically switching
the power switch to the off position regardless if you use an external power
switch or not.


There are other benefits to this feature, when the bit is raised to the bit
change location the shaft self locks. In an out of table position however I
feel a 2 wrench method of changing bits would be a superior solution. IMHO
this is an area where many people feel that using a spindle lock and 1
wrench is the way to go. In reality 2 wrenches are much easier to use as
you have much more leverage in your single hand over having to grasp the
router in one hand and a wrench in another. In a router table where the
router is in a fixed location this is less of an issue. Something to think
about as far as convenience is concerned if you plan to use a router free
hand.

I must ask however what prevents you from reaching under to turn the switch
off? After a while it becomes second nature to simply feel and work the
switch.

I've been considering the Triton router as well. Leon, since you
prefer the two wrench method, which router do you suggest? I also
would like one that allows you to change bits and bit height above the
table.

Thanks,
--Michael

On Jun 6, 9:26 am, "Leon" wrote:
"Darryl Tunesi" wrote in message

...

Snip

If I go for one of the new generation routers (like the triton) can I
change the bits above the table without having to reach under the table
and switch it off and could this be overcome by adding a remote on/off
switch to the router table

NO. You can change the bit above the table with no problem however because
of the mechanical built in safety feature you cannot raise the bit beyond a
certain point/into the bit changing position with out physically switching
the power switch to the off position regardless if you use an external power
switch or not.

There are other benefits to this feature, when the bit is raised to the bit
change location the shaft self locks. In an out of table position however I
feel a 2 wrench method of changing bits would be a superior solution. IMHO
this is an area where many people feel that using a spindle lock and 1
wrench is the way to go. In reality 2 wrenches are much easier to use as
you have much more leverage in your single hand over having to grasp the
router in one hand and a wrench in another. In a router table where the
router is in a fixed location this is less of an issue. Something to think
about as far as convenience is concerned if you plan to use a router free
hand.

I must ask however what prevents you from reaching under to turn the switch
off? After a while it becomes second nature to simply feel and work the
switch.

I have a Woodpecker PRL lift and a PC7518 motor, and it's no problem
to change the bits from the top.

http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/router/

wrote in message
oups.com...
I've been considering the Triton router as well. Leon, since you
prefer the two wrench method, which router do you suggest? I also
would like one that allows you to change bits and bit height above the
table.


There are several good ones out there. I have the larger Triton and have
had it for about 3 years. It replaced a still working large Bosch plunge
router that is about 18 years old.
For under the router table I obviously like the Triton. I looked at the
large Bosch and Milwaukee closely but because of certain physical
limitations that I have, half of my left thumb is gone, I felt that the
controls on the Triton would be easier for me to handle. Again, the Triton
in the table works well for above the table bit changes.

For free hand use I use a smaller Bosch 1617 EVS router that I have had
since 1998. This was the first of it's kind back then to have the coarse
and very fine tune height adjustment. I wanted this feature for use on my
Leigh DT jig. This router however does not allow above the table bit
changes. The Bosch 11617 comes with 2 comfortable wrenches. Some wrenches
are torture devices. I steered away from the Milwaukee because at that time
there was nothing to prevent the motor from dropping out of the housing when
changing bit height if you went too far in one direction. That may have
been improved since then.
When I bought the Triton it was an Ugly Duckling and still is however it has
a lot of very nice features and it has apparently been gaining popularity
since then and especially now that it sells for almost $100 less than what I
paid, IIRC. The only improvement that I would suggest for the Triton would
be to nix the locking shaft and add a 2 wrench collet.

If this is your first router, chances are it will not be you last. Most all
wood workers have more than one, I currently have 4 including an old B&D
from 1974. I would recommend the Large Triton for the table and any of the
smaller ones for free hand use. The Bosch 1617 EVS kit would not be a bad
choice.

PC at one time was the king of routers. Their routers have a lot of nice
features however having been bought and sold a time or two in recent years
many people believe that PC is not the guarantee of quality that it used to
be. For light home use you may never know the difference.

Go do the touchy feely thing with as many routers as you can and let your
gut be the judge for the feel and location of the controls. Remember that a
router hung under a router table will have all the controls in the opposite
sides of the unit.
With that in mind, I placed my Triton upside down and with the on/off switch
on the back left side. this affords me the ability to adjust height and
apply the plunge lock lever with my right hand. Unfortunately this leaves
the speed control on the back bottom side however a mirror helps set the
speed when going to a slower speed for large bits.

