I've spent the last couple of days looking at posts in this group and
am more confused then when I started. I am at the finishing stages of
a poker table project I'm building for my son. First of all, my
woodworking experience is limited to 15 or 16 Jake chairs, some of you
may know them, and their accompanying footstools. So, I am pretty
adept at the "carpentry" part of the project. The finishing is where
I am confused.
My plan was to use a pre-stain conditioner (pine), stain, sand,
polyurethane (Miniwax Gloss), sand, clean and repeat the finish part.
Here's where I am confused. First of all, it appears I should have
used a lacquer finish from what I've read. Too late. I've read to
use the polyurethane as is or dilute it. I've read to wait the amount
of time on the labe (3-4 hours), or wait longer (a week)for it to
"cure"before applying the next coat. I've read I should rub the
finish on or brush it on or foam brush it on. Then, lightly sand it
with sandpaper, or steel wool or Scotch pads. Then, use a tack rag,
or mineral spirits. YIKES.
I ended up applying the first coat of polyurethane with a brush, and
waited about 10 hours. I then used steel wool but didn't like that so
lightly sanded with a very fine sanding block. I then used a tack rag
to clean the residue and applied a second coat with a brush which I am
now waiting to dry.
Any suggestions? I really like the look after first applying the
finish but when it dries, it dries not at the sheen I was hoping for.
I've thought about applying a wax after two or three more coats of
polyurethane. Ideas on that?
Thanks to all for any help. This is my first such project so I've
expected some problems but hope to learn from them for the next one.
You know how it is, someone will play cards on the table and want one.

On Feb 27, 5:09 pm, "rile" wrote:
I've spent the last couple of days looking at posts in this group and
am more confused then when I started.

That wouldn't be hard - there is a lot of misinformation out there,
and a lot of different opinions that might or might not make a
difference in the finished product. My main recommendation would be
to buy a good finishing book - I have Bob Flexner's "Understanding
Wood Finishing", which is very good. I especially like his easy-to-
understand descriptions of finish chemistry, and explanations of WHY
you do or don't need to do certain things. Highly recommended, though
I've also heard good things about Jeff Jewitt's finishing book, and I
think Taunton has a finishing book too, and most of their stuff is
very good. Whichever book you get should remove a lot of the
"mystery" from finishing.

I ended up applying the first coat of polyurethane with a brush, and
waited about 10 hours. I then used steel wool but didn't like that so
lightly sanded with a very fine sanding block. I then used a tack rag
to clean the residue and applied a second coat with a brush which I am
now waiting to dry.
Any suggestions?

Sounds like you're on the right track to me. If the poly has cured,
you do need to sand or somehow rough up the previous coat lightly, so
the next coat has something to "grab" on to, and sanding knocks down
any dust nibs also. If you want the finish to be thinner, so it flows
better or dries faster, you can add some mineral spirits (unless it's
H2O based) in whatever ratio you like - but of course these thinner
coats won't build as fast. If you want it to be less glossy, wait for
it to cure completely (a few days at least) and you can rub it with
steel wool or ultra-fine sandpaper. I do like the look of paste wax
after sanding lightly with maybe 400 grit - nice shine without being
too glossy. There are a variety of rubbing compounds and other things
you can do to "finish the finish" - but I'll let you read about those
in your new finishing book.

Good luck,
Andy

On Feb 27, 6:14 pm, "Andy" wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:09 pm, "rile" wrote:

I've spent the last couple of days looking at posts in this group and
am more confused then when I started.

That wouldn't be hard - there is a lot of misinformation out there,
and a lot of different opinions that might or might not make a
difference in the finished product. My main recommendation would be
to buy a good finishing book - I have Bob Flexner's "Understanding
Wood Finishing", which is very good. I especially like his easy-to-
understand descriptions of finish chemistry, and explanations of WHY
you do or don't need to do certain things. Highly recommended, though
I've also heard good things about Jeff Jewitt's finishing book, and I
think Taunton has a finishing book too, and most of their stuff is
very good. Whichever book you get should remove a lot of the
"mystery" from finishing.

