I, like many of you, grew up in a global climate of fear, wherein we
were taught as little children to hide under our desks in response to
the fear of nuclear war.

I, like many of you, grew up listening to the harpies talking about
the Population Bomb.

I, like many of you, grew up thinking that we would never survive the
Silent Spring.

I, like many of you, grew up in a world where the USA made the cars
and everyone else bought them.

I, like you, grew up in a world where Barry Goldwater was a
Conservative and LBJ was a Liberal.

My children are not growing up in a world like you and I grew up in.

It is difficult for me to explain to them that history is often wrong
and that the home team is not always the hero.

When I was younger and smarter I described myself as a "Barry
Goldwater Democrat".

You old guys understand the complexity that underlies such a
statement.

Now I just stick to the old timey, "Fiscal Conservative - Social
Liberal", and live within the stresses that the definition implies.

Global Warming can kiss my ass. I'm a lot more worried about Persia
and Byzantium.

tom watson wrote:

I, like many of you, grew up in a global climate of fear, wherein we
were taught as little children to hide under our desks in response to
the fear of nuclear war.


For us it was fallout shelters.

I, like many of you, grew up listening to the harpies talking about
the Population Bomb.


It's still ticking - louder all the time.

I, like many of you, grew up thinking that we would never survive the
Silent Spring.


And a lot didn't - for just one example, look up the W.R.Grace asbestos death
toll in Northern Idaho. Then there's Union Carbide, acid rain, Love Canal,
and so ad infinitum.

I, like many of you, grew up in a world where the USA made the cars
and everyone else bought them.


Only if you grew up before the end of WW2. Or have MG, VW, Jaguar, Morris
Minor, MiniCooper, and others slipped your mind?

I, like you, grew up in a world where Barry Goldwater was a
Conservative and LBJ was a Liberal.


There I agree.

My children are not growing up in a world like you and I grew up in.

It is difficult for me to explain to them that history is often wrong
and that the home team is not always the hero.

When I was younger and smarter I described myself as a "Barry
Goldwater Democrat".

You old guys understand the complexity that underlies such a
statement.

Now I just stick to the old timey, "Fiscal Conservative - Social
Liberal", and live within the stresses that the definition implies.


Can't argue with any of the above - same description applies to me.

Global Warming can kiss my ass. I'm a lot more worried about Persia
and Byzantium.


If you're concerned about short-term personal/family survival, you're right.
If you're concerned about long term survival of our species, you're wrong.

The planet will survive just fine - at least till the next "intelligent"
species comes along. It's the current flora and fauna that are in trouble.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message

The planet will survive just fine - at least till the next "intelligent"
species comes along. It's the current flora and fauna that are in
trouble.

Thinning of the herd ... a historic event that, judging from freeway
behavior and what passes for entertainment, may be none too soon.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/07/07

"tom watson" wrote in message
...
[...]
Global Warming can kiss my ass. [...]

er, you don't care about it? you don't believe it's happenning? You are too
busy to worry about it? Would you care to let us know what you mean?

Tim w

On Feb 20, 2:07 pm, "
wrote:


That word is a lightening rod of controversy and has more power to
cause fights and acrimony than any other word I know. Down here in
the southern US there have even been attempts to pass laws against
saying that word or related words in public.


Exactly. It is an offensive word, and it clearly illustrates the
disdain tho occupiers have towards the Palestinians. I suppose I could
have used the word 'scum' to try to describe how the 'rest' of them
feel about Arabs.
I, however, have a much higher regard of another human beings than
that.

r

On Feb 20, 8:18 pm, "Robatoy"
I suppose I could
have used the word 'scum' to try to describe how the 'rest' of them
feel about Arabs.
I, however, have a much higher regard of another human beings than
that.

r

I didn't realize you spoke or wrote in that vernacular. I guess since
you are using the pronoun "I" in response, you are the one that fired
that shot.

I guess I am surprised as I had not seen a remark like that from you.
You have made it plain know how much you hate the US government (and
that is certainly your right, and of course you aren't alone by any
means), but I wouldn't have ever pegged you for making racist remarks,
not even when "firing for effect".