"Darryl Tunesi" wrote in message
With a router and lift is it possible to get enough clearance to change
the bits or would I need to modify the spanners to make then fit?

I have a Benchdog lift and it is changed from above, all adjustments are
from above too. I'd do it again.

I have a shopmade router table with a Hitachi M12V in it. I've added a
Router Raizer and an Xtreme Xtension to it and have been happy with
both products. The Xtreme Xtension allows for above table bit changing
with the use of a single allen wrench and works with both 1/2" shank
bits and 1/4" bits with the use of a collar. The Router Raizer is very
basic but works, probably not as smoothly as some more expensive lift
devices. The power switch on my table is a rocker type switch mounted
on the side of the cabinet. The electrical outlet is at bench height
so that I can unplug the power cord when changing bits or making
adjustments.

Dale





On Jun 6, 6:29 am, Darryl Tunesi wrote:
Hi
I will need to buy myself a new router soon and would like some advice
on which way I should go. Ideally I would like to have ALL operations
done from above the table but have not seen anything that can definately
do it. The basic options as far as I can gather are that I can go two
ways; router and lift or new geneation router but I have a couple of
questions about the detail:-
With a router and lift is it possible to get enough clearance to change
the bits or would I need to modify the spanners to make then fit?
and secondly
If I go for one of the new generation routers (like the triton) can I
change the bits above the table without having to reach under the table
and switch it off and could this be overcome by adding a remote on/off
switch to the router table

Any comments welcome

Thanks
Darryl

Leon wrote:


Go do the touchy feely thing with as many routers as you can and
let your
gut be the judge for the feel and location of the controls.
Remember that a
router hung under a router table will have all the controls in the
opposite
sides of the unit.
With that in mind, I placed my Triton upside down and with the
on/off switch
on the back left side.

If you are going to the trouble of having a table, then why not add a
switch and a duplex receptacle, along with say 10 ft of cord and a plug.

Mount the switch where it is readily accessible, then plug the router
into the receptacle, turn on the router switch, plug the cord into a
power source, and get a beer.

BTW, since it is a duplex receptacle, you can plug a dust collector
into it so it operates with the router.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Leon wrote:


Go do the touchy feely thing with as many routers as you can and
let your
gut be the judge for the feel and location of the controls.
Remember that a
router hung under a router table will have all the controls in the
opposite
sides of the unit.
With that in mind, I placed my Triton upside down and with the
on/off switch
on the back left side.

If you are going to the trouble of having a table, then why not add a
switch and a duplex receptacle, along with say 10 ft of cord and a plug.

I do have an external switch for turning the router on and off but as I
previousely noted you have to use the Triton on/off switch when changing
bits. It defeats a mechanical lock that prevents raising the bit too high
and engaging the spindle lock when the router is on.



Mount the switch where it is readily accessible, then plug the router into
the receptacle, turn on the router switch, plug the cord into a power
source, and get a beer.

BTW, since it is a duplex receptacle, you can plug a dust collector into
it so it operates with the router.


Most of my receptacles are on a 15 amp circuit. I am afraid that if I
start the router and dust collector at the same time that I would trip a
breaker. If I have the router running and turn on the dust collector the
router slows down quite a bit for a few moments. If the compressor comes on
during all of this I usually trip the breaker. soooo I turn on the router
first and then the collector a couple of seconds later.

Wed, Jun 6, 2007, 9:29pm (EDT+12)
(Darryl*Tunesi) doth wonder:
Hi
I will need to buy myself a new router soon and would like some advice
on which way I should go. Ideally I would like to have ALL operations
done from above the table but have not seen anything that can definately
do it. snip

I'm always kinda amazed, or maybe that's 'dazed', by questions like
that. I solved my bit changing problems by making a new router table.
I just yank out a section of the top, router attached, change the bit,
drop it all back into place. No prob. I'm gonna have to get aound to
taking some pictures of that one of these days.



JOAT
If a man does his best, what else is there?
- General George S. Patton

Take a look Here



http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki...uterTables.pdf

Leon wrote:

I do have an external switch for turning the router on and off but
as I
previousely noted you have to use the Triton on/off switch when
changing
bits. It defeats a mechanical lock that prevents raising the bit
too high
and engaging the spindle lock when the router is on.

Ah So.

