I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff, replaced em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on Wreck had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or replace
plate and router....


Mike

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message
...
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by
hand (checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted
stray dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff, replaced
em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on Wreck
had one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or
replace plate and router....


Mike


Call Triton direct. They are very helpful.

How can that be? Triton got top marks in a recent issue of FWW. I'm
appalled.


Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff, replaced em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on Wreck had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or replace
plate and router....


Mike

Dick,

And so they should - I have given this unit an absolute hammering - and have
been happy in all respects except for large horizontal panel raising bit
that wont fit thru base. It has been a work horse, and served well...


Leon,

Tried Triton - pointed to service agent, I am out in the country - so
would need to get it there, and back. Freight being investigated now, but
I look to be up for $60 in freight, plus parts/labour - it very quickly adds
up to a balance point...as in buy a new drill with new batteries in lieu
re-pack type scenario.

I gather you would still replace your TRC with same?

Mike


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can that be? Triton got top marks in a recent issue of FWW. I'm
appalled.


Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by
hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff, replaced
em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on Wreck
had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or
replace
plate and router....


Mike

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message
...

Leon,

Tried Triton - pointed to service agent, I am out in the country - so
would need to get it there, and back. Freight being investigated now,
but I look to be up for $60 in freight, plus parts/labour - it very
quickly adds up to a balance point...as in buy a new drill with new
batteries in lieu re-pack type scenario.

I gather you would still replace your TRC with same?

Mike



Yeah I hear you now. Yes, today I would replace with the same as there is
nothing on the market at the current time that I feel is any better.
Besides that, the price has come down quite a bit since I bought mine 3 or
so years ago. $214 at Woodcraft is hard to beat for a big router.

My sarcasm was mostly my disappointment that FWW did NOT include the
3hp Porter-Cable in their roundup.


Mike Richardson wrote:
Dick,

And so they should - I have given this unit an absolute hammering - and have
been happy in all respects except for large horizontal panel raising bit
that wont fit thru base. It has been a work horse, and served well...


Leon,

Tried Triton - pointed to service agent, I am out in the country - so
would need to get it there, and back. Freight being investigated now, but
I look to be up for $60 in freight, plus parts/labour - it very quickly adds
up to a balance point...as in buy a new drill with new batteries in lieu
re-pack type scenario.

I gather you would still replace your TRC with same?

Mike


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can that be? Triton got top marks in a recent issue of FWW. I'm
appalled.


Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by
hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff, replaced
em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on Wreck
had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or
replace
plate and router....


Mike

Yes, thats my feeling also, I have a couple of other brands, and I
definately think I would replace either of them with a Triton. So,
probably I will buy one, send the other away to boarding school, and when he
gets back, I will have another GOOD spare.

Mike

"Leon" wrote in message
. net...

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message
...

Leon,

Tried Triton - pointed to service agent, I am out in the country - so
would need to get it there, and back. Freight being investigated now,
but I look to be up for $60 in freight, plus parts/labour - it very
quickly adds up to a balance point...as in buy a new drill with new
batteries in lieu re-pack type scenario.

I gather you would still replace your TRC with same?

Mike



Yeah I hear you now. Yes, today I would replace with the same as there is
nothing on the market at the current time that I feel is any better.
Besides that, the price has come down quite a bit since I bought mine 3 or
so years ago. $214 at Woodcraft is hard to beat for a big router.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
My sarcasm was mostly my disappointment that FWW did NOT include the
3hp Porter-Cable in their roundup.


If you are talking about the recent article, they mentioned that the only
routers to be included in the comparison were strictly new generation and
specifically built to fit under a router table.

Contributing editor Roland Johnson tested a new generation of routers with
a specialized base that promise the convenient above-the-table bit
adjustment of a router lift without the expense.

Dick,

Send me one - I will gladly test it to destruction and write a
review..:-)

Carbatec here used to hold them, but don't anymore. Perhaps not enought
240v market for them?

Mike

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
My sarcasm was mostly my disappointment that FWW did NOT include the
3hp Porter-Cable in their roundup.


Mike Richardson wrote:
Dick,

And so they should - I have given this unit an absolute hammering - and
have
been happy in all respects except for large horizontal panel raising bit
that wont fit thru base. It has been a work horse, and served well...