Robert

On Feb 20, 9:41 pm, "
wrote:
On Feb 20, 8:18 pm, "Robatoy"

I suppose I could
have used the word 'scum' to try to describe how the 'rest' of them
feel about Arabs.
I, however, have a much higher regard of another human beings than
that.

r

I didn't realize you spoke or wrote in that vernacular. I guess since
you are using the pronoun "I" in response, you are the one that fired
that shot.

Oh, stoppit. Don't turn this into something it isn't.

I guess I am surprised as I had not seen a remark like that from you.
You have made it plain know how much you hate the US government (and
that is certainly your right, and of course you aren't alone by any
means), but I wouldn't have ever pegged you for making racist remarks,
not even when "firing for effect".


You're shooting the messenger here, Robert.
I'm a lot of things, but racist isn't one of them. I expressed my
disgust with the Zionists who have absolutely no regard for the life
of the "xxxxx fill in the blank with words they would use." But you're
right, *I* selected that word.
To suggest I used that word for 'effect', in a Pryor-like fashion, is
inaccurate.

BTW, the very strong disappointment with the US government applies
mainly to the current bunch. We all know why.

On Feb 20, 10:52 pm, "Robatoy"

Well, while we are doing a lot of things in the US, enjoying free
speech in the US, free speech about certain issues isn't one of them.
Under no circumstances can you make any type of racially related
remark unless you are a person of color. Chris Rock said it well
years ago on 60 Minutes when he pointed out to Ed Bradley that white
people didn't have freedom of speech because the could say what he
wanted to about black people, and anything he felt like about white
people, and he knew he wouldn't get in trouble.
But he also recognized that white people do not have that option; for
the whites, it is only safe to make fun of whites.

Dave Chapelle did a brilliant send up of this same thing, but as is
his habit, it was much more pointed at the hypocrisy. Carlos Mencius
has even done a great piece or two on this situation, ending that part
of his show with "if you white people think you have freedom of
speech, just go to work Monday morning and try to tell my jokes".

Here in the US, off color jokes about different subjects can get you
written up at work, and maybe cause loss of promotion, etc. But an
inappropriate reference to race, or an epithet that contains any kind
of racial reference, slur or otherwise can lead to termination if
spoken to the wrong party. Immediate termination. I have seen it
happen.

Worse for us small company owners, even after firing the offending
party, you have to pay for any bouts of depression or counseling the
offended party may have, and YOU as the employer will have to go to
(and pay for) sensitivity training.

And with our extremely litigious society you can bet that any number
of attorney vultures are circling overhead waiting for the briefest
smell of newly minted "he's a racist so you owe me" money.

I didn't write that last post condemning you as a racist. But here,
the written word is all we have. No "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" or
ironic smile to give the correct tone to the sentence can make things
misleading to those that read your written message.

No one lives without prejudice or preference. And I don't know anyone
so holy as to claim they dont' enjoy some kind of off color joke now
and then. But it has been years since I have seen the "n" word
written for all to see by caucausian. If you lived here and someone
saw that, they could literally, honestly, turn you in to your employer
(I know in your case you are self employed) and you could expect
termination. Could you fight it? You bet. Would you win? Don't
know.

One of the seminars put on by our small business coalitions addressed
this issue on point. On corporate America's side, they felt like
discovering a slur should lead to termination. Why? To establish and
adversarial relationship with the offending party, sending a clear
message to the offending party and the rest of the employees that such
a thing won't be tolerated. Or as one older gentleman put it, I would
rather be sued for one wrongful termination that I could defend, than
to have a class action suit from 50 employees that said I tolerated
that kind of behavior.

Re/reading your post, I'm not really sure who you were railing out
against in the first paragraph. It sounds like (don't get more ****ed
off here, I may just be having a blockhead moment) that you are
thinking that someone is going to enslave the world and work with the
Jews to form a way to rule it after they wipe out those in their way
by using our troops to do so. Yes? No? I understood the rest of
the post, and as normal most of it made good sense.


BTW, the very strong disappointment with the US government applies
mainly to the current bunch. We all know why.