Most of my receptacles are on a 15 amp circuit. I am afraid that
if I
start the router and dust collector at the same time that I would
trip a
breaker. If I have the router running and turn on the dust
collector the
router slows down quite a bit for a few moments. If the compressor
comes on
during all of this I usually trip the breaker. soooo I turn on the
router
first and then the collector a couple of seconds later.

Talk about being electrically deprivedG.

Ever think about putting the compressor on 240V and splitting the
router and DC circuits?

Personally, can think of no good practical use for a 15A ckt these
days, when the only difference between a 15A and a 20A ckt is the wire
cost.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
link.net...
Leon wrote:


Talk about being electrically deprivedG.

Ever think about putting the compressor on 240V and splitting the router
and DC circuits?

Personally, can think of no good practical use for a 15A ckt these days,
when the only difference between a 15A and a 20A ckt is the wire cost.

Lew

My wife and I bought this house new, watched it being built late 1980 early
1981. It was going to be our starter home. Then I changed jobs and worked
very close by and had no traffic, in Houston, so we stayed a little longer,
then in 1997 we paid the house off and 10 years with no mortgage payment is
really nice. After 26 years we have learned to live in a very modest sized
home with all its limitations. That said, we have a rather large attic for
storage and our utility bills do not give us a heart attack although those
have doubled in the last 10 years/ 3 years.

Where was I, apparently in Houston 15 amp was the code and I cannot turn
back time. ;~)
Typically I do not trip a breaker. The compressor only comes on when I am
using it and I don't use it when anything else is running. Oddly I can run
my 22-44 drum sander and dust collector on the 15 amp circuit at the same
time and both supposedly require a 20 amp circuit. I do have a 20 amp
receptacle for the washing machine that I do plug into when the job is a bit
more strenuous on the sander.

All in all I probably trip a breaker once a year.

Leon wrote:

Then I changed jobs and worked
very close by and had no traffic, in Houston, so we stayed a
little longer,
then in 1997 we paid the house off and 10 years with no mortgage
payment is
really nice.

Been there, done that.

Made some sales calls on the engineering houses in Houston when the
Alaska pipeline was being engineered in the early 70s.

Not much traffic, one of the airport terminals had been built, then
mothballed due to lack of need.

Still remember a family style, all you can eat, fish house, that was a
local favorite, back then.

Never got past the oysters and the shrimpG.

10 years later, was back in Houston, what a difference.

The freeways were parking lots at 2:00AM, construction everywhere.

After 26 years we have learned to live in a very modest sized
home with all its limitations.

Can relate to that one.

That said, we have a rather large attic for
storage and our utility bills do not give us a heart attack
although those
have doubled in the last 10 years/ 3 years.

A trend that will continue.

Plan on adding some insulation, it pays for itself.

Oddly I can run
my 22-44 drum sander and dust collector on the 15 amp circuit at
the same
time and both supposedly require a 20 amp circuit.

Might want to replace that c'bkr, they do have a useful life that is
very much load dependent.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
link.net...

Made some sales calls on the engineering houses in Houston when the Alaska
pipeline was being engineered in the early 70s.

Not much traffic, one of the airport terminals had been built, then
mothballed due to lack of need.

Which airport? ;~) Bush or Hobby? Bush was Houston Intercontinental IIRC.

I moved here in the spring of 1974 with my parents. Traffic was pretty darn
bad then.


Still remember a family style, all you can eat, fish house, that was a
local favorite, back then.


That may have been Angelo's just off of the 610 Loop and Main St. That was
a large restaraunt that served all you could eat and the food was great.

Never got past the oysters and the shrimpG.

Yeah that must have been Angelo's however there was a place called the
Boston Sea Party however it did not compare.


10 years later, was back in Houston, what a difference.

The freeways were parking lots at 2:00AM, construction everywhere.

It's still that way. Although at 4:00 a.m. coming home from Swingmans house
the traffic is pretty good on a Sunday morning. LOL.

Leon wrote:


Which airport? ;~) Bush or Hobby? Bush was Houston
Intercontinental IIRC.

Back then (1970-71), it was a brand new airport and the question of
the day was, "Who the hell is Bush?"

Can't remember if the Astrodome was in existence or not.

That may have been Angelo's just off of the 610 Loop and Main St.
That was
a large restaraunt that served all you could eat and the food was
great.

Separate food and liquor waiters.

Served one course at a time.

You could have all you wanted of a course, but once you finished, that
was it, no going back.

It's still that way. Although at 4:00 a.m. coming home from
Swingmans house
the traffic is pretty good on a Sunday morning. LOL.

