Following on the heels of the
dovetail/Klausz threads, I've been doing
mostly nothing in the shop for a week
except make dovetails.

Not boxes. Not yet. Just two pieces of
wood that fit together in a variety of
ways. By variety, I'm referring to quality.

I had started off with the idea of
putting together one set each day,but
that doesn't seem to be working as well
as I'd hoped, and I'm settling for 2
sets every three days. I may be able to
get that up to a set per day as my speed
in making one set seems to be increasing.

Luckily for me, so is the quality.
Sorta. If I take my glasses off. And
turn the lights down a bit.

Inside a week, what have I learned?

1. Overcut the depth of pins and tails.
Not by much but make the depth just
enough so that the pins/tails run a bit
proud. Planing will clean that up later,
and it'll look a lot nicer.

2. Even though I have what I think is a
decent (not premium) dovetail saw, I
still need to clean up the kerf cuts
with a chisel. I may have to invest in a
a better saw. I have this saw:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...69&cat=1,42884

3. Making very narrow pins, while
attractive, is not a good idea for a
beginner

4. If you only "think" your chisels are
sharp, they aren't.

5. Oak makes nicer, tighter joints than
softwood.

6. The more you make of something, the
more critical you become, and therefore
the better you tend to get. (We likely
all know this to be begin with, but
sometimes it needs to be re-learned)

7. Frank need not sweat. Not yet.

Tanus
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http://users.compzone.ca/george/shop/

alexy wrote:
Tanus wrote:

2. Even though I have what I think is a
decent (not premium) dovetail saw, I
still need to clean up the kerf cuts
with a chisel. I may have to invest in a
a better saw. I have this saw:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...69&cat=1,42884

My perspective may be influenced by the fact that I use a western saw,
but it seems odd to cut dovetails with a backless saw. I usually think
of a Dozuki(sp?) for a Japanese DT saw. They say this saw is designed
for that guide or the equivalent DT guide. Are you using it with the
guide or without?



I don't have the line guide, and that
may be why I'm getting the rough cut.
I've never used a Western d/t saw, and
bought this on recommendation from LV as
a decent, but more affordable saw. My
other option is a backed backsaw, which
I may try next for comparison.

Tanus

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Tanus wrote:


I don't have the line guide, and that
may be why I'm getting the rough cut.
I doubt it. I was just wondering about the lack of a back, and if that
made the saw more likely to wander. Shouldn't affect smoothness.

I've never used a Western d/t saw, and
bought this on recommendation from LV as
a decent, but more affordable saw. My
other option is a backed backsaw,
Not sure what kind of saw you mean here. There are backed Japanese
saws, both crosscut and dovetail(rip) saws, and there are backed
western saws of various sizes and tooth patterns. Whichever route you
go, you want a rip cut.

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Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

I've never used a Western d/t saw, and
bought this on recommendation from LV as
a decent, but more affordable saw. My
other option is a backed backsaw,
Not sure what kind of saw you mean here. There are backed Japanese
saws, both crosscut and dovetail(rip) saws, and there are backed
western saws of various sizes and tooth patterns. Whichever route you
go, you want a rip cut.


I was referring to the hand miter saw
that I use in my miter box.

However, the more I think about this,
the more I'm questioning my own
technique rather than the tool. I stay
mostly along the lines I've drawn, so
it's not wandering all over the place.
But the cut is still rough. It's easily
cleaned with the chisel, but I"d rather
eliminate that step. Again, the oak cut
was better.

Tanus
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http://users.compzone.ca/george/shop/

Tanus wrote:

I was referring to the hand miter saw
that I use in my miter box.
Well, I'd imagine the miter box saw is filed crosscut, so would not be
right for the job. In his dovetail saw technique DVD, Rob Cosman shows
how poorly a hardware store "dovetail saw" (filed crosscut) cuts, then
refiles it rip pattern and it cuts far faster and smoother. And you
should check the set of your saw--you want minimal set. Not sure about
how much set a Japanese dovetail saw should have, but on my Adria, the
blade stock is .0195 thick, while measuring across the teeth, I get
..025. S0 I figure that the set is .0025 to .003" per side--pretty
tiny. With such a small set, the saw can't wander in the kerf, nor can
it vibrate side to side, which would be one cause for a rough cut.

However, the more I think about this,
the more I'm questioning my own
technique rather than the tool.

