I was recently talking to a gentleman who teaches woodworking classes
about face jointing, and he said that he hardly ever does it. He said
if he were making a dining room table or something similar, he would
face joint, but otherwise, he simply edge joints.

The lumber I typically use is 13/16" kiln dried random width cherry.
The place where he works sells the same wood, so I'm assuming he's
using what I'm using.

I recently built a shaker style sofa table, and I edge jointed, face
jointed one side, and then planed it to a uniform thickness.

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

wrote in message

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

That depends upon your definition of "pretty straight" and whether it suits
the needs of your project ... if you don't need to, don't.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/07/07

On 16 Feb 2007 06:57:59 -0800, wrote:

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

If it doesn't need it, sure. I usually run lumber for lamination
glue-ups through the planer just to ensure they're all the same
thickness. That's usually enough to remove any cupping as well.

------------------------------------------=o&o----
Steve Manes, Brooklyn, USA
www.magpie.com

Think about it. Why attempt to straiten something that's already strait?
wrote in message
ups.com...

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

Why don't you just put your jointer on e-bay right now?

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com



"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
Think about it. Why attempt to straiten something that's already strait?
wrote in message
ups.com...

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

In article . com, wrote:
I was recently talking to a gentleman who teaches woodworking classes
about face jointing, and he said that he hardly ever does it. He said
if he were making a dining room table or something similar, he would
face joint, but otherwise, he simply edge joints.

The lumber I typically use is 13/16" kiln dried random width cherry.
The place where he works sells the same wood, so I'm assuming he's
using what I'm using.

I recently built a shaker style sofa table, and I edge jointed, face
jointed one side, and then planed it to a uniform thickness.

Wrong order. Face joint first, then edge joint.

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

Depends on your standards. If you want straight lumber, then joint it. If
you're satisfied with "pretty straight", then don't bother.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

writes:
Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

I'm pretty sure you're not selecting straight lumber. And even if it
looks straight at the store, it's not going to be straight in your
shop. For table tops, I always buy rough stock and face joint it so I
know it's as flat as I can get it, and usually in two steps in case
there's internal tension. I.e. face it mostly, plane it mostly, let
it rest. Then face it the rest of the way, thickness it, and use it.

For reference, the sequence is: face joint, thickness plane, edge
joint, rip to width. Don't edge first.

On Feb 16, 10:40 am, DJ Delorie wrote:
writes:
Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

I'm pretty sure you're not selecting straight lumber. And even if it
looks straight at the store, it's not going to be straight in your
shop. For table tops, I always buy rough stock and face joint it so I
know it's as flat as I can get it, and usually in two steps in case
there's internal tension. I.e. face it mostly, plane it mostly, let
it rest. Then face it the rest of the way, thickness it, and use it.

For reference, the sequence is: face joint, thickness plane, edge
joint, rip to width. Don't edge first.

You outline the standard approach nicely. The only tidbit is that,
depending on wood species, it may be advisable to wait between the two
passes -- it does help with the internal stresses but it also takes a
while to get the humidity re-balanced. For table tops it really helps
if the wood can sit in the conditions to which the final piece will be
exposed. Taking the first face-joint pass off speeds the
aclimatization. I have an uncle who has for many (30+) years sworn by
keeping a small stickered pile of wood under his bed for just such
uses. Such behavior may be correlated with his divorces.

hex
-30-

For the record, I do, but I use mostly rough-cut stock.

I recently built a shaker style sofa table, and I edge jointed, face
jointed one side, and then planed it to a uniform thickness.

You should really face, then edge joint to ensure that ht edge is at 90
degrees to the face. The reverse does not work because the edge is not a big
enough reference surface

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

probably... it depends.

What's the big deal? You're already at the jointer. If it's a close to
straight board, it will take only 2 or 3 passes to go from rough to
reference surface which will probably save you a pass at the planer.

Having reread the original post, you are using 13/16 stock.... that suggests
S2S or S3S stock. That implies that it already has been face jointed by your
supplier. Has the wood moved since then? Maybe; probably not much.

-Steve





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Feb 16, 10:00 am, "Stephen M"
wrote:
For the record, I do, but I use mostly rough-cut stock.

I recently built a shaker style sofa table, and I edge jointed, face
jointed one side, and then planed it to a uniform thickness.

You should really face, then edge joint to ensure that ht edge is at 90
degrees to the face. The reverse does not work because the edge is not a big
enough reference surface

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

probably... it depends.

What's the big deal? You're already at the jointer. If it's a close to
straight board, it will take only 2 or 3 passes to go from rough to
reference surface which will probably save you a pass at the planer.

Having reread the original post, you are using 13/16 stock.... that suggests
S2S or S3S stock. That implies that it already has been face jointed by your
supplier. Has the wood moved since then? Maybe; probably not much.

