I have a PC 23 ga. pin nailer on order from Amazon. Now wondering if
I should have ordered the Cadex which, in some models, shoots up 1
9/16 whereas PC is limited to 1 inch.

In any case I am trying to find a source for stainless nails since I
am going to use them to pin teak trim on a boat and need nails that
will resist the unfriendly environment of the sea.

There is one outfit that sells SS nails called Floydtools.com. They
package them in boxes of 10,000 at prices from $46 to over $100. In
order to get the assortment I need I would have have had to spend over
$300. So, I emailed this company the following:

"You are losing sales because you only package stainless steel 23 ga.
nails in large lots. There are thousands of boat owners and small
boat yards who would use your nails if you packaged them in smaller
lots, especially if you created a package consisting of various
lengths. I am just not ready to pay $68 for thousands of more nails
than I can use. I might pay that much for a selection of various
sizes."

The smart-assed merchant wrote back:

"This is a great opportunity for a sharp businessman like yourself to
make some money. Let us know when we can buy the assortment packs
from you."

Hey! How's that for customer service?

The funny part is that before I received his sarcastic response I was
ready to cancel my Amazon order and buy one of his Cadex guns.

Anyone here know of another source for SS 23 ga. nails?

Thanks,

Joe

wrote:


In any case I am trying to find a source for stainless nails since I
am going to use them to pin teak trim on a boat and need nails that
will resist the unfriendly environment of the sea.

Tells me all I need to know about the quality of your craftsmanship.

Lew

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:49:49 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

wrote:


Tells me all I need to know about the quality of your craftsmanship.

Lew

Are the attendants at the psych hospital letting you play on the
computer again tonight?

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:44:44 GMT, ROY! wrote:


Your smart assed email got the smart assed response it deserved.

Did I rattle your cage?

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:49:49 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

wrote:


In any case I am trying to find a source for stainless nails since I
am going to use them to pin teak trim on a boat and need nails that
will resist the unfriendly environment of the sea.

Tells me all I need to know about the quality of your craftsmanship.

Lew

Well, I guess I just don't get it. What does using 23 ga. pin nails
to fasten a piece of 1/4" solid teak trim to 1/2" plywood have to do
with craftsmanship?

I am not exactly conceited and I don't believe I am too old to learn
so please tell me how you would do it. Would you 18 ga. nails and
risk splitting at the ends of the 1/4 stock followed by filling all
the 18 ga. holes? Or, would you have me use a fostner bit and drill
1/16th holes, followed by No. 3 screws, followed by plugging the holes
with 1/32" plugs? Or, perhaps you would simply stick the trim on with
contact cement or double-sided tape? Or maybe you would go pump some
epoxy out of your 55-gal. drum, clean the teak with acetone, add some
cabosil and use spring clamps while the epoxy set up?

Don't just be a smart ass. Spread some of your infinite knowledge
around and tell us exactly how you would go about it. Some of us
might learn something that way.

You should know what your are talking about before trying to diminish
someone else's craftsmanship. From your posts I would guess you play
around with boats. Well, so do I and I've been doing it for a very
long time but gosh, I can still learn.

The word is put up or shut up.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:44:44 GMT, ROY! wrote:



Your smart assed email got the smart assed response it deserved.


ROY! You are a bigger ass hole than I at first supposed. Just a
little perusing on the web indicates that you are more than likely the
smart-ass who wrote the dim-witted response to my inquiry.

You are either a dumb-assed clerk at the struggling nail-peddler
website or you own the two-bit operation. Either way you are clearly
a twit.

The smart-assed merchant wrote back:

"This is a great opportunity for a sharp businessman like yourself to
make some money. Let us know when we can buy the assortment packs
from you."

Hey! How's that for customer service?

I used to be in customer service for a hardware manufacturer. I got about
20 letters or phone calls each week wanting to buy small quantities
directly; and I always explained that we only sold through hardware stores.
It was extraordinarily frustrating when people would argue with me for 20
minutes that I had to sell to them directly. I even hung up on a few people
who started swearing at me. But I never answered sarcastically.