I ended up applying the first coat of polyurethane with a brush, and
waited about 10 hours. I then used steel wool but didn't like that so
lightly sanded with a very fine sanding block. I then used a tack rag
to clean the residue and applied a second coat with a brush which I am
now waiting to dry.
Any suggestions?

Sounds like you're on the right track to me. If the poly has cured,
you do need to sand or somehow rough up the previous coat lightly, so
the next coat has something to "grab" on to, and sanding knocks down
any dust nibs also. If you want the finish to be thinner, so it flows
better or dries faster, you can add some mineral spirits (unless it's
H2O based) in whatever ratio you like - but of course these thinner
coats won't build as fast. If you want it to be less glossy, wait for
it to cure completely (a few days at least) and you can rub it with
steel wool or ultra-fine sandpaper. I do like the look of paste wax
after sanding lightly with maybe 400 grit - nice shine without being
too glossy. There are a variety of rubbing compounds and other things
you can do to "finish the finish" - but I'll let you read about those
in your new finishing book.

Good luck,
Andy

Thanks for the info on the finishing books. If fact, I had gone to
the library today and got a book on finishing. Unfortunately, I'm not
sure I'm ready for some of the things in it.
You did mention about paste wax. I've read where some people use car
wax. I'm wondering if the car wax and or rubbing compounds well
adhere to the polyurethane. Again, thanks for the help.

rile wrote:

I've read to
wait the amount of time on the labe (3-4 hours), or wait longer (a
week)for it to "cure"before applying the next coat.

If you wait MORE than 3-4 hours to recoat THEN the first coat should
be lightly sanded to provide a tooth for the next coat....no need to
wait a week, just long enough (overnight is fine) to get hard enough
to be sandable.
_______________

Any suggestions? I really like the look after first applying the
finish but when it dries, it dries not at the sheen I was hoping
for.

When it's wet, it is glossy. Is that what you want? Did you buy
glossy? It is available in sheens from matte to glossy.
________________

I've thought about applying a wax after two or three more
coats of polyurethane. Ideas on that?

You'd be better off using poly with the sheen you want.

Lots of people don't like high gloss finishes, especially the "poly
plastic" one. They rub down the surface with whatever (frequently
#0000 steel wool) and then wax. That gives a satin smooth surface
with a nice but not brilliant shine.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

So, I am pretty
adept at the "carpentry" part of the project. The finishing is where
I am confused.

This is normal. It takes alot of experimenting with finishing to get a good
feel for what works and what doesn't.

First of all, it appears I should have
used a lacquer finish from what I've read.

Nonsense, laquer may be optimal for some circumstances, but ig you are not
set up to spray it, you probably don't want to go threre anyway. Poly is
just fine.

I've read to
use the polyurethane as is or dilute it.

A general rule for just about all finishes... the more you put on in a coat
the bigger the errors (drips, runs, brush marks). IME, Full strength poly is
just too goopy to lay down with a brush. It you thin the poly (20% give or
take... not rocket science) you will be able to put on less and it will
flow out more easily.

You *Will* need more coats for the same build.

I've read to wait the amount
of time on the labe (3-4 hours), or wait longer (a week)for it to
"cure"before applying the next coat.
....
Any suggestions?


1) set aside 2 weeks for finnishing... get used to it. If you rush it
quality will almost always suffer. Chill; expect it to take some time.

2) Although cured poly needs to be roughed up for adhesion of a second layer
there is another reason to do it: dus nubs. You are probably not going to
sand out a drip but you can eliminate minor dust pickies or raised grain. It
just takes a lite touch and a quick wipe-down wieth fine sandpaper. This
works better as the finish is more cured (crunchy, less plasticy). Wait an
extra day; chill.

