Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm
|
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Lobby Dosser wrote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm Just for the fun of it ... does anyone know where I could get a map showing those new coast lines? I might want to invest in some beachfront property in Wyoming. ;-) Bill -- I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a **** unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about. H. P. Lovecraft --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000716-3, 02/23/2007 Tested on: 2/25/2007 1:08:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Bill in Detroit wrote:
Lobby Dosser wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm Just for the fun of it ... does anyone know where I could get a map showing those new coast lines? I might want to invest in some beachfront property in Wyoming. ;-) Bill http://www.geo.arizona.edu/dgesl/res...ge_and_sea_lev el/sea_level_rise/sea_level_rise.htm |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Lobby Dosser wrote:
Bill in Detroit wrote: Lobby Dosser wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm Just for the fun of it ... does anyone know where I could get a map showing those new coast lines? I might want to invest in some beachfront property in Wyoming. ;-) Bill http://www.geo.arizona.edu/dgesl/res...ge_and_sea_lev el/sea_level_rise/sea_level_rise.htm That's a good start but it maxes out at 6 meters worth of rise. I was hoping to get a look at the effect of a 61 meter (200 ft) rise. So far, Google is teasing but not delivering the goods. Bill -- I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a **** unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about. H. P. Lovecraft --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000717-0, 02/26/2007 Tested on: 2/26/2007 3:14:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Damn Republicans caused 6 ice ages and all the global warming in between. I
could be sitting here drinking my beer under 35 feet of ice if it wasn't for big oil and automakers getting rich for thousands of years. As if that wasn't enough, they caused volcanic eruptions, because one of those does more to create GW than humans could possibly do in a million years. None of this is true now, because they change history and make up new every week... Interesting to see what they have added for this month... Now, back to some wood work talk, please, I'm learning from that, not this crap... "Bill in Detroit" wrote in message ... Lobby Dosser wrote: Bill in Detroit wrote: Lobby Dosser wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm Just for the fun of it ... does anyone know where I could get a map showing those new coast lines? I might want to invest in some beachfront property in Wyoming. ;-) Bill http://www.geo.arizona.edu/dgesl/res...ge_and_sea_lev el/sea_level_rise/sea_level_rise.htm That's a good start but it maxes out at 6 meters worth of rise. I was hoping to get a look at the effect of a 61 meter (200 ft) rise. So far, Google is teasing but not delivering the goods. Bill -- I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a **** unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about. H. P. Lovecraft --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000717-0, 02/26/2007 Tested on: 2/26/2007 3:14:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 4422 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 4422 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Lobby Dosser wrote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm See what happens when you don't have Al Gore and the associated earth worshipers around to warn you. (BTW, does anyone know what the CAFE average was for cars 14,200 years ago?) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Daneliuk PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/ |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Feb 25, 2:08 am, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
Lobby Dosser wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm See what happens when you don't have Al Gore and the associated earth worshipers around to warn you. (BTW, does anyone know what the CAFE average was for cars 14,200 years ago?) I decided that I should at least watch the Gore movie if I was to comment on it. I'm sure many of us here have seen it as well. A couple of things jumped out at me as I watched the movie. An excellent job at product placement by Apple Inc., where Gore is a member of the Board of Directors. Gore used the program Keynote, also by Apple, very well. (Keynote is a presentation program like Powerpoint, but much nicer.) I also read several bios on Gore. I'm impressed. This guy is no dummy. So... A lot of it sounds plausible, to me. But.. is it just another way to spread fear? Is it Gore's 'terrists' fear mongering? I simply do not know. What I _do_ know, is that as stewards of our planet we suck. I have always believed we're irresponsible. I have done a few things, which if we all did would help, like CFL bulbs. I only use water-based lacquers now as they are pretty good now. I keep my cars in tune. Just little bits here and there.---- I'm no tree-hugger, hate tofu. But I don't hate tofu as much as the 300 pound pig with the cigarette dangling from its yap, climbing out of a Hummer, parked in the invalid zone without a permit. But that's a whole different story. |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On 25 Feb 2007 10:40:26 -0800, "Robatoy" wrote:
On Feb 25, 2:08 am, Tim Daneliuk wrote: Lobby Dosser wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm See what happens when you don't have Al Gore and the associated earth worshipers around to warn you. (BTW, does anyone know what the CAFE average was for cars 14,200 years ago?) I decided that I should at least watch the Gore movie if I was to comment on it. I'm sure many of us here have seen it as well. A couple of things jumped out at me as I watched the movie. An excellent job at product placement by Apple Inc., where Gore is a member of the Board of Directors. Gore used the program Keynote, also by Apple, very well. (Keynote is a presentation program like Powerpoint, but much nicer.) I also read several bios on Gore. I'm impressed. This guy is no dummy. So... What bios would give that impression? He dropped out of Divinity school and his undergraduate academic performance was below that of the person people refer to as the dumbest president we ever elected. But that's a different topic. (http://www.larryelder.com/Gore/goredubiousrecord.htm) A lot of it sounds plausible, to me. But.. is it just another way to spread fear? Is it Gore's 'terrists' fear mongering? I simply do not know. Maybe one of the things to ask is what would *not* be evidence of global warming, and most especially man-caused global warming? Seems that no matter what the weather pattern or weather event, it is all cited as "evidence of global warming". More hurricanes than normal? Global warming coming home to roost. Less hurricanes than normal? Evidence of the extremes in weather patterns due to global warming. Hotter summers than normal? Of course, global warming. Colder winter than normal? Again, evidence of the extremes being caused by global warming. So, given that everything observed is evidence of global warming, the thing to ask the proponents of this theory, is "what evidence would be required to refute this theory?" When everything is cited as evidence of a theory and nothing as evidence to dispute it, then one needs to start questioning the person postulating the theory. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Feb 25, 4:38 pm, Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 25 Feb 2007 10:40:26 -0800, "Robatoy" wrote: On Feb 25, 2:08 am, Tim Daneliuk wrote: Lobby Dosser wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm See what happens when you don't have Al Gore and the associated earth worshipers around to warn you. (BTW, does anyone know what the CAFE average was for cars 14,200 years ago?) I decided that I should at least watch the Gore movie if I was to comment on it. I'm sure many of us here have seen it as well. A couple of things jumped out at me as I watched the movie. An excellent job at product placement by Apple Inc., where Gore is a member of the Board of Directors. Gore used the program Keynote, also by Apple, very well. (Keynote is a presentation program like Powerpoint, but much nicer.) I also read several bios on Gore. I'm impressed. This guy is no dummy. So... What bios would give that impression? He dropped out of Divinity school and his undergraduate academic performance was below that of the person people refer to as the dumbest president we ever elected. But that's a different topic. (http://www.larryelder.com/Gore/goredubiousrecord.htm) Ummmm.. that link you provided ends with: "This election is not an I.Q. test; it is about which candidate has better judgment. And that is why, despite the media's love affair with the celluloid image of Al Gore the policy-wonk, it is the affable, authentic, and sensible Bush who would make the better leader." Shall I continue? The bios on Gore, never claimed any stellar academic finishes. His involvement in many tasks was a clear indicator that he's no dummy. I'm no huge Gore fan, but he's more than just a wooden face. http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/gore.html ....and nowhere did this particular bio say that he's a brilliant MBA and military strategist. In fact there are many things this bio doesn't say. But he did put on a uniform. Did go to 'Nam. ----compared to what you got as POTUS now, that's not too shabby. The big questions now are : will he announce his candicay for POTUS at the Oscars? Will he wait till he gets drafted? |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Feb 25, 5:33 pm, "Robatoy" wrote:
... The big questions now are : will he announce his candicay for POTUS at the Oscars? Will he wait till he gets drafted? No. He were going to run for office again he would avoid deep involvement in any one issue. Single-issue candidacies are never more than publicity stunts. He won;t even run as a Green Party candidate as he won't want to pull votes away from the Democrat. -- FF |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:38:10 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote: What bios would give that impression? He dropped out of Divinity school and his undergraduate academic performance was below that of the person people refer to as the dumbest president we ever elected. Thank god we only elected him once. -- LRod Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999 http://www.woodbutcher.net Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997 email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month. If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't care to correspond with you anyway. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:59:20 +0000, LRod