-Steve

Thanks for the replies as well as the pointers about the order of
jointing.

On Feb 16, 4:00 pm, "Stephen M"
wrote:
For the record, I do, but I use mostly rough-cut stock.

I recently built a shaker style sofa table, and I edge jointed, face
jointed one side, and then planed it to a uniform thickness.

You should really face, then edge joint to ensure that ht edge is at 90
degrees to the face. The reverse does not work because the edge is not a big
enough reference surface

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

probably... it depends.

What's the big deal? You're already at the jointer. If it's a close to
straight board, it will take only 2 or 3 passes to go from rough to
reference surface which will probably save you a pass at the planer.

Having reread the original post, you are using 13/16 stock.... that suggests
S2S or S3S stock. That implies that it already has been face jointed by your
supplier. Has the wood moved since then? Maybe; probably not much.

oh boy...
JP

On Feb 16, 11:00?am, "Stephen M"
wrote:
For the record, I do, but I use mostly rough-cut stock.

I recently built a shaker style sofa table, and I edge jointed, face
jointed one side, and then planed it to a uniform thickness.

You should really face, then edge joint to ensure that ht edge is at 90
degrees to the face. The reverse does not work because the edge is not a big
enough reference surface

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

probably... it depends.

What's the big deal? You're already at the jointer. If it's a close to
straight board, it will take only 2 or 3 passes to go from rough to
reference surface which will probably save you a pass at the planer.

Having reread the original post, you are using 13/16 stock.... that suggests
S2S or S3S stock. That implies that it already has been face jointed by your
supplier. Has the wood moved since then? Maybe; probably not much.

-Steve

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com


When you are taking 2 or 3 passes on the jointer, do you alternate
cuts? Joint 1 side, flip the boaard over, and joint other side. I
read that this should be done so the wood dries out evenly, and less
likly to twist, cup, etc. What say about this? I have a lot to
learn, and have learned much from this group. Thanks to all.

Cliff

"sailor" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 16, 11:00?am, "Stephen M"
wrote:
For the record, I do, but I use mostly rough-cut stock.

I recently built a shaker style sofa table, and I edge jointed, face
jointed one side, and then planed it to a uniform thickness.

You should really face, then edge joint to ensure that ht edge is at 90
degrees to the face. The reverse does not work because the edge is not a
big
enough reference surface

Can I omit the face jointing if I'm selecting pretty straight lumber?

probably... it depends.

What's the big deal? You're already at the jointer. If it's a close to
straight board, it will take only 2 or 3 passes to go from rough to
reference surface which will probably save you a pass at the planer.

Having reread the original post, you are using 13/16 stock.... that
suggests
S2S or S3S stock. That implies that it already has been face jointed by
your
supplier. Has the wood moved since then? Maybe; probably not much.


When you are taking 2 or 3 passes on the jointer, do you alternate
cuts? Joint 1 side, flip the boaard over, and joint other side. I
read that this should be done so the wood dries out evenly, and less
likly to twist, cup, etc. What say about this? I have a lot to
learn, and have learned much from this group. Thanks to all.


One face is good. You'll be equalizing the passes on the other side when
you get to the planer. Good lumber doesn't normally get more than a look,
and to the planer stack. Glueups don't require the same straight stock that
door frames do. Where it counts, face for a reference and go to the planer.

"sailor" wrote in message

When you are taking 2 or 3 passes on the jointer, do you alternate
cuts? Joint 1 side, flip the boaard over, and joint other side. I
read that this should be done so the wood dries out evenly, and less
likly to twist, cup, etc. What say about this? I have a lot to
learn, and have learned much from this group. Thanks to all.

In order for a jointer to be used properly you need to use it in conjunction
with a planer unless you have a very specific reason for doing otherwise,
and only then with a good deal of care and experience, and on a well setup
machine.

To properly "dimension" the stock (thickness in the case of jointing a
face), do not joint both faces.

If you try to joint both faces, it is _highly_ likely that you will
introduce a *taper* into your stock, and it will likely get worse the more
passes you make.

The best way, particularly for the inexperienced, is to "Joint" one face
flat, then flip it and "Plane" the opposite face parallel to the now flat,
newly "jointed" face.

The jointer and planer, used together in the proper order, will insure that
your stock is of even thickness and the faces are parallel throughout its
length and width.

To do otherwise is best left to very experienced hands and special
circumstances.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/07/07

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 15:20:56 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

"sailor" wrote in message

When you are taking 2 or 3 passes on the jointer, do you alternate
cuts? Joint 1 side, flip the boaard over, and joint other side. I
read that this should be done so the wood dries out evenly, and less
likly to twist, cup, etc. What say about this? I have a lot to
learn, and have learned much from this group. Thanks to all.

In order for a jointer to be used properly you need to use it in conjunction
with a planer unless you have a very specific reason for doing otherwise,
and only then with a good deal of care and experience, and on a well setup
machine.