That man is certainly should not be working in customer service. But you
should understand that they simply don't want to sell small quantities,
certainly they have considered and rejected the possibility.

Somebody wrote:

Well, I guess I just don't get it.

Nails are used in houses and NYW furniture, NOT boats, at least not on
my boats.

Lew

As I read your posting, I was thinking the same thing as the
vendor. You see the business opportunity. You know the
market. They don't. Run with it. Or pay the $ 300 to get
what you need.

wrote:

There is one outfit that sells SS nails called Floydtools.com. They
package them in boxes of 10,000 at prices from $46 to over $100. In
order to get the assortment I need I would have have had to spend over
$300. So, I emailed this company the following:

"You are losing sales because you only package stainless steel 23 ga.
nails in large lots. There are thousands of boat owners and small
boat yards who would use your nails if you packaged them in smaller
lots, especially if you created a package consisting of various
lengths. I am just not ready to pay $68 for thousands of more nails
than I can use. I might pay that much for a selection of various
sizes."

The smart-assed merchant wrote back:

"This is a great opportunity for a sharp businessman like yourself to
make some money. Let us know when we can buy the assortment packs
from you."

Hey! How's that for customer service?

wrote in message
...
Snip


"You are losing sales because you only package stainless steel 23 ga.
nails in large lots. There are thousands of boat owners and small
boat yards who would use your nails if you packaged them in smaller
lots, especially if you created a package consisting of various
lengths. I am just not ready to pay $68 for thousands of more nails
than I can use. I might pay that much for a selection of various
sizes."



Some sales are not worth having and therefore the package is not packaged
for those sales. When you get into low dollar items the sale become much
less important. And then you have the customer that will complain about the
$8.00 shipping for a $10 box of nails.

On Mar 13, 3:40 pm, Mike Berger wrote:
As I read your posting, I was thinking the same thing as the
vendor. You see the business opportunity. You know the
market. They don't. Run with it. Or pay the $ 300 to get
what you need.

Or buy from someone else.

--

FF

On Mar 13, 2:07 am, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Somebody wrote:
Well, I guess I just don't get it.

Nails are used in houses and NYW furniture, NOT boats, at least not on
my boats.

Lew

Looked at your web pages, and couldn't see any pictures of
woodworking.
Why not show us pics of your boat woodworking. Isn't it possible to
tack
wooden molding around the cooker cabinet, etc. while the waterproof
glue
dries? Please show us your work!

wrote:


Looked at your web pages, and couldn't see any pictures of
woodworking.
Why not show us pics of your boat woodworking. Isn't it possible to
tack
wooden molding around the cooker cabinet, etc. while the waterproof
glue
dries?

Woodworking as in fine finish work is probably less than 20% of
building a boat; however, you cut a lot of wood for forms, bulkhead
cores, molds, etc.

Don't have any finished wood work pictures since it hasn't been done yet.

As far as fasteners are concerned, about the only place for nails is
in some parts of wooden hull construction where copper nails with
roves are sometimes used.

As far as attaching moldings on a boat is concerned, it is no
different that attaching a sheet of say 1/4" Corian to a vertical
wall on land.

Strictly spring clamps from over length pieces of wood and adhesive.

If fasteners are used, then it is bronze below the water line for
exterior work and either bronze or S/S with bungs for interior work.

If S/S, my preference is for coarse thread, self tapping sheet metal
screws, hopefully 316, not 18-8, AKA: 304 unless there is no other choice.

The operate words in stainless are "stain" and "less".

Salt water wins every time, that's why bronze.

HTH

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
wrote:


Looked at your web pages, and couldn't see any pictures of
woodworking.
Why not show us pics of your boat woodworking. Isn't it possible to
tack
wooden molding around the cooker cabinet, etc. while the waterproof
glue
dries?

Woodworking as in fine finish work is probably less than 20% of building
a boat; however, you cut a lot of wood for forms, bulkhead cores, molds,
etc.

Don't have any finished wood work pictures since it hasn't been done yet.

