Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign a
waiver ;-)

Thanks,

Phred

Only time I ever used one of those cartridge powered nailer was a complete
failure. Trying to attach some brackets to a concrete wall. All it did was
blow chunks out. It probably would have worked in finer concrete but this
stuff had rocks in it about 1" diameter.

"Phred" wrote in message
...
Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign a
waiver ;-)

Thanks,

Phred

Phred wrote:

Phred wrote:


I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

Talk to Hilti.

This is the tool that built the company.

Lew

I have used a hilti,worked very well but they are expensive to buy. I have a
cheep remington that is not quite as nice to use(needs a good hammer blow to
shoot the nail) but gets the job done. You have to do some experimenting as
to what charge to use and what length of nail to use. If you are blowing out
chunks of concrete you are using too long of nails or too high of charge. To
give you some idea as to length of nail it can be as short on one quarter
inch longer than the material nailed is thick.
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Phred wrote:


I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

Talk to Hilti.

This is the tool that built the company.

Lew

A PAT (powder actuated tool) can be a great tool. They are touchy
about strength of powder charge, consistency of concrete, length
of fastener. They can break out concrete if you are close to the
edge, such as the joint along the wall.

You've not said just what you were trying to do. Are you shooting
the base plate into the floor? Are you nailing furring strips on
the wall?

I would not use a PAT (even though I own one) as first choice for
general fastening. Save it for special things like steel and base
plates in good concrete. A really good, SDS type hammer drill
would be a better purchase in my opinion. You can either use the
Tapcon type screws (expensive) or put in a piece of copper
electrician's wire with the insulation on to hold a nail or screw.
If you size this stuff appropriately, you will need a 3 foot
crowbar to get them out!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
A live singing Valentine,
the most romantic thing you can do with your clothes on
(local)
http://www.singingvalentines.com/ (national)


"Phred" wrote in message
...
Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was
wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and
parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate
foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same
in
both using the gun?

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but
frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure
never
seemed to hold right.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not
so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign
a
waiver ;-)

Thanks,

Phred

A powder gun is marginal on aged concrete and may not hold very well
in porous cinder block. The aged concrete will tend to spall or pock,
leaving less nail in contact with something to hold it.

The answer is ROTARY HAMMER. Not a hammer drill, rotary hammer. Bosch
makes several in the 7/8" to 1" range that should do the trick in no
time. I drill through the wood and continue into the concrete behind.
Remove the bit from the hole and drive in an anchor (with the nut and
washer already installed) with a framing hammer or drilling hammer
(3#).

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:33:50 -0500, Phred
wrote:

Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign a
waiver ;-)

Thanks,

Phred

My experience has been that it is better to nail/screw into the
mortar between the cinder blocks. However my preferred
method now is to glue the wood framing to the concrete with
construction adhesive or silicone rubber. This never blows
out and holds extremely well. You will need to wire brush the
surface of the concrete first but this isn't a big task with a drill
mounted brush.

Art

"Phred" wrote in message
...
Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign a
waiver ;-)

Thanks,

Phred

I'd have to agree with the others in using a rotary hammer instead of the
gun. These powder guns are more suited for use in "green" concrete, but is
pretty hit or miss in old concrete, cement or cinder blocks, and worthless
in brick. I've had the best luck with "number 3" loads for the .22 caliber
guns made by Remington. Hilti guns use .25 caliber loads and are not as
readily availiable. The fasteners however will fit both brands. Using the
gun in older concrete may prove to just blow out a chunk of concrete and
leave the fastener loose in a large hole. I now use a Bosch rotary hammer
like this one for basement remodeling:
http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Recond...7?ie=UTF8&s=hi
You can also purchase a tapcon (the blue screws) install set from Bosch
that comes with two drill bits and a driver that fits over the bits. It
allows you to drill the hole, slide the driver sleeve over the bit, and
drive the tapcon. Pretty quick to install plates for a wall on a concrete
floor. Or furring strips on a block wall. You can drill holes for wedge
anchors or wedge screws easily with this tool if needed. And the drill can
be fitted with a chisel and set to just "hammer" thus creating a small
jackhammer if you find the need to demo some brick walls or chisel out some
concrete.
I will say this, I miss the smell of gunpowder from using the .22 cal guns
though, but not enough to trade in my rotary drill. --dave


"Phred" wrote in message
...
Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign a
waiver ;-)

Thanks,

Phred

My experience has been that it is better to nail/screw into the
mortar between the cinder blocks. However my preferred
method now is to glue the wood framing to the concrete with
construction adhesive or silicone rubber. This never blows
out and holds extremely well. You will need to wire brush the
surface of the concrete first but this isn't a big task with a drill
mounted brush.

Art

"Phred" wrote in message
...
Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign a
waiver ;-)

Thanks,

Phred

Phred wrote in
:

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I just used a RamSet-brand gun to fasten 3/4 plywood to a concrete floor as
a underlayment for a solid wood floor. 95% of the nails held just fine. The
other 5% pulled back out, and I had to move over a few inches and shoot
again. This is in a 30-year-old house. We put in about 150 nails for the
whole room. I'm surprised the neighbors didn't report us to the police.

When I first used one to fasten down plate on

Phred wrote in
:

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I just used a RamSet-brand gun to fasten 3/4 plywood to a concrete floor as
a underlayment for a solid wood floor. 95% of the nails held just fine. The
other 5% pulled back out, and I had to move over a few inches and shoot
again. This is in a 30-year-old house. We put in about 150 nails for the
whole room. I'm surprised the neighbors didn't report us to the police.

When I first used one to fasten down plate on a 10-day-old Habitat for
Humanity house, every nail went in and held.

Worked fantastically for me. I made the mistake of using
the highest charge first, and ran the nail right through
the floor plate. The lowest charge turned out to be fine.
I was amazed at how easy it was.

Phred wrote:

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:33:50 -0500, Phred
wrote:

Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

Not really... but they should hold in each. The difference will come
in powder loads in the blanks. Get at least one box of each load, so
you can test. Too much powder will chip the material out when you
shoot them, not enough will not drive the nail (If this happens, you
can usually finish driving them with a hand sledge) It never hurts to
run a bead of construction adhesive before nailing, either. Expect to
split at least one or two studs, so overbuy accordingly.

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

Those are a PITA, but they will work the best. Of course, that kind
of holding power isn't always needed when you're setting firring
strips.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign a
waiver ;-)

Don't know how much they are to rent, but they're not that expensive
to buy, either- provided you get the type that you whack with a
hammer, and not something with a trigger mechanism. Get yourself some
good earplugs as well- it'll be really loud.

Phred writes:

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

I tried those blue screws in my concrete floor and they kept snapping. I
next tried one of those $20 Remington tools and it either wouldn't fire
when hit or it wouldn't drive all the way.

I finally rented a Hilti PAT with trigger from Home Depot and it worked
with no problems.

Brian Elfert

Arvid Sorsdahl wrote:

I have used a hilti,worked very well but they are expensive to buy. I have a
cheep remington that is not quite as nice to use(needs a good hammer blow to
shoot the nail) but gets the job done. You have to do some experimenting as
to what charge to use and what length of nail to use. If you are blowing out
chunks of concrete you are using too long of nails or too high of charge. To
give you some idea as to length of nail it can be as short on one quarter
inch longer than the material nailed is thick.

Home Depot rents Hilti nail guns.

The good Hilti guns have a pressure adjustment which allows you to fine
tune the driving force which is great when one load doesn't set the pin
far enough and the next higher load sets it too far. Just use the larger
load and dial it down a bit.

Pete C.

Prometheus wrote:

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:33:50 -0500, Phred
wrote:

Hey all:

Happy New Year!

Quick question before I start boozing it up.

I have been wanting to refinish parts of my basement and was wondering
how good those 22 caliber nail guns do. I have a old house and parts
of the basement differ with age. The main part is aggregate foundation
with others being filled cinder block. Would studs hold the same in
both using the gun?

Not really... but they should hold in each. The difference will come
in powder loads in the blanks. Get at least one box of each load, so
you can test. Too much powder will chip the material out when you
shoot them, not enough will not drive the nail (If this happens, you
can usually finish driving them with a hand sledge) It never hurts to
run a bead of construction adhesive before nailing, either. Expect to
split at least one or two studs, so overbuy accordingly.

I did one portion with those long blue concrete screws but frankly, it
was a PITA to drill the aggregate, and the studs, while secure never
seemed to hold right.

Those are a PITA, but they will work the best. Of course, that kind
of holding power isn't always needed when you're setting firring
strips.

The local Home Despot have the 22 caliber nail to rent for not so much
money, plus the price of ammunition. I am sure I will have sign a
waiver ;-)

Don't know how much they are to rent, but they're not that expensive
to buy, either- provided you get the type that you whack with a
hammer, and not something with a trigger mechanism. Get yourself some
good earplugs as well- it'll be really loud.

If you rent a good Hilti gun you hardly need earplugs, they are fairly
well silenced. Well, unless you're shooting electrical boxes onto I
beams, those are loud no matter what.

Pete C.