Leon,

Tried Triton - pointed to service agent, I am out in the country - so
would need to get it there, and back. Freight being investigated now,
but
I look to be up for $60 in freight, plus parts/labour - it very quickly
adds
up to a balance point...as in buy a new drill with new batteries in lieu
re-pack type scenario.

I gather you would still replace your TRC with same?

Mike


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can that be? Triton got top marks in a recent issue of FWW. I'm
appalled.


Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have
been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by
hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted
stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff,
replaced
em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short
of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on
Wreck
had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I
should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or
replace
plate and router....


Mike

Oh, I missed that detail. Seems like he should have compared to the old
generation, too.


Leon wrote:
"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
My sarcasm was mostly my disappointment that FWW did NOT include the
3hp Porter-Cable in their roundup.


If you are talking about the recent article, they mentioned that the only
routers to be included in the comparison were strictly new generation and
specifically built to fit under a router table.

Contributing editor Roland Johnson tested a new generation of routers with
a specialized base that promise the convenient above-the-table bit
adjustment of a router lift without the expense.

Don't know why Carbatec doesn't carry them anymore. Do they carry only
Triton? If so, I suspect there's some nationalism at play. If not, I
apologize for even thinking that.

BTW, not sure where you got ht e240V thing. My Porter-Cable 3 hp 7518
is 120v. It is a very good router although it does not have the "new
generation" of above the tale fine adjustments -- it's more for the
router lift crowd.


Mike Richardson wrote:
Dick,

Send me one - I will gladly test it to destruction and write a
review..:-)

Carbatec here used to hold them, but don't anymore. Perhaps not enought
240v market for them?

Mike

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
My sarcasm was mostly my disappointment that FWW did NOT include the
3hp Porter-Cable in their roundup.


Mike Richardson wrote:
Dick,

And so they should - I have given this unit an absolute hammering - and
have
been happy in all respects except for large horizontal panel raising bit
that wont fit thru base. It has been a work horse, and served well...


Leon,

Tried Triton - pointed to service agent, I am out in the country - so
would need to get it there, and back. Freight being investigated now,
but
I look to be up for $60 in freight, plus parts/labour - it very quickly
adds
up to a balance point...as in buy a new drill with new batteries in lieu
re-pack type scenario.

I gather you would still replace your TRC with same?

Mike


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can that be? Triton got top marks in a recent issue of FWW. I'm
appalled.


Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have
been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by
hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted
stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff,
replaced
em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short
of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on
Wreck
had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I
should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or
replace
plate and router....


Mike

Dick,

Confusion - what I meant was, perhaps OUR requirement for 220/240 volt
does not mean enough market for Porter Cable. Carbatec carry Triton and
Axminster and Festo now.

I certainly would look to a PC in my stable if they had local
representation, was just again on web looking at their site/specs.

Mike

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
Don't know why Carbatec doesn't carry them anymore. Do they carry only
Triton? If so, I suspect there's some nationalism at play. If not, I
apologize for even thinking that.

BTW, not sure where you got ht e240V thing. My Porter-Cable 3 hp 7518
is 120v. It is a very good router although it does not have the "new
generation" of above the tale fine adjustments -- it's more for the
router lift crowd.


Mike Richardson wrote:
Dick,

Send me one - I will gladly test it to destruction and write a
review..:-)

Carbatec here used to hold them, but don't anymore. Perhaps not
enought
240v market for them?

Mike

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
My sarcasm was mostly my disappointment that FWW did NOT include the
3hp Porter-Cable in their roundup.


Mike Richardson wrote:
Dick,

And so they should - I have given this unit an absolute hammering -
and
have
been happy in all respects except for large horizontal panel raising
bit
that wont fit thru base. It has been a work horse, and served well...


Leon,

Tried Triton - pointed to service agent, I am out in the country -
so
would need to get it there, and back. Freight being investigated
now,
but
I look to be up for $60 in freight, plus parts/labour - it very
quickly
adds
up to a balance point...as in buy a new drill with new batteries in
lieu
re-pack type scenario.

I gather you would still replace your TRC with same?

Mike


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
How can that be? Triton got top marks in a recent issue of FWW. I'm
appalled.


Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they
have
been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely
by
hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted
stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff,
replaced
em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but
short
of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on
Wreck
had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I
should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it -
or
replace
plate and router....


Mike

Sorry for the confusion. I just re-read the article in FWW and
certainly the Triton deserves good marks. I was a little disappointed
in what FWW said about the Milwaukee 5625-20. I really like the feel of
it. Also I prefer fixed based routers under the table....All this
discussion make me thing I should start a new discussion on routers.
Look for my post entilled "Time to re-evaluate router-table routers?"

On Dec 29, 6:03 pm, "Mike Richardson"
wrote:
Dick,

Confusion - what I meant was, perhaps OUR requirement for 220/240 volt
does not mean enough market for Porter Cable. Carbatec carry Triton and
Axminster and Festo now.

I certainly would look to a PC in my stable if they had local
representation, was just again on web looking at their site/specs.

Mike

"Never Enough Money" wrote in ooglegroups.com...

Don't know why Carbatec doesn't carry them anymore. Do they carry only
Triton? If so, I suspect there's some nationalism at play. If not, I
apologize for even thinking that.

BTW, not sure where you got ht e240V thing. My Porter-Cable 3 hp 7518
is 120v. It is a very good router although it does not have the "new
generation" of above the tale fine adjustments -- it's more for the
router lift crowd.

Mike Richardson wrote:
Dick,

Send me one - I will gladly test it to destruction and write a
review..:-)

Carbatec here used to hold them, but don't anymore. Perhaps not
enought
240v market for them?

Mike

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
groups.com...
My sarcasm was mostly my disappointment that FWW did NOT include the
3hp Porter-Cable in their roundup.

Mike Richardson wrote:
Dick,

And so they should - I have given this unit an absolute hammering -
and
have
been happy in all respects except for large horizontal panel raising
bit
that wont fit thru base. It has been a work horse, and served well...

Leon,

Tried Triton - pointed to service agent, I am out in the country -
so
would need to get it there, and back. Freight being investigated
now,
but
I look to be up for $60 in freight, plus parts/labour - it very
quickly
adds
up to a balance point...as in buy a new drill with new batteries in
lieu
re-pack type scenario.

I gather you would still replace your TRC with same?

Mike

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
groups.com...
How can that be? Triton got top marks in a recent issue of FWW. I'm
appalled.

Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they
have
been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely
by
hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted
stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff,
replaced
em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but
short
of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on
Wreck
had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I
should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it -
or
replace
plate and router....

Mike

Don't you mean your 2 1/3 horsepower 7518?

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message

My Porter-Cable 3 hp 7518
is 120v.

No, I just checked -- It's 3.25 HP.

Pat Warner gives it high marks. See
http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html.

On Dec 29, 6:23 pm, "CW" wrote:
Don't you mean your 2 1/3 horsepower 7518?

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message

My Porter-Cable 3 hp 7518
is 120v.

Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff, replaced em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on Wreck had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or replace
plate and router....


Mike


Did you check that both legs of the 240v circuit are hot? The light may
well run off one leg (at least in the US). I had a similar problem with
a 240v pool pump once. The breaker had failed and only supplied power to
one leg.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Always remember that you are unique.
Just like everyone else.

Gerald,

Point runs another router just fine, but thanks for idea.

Mike


"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
. com...
Mike Richardson wrote:
I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by
hand (checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted
stray dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff, replaced
em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on Wreck
had one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or
replace plate and router....


Mike


Did you check that both legs of the 240v circuit are hot? The light may
well run off one leg (at least in the US). I had a similar problem with a
240v pool pump once. The breaker had failed and only supplied power to one
leg.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Always remember that you are unique.
Just like everyone else.

There is not a 3.25 horsepower, 120 volt router on the market. Physically
impossible. In the same class as the 5 horsepower shop vac.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
No, I just checked -- It's 3.25 HP.

Pat Warner gives it high marks. See
http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html.

On Dec 29, 6:23 pm, "CW" wrote:
Don't you mean your 2 1/3 horsepower 7518?

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message

My Porter-Cable 3 hp 7518
is 120v.

Hmmm. Not what it says on Amazon. See
http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-7...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi

What's up with that?

On Dec 29, 6:57 pm, "CW" wrote:
There is not