To properly "dimension" the stock (thickness in the case of jointing a
face), do not joint both faces.

If you try to joint both faces, it is _highly_ likely that you will
introduce a *taper* into your stock, and it will likely get worse the more
passes you make.

The best way, particularly for the inexperienced, is to "Joint" one face
flat, then flip it and "Plane" the opposite face parallel to the now flat,
newly "jointed" face.

The jointer and planer, used together in the proper order, will insure that
your stock is of even thickness and the faces are parallel throughout its
length and width.

To do otherwise is best left to very experienced hands and special
circumstances.

Not sure exactly what you mean by "to do otherwise". I don't have a
jointer, for a combination of space and financial reasons, but have
used rough stock plenty of times in the past. I'm just as careful as
I can be about buying rough stock that is as flat as I can get it, and
it generally comes out fine using only the planer.

If something is *really* warped, then I hand plane it first. I might
get a jointer someday, but it's not high on the list of priorities.
It's a machine that is fairly simple to work around, and not strictly
necessary for all but the "very experienced".

That being said, if I ever happen to run across a large amount of
rough-cut lumber for the right price, I am positive I'll change my
tune pretty quickly. For now, buying S3S makes the jointer a little
redundant.

"Prometheus" wrote in message
Not sure exactly what you mean by "to do otherwise". I don't have a
jointer, for a combination of space and financial reasons, but have
used rough stock plenty of times in the past. I'm just as careful as
I can be about buying rough stock that is as flat as I can get it, and
it generally comes out fine using only the planer.

I have the same reasons. To get the cheapest 6" jointer, it will cost me
about $2000 and many hours of labor.

For the most part, I'm able to buy wood that I can go right to the planer,
or I have it jointed when I buy it. OTOH, I've seen some lower priced wood
that has been air dried but would take a bit of fiddling around to use
without a jointer.

"sailor" wrote in message
oups.com...

When you are taking 2 or 3 passes on the jointer, do you alternate
cuts? Joint 1 side, flip the boaard over, and joint other side. I
read that this should be done so the wood dries out evenly, and less
likly to twist, cup, etc. What say about this? I have a lot to
learn, and have learned much from this group. Thanks to all.
There would be no point. The sole purpose in life of a jointer is to produce
a strait edge. It is a prep machine for other machines. That's it. Never
could see owning one myself for as little as it does.

"CW" wrote in message

There would be no point. The sole purpose in life of a jointer is to
produce
a strait edge. It is a prep machine for other machines. That's it. Never
could see owning one myself for as little as it does.

As mean a SOB as you are, I'd sworn you had one just to shave with!




--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/07/07

That's what the drawknife is for.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"CW" wrote in message

There would be no point. The sole purpose in life of a jointer is to
produce
a strait edge. It is a prep machine for other machines. That's it. Never
could see owning one myself for as little as it does.

As mean a SOB as you are, I'd sworn you had one just to shave with!




--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/07/07

There would be no point. The sole purpose in life of a jointer is to
produce
a strait edge. It is a prep machine for other machines. That's it. Never
could see owning one myself for as little as it does.

Ah, now I get it. You go straight from the TS to glue up, not by choice,
but because you don't own a jointer!! LOL

New rule: You can't give advice on the use of a tool if you have never
owned said tool.

The jointer is far from "a prep machine for other machines". I find it
indispensable in my shop.

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...


There would be no point. The sole purpose in life of a jointer is to
produce
a strait edge. It is a prep machine for other machines. That's it. Never
could see owning one myself for as little as it does.

Ah, now I get it. You go straight from the TS to glue up, not by choice,
but because you don't own a jointer!! LOL


I don't own a machine shop either but I can, and do, turn out work that
would make Lie-Neilson jealous. I don't own a jointer because I don't need
one.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 19:00:00 -0500, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:



There would be no point. The sole purpose in life of a jointer is to
produce
a strait edge. It is a prep machine for other machines. That's it. Never
could see owning one myself for as little as it does.

Not the sole purpose- they can also rabbet edges, but so can other
tools.

Ah, now I get it. You go straight from the TS to glue up, not by choice,
but because you don't own a jointer!! LOL

That's not terribly funny. It says more about your table saw use than
CW's lack of a jointer, really. It's also ignoring the two major
workarounds for edge jointing that anyone with a table saw or a router
table can use. If you know those, it's not that tough to edge joint
with a blade or straight bit- and it then *is* a matter of choice to
either go straight from the saw to glue-up or to joint the edges
first. It's a matter of confidence in your ability to accurately cut
the material the first time. If you need to cut oversize then sneak
up on the final dimension, there is nothing inherantly wrong with
that- but it certainly does not give you an elevated place to stand
where you can laugh at others.

New rule: You can't give advice on the use of a tool if you have never
owned said tool.