As far as fasteners are concerned, about the only place for nails is in
some parts of wooden hull construction where copper nails with roves are
sometimes used.

As far as attaching moldings on a boat is concerned, it is no different
that attaching a sheet of say 1/4" Corian to a vertical wall on land.

Strictly spring clamps from over length pieces of wood and adhesive.

If fasteners are used, then it is bronze below the water line for
exterior work and either bronze or S/S with bungs for interior work.

If S/S, my preference is for coarse thread, self tapping sheet metal
screws, hopefully 316, not 18-8, AKA: 304 unless there is no other choice.

The operate words in stainless are "stain" and "less".

Salt water wins every time, that's why bronze.

HTH

Lew


I, for one, like the way Lew is handling this.

Tanus

--
This is not really a sig.

http://users.compzone.ca/george/shop/

On Mar 13, 9:14 pm, Tanus wrote:


I, for one, like the way Lew is handling this.

Tanus

It was The Vibe Lew picked up during his stay in Sarnia... that is
what makes him so cool.

G

r

Lew Hodgett wrote:


Woodworking as in fine finish work is probably less than 20% of
building
a boat; however, you cut a lot of wood for forms, bulkhead cores,
molds,
etc.

Forgot to mention that to date have used two (2) units, that is 140,
4x8 sheets of 4 ply, 1/2" (12mm), CDX plywood.

It has all been used as core material for floors, bulkheads, and sub
soles, being covered with about 50 OZ of knitted glass and epoxy.

Gallons of TiteBond II, thousands of deck screws also got used joining
sheets together to form nominal 1" cores.

Gave that 18VDC DeWalt drill a real workout.

Lew



Lew

Robatoy wrote:

It was The Vibe Lew picked up during his stay in Sarnia... that is
what makes him so cool.

Don't let him kid you, those crazy Canucks at the Sarnia YC are at
least a quart low.

Fun bunch.

Anything I did there was a matter of self preservationG.


Lew

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:34:55 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

If fasteners are used, then it is bronze below the water line for
exterior work and either bronze or S/S with bungs for interior work.


(We are talking about fastening 1/4" thick x 1/2" wide teak molding
to a 1/2" teak plywood vertical surface)

HERE IS THE QUESTION TO YOU I POSTED IN AN EARLIER THREAD:

Would you use18 ga. nails and risk splitting at the ends of the 1/4
stock and follow this by filling all the 18 ga. holes with filler? Or,
would you have me use a fostner bit and drill 1/16th" deep holes
(Think about that--I said 1/16th deep holes (bung holes if you
prefer), followed by No. 3 screws, followed by plugging the (bung)
holes with 1/32" thick plugs? (Think about that one, Lew, I said
1/32" thick plugs--hope you got that) Or, perhaps you would simply
stick the trim on with contact cement or double-sided tape? Or maybe
you would go pump some epoxy out of your 55-gal. drum, clean the teak
with acetone, add some cabosil and use spring clamps (actually spring
boards because I can't get a clamp where they go) while the epoxy
sets up?

You don't have to be a boat joiner to figure this one out. Any
half-assed cabinet maker can answer it. You put some Titebond III,
epoxy or resourcinol glue on the trim. You then fix the trim to the
plywood in one of several ways, i.e., you use a spring board to apply
pressure while the glue dries (no way of getting any type of clamp on
the trim--that's why I say spring board--you do understand the
difference, right?), or you use some type of mechanical fastener,
i.e., screw, nails, thru bolt, or you use contact cement (poor
craftsmanship in this case), OR YOU DO EXACTLY WHAT I SAID AT THE
BEGINNING (which you gratutiously ridiculed as poor craftsmanship) YOU
NAIL THE DAMNED THING. YES! NAIL. YES, LEW THERE ARE CASES WHERE
NAILS ARE USED IN BOAT JOINERY. In my case I prefer to use 23 ga. pins
and I did specifically say stainless. And that is where you came in
with your half-assed attempt to ridicule what I was doing. Now if you
think that what I have outlined as a way to attach 1/4"-thick trim to
a vertical surface is poor craftsmanship (or poor boat joinery) my
only response is you don't know **** about woodwork or boat joinery.