wrote: Thank god we only elected him once. : ) |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message ... On 25 Feb 2007 10:40:26 -0800, "Robatoy" wrote: Maybe one of the things to ask is what would *not* be evidence of global warming, and most especially man-caused global warming? Seems that no matter what the weather pattern or weather event, it is all cited as "evidence of global warming". More hurricanes than normal? Global warming coming home to roost. Less hurricanes than normal? Evidence of the extremes in weather patterns due to global warming. Hotter summers than normal? Of course, global warming. Colder winter than normal? Again, evidence of the extremes being caused by global warming. So, given that everything observed is evidence of global warming, the thing to ask the proponents of this theory, is "what evidence would be required to refute this theory?" When everything is cited as evidence of a theory and nothing as evidence to dispute it, then one needs to start questioning the person postulating the theory. That is very simple. If the climate stays the same then nothing is messed up. The exact local consequences of global warming are very difficult to predict, but it's very clear that there are unprecedented weather extremes across the globe already. Tim w |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Tim W" wrote in message ... That is very simple. If the climate stays the same then nothing is messed up. The exact local consequences of global warming are very difficult to predict, but it's very clear that there are unprecedented weather extremes across the globe already. Tim w Not true at all.......poke around weather records for any locale for the past 100 years and you will find various extremes at any time period.......Rod |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Tim W" wrote:
"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message ... On 25 Feb 2007 10:40:26 -0800, "Robatoy" wrote: Maybe one of the things to ask is what would *not* be evidence of global warming, and most especially man-caused global warming? Seems that no matter what the weather pattern or weather event, it is all cited as "evidence of global warming". More hurricanes than normal? Global warming coming home to roost. Less hurricanes than normal? Evidence of the extremes in weather patterns due to global warming. Hotter summers than normal? Of course, global warming. Colder winter than normal? Again, evidence of the extremes being caused by global warming. So, given that everything observed is evidence of global warming, the thing to ask the proponents of this theory, is "what evidence would be required to refute this theory?" When everything is cited as evidence of a theory and nothing as evidence to dispute it, then one needs to start questioning the person postulating the theory. That is very simple. If the climate stays the same then nothing is messed up. The exact local consequences of global warming are very difficult to predict, but it's very clear that there are unprecedented weather extremes across the globe already. For the period we have measurements from. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Mark & Juanita wrote:
So, given that everything observed is evidence of global warming, the thing to ask the proponents of this theory, is "what evidence would be required to refute this theory?" When everything is cited as evidence of a theory and nothing as evidence to dispute it, then one needs to start questioning the person postulating the theory. Facts: 1. CO2 reflects infrared radiation. 2. The earth gives off infrared radiation. 3. When infrared radiation reflects back to earth, the global temperature rises 4. Human produced CO2 can be distinguished from that produced by other sources. 5. Humans are not necessarily the sole cause of global warming. |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 02:49:02 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote: Mark & Juanita wrote: So, given that everything observed is evidence of global warming, the thing to ask the proponents of this theory, is "what evidence would be required to refute this theory?" When everything is cited as evidence of a theory and nothing as evidence to dispute it, then one needs to start questioning the person postulating the theory. Facts: 1. CO2 reflects infrared radiation. 2. The earth gives off infrared radiation. 