Yup... I sure do. Me included.

But you have to know that even though tearing down America is an
international sport enjoyed throughout the world by just about
everyone, no one enjoys tearing down America like Americans. It was
out sport long before others took it up as theirs. Watch our news.
Read out papers. Loathing of the government is a way of life here, no
matter whose party is in or out.

Robert

Robatoy wrote:


You're shooting the messenger here, Robert.
I'm a lot of things, but racist isn't one of them. I expressed my
disgust with the Zionists who have absolutely no regard for the life
of the "xxxxx fill in the blank with words they would use." But you're
right, *I* selected that word.
To suggest I used that word for 'effect', in a Pryor-like fashion, is
inaccurate.


In Biblical times, the word was "am-haarets", which, by the time of
Jesus, conveyed roughly the same level of disdain.

(nota bene: it was not used as such by him; see Mt 9:13, 36)

Bill

--
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one
rascal less in the world.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)
http://nmwoodworks.com


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"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"tom watson" wrote in message
...
[...]
Global Warming can kiss my ass. [...]

er, you don't care about it? you don't believe it's happenning? You are
too busy to worry about it? Would you care to let us know what you mean?

Tim w




I think he means that there is always something that will be the immediate
problem that a lot of people are going to buy into. Those "fads" come and
go with time. Several years back it was the Pet Rock, then the Killer Bee's
now the Global Warming.

On Feb 21, 3:12 am, "
wrote:

One of the local chemical giants disciplined two employees for
snickering. Someone in his department dropped a jug of coffee and
spilled a lot of coffee all over the floor.
Somebody called out for somebody to get a 'wet-vac'. He chuckled when
a third person said: "my goodness, I though he said 'wet-back."
They were both suspended, pending hearings and awareness training.

Re/reading your post, I'm not really sure who you were railing out
against in the first paragraph. It sounds like (don't get more ****ed
off here, I may just be having a blockhead moment) that you are
thinking that someone is going to enslave the world and work with the
Jews to form a way to rule it after they wipe out those in their way
by using our troops to do so. Yes? No?

A qualified yes. A very complicated issue.
Take a look at all the UN resolutions dealing with the Iraeli/
Palestinian issues.
The US gives Israel foreign aid, in spite of the violation of all
those resolutions.
Israel is a nuclear power, but not a member of the non-prolifiration
treaties.
Yet the US sends foreign aid. Countries are not supposed to do
business with nations which have nuclear weapons without membership in
the IAEA.

I am not a conspiricy freak, I do not wear a tinfoil hat.
But.......




I understood the rest of
the post, and as normal most of it made good sense.

BTW, the very strong disappointment with the US government applies
mainly to the current bunch. We all know why.

Yup... I sure do. Me included.

But you have to know that even though tearing down America is an
international sport enjoyed throughout the world by just about
everyone, no one enjoys tearing down America like Americans. It was
out sport long before others took it up as theirs. Watch our news.
Read out papers. Loathing of the government is a way of life here, no
matter whose party is in or out.

Agreed, the party in power will try to get away with all they can.
Regardless of affiliation.


r

What ever happened to "killer bees" anyway? I thought they were supposed to
take over the US by now and kill us all.
"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"tom watson" wrote in message
...
[...]
Global Warming can kiss my ass. [...]

er, you don't care about it? you don't believe it's happenning? You are
too busy to worry about it? Would you care to let us know what you mean?

Tim w




I think he means that there is always something that will be the immediate
problem that a lot of people are going to buy into. Those "fads" come
and go with time. Several years back it was the Pet Rock, then the Killer
Bee's now the Global Warming.

"sweet sawdust" wrote in message
...
What ever happened to "killer bees" anyway? I thought they were supposed
to take over the US by now and kill us all.


Global Warming got'em. Those big ice bergs breaking off and floating south
will get Global Warming.
Ships colliding with those ice burgs will cause coastal flooding. And on
and on. It's a never ending cycle you know.

sweet sawdust wrote:

What ever happened to "killer bees" anyway? I thought they were
supposed to
take over the US by now and kill us all.