3) 4 thin coats always looks better that 2 thick ones. The expectation that
2 coats of just about anything is going to give you a consistent quality
finish is unreasonable. If you lay on finish thick enough to get even
coverage in 2 coats, it's going to be gloppy.

Patience... it's mostly just waiting.

Good luck,

Steve





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Stephen M wrote:

First of all, it appears I should have
used a lacquer finish from what I've read.

Nonsense, laquer may be optimal for some circumstances, but ig you are not
set up to spray it, you probably don't want to go threre anyway. Poly is
just fine.

Lacquer dries so fast the brush marks don't have time to level. You
have to spray lacquer to get good results. If you have spray gear,
lacquer is great, but it won't brush on.


David Starr

David Starr wrote:
Stephen M wrote:

First of all, it appears I should have
used a lacquer finish from what I've read.

Nonsense, laquer may be optimal for some circumstances, but ig you
are not set up to spray it, you probably don't want to go threre
anyway. Poly is just fine.

Lacquer dries so fast the brush marks don't have time to level.
You have to spray lacquer to get good results. If you have spray
gear, lacquer is great, but it won't brush on.

Depends on the kind you use. There are lacquers made especially for
brushing (Deft, eg) and they work just fine.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Remember the guy's original statement about confusion ???
This remains a problem even in this thread.

dadiOH wrote:


First of all, it appears I should have
used a lacquer finish from what I've read.

Nonsense, laquer may be optimal for some circumstances, but ig you
are not set up to spray it, you probably don't want to go threre
anyway. Poly is just fine.


Depends on the kind you use. There are lacquers made especially for
brushing (Deft, eg) and they work just fine.

On Feb 28, 5:43 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
rile wrote:
I've read to
wait the amount of time on the labe (3-4 hours), or wait longer (a
week)for it to "cure"before applying the next coat.

If you wait MORE than 3-4 hours to recoat THEN the first coat should
be lightly sanded to provide a tooth for the next coat....no need to
wait a week, just long enough (overnight is fine) to get hard enough
to be sandable.
_______________

Any suggestions? I really like the look after first applying the
finish but when it dries, it dries not at the sheen I was hoping
for.

When it's wet, it is glossy. Is that what you want? Did you buy
glossy? It is available in sheens from matte to glossy.
________________

I've thought about applying a wax after two or three more
coats ofpolyurethane. Ideas on that?

You'd be better off using poly with the sheen you want.

Lots of people don't like high gloss finishes, especially the "poly
plastic" one. They rub down the surface with whatever (frequently
#0000 steel wool) and then wax. That gives a satin smooth surface
with a nice but not brilliant shine.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

I've just applied the fourth coat of polyurethane and have the shine I
like. Is it OK to just leave that coat as it is....don't steel wool
it or sand it?

rile wrote:
I've just applied the fourth coat of polyurethane and have the
shine I like. Is it OK to just leave that coat as it is....don't
steel wool it or sand it?

Sure is.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

I've just applied the fourth coat of polyurethane and have the shine I
like. Is it OK to just leave that coat as it is....don't steel wool
it or sand it?

Absolutely. If you like it, leave it. The only reason to sand/wool is to
either level the finish (abrade off imperfections) or to modify the sheen.

-Steve



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 2:09pm (EST-3) (rile) doth
confuedly query:
I've spent the last couple of days looking at posts in this group and am
more confused then when I started. I am at the finishing stages of a
poker table project I'm building for my son. snip

You're going about this all the wrong way. Finish working on the
table, give it to your son and let him worry about the final finish.
LOL

I'd just go with a finish I liked. I use water base poly rather
than oil base. I've used cooking oil (unused) with nice results. Paste
wax works - I'd use floor wax, not car wax. Shellac, varnish, work
well. You can get custom colors using very thinned latex paint as a
satin. Get what you want, read the instructions on the can, call the
1-800 number if you have questions.

I hope you used green felt, any other color just wouldn't be right.



JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small