3. When infrared radiation reflects back to earth, the global temperature rises 4. Human produced CO2 can be distinguished from that produced by other sources. How? 5. Humans are not necessarily the sole cause of global warming. |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 02:49:02 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote: Mark & Juanita wrote: So, given that everything observed is evidence of global warming, the thing to ask the proponents of this theory, is "what evidence would be required to refute this theory?" When everything is cited as evidence of a theory and nothing as evidence to dispute it, then one needs to start questioning the person postulating the theory. Facts: 1. CO2 reflects infrared radiation. OK 2. The earth gives off infrared radiation. Well, sort of 3. When infrared radiation reflects back to earth, the global temperature rises 4. Human produced CO2 can be distinguished from that produced by other sources. How so? 5. Humans are not necessarily the sole cause of global warming. So, what is missing in your comments above is that you assume an open-loop system. Earth is not open-loop. Additional CO2 improves plant health, increased plant health and density uses up more CO2, causing CO2 to decrease in a closed-loop system that is far from understood. The impact of the bodies of water covering over 3/4 of the earth's surface are also not understood. So, what we have is pure conjecture, whipped up into near hysteria over predictions of cataclysmic events with little true evidence to back up even the basic conjecture. What this appears to be is eco-religion with dogma (global warming caused by human activity, any and all meteorological events are, by definition, evidence of this dogma), sin (CO2 production), penance (drastic reduction of industrial capabilities), and indulgences (carbon trading). And the high priests of this religion are able to control the lives of the peasants over whom they hold sway. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Mark & Juanita writes:
Maybe one of the things to ask is what would *not* be evidence of global warming, and most especially man-caused global warming? Seems that no matter what the weather pattern or weather event, it is all cited as "evidence of global warming". Not in the scientific literature. At least, not on a single-event level. The predictions made by theory are general in nature - changes in means, changes in range, changes in frequency. You cannot estimate any of these based on a single event. More hurricanes than normal? Global warming coming home to roost. Less hurricanes than normal? Evidence of the extremes in weather patterns due to global warming. I'm not aware of exactly what scientific predictions are made for hurricane frequency (although I think it is generally accepted that warmer ocean temperatures will increase the likelihood of stronger hurricanes), but: IF the prediction is that hurricane frequency will become more VARIABLE from year-to-year, then seeing years with either MORE or LESS than previously seen would be consistent with that prediction. ...and remember, Dr. Gray, the emminent hurricane researcher who does NOT believe if anthopogenic global warming, is one of the people that incorrectly predicted that 2006 would be a bad year for hurricanes. It looks like *everyone* got that one wrong. Hotter summers than normal? Of course, global warming. Colder winter than normal? Again, evidence of the extremes being caused by global warming. Well, increased extremes in temperature and precipitation has been one of the predictions. I heard that being said back in the 1970s. Once again, it is erroneous to try to assess that change in frequency on the basis of a single event, but when scientists do time-series analysis on the entire record (say, past 150 years at most), then the results are consistent with there being a very recent shift, consistent with the scientific predictions. So, given that everything observed is evidence of global warming, That's a strawman. Probably not of your own making, but it is a strawman. the thing to ask the proponents of this theory, is "what evidence would be required to refute this theory?" When everything is cited as evidence of a theory and nothing as evidence to dispute it, then one needs to start questioning the person postulating the theory. Stop reading the crap in the media, and start looking at what the scientists are actually saying. Try starting at http://www.ipcc.ch. Things that would tend to disprove anthropogenic global warming theory: - measurements showing that CO2 does not absorb IR radiation - i.e. it is not a "greenhouse gas". (Easy to show in a lab that it does.) - measurement that show that atmospheric CO2 is not rising (many measurements in many parts of the world show that it is) - an alternative theory to explain why the mean earth surface temperature is about 15C, instead of the -18C it would be expected to be without an atmosphere. (Note: this would disprove "greenhouse theory" in general, not just the expectation that increasing CO2 will lead to an increase in the natural greenhouse effect.) - measurments that show that - all other known factors being accounted for - there is NO global mean temperature increase can relates to the increase in atmopheric CO2. (After accounting for other known factors such as solar output, atmospheric dust, volcanoes, and a few other things, there remains an increase in temperature over the past few decades that is of about the same magnitude as that predicted by "global warming theory".) - an alternative theory that the earth's radiation imbalance with space caused by increasing atmospheric CO2 will be compensated for by a mechanism that WON'T lead to surface warming. (A few have been hypothesized, but data has generally shown them to be incorrect.) You seem to have formed a rather strong opinion based on a very limited knowledge of the dicipline. How much are you interested in learning? |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On 26 Feb 2007 21:28:52 -0600, D Smith wrote:
Mark & Juanita writes: Maybe one of the things to ask is what would *not* be evidence of global warming, and most especially man-caused global warming? Seems that no matter what the weather pattern or weather event, it is all cited as "evidence of global warming". Not in the scientific literature. At least, not on a single-event level. The predictions made by theory are general in nature - changes in means, changes in range, changes in frequency. You cannot estimate any of these based on a single event. More hurricanes than normal? Global warming coming home to roost. Less hurricanes than normal? Evidence of the extremes in weather patterns due to global warming. I'm not aware of exactly what scientific predictions are made for hurricane frequency (although I think it is generally accepted that warmer ocean temperatures will increase the likelihood of stronger hurricanes), but: IF the prediction is that hurricane frequency will become more VARIABLE from year-to-year, then seeing years with either MORE or LESS than previously seen would be consistent with that prediction. ...and remember, Dr. Gray, the emminent hurricane researcher who does NOT believe if anthopogenic global warming, is one of the people that incorrectly predicted that 2006 would be a bad year for hurricanes. It looks like *everyone* got that one wrong. Hotter summers than normal? Of course, global warming. Colder winter than normal? Again, evidence of the extremes being caused by global warming. Well, increased extremes in temperature and precipitation has been one of the predictions. I heard that being said back in the 1970s. Once again, it is erroneous to try to assess that change in frequency on the basis of a single event, but when scientists do time-series analysis on the entire record (say, past 150 years at most), then the results are consistent with there being a very recent shift, consistent with the scientific predictions. So, given that everything observed is evidence of global warming, That's a strawman. Probably not of your own making, but it is a strawman. the thing to ask the proponents of this theory, is "what evidence would be required to refute this theory?" When everything is cited as evidence of a theory and nothing as evidence to dispute it, then one needs to start questioning the person postulating the theory. Stop reading the crap in the media, and start looking at what the scientists are actually saying. Try starting at http://www.ipcc.ch. Things that would tend to disprove anthropogenic global warming theory: - measurements showing that CO2 does not absorb IR radiation - i.e. it is not a "greenhouse gas". (Easy to show in a lab that it does.) - measurement that show that atmospheric CO2 is not rising (many measurements in many parts of the world show that it is) - an alternative theory to explain why the mean earth surface temperature is about 15C, instead of the -18C it would be expected to be without an atmosphere. (Note: this would disprove "greenhouse theory" in general, not just the expectation that increasing CO2 will lead to an increase in the natural greenhouse effect.) - measurments that show that - all other known factors being accounted for - there is NO global mean temperature increase can relates to the increase in atmopheric CO2. (After accounting for other known factors such as solar output, atmospheric dust, volcanoes, and a few other things, there remains an increase in temperature over the past few decades that is of about the same magnitude as that predicted by "global warming theory".) - an alternative theory that the earth's radiation imbalance with space caused by increasing atmospheric CO2 will be compensated for by a mechanism that WON'T lead to surface warming. (A few have been hypothesized, but data has generally shown them to be incorrect.) You seem to have formed a rather strong opinion based on a very limited knowledge of the dicipline. How much are you interested in learning? I'm sorry, but none of those address the "anthropogenic" issue. All of those points you make are equally consistent with a completely natural cause. |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
In article , D Smith wrote:
Well, increased extremes in temperature and precipitation has been one of the predictions. I heard that being said back in the 1970s. Horsepuckey. Back in the 1970s, the 'panic du jour' was global COOLING. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Feb 26, 10:28 pm, D Smith wrote:
... Stop reading the crap in the media, and start looking at what the scientists are actually saying. Try starting athttp://www.ipcc.ch. Having you heard? There is a vast cadre of mainstream scientists who can disprove global climate change is occurring but their work is being suppressed. No doubt the same people who suppressed the 100 mpg carburator, proof of aliens visiting the Earth, the automobile engine that runs on water, and the truth behind the Kennedy assassinations. are responsible. -- FF |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Feb 25, 4:38 pm, Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 25 Feb 2007 10:40:26 -0800, "Robatoy" wrote: On Feb 25, 2:08 am, Tim Daneliuk wrote: Lobby Dosser wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm See what happens when you don't have Al Gore and the associated earth worshipers around to warn you. (BTW, does anyone know what the CAFE average was for cars 14,200 years ago?) I decided that I should at least watch the Gore movie if I was to comment on it. I'm sure many of us here have seen it as well. A couple of things jumped out at me as I watched the movie. An excellent job at product placement by Apple Inc., where Gore is a member of the Board of Directors. Gore used the program Keynote, also by Apple, very well. (Keynote is a presentation program like Powerpoint, but much nicer.) I also read several bios on Gore. I'm impressed. This guy is no dummy. So... What bios would give that impression? He dropped out of Divinity school and his undergraduate academic performance was below that of the person people refer to as the dumbest president we ever elected. But that's a different topic. (http://www.larryelder.com/Gore/goredubiousrecord.htm) A lot of it sounds plausible, to me. But.. is it just another way to spread fear? Is it Gore's 'terrists' fear mongering? I simply do not know. Maybe one of the things to ask is what would *not* be evidence of global warming, and most especially man-caused global warming? Seems that no matter what the weather pattern or weather event, it is all cited as "evidence of global warming". More hurricanes than normal? Global warming coming home to roost. Less hurricanes than normal? Evidence of the extremes in weather patterns due to global warming. Hotter summers than normal? Of course, global warming. Colder winter than normal? Again, evidence of the extremes being caused by global warming. Indeed. So ignore that at look at the rise is atmospheric CO2 over the last fifty years. The prediction of global warming follows from the law of conservation of energy. -- FF |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Feb 25, 1:40 pm, "Robatoy" wrote:
... A lot of it sounds plausible, to me. But.. is it just another way to spread fear? Is it Gore's 'terrists' fear mongering? I simply do not know. ... What would be the motivation? Isn't he free to buy stock in petroleum companies, just like everyone else? -- FF |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Feb 25, 1:40 pm, "Robatoy" wrote:
... A lot of it sounds plausible, to me. But.. is it just another way to spread fear? Is it Gore's 'terrists' fear mongering? I simply do not know. ... What would be the motivation? Isn't he free to buy stock in petroleum companies, just like everyone else? -- FF |
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? Why do we assume a snapshot of the earth in 1977 is the way things are always supposed to be? The earth is still changing. -- Mark |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? Why do we assume a snapshot of the earth in 1977 is the way things are always supposed to be? The earth is still changing. Except that Cook saw them in the 18th Century, Ross took a closer look in the mid 19th century, Scott did detailed land based surveys early in the 20th century followed by a lot of data throughout the 20th century which says that we are no witnessing a gradual change over a long period but a sudden dip in temperatures and a possible collapse of the sea-born ice sheets. Tim w |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:51:20 GMT, "Tim W"
wrote: "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? Why do we assume a snapshot of the earth in 1977 is the way things are always supposed to be? The earth is still changing. Except that Cook saw them in the 18th Century, Ross took a closer look in the mid 19th century, Scott did detailed land based surveys early in the 20th century followed by a lot of data throughout the 20th century which says that we are no witnessing a gradual change over a long period but a sudden dip in temperatures and a possible collapse of the sea-born ice sheets. Now let's see, from the beginning of the 18th century to now is what, 3 percent of _one_ glaciation cycle? And on that basis we know what is "normal"? |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:51:20 GMT, "Tim W" wrote: "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? Why do we assume a snapshot of the earth in 1977 is the way things are always supposed to be? The earth is still changing. Except that Cook saw them in the 18th Century, Ross took a closer look in the mid 19th century, Scott did detailed land based surveys early in the 20th century followed by a lot of data throughout the 20th century which says that we are no witnessing a gradual change over a long period but a sudden dip in temperatures and a possible collapse of the sea-born ice sheets. Now let's see, from the beginning of the 18th century to now is what, 3 percent of _one_ glaciation cycle? And on that basis we know what is "normal"? Okay. we are not looking at a "snapshot of the earth in 1977" That was my simple point. Do we know what is normal over geological time-spans? Well yes, we have a pretty good idea based on ice-cores, sea level changes, fossil records and the like, but it is a total irrelevance since you and i are not going to live that long. Global warming is going to happen this century and rapidly. Tim w |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:01:56 GMT, "Tim W"