Sure you can. Anyone who has worked in a wood shop, or even a decent
construction outfit, is bound to have used more than a few tools they
don't personally own. I've used a number of panel saws, for instance-
but I couldn't justify the cost to buy one for at home. You can
believe it or not, and I don't care which- but every shop I've worked
in has had a jointer.... on a mobile base, and shoved into the corner
where it sits untouched for years at a time. Don't get me wrong,
they have their uses- but they're not as indispensible as you make
them out to be.

The jointer is far from "a prep machine for other machines". I find it
indispensable in my shop.

Weren't you the guy using precision measurement tools to set up your
saw? You should have a glue ready cut easily using a rig like that.
No need to fix perfect, right?

In article .com, "sailor" wrote:

When you are taking 2 or 3 passes on the jointer, do you alternate
cuts? Joint 1 side, flip the boaard over, and joint other side.

No. Joint one side, then *plane* the other. *After* you're finished jointing.

I read that this should be done so the wood dries out evenly, and less
likly to twist, cup, etc. What say about this?

You have the right idea, but I think you've misunderstood the process for
getting there. You're right that wood should be removed in approximately equal
amounts from each face, and for exactly the reason that you stated.

The purpose of face jointing is to make one face straight and flat. You
*cannot* make the second face straight, flat, *and* parallel to the first one
with a jointer. That's what a thickness planer does.

Trying to do that with a jointer is pointless at best. At worst, you may ruin
the board by tapering it too much.

So joint one face until it's flat. Then thickness-plane the opposite face
until you've removed about the same amount of material. *Then* start
alternating faces (by flipping the board end-for-end) as you continue to plane
the board to final thickness.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Feb 17, 5:06�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .com, "sailor" wrote:

When you are taking 2 or 3 passes on the jointer, do you alternate
cuts? Joint 1 side, flip the boaard over, and joint other side. *

No. Joint one side, then *plane* the other. *After* you're finished jointing.

I read that this should be done so the wood dries out evenly, and less
likly to twist, cup, etc. * What say about this?

You have the right idea, but I think you've misunderstood the process for
getting there. You're right that wood should be removed in approximately equal
amounts from each face, and for exactly the reason that you stated.

The purpose of face jointing is to make one face straight and flat. You
*cannot* make the second face straight, flat, *and* parallel to the first one
with a jointer. That's what a thickness planer does.

Trying to do that with a jointer is pointless at best. At worst, you may ruin
the board by tapering it too much.

So joint one face until it's flat. Then thickness-plane the opposite face
until you've removed about the same amount of material. *Then* start
alternating faces (by flipping the board end-for-end) as you continue to plane
the board to final thickness.

--
Regards,
* * * * Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug, Thanks a lot, that makes a lot of sense.
Cliff

In article . com, "sailor" wrote:
On Feb 17, 5:06=EF=BF=BDpm, (Doug Miller) wrote:

So joint one face until it's flat. Then thickness-plane the opposite face
until you've removed about the same amount of material. *Then* start
alternating faces (by flipping the board end-for-end) as you continue to plane
the board to final thickness.

Doug, Thanks a lot, that makes a lot of sense.

You're welcome. I should add one more thing to clarify: thickness-plane the
opposite face until you've removed about the same amount of material, *and*
that face is straight and flat along its entire length. *Then* start
alternating faces, etc. etc.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article ,
says...
Having reread the original post, you are using 13/16 stock.... that suggests
S2S or S3S stock. That implies that it already has been face jointed by your
supplier.

It implies no such thing. S2S or S3S lumber has been *planed* on both
faces. It has *not* been jointed.

Doug Miller wrote:

It implies no such thing. S2S or S3S lumber has been *planed* on both
faces. It has *not* been jointed.

Okay Doug ... now you got me confused. Just exactly -what- was done to
the 3rd face in S3S?


Bill
--
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one
rascal less in the world.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)
http://nmwoodworks.com

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

It implies no such thing. S2S or S3S lumber has been *planed* on both
faces. It has *not* been jointed.

Okay Doug ... now you got me confused. Just exactly -what- was done to the
3rd face in S3S?


It's been run through the equivalent of your shaper on the one edge. It's
often done on the same machine while planing, so straight ahead is pretty
much determined by the feed, not the fence. Edge saws probably make a
straighter edge, at least initially, until the board begins to dry.

In article , Bill in Detroit wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

It implies no such thing. S2S or S3S lumber has been *planed* on both
faces. It has *not* been jointed.

Okay Doug ... now you got me confused. Just exactly -what- was done to
the 3rd face in S3S?

Depends on what you mean by the "third face". :-)

S3S lumber has been:
1) planed on one face
2) flipped over and planed on the other face
3) straight-line ripped on one edge.

Stop after step 2 and it's S2S.

At *no* point is a jointer involved.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.