I had a hard time learning to use a relaxed grip (like holding a live
bird or a baby's hand, firm enough to control but not tight enough to
hurt) and letting the saw do the work rather than trying to press down
to get through in fewer strokes.
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alexy wrote:
Tanus wrote:

I was referring to the hand miter saw
that I use in my miter box.
Well, I'd imagine the miter box saw is filed crosscut, so would not be
right for the job. In his dovetail saw technique DVD, Rob Cosman shows
how poorly a hardware store "dovetail saw" (filed crosscut) cuts, then
refiles it rip pattern and it cuts far faster and smoother. And you
should check the set of your saw--you want minimal set. Not sure about
how much set a Japanese dovetail saw should have, but on my Adria, the
blade stock is .0195 thick, while measuring across the teeth, I get
..025. S0 I figure that the set is .0025 to .003" per side--pretty
tiny. With such a small set, the saw can't wander in the kerf, nor can
it vibrate side to side, which would be one cause for a rough cut.
However, the more I think about this,
the more I'm questioning my own
technique rather than the tool.

I had a hard time learning to use a relaxed grip (like holding a live
bird or a baby's hand, firm enough to control but not tight enough to
hurt) and letting the saw do the work rather than trying to press down
to get through in fewer strokes.

Interestingly enough, as you were
writing that, I was out in the shop
trying to accomplish just that - the
relaxed grip.

I figured the saw was probably ok, and
it was me. So I relaxed the grip, slowed
way down and as you say, 'let the saw do
the work.'

From the LV site: "The 2" x 8-1/2"
blade has 22 tpi and 0.005" of tooth
set. The dozuki tooth form is effective
in both crosscuts and rip cuts." I think
that's close to what your Adria is,
although I don't have a measurement on
the thickness of the blade.

The kerfs are much smoother now, but
still need some improvement. That's ok,
cause now I know what to correct.

Even with slowing down, my time/set is
decreasing, which I like.

Plus, the joints are getting
progressively better.

Tanus

--
This is not really a sig.

http://users.compzone.ca/george/shop/

Tanus wrote:
Following on the heels of the
dovetail/Klausz threads, I've been doing
mostly nothing in the shop for a week
except make dovetails.

Not boxes. Not yet. Just two pieces of
wood that fit together in a variety of
ways. By variety, I'm referring to quality.

After recently learning how to cut dovetails, I tried to cut out a
dovetail a day in some scrap to practice and gain proficiency. I
couldn't do it. It's not that I wasn't able to, but after doing
it one day and getting two pieces of wood joined together at 90
degrees--I released I had just spent a fair amount of time creating
a totally useless object. I do realize that the main point of doing
something like this is the experience, not what you wind up with.
But I just really hate doing "busy work". Likewise, the whole
concept of "working out", to my mind, is pointless. Instead I go
do stuff so that I'm getting something useful done and exercising.

So, instead of cutting out a dovetail a day in some scrap, after
which I'd have a useless object, I instead started making little
boxes with dovetail joints. Some of those boxes didn't come out
so great, some were just okay, but after doing a few the dovetails
did get better and the results improved. But even the crappy boxes
were still useful, if for nothing else than something to put stray
screws into.

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remove ".invalid".

Get thee one of thos 70 degree side bevel chisels
( 1/8" or 3 mm) and ONE of the joint fit pitfalls
can be greatly reduced or eliminated - the bottom
corners of the sockets. Normal bevel edged bench
chisels won't get back in those corners.

charlie b

Michael Faurot wrote:


After recently learning how to cut dovetails, I tried to cut out a
dovetail a day in some scrap to practice and gain proficiency. I
couldn't do it. It's not that I wasn't able to, but after doing
it one day and getting two pieces of wood joined together at 90
degrees--I released I had just spent a fair amount of time creating
a totally useless object. I do realize that the main point of doing
something like this is the experience, not what you wind up with.
But I just really hate doing "busy work". Likewise, the whole
concept of "working out", to my mind, is pointless. Instead I go
do stuff so that I'm getting something useful done and exercising.

So, instead of cutting out a dovetail a day in some scrap, after
which I'd have a useless object, I instead started making little
boxes with dovetail joints. Some of those boxes didn't come out
so great, some were just okay, but after doing a few the dovetails
did get better and the results improved. But even the crappy boxes
were still useful, if for nothing else than something to put stray
screws into.


I guess it's all in you look at it. I
don't see my joints as useless, cause
they go up on a shelf with my
observations put on them with a Sharpie.
From a purely functional or practical
standpoint, they are just two pieces of
wood that are held together by
themselves, so they're pretty useless
that way.

But I see them as a record of how
progress is made. In time, they'll end
up in the kindling box, but for now
they're spurring me on to make better
joints. YMMV

Tanus

--
This is not really a sig.

http://users.compzone.ca/george/shop/

charlieb wrote:
Get thee one of thos 70 degree side bevel chisels
( 1/8" or 3 mm) and ONE of the joint fit pitfalls
can be greatly reduced or eliminated - the bottom
corners of the sockets. Normal bevel edged bench
chisels won't get back in those corners.

charlie b

I'll look for one. I like that idea.
Thanks charlie.

Tanus

--
This is not really a sig.

http://users.compzone.ca/george/shop/