wrote: "J. Clarke" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:51:20 GMT, "Tim W" wrote: "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? Why do we assume a snapshot of the earth in 1977 is the way things are always supposed to be? The earth is still changing. Except that Cook saw them in the 18th Century, Ross took a closer look in the mid 19th century, Scott did detailed land based surveys early in the 20th century followed by a lot of data throughout the 20th century which says that we are no witnessing a gradual change over a long period but a sudden dip in temperatures and a possible collapse of the sea-born ice sheets. Now let's see, from the beginning of the 18th century to now is what, 3 percent of _one_ glaciation cycle? And on that basis we know what is "normal"? Okay. we are not looking at a "snapshot of the earth in 1977" That was my simple point. Do we know what is normal over geological time-spans? Well yes, we have a pretty good idea based on ice-cores, sea level changes, fossil records and the like, but it is a total irrelevance since you and i are not going to live that long. Global warming is going to happen this century and rapidly. And? Are you just proclaiming doom and gloom or is somebody supposed to do something about it? |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Tim W" wrote in message
... "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? Why do we assume a snapshot of the earth in 1977 is the way things are always supposed to be? The earth is still changing. Except that Cook saw them in the 18th Century, Ross took a closer look in the mid 19th century, Scott did detailed land based surveys early in the 20th century followed by a lot of data throughout the 20th century which says that we are no witnessing a gradual change over a long period but a sudden dip in temperatures and a possible collapse of the sea-born ice sheets. But when we're talking about Ross & Scott we're not talking about but a fraction of a geologic tick of the clock. As I understand it Antartica used to be a tropical place, back when it was closer to Africa and South America. In my understanding the earth's climate is a lot like the earth's weather -- always changing! Please explain why I should be concerned that "temporary" features like ice shelves are freezing and growing and/or shrinking and melting. Based on my googling it appears the only constant is *change*! Bejeerks! I'm old enough I was taught in elementary school that the earth's mountains were formed by the "crinkling" of the earth as it "cooled." What a load of nonsense that is. AsbestosUnderware=on When I read the original article I was impressed by how stupid it is to rebuild a city that is below sea level like New Orleans, New Lousiana, USA. I love the city; I've marched in Mardi Gras parades there, but IMO it is stupid to rebuild it. It appears to me the evidence is that NO will be a whole lot *more* underwater in the next xxxx years. / -- Mark |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:AWpEh.1717$N63.1623@trnddc08... "Tim W" wrote in message ... "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? [...] Please explain why I should be concerned that "temporary" features like ice shelves are freezing and growing and/or shrinking and melting. Because the consequences are mind boggling. Tim w |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:04:52 GMT, "Tim W"
wrote: "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:AWpEh.1717$N63.1623@trnddc08... "Tim W" wrote in message ... "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? [...] Please explain why I should be concerned that "temporary" features like ice shelves are freezing and growing and/or shrinking and melting. Because the consequences are mind boggling. If you think a few coastal floods are "mind-boggling" then you need to get out more. |
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Tim W" wrote in message
... "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? [...] Please explain why I should be concerned that "temporary" features like ice shelves are freezing and growing and/or shrinking and melting. Because the consequences are mind boggling. What I find mind boggling is the decision to rebuild a below sea level city, New Orleans LA USA. -- Mark |
#35
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 00:34:40 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