If you are referring to the Africanized honey bees, they are alive and
well here in SoCal.

They frequently make the news, especially during the summer.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
sweet sawdust wrote:

What ever happened to "killer bees" anyway? I thought they were
supposed to
take over the US by now and kill us all.


If you are referring to the Africanized honey bees, they are alive and
well here in SoCal.

They frequently make the news, especially during the summer.

Lew

IIRC, cold weather stops them. Some time back I watched a video of them
responding to a deliberate provocation. They are persistent little buggers.

Bill


--
I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject
is worth a **** unless backed up with enough genuine information to make
him really know what he's talking about.

H. P. Lovecraft


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On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:31:54 -0600, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

What ever happened to "killer bees" anyway? I thought they were supposed to
take over the US by now and kill us all.

Unfortunately alive and well here in the southwest US. However, it
appears that they are becoming less aggressive as they move northward. Saw
that on one of the Discovery channel specials a few years ago.




"Leon" wrote in message
et...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"tom watson" wrote in message
...
[...]
Global Warming can kiss my ass. [...]

er, you don't care about it? you don't believe it's happenning? You are
too busy to worry about it? Would you care to let us know what you mean?

Tim w




I think he means that there is always something that will be the immediate
problem that a lot of people are going to buy into. Those "fads" come
and go with time. Several years back it was the Pet Rock, then the Killer
Bee's now the Global Warming.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Feb 21, 7:14 pm, "Robatoy" wrote:
A very complicated issue.

Truer words were never spoken. I sure as hell don't understand any of
it anymore.

Take a look at all the UN resolutions dealing with the Iraeli/
Palestinian issues.
The US gives Israel foreign aid, in spite of the violation of all those resolutions. Israel is a nuclear power, but not a member of the non-prolifiration treaties.

Another one I don't understand. I lost interest in the welfare of the
middle east when I saw them jumping for joy in the streets when shown
the planes crashing into the buildings on 9/11. Lost more interest
when I saw a Jewish leader saying (paraphrase) "well, maybe this will
get the US into the war against these people. This is how we have
been living for decades" He was only using it to further his own
cause. And in the case of the players in the middle east, we send aid
to almost all of them.


For me personally, I am tired of the USA's role in the world. Set
aside the middle east, and take a look at our other projects. Well
intentioned efforts have turned into open ********s with no bottoms.
I believe that we tried to do well with our aid programs, our food
programs, our scientific donations of expertise, and on an on. Yet,
the successes are so few that they can put them on in a season of the
Discovery channel. When we build a well to give fresh water to a
village in Africa, another opposing faction will come poison the
water, declaring a great victory. When we send vaccines to South
America, it is estimated that less than 20% actually reach the people
and are administered at no charge. The list of examples is huge. And
yet, not observing the laws of diminishing returns, we continue to
throw billions into those projects.

Why in the **** are we sending Hugo Chavez 600 million in aid (so far)
this year? Why? How retarded is our leadership? Remember, it takes
signatures to be able to send foreign aid. Bush didn't do that by
himself. But he didn't veto it either. Venezuela just nationalized
(stole) almost every single foreign company, bank, or farm in the
nation. I read that the large German bank down there lost several
hundred million alone when they did that. No one knows how much he
really stole in the name of taking back the country "for the people".
Yet in the case of the US, he didn't have to steal anything... we
wired the money straight to him.

I am increasingly liking a more isolationist attitude, one where we
fall in line with the other countries. When something goes terribly
wrong in a country, why should we respond? Many Americans are turning
more and more in this direction, I assure you. Kill a few thousand
Africans last month in a tribal bloodbath? Sorry to hear that. South
American death squads assasinate another political leader? Don't
recognize the name. Find a mass grave in Asia full of dissidents?
Sorry... couldn't see it from my house.

I would love to see our diplomats wring their hands in the U.N.,
demand answers, write scathing letters, deliver self righteous
speeches, and then go have a nice lunch with all the other involved
countries and talk about how cool diplomatic immunity is for them and
their staff. Play cards.. catch a movie... make happy hour. You
know, "institute a constructive dialogue" and "take small steps on the
road to resolution" of problems by talking them to death. When we are
pressed for help, we should take a troubled countenance, look
thoughtful, and promise our full attention and consideration... at a
later date.