Same here in L/A.

There was a time there when metro Houston was in a heap of hurt, but
sounds like things have recovered nicely.



Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
link.net...


Can't remember if the Astrodome was in existence or not.

The dome was completed and opened in 1965.



That may have been Angelo's just off of the 610 Loop and Main St.
That was
a large restaraunt that served all you could eat and the food was
great.

Separate food and liquor waiters.

Served one course at a time.

Yep that sounds like Angelo's and that location I mentioned was real clost
to where the Astrodome is.


You could have all you wanted of a course, but once you finished, that was
it, no going back.

Sounds correct.
Tony Angelo died about 10 years ago and the restaraunt dissapeared
immediately. He was in debt IIRC.


It's still that way. Although at 4:00 a.m. coming home from
Swingmans house
the traffic is pretty good on a Sunday morning. LOL.

Same here in L/A.

There was a time there when metro Houston was in a heap of hurt, but
sounds like things have recovered nicely.

Economic wise? There was a slow period in the mid 80's but the economy has
been booming between 74 and now except for that period of time.
If you are talking about MTA, Metro transit authority, It still waists money
like there is not limit to funds. A few years ago a train transit system
was opened up. IIRC it has been operating since Jan of 05. I think our
past mayor got paid off big time by some one for that pink elephant.
Planning was so poor that for the first year there were weekly news reports
about the trains colliding with automobiles. Always the automobiles fault,
of course. BS. I think finally the local news coverage got tired of
reporting the accidents after 50 or 60 incidents in the first year. A non
official study was conducted and put the cost into terms the average person
could understand. The rail system cost so much that it would have been
cheaper to buy each and every rider a Ferrari instead. Now we are learning
that faulty wiring is causing electricity leakage that is damaging over
passes.

A friend gave me his old Ryobi RE600 3 hp router, when he bought a 3
1/4 hp Triton to replace it. The Ryobi had a defective speed control,
and was now a hi speed only router.

I used it for a few years in a Crapsman table that was with it.
Height adjustment was always a pain with the Ryobi plunge router.

I decided to mount a router in my TS extension table, and decided to
go with the Freud FT1700 2 1/4 hp vs router.
It has above table bit changes and above table height adjustment.
It works fine. I have it pluged into a swwitch box, mounted under the
edge of the table, to prevent accidental activation.
The switch on the router can be left on at all times.

The Triton is a nice router. I've used it a number of times, But I
couldn't justify the extra cost, for the amount of work I do. I paid
$129 for the Freud and the Triton was $214.

I also like that it comes with a 1/4" and 1/2" collets, so a bushing
is not needed for 1/4" bits.

My back likes the above table bit changes and height adjustment!

Good luck on deciding!

On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 21:29:28 +0800, Darryl Tunesi
wrote:

....
With a router and lift is it possible to get enough clearance to change
the bits
....

Yes.

I have a PC7518 in a JessEm lift and have no problems changing bits
from above the table.

I did add an Eliminator quick change chuck which makes it a little
quicker and easier and removes any need for the wrenches when changing
bits (do need a hex wrench, however). But, bits can be changed fairly
conveniently from above the table without the chuck and without
modification of the PC wrenches.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Go on then! How do you change the speed?

Toller wrote:
"Darryl Tunesi" wrote in message
...

Hi
I will need to buy myself a new router soon and would like some advice on
which way I should go. Ideally I would like to have ALL operations done
from above the table but have not seen anything that can definately do it.
The basic options as far as I can gather are that I can go two ways;
router and lift or new geneation router but I have a couple of questions
about the detail:-
With a router and lift is it possible to get enough clearance to change
the bits or would I need to modify the spanners to make then fit?
and secondly
If I go for one of the new generation routers (like the triton) can I
change the bits above the table without having to reach under the table
and switch it off and could this be overcome by adding a remote on/off
switch to the router table


When I built my new table using a Woodpecker lift, I didn't even put a door
in on the undertable enclosure. Changing bits is perfectly easy. (Changing
router speed is not so easy, but you didn't ask about that...)

Leon wrote
Snip

I must ask however what prevents you from reaching under to turn the switch
off? After a while it becomes second nature to simply feel and work the
switch.

I just think that if I'm starting from scratch ( equipment) I might
as well make it as convenient as possible from the start and also If I
can keep most (if not all) operations above the table I might be able to
enclose the lower section for dust collection.

"Darryl Tunesi" wrote in message
...