wrote: "Tim W" wrote in message ... "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? Why do we assume a snapshot of the earth in 1977 is the way things are always supposed to be? The earth is still changing. Except that Cook saw them in the 18th Century, Ross took a closer look in the mid 19th century, Scott did detailed land based surveys early in the 20th century followed by a lot of data throughout the 20th century which says that we are no witnessing a gradual change over a long period but a sudden dip in temperatures and a possible collapse of the sea-born ice sheets. But when we're talking about Ross & Scott we're not talking about but a fraction of a geologic tick of the clock. As I understand it Antartica used to be a tropical place, back when it was closer to Africa and South America. In my understanding the earth's climate is a lot like the earth's weather -- always changing! Please explain why I should be concerned that "temporary" features like ice shelves are freezing and growing and/or shrinking and melting. Based on my googling it appears the only constant is *change*! The reason you should be concerned is that if there is a significant change in sea level there will be economic consequences for a lot of people, not all of whom live close to the ocean--flood the ports and no more Chinese tools or exotic woods until new ports are built. But being concerned about climate change and trying to fix it with a possibly ill-considered panic-stricken change in industrial policy are not the same things. Bejeerks! I'm old enough I was taught in elementary school that the earth's mountains were formed by the "crinkling" of the earth as it "cooled." What a load of nonsense that is. AsbestosUnderware=on When I read the original article I was impressed by how stupid it is to rebuild a city that is below sea level like New Orleans, New Lousiana, USA. I love the city; I've marched in Mardi Gras parades there, but IMO it is stupid to rebuild it. It appears to me the evidence is that NO will be a whole lot *more* underwater in the next xxxx years. / -- Mark |
#36
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Mark Jerde" wrote:
"Tim W" wrote in message ... "Mark Jerde" wrote in message news:_BoEh.4251$tR1.2181@trnddc05... "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm "What is very clear, however, is the importance of Antarctica's huge ice sheets remaining stable." Huh? Why should they be stable? Why do we assume a snapshot of the earth in 1977 is the way things are always supposed to be? The earth is still changing. Except that Cook saw them in the 18th Century, Ross took a closer look in the mid 19th century, Scott did detailed land based surveys early in the 20th century followed by a lot of data throughout the 20th century which says that we are no witnessing a gradual change over a long period but a sudden dip in temperatures and a possible collapse of the sea-born ice sheets. But when we're talking about Ross & Scott we're not talking about but a fraction of a geologic tick of the clock. As I understand it Antartica used to be a tropical place, back when it was closer to Africa and South America. In my understanding the earth's climate is a lot like the earth's weather -- always changing! Please explain why I should be concerned that "temporary" features like ice shelves are freezing and growing and/or shrinking and melting. Based on my googling it appears the only constant is *change*! Bejeerks! I'm old enough I was taught in elementary school that the earth's mountains were formed by the "crinkling" of the earth as it "cooled." What a load of nonsense that is. AsbestosUnderware=on When I read the original article I was impressed by how stupid it is to rebuild a city that is below sea level like New Orleans, New Lousiana, USA. I love the city; I've marched in Mardi Gras parades there, but IMO it is stupid to rebuild it. It appears to me the evidence is that NO will be a whole lot *more* underwater in the next xxxx years. / -- Mark And a whole lot more cities to boot. |
#37
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
On Feb 25, 7:34 pm, "Mark Jerde" wrote:
"Tim W" wrote in message ... In my understanding the earth's climate is a lot like the earth's weather -- always changing! Please explain why I should be concerned that "temporary" features like ice shelves are freezing and growing and/or shrinking and melting. Based on my googling it appears the only constant is *change*! Google for 'rate of change'. Also Methane clathrate. -- FF |
#38
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:i96Eh.4953$Xe1.3534@trndny01... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020329072043.htm |
#39
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Take a test:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Gl...est/start.html -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 2/20/07 |
#40
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Global Warming - It NEVER Happened Before
Swingman wrote:
Take a test: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Gl...est/start.html 100%, first time. |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
If this is global warming... | Woodworking | |||
So this is global warming | Woodworking | |||
OT global warming | UK diy | |||
OT - Global Warming Revisited | Metalworking | |||
OT there is "significant global warming" | Metalworking |