We need a simplified approach to our foreign policy. I don't believe
that we should try to spread democracy to other countries either.
Most work well with dictators and despots, and although there is a lot
of whining from the oppressed, many feel that the countries actually
ran better under an iron heel. I don't believe we should be spilling
the blood of our soldiers to spread democracy to those that don't want
it and won't earn it. It is not a gift; it is not like installing a
new toilet. Once installed, it doesn't necessarily work. The price
is high, the choice of yes or no on democracy has always been there
for these ancient cultures, and if they don't want it, why should we
"give" it to them?

Anyway... starting to ramble... getting fired up... think
woodworking... woodworking...

Robert

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
nk.net...



If you are referring to the Africanized honey bees, they are alive and
well here in SoCal.

They frequently make the news, especially during the summer.

Lew

They have been in Texas for 12-15 years and only make the news now if there
is a problem with a particular hive or an attack. Often the attack or hive
is not Africanized honey bees.
As time passes you will see less reports like we do. We saw more reports
about them coming before they were here than after they arrived.

Global warming like Killer Bee's will one day give way to a more popular
crisis. Scientists have stated that there is nothing we can do to
significantly change global warming. I see that as long as we keep
breathing the CO2 will still contribute to global warming.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 01:37:32 GMT, "Tim W"
wrote:


"tom watson" wrote in message
.. .
[...]
Global Warming can kiss my ass. [...]

er, you don't care about it? you don't believe it's happenning? You are too
busy to worry about it? Would you care to let us know what you mean?

Tim w


It is the Cause Celebre (no, I ain't hunting for the ASCII for the
accent marks). It is the Cause Du Jour.

It is the lead card in the current three card monte that will lead
your attention from what is actually important.

In september of 2004 I posted a vocabulary list for Dubya to study:

Gulf of Tonkin Incident.
War Powers Resolution.
Domino Theory.
Escalation.
Body Count.
The Light At The End Of The Tunnel.
Draft Lottery.
Vietnamization.
Secret Plan To End The War.
Khmer Rouge.
Hearts and Minds.
Sideshow.
Pol Pot.
Ho Chi Minh.
Operation Rolling Thunder.
Khe Sanh.
Back In The World.
Tet.
Deros.
Operation Pegasus.
Destroying The Village In Order To Save It.
My Lai.
Chu Lai.
Napalm.
Saturation Bombing.
Agent Orange.
Hue.
Cambodia.
Laos.
William Westmoreland.
Maxwell Taylor.
Daniel Ellsberg.
Kent State.

How about we use this as a check off list and see where the hole card
really is.

Dubya is now sitting in the Whitehouse that he and his brother stole,
muttering to himself;

"Not another Vietnam.

Not another Vietnam.

Not another Vietnam."

Whether we do it ourselves, or have our client state do it for us, we
will have to address the Iran nuke problem within the next six months.

Either way it will not be pleasant.

And now bloody England is bowing out.

They should have been last man in for being the progenitor of the
Balfour Declaration.


Yes, Global Warming can kiss my ass.

There are other fish to fry.


tom.

tom watson wrote:

| Whether we do it ourselves, or have our client state do it for us,
| we will have to address the Iran nuke problem within the next six
| months.
|
| Either way it will not be pleasant.

Hmm. Wasn't it just over a year ago that the administration shipped 25
Vipers to Israel? George is probably hoping they haven't been
worn-out/used-up hammering UN and civilian targets in Lebanon.

As far as Iran is concerned, I do find myself wondering about how one
might internally resolve keeping the Talmud while attacking the
neighbor who provided its beginnings.

Covenants just ain't what they usta be.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:59:38 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

tom watson wrote:

| Whether we do it ourselves, or have our client state do it for us,
| we will have to address the Iran nuke problem within the next six
| months.
|
| Either way it will not be pleasant.