Leon wrote
Snip

I must ask however what prevents you from reaching under to turn the
switch off? After a while it becomes second nature to simply feel and
work the switch.

I just think that if I'm starting from scratch ( equipment) I might as
well make it as convenient as possible from the start and also If I can
keep most (if not all) operations above the table I might be able to
enclose the lower section for dust collection.


Well, I am glad you answered my question and ask you to consider this.
Have you ever heard that the best way to determine where to place side walks
is to not put in side walks until you see the paths that people actually
take and then add the sidewalks over those beaten paths?

While most people cite that the reason for having above table height
adjustments is so that they do not have to stoop over and reach under the
table, I have to counter with the fact that you have to stoop over to sight
and zero the bit with the top of the table to determine a starting point for
the above table adjustment anyway. Additionally, I always make adjustment
and test the results rather than rely on a measured adjustment so I really
do not want for a measuring adjustment mechanism.

With the Triton it is true you have to use the switch to be able to raise
the bit high enough to change it. You do not have to use the switch to turn
the router on and off during normal operation.

If you want to enclose the bottom for dust collection, put a door in rather
than a fixed enclosure. Keep in mind that depending on which router
operation you are performing that dust collection is not always possible.
Very often you simply cannot catch all the dust. This is especially true if
you are using a pattern bit or style bit on curved surfaces.

Most better routers these days come with electronic speed control built in.
It is recommended however that you not use an external speed control with
these routers. With that in mind, you still have to reach under and adjust
the speed if you buy a router with built in speed control. You can however
still use an external switch for turning the router on and off.

Keep in mind also that if you did already have a router and were considering
a new router or adding a router lift that the typical router lift will cost
as much if not more that a new router with the built in under table router
lift capabilities. I would rather have the extra router than the expensive
lift.

Considering all that I have mentioned, of the time you spend working with
your router you will probably only spend 1 to 2 percent of that time,
changing bits and adjusting the bit height. Whether you adjust the bit
height from above or below the time spend doing so is very minimal in many
cases compared to actually time spent routing.


Just a few things for you to consider which may or may not fall into line
with the way you are thinking.

Or you may be like me and simply want the absolute best "in some cases"
regardless of the expense to improvement ratio. :~) We all have our
priorities, I just thought I would add some observations for you to consider
in case you have not gotten that far yet.

Good luck with what ever you decide on.

"Leon" writes:
I have to counter with the fact that you have to stoop over to sight
and zero the bit with the top of the table to determine a starting
point for the above table adjustment anyway.

Um, no? I never do this, I have a dial indicator for zeroing. Even
for rough zeroing, I use a steel ruler and just lower the bit until
the ruler doesn't hit it any more.

I've never stooped at my router table. I can even reach the switch on
the router without stooping.

"DJ Delorie" wrote in message
...

"Leon" writes:
I have to counter with the fact that you have to stoop over to sight
and zero the bit with the top of the table to determine a starting
point for the above table adjustment anyway.

Um, no? I never do this, I have a dial indicator for zeroing. Even
for rough zeroing, I use a steel ruler and just lower the bit until
the ruler doesn't hit it any more.

I've never stooped at my router table. I can even reach the switch on
the router without stooping.

Well there you go. You learn something every day.

Actually, when I was making that comment I was picturing zeroing/having a
starting reference point on a bit that resembles a raised panel bit, round
over bit, Ogee bit, etc. Basically a bit that you may want to zero in at a
particular portion on the profile as a stopping point that is not at the top
or bottom of the cutting area.

Thanks for pointing out the other instance. I actually use that method
also.

Darryl:

I've tried two of the newer routers with built-in height adjustment.
The first was a Freud 1700. It was a piece of crap. If you do a
search, you can find my detailed rant about it, but in a nutshell, it
just isn't sturdy enough for daily use. When the motor failed, I sent
back under warranty. They replaced it for free, but the replacement
is just as bad as the first one. I have since bought a Milwaukee 5625
and a Woodpecker router plate. This system works much better. You do
have to reach the collet wrenches into the table at an angle, and with
larger bits, you can't really change them from above the table.
However, the router plate lifts out of the table easily enough for
those times the bit can't be changed from above.

The built-in height adjustment seems to be the weak link for most of
these newer routers. If mine fails, I'll probably buy the Woodpecker
Router Lift for my 5625 router body and be done with it. Then, I'll
get better above-table bit changes, too. Good luck.

Regards,
John.