Watch out for those fumes, Lew. Those LPUs will really make you say
stupid things in public forums.

wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:34:55 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

If fasteners are used, then it is bronze below the water line for
exterior work and either bronze or S/S with bungs for interior work.


(We are talking about fastening 1/4" thick x 1/2" wide teak molding
to a 1/2" teak plywood vertical surface)

HERE IS THE QUESTION TO YOU I POSTED IN AN EARLIER THREAD:

Would you use18 ga. nails and risk splitting at the ends of the 1/4
stock and follow this by filling all the 18 ga. holes with filler? Or,
would you have me use a fostner bit and drill 1/16th" deep holes
(Think about that--I said 1/16th deep holes (bung holes if you
prefer), followed by No. 3 screws, followed by plugging the (bung)
holes with 1/32" thick plugs? (Think about that one, Lew, I said
1/32" thick plugs--hope you got that) Or, perhaps you would simply
stick the trim on with contact cement or double-sided tape? Or maybe
you would go pump some epoxy out of your 55-gal. drum, clean the teak
with acetone, add some cabosil and use spring clamps (actually spring
boards because I can't get a clamp where they go) while the epoxy
sets up?

You don't have to be a boat joiner to figure this one out. Any
half-assed cabinet maker can answer it. You put some Titebond III,
epoxy or resourcinol glue on the trim. You then fix the trim to the
plywood in one of several ways, i.e., you use a spring board to apply
pressure while the glue dries (no way of getting any type of clamp on
the trim--that's why I say spring board--you do understand the
difference, right?), or you use some type of mechanical fastener,
i.e., screw, nails, thru bolt, or you use contact cement (poor
craftsmanship in this case), OR YOU DO EXACTLY WHAT I SAID AT THE
BEGINNING (which you gratutiously ridiculed as poor craftsmanship) YOU
NAIL THE DAMNED THING. YES! NAIL. YES, LEW THERE ARE CASES WHERE
NAILS ARE USED IN BOAT JOINERY. In my case I prefer to use 23 ga. pins
and I did specifically say stainless. And that is where you came in
with your half-assed attempt to ridicule what I was doing. Now if you
think that what I have outlined as a way to attach 1/4"-thick trim to
a vertical surface is poor craftsmanship (or poor boat joinery) my
only response is you don't know **** about woodwork or boat joinery.

Watch out for those fumes, Lew. Those LPUs will really make you say
stupid things in public forums.

And so two new religions are borne.

Earth to the lot of you, it's a freaking piece of molding. DO WHATEVER
THE HELL WORKS FOR YOU, don't agonize over there being a "right" or
"wrong" way to do it. What's the worst that can happen?

I'd much rather the builder of any boat that I was trusting with _my_
life be agonizing over how to hold the planking to the frames than over
how to hold a piece of trim in place.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:38:51 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

SNIP

I'd much rather the builder of any boat that I was trusting with _my_
life be agonizing over how to hold the planking to the frames than over
how to hold a piece of trim in place.

--
Ah, for a boat with planking held to frames.

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 05:51:05 GMT, ROY! wrote:

snip

Nope, you sure don't.
A little effort on your part would have turned up this offering:
http://thefastenercompany.com/23_ga_...less_steel.htm

You're welcome.


Thank you, ROY!

On Mar 12, 5:24 pm, wrote:
"This is a great opportunity for a sharp businessman like yourself to
make some money. Let us know when we can buy the assortment packs
from you."

Hey! How's that for customer service?

Yeah, it was a rude response, but at the volume he does, do you really
expect him to be worried about losing a $68 sale? Your email had a
hostile tone about it, and was accusing him of basically being
clueless.

I hope you find your nails from another source. Actually, if it was
me, I'd try to find one other boat builder and split the cost. $34 for
a lifetime's worth of 23 guage nails is a pretty good deal.