Hmm. Wasn't it just over a year ago that the administration shipped 25
Vipers to Israel? George is probably hoping they haven't been
worn-out/used-up hammering UN and civilian targets in Lebanon.

Uh, if by "Viper" you mean the F-16, Israel has more than three
hundred of them. As for "hammering UN and civilian targets", do wipe
the foam off your mouth.

As far as Iran is concerned, I do find myself wondering about how one
might internally resolve keeping the Talmud while attacking the
neighbor who provided its beginnings.

Well, gee, the same way they did when they were using the Ark of the
Covennant instead of tanks and aircraft?

Covenants just ain't what they usta be.

That's true. Or maybe not, where _is_ that pesky thing anyway?

J. Clarke wrote:
| On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:59:38 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
| wrote:
|
|| tom watson wrote:
||
||| Whether we do it ourselves, or have our client state do it for us,
||| we will have to address the Iran nuke problem within the next six
||| months.
|||
||| Either way it will not be pleasant.
||
|| Hmm. Wasn't it just over a year ago that the administration
|| shipped 25 Vipers to Israel? George is probably hoping they
|| haven't been worn-out/used-up hammering UN and civilian targets in
|| Lebanon.
|
| Uh, if by "Viper" you mean the F-16, Israel has more than three
| hundred of them. As for "hammering UN and civilian targets", do
| wipe the foam off your mouth.

I had occasion to visit Beirut before it was bombed the first time,
while it was still a beautiful city. I had American friends who worked
there (for American companies) who were victims of the bombings. While
I can understand that you might not care about innocent civilians
being killed in bomb attacks, others are inclined to care a bit more.
Your response, especially after your comments on the 9-11 attack, is
hypocritical in the extreme.

The UN observation outpost in northern Lebanon was hit repeatedly by
the Israelis - and the air strikes continued even after the Israeli
military command was notified that that's what it was. Video of one of
the Israeli strikes was shown on the Newshour that same night. If you
watch the news, were you able to recognize the aircraft type?

A thought problem for you: If the place where you live were bombed by
jets manufactured in country X (half a world away), how many air
strikes and resulting non-combatant deaths would it take before you
concluded that X was not only not your friend, but your enemy?

|| As far as Iran is concerned, I do find myself wondering about how
|| one might internally resolve keeping the Talmud while attacking the
|| neighbor who provided its beginnings.
|
| Well, gee, the same way they did when they were using the Ark of the
| Covennant instead of tanks and aircraft?

Well, gee, not much of a history buff are you? It shows.

|| Covenants just ain't what they usta be.
|
| That's true. Or maybe not, where _is_ that pesky thing anyway?

The reference wasn't to what you apparently thought it was.
Understandable.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

I had occasion to visit Beirut before it was bombed the first time,
while it was still a beautiful city.

You won't believe this, but that sentence damn near brought tears to my
eyes. I visited Beirut way back in the 60's, compliments of a sweet, then
young, thing who I met traveling around that part of the world when it, the
world, was a much kinder, gentler place.

That park$#

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:16:17 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
| On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:59:38 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
| wrote:
|
|| tom watson wrote:
||
||| Whether we do it ourselves, or have our client state do it for us,
||| we will have to address the Iran nuke problem within the next six
||| months.
|||
||| Either way it will not be pleasant.
||
|| Hmm. Wasn't it just over a year ago that the administration
|| shipped 25 Vipers to Israel? George is probably hoping they
|| haven't been worn-out/used-up hammering UN and civilian targets in
|| Lebanon.
|
| Uh, if by "Viper" you mean the F-16, Israel has more than three
| hundred of them. As for "hammering UN and civilian targets", do
| wipe the foam off your mouth.

I had occasion to visit Beirut before it was bombed the first time,
while it was still a beautiful city. I had American friends who worked
there (for American companies) who were victims of the bombings. While
I can understand that you might not care about innocent civilians
being killed in bomb attacks, others are inclined to care a bit more.
Your response, especially after your comments on the 9-11 attack, is
hypocritical in the extreme.

The UN observation outpost in northern Lebanon was hit repeatedly by
the Israelis - and the air strikes continued even after the Israeli
military command was notified that that's what it was. Video of one of
the Israeli strikes was shown on the Newshour that same night. If you
watch the news, were you able to recognize the aircraft type?

A thought problem for you: If the place where you live were bombed by
jets manufactured in country X (half a world away), how many air
strikes and resulting non-combatant deaths would it take before you
concluded that X was not only not your friend, but your enemy?

|| As far as Iran is concerned, I do find myself wondering about how
|| one might internally resolve keeping the Talmud while attacking the
|| neighbor who provided its beginnings.
|
| Well, gee, the same way they did when they were using the Ark of the
| Covennant instead of tanks and aircraft?

Well, gee, not much of a history buff are you? It shows.

|| Covenants just ain't what they usta be.
|
| That's true. Or maybe not, where _is_ that pesky thing anyway?

The reference wasn't to what you apparently thought it was.
Understandable.

plonk

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:59:38 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

tom watson wrote:

| Whether we do it ourselves, or have our client state do it for us,
| we will have to address the Iran nuke problem within the next six
| months.
|
| Either way it will not be pleasant.

Hmm. Wasn't it just over a year ago that the administration shipped 25
Vipers to Israel? George is probably hoping they haven't been
worn-out/used-up hammering UN and civilian targets in Lebanon.

As far as Iran is concerned, I do find myself wondering about how one
might internally resolve keeping the Talmud while attacking the
neighbor who provided its beginnings.

Covenants just ain't what they usta be.


I was thinking more along the lines of the F22 Raptor.

Initially the US Airforce ordered 750 of the plane.

Then it dropped to 350.

Then it dropped to 183.

I was sort of hoping that, as the numbers dropped on the US side, they
would be taken up by the Israelis, on the black side of the ledger.

If that is true, as I suspect it is, we may expect a good result,
given adequate targeting information.



As far as Iran is concerened: I take your pint.

It has always been a mystery to me that our powers of disinformation
did not extend to inculcating the thought that national policy and
strictly interpreted Islam were antithetical.

If that thought could be brought to the street level - the contest
would be over.

On Feb 22, 2:11 am, "
wrote:


A lot of good stuff in your post, Robert. I will reply off-line and
post sometime tomorrow, I'm knackered from a gruelling (but good) day.

off to the fart-sack I goeth.

r

On Feb 23, 10:25 pm, "Robatoy" wrote:
On Feb 22, 2:11 am, "
wrote:

A lot of good stuff in your post, Robert. I will reply off-line and
post sometime tomorrow, I'm knackered from a gruelling (but good) day.

off to the fart-sack I goeth.

r

r - I almost always enjoy your posts, and would love to hear from
you. Intelligent conversation is always a pleasure.

correct email is:



Take out "the garbage" and "the trash".

Off to the rack myself.

Robert

"tom watson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 01:37:32 GMT, "Tim W"
wrote:


"tom watson" wrote in message
. ..
[...]
Global Warming can kiss my ass. [...]

Would you care to let us know what you mean?

It is the Cause Celebre It is the Cause Du Jour.

It is the lead card in the current three card monte that will lead
your attention from what is actually important.

There are other fish to fry.
[...]

That is really confused and paranoid.

You seem to think that unspecified sinister forces are talking up global
warming as a smokescreen. A glance at the facts will tell you that the
opposite is true, that your government and your oil and power industries
have attempted to play down and deny the implications of climate change and
to silence the independant and international scientific reports which warn
of a real, deadly, dangerous problem.

You seem to think that the really dangerous issues are Iran and Iraq. A
glance at the facts will tell you that your government and press has
consistently talked up the jihadist threat, escalated the rhetoric against
the imaginary 'axis of evil', Used 911 as a justification for a desastrous
military enterprise on the other side of the world and is now leaking plans
to attack Iran.

So why do you think someone is using climate change to distract attention
from the middle east?

Tim #w

On Feb 24, 12:13 am, "
wrote:


correct email is:


You have mail.

r

"tom watson" wrote in message
...
I, like many of you, grew up in a global climate of fear, wherein we
were taught as little children to hide under our desks in response to
the fear of nuclear war.

I, like many of you, grew up listening to the harpies talking about
the Population Bomb.

I, like many of you, grew up thinking that we would never survive the
Silent Spring.

I, like many of you, grew up in a world where the USA made the cars
and everyone else bought them.

I, like you, grew up in a world where Barry Goldwater was a
Conservative and LBJ was a Liberal.

My children are not growing up in a world like you and I grew up in.

It is difficult for me to explain to them that history is often wrong
and that the home team is not always the hero.

When I was younger and smarter I described myself as a "Barry
Goldwater Democrat".

You old guys understand the complexity that underlies such a
statement.

Now I just stick to the old timey, "Fiscal Conservative - Social
Liberal", and live within the stresses that the definition implies.

Global Warming can kiss my ass. I'm a lot more worried about Persia
and Byzantium.


Well, if it weren't for global warming, I'd be sitting here drinking this
beer under 35 feet of ice.
That is, considering that there were 5 or 6 ice ages according to what I was
taught in school.
But then, they don't even teach what I was taught in school anymore.
Technology has proven that 90% of what the so-called scientists of the day
were calling fact was nothing more than the same BS as global warming today.
I wonder if we can ever believe anything we didn't live through.
My grandkids actually buy this crap, because they trust their teachers just
like we did.
They don't realize that the people who got their degrees without passing any
tests because they were minority or from a ghetto are now running the
education system. Because they couldn't cut it anywhere but there or in
politics. They don't even know the history other than the made up history of
today. I wonder if the history we were taught is valid? I doubt it. I do
know my dad was in the Philippines in WWII.
But other than that, I won't swear to anything else I didn't see myself. Of
course, we all saw JFK get shot on tv.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Feb 19, 10:51 pm, tom watson wrote:
I, like many of you, grew up in a global climate of fear, wherein we
were taught as little children to hide under our desks in response to
the fear of nuclear war.

The NPT has gone a long way toward restoring sanity. Just one nation
violated the treaty in order to develop nuclear warheads (North Korea)
- assuming they were indeed successful. Three nations with with
nuclear weapons never signed, Pakistan, India and Isreal. But who
cares, they have a return address. Of all Bushean foreign policy
blunders, the deal with India in violation of the NPT was undoubtedly
the worst.


I, like many of you, grew up listening to the harpies talking about
the Population Bomb.

While Ehrlich published this work in the late 60s, much of the
research took place during the decade prior to that. Yet there was one
data point he greatly overlooked: the birth control pill. Although
that wonder helped curb population growth, we should note that the
human population has almost doubled since then. Erlich also overlooked
the power of human innovation. Technological advances have made
possible the relatively comfortable absorbtion of all those people.


I, like many of you, grew up thinking that we would never survive the
Silent Spring.

Feel free to inhale large quantities of DDT. Given the evidence, I'd
rather not take my chances...


I, like many of you, grew up in a world where the USA made the cars
and everyone else bought them.

I'd like to see global sales numbers in support of this claim. I think
the biggest erosion of the Big Three's sales was never global but
national.

I, like you, grew up in a world where Barry Goldwater was a
Conservative and LBJ was a Liberal.

I'd call LBJ a progression and not a liberal.

My children are not growing up in a world like you and I grew up in.

Thankfully, that's been true for generations. Economic growth
continues unabated.


It is difficult for me to explain to them that history is often wrong
and that the home team is not always the hero.

I don't understand the claim that "history is often wrong" but when
the home team is the New York Jets, then they can do no wrong. Wait a
second, it's the Jets. The god damn Jets. (Okay, you got me on that
one...)


When I was younger and smarter I described myself as a "Barry
Goldwater Democrat".

Bah, I'm still a liberal. I will not surrender my liberty for safety.
I insist our leaders remain accountable to the rule of law. I'd prefer
structural legal protections even if 100 guilty men escape justice in
order to prevent the wrongful conviction of just one innocent man. I
am willing to accept a standing army as long as it's subservient to
civilian leadership and used in the defense of life, liberty and
property rights. And I remain a child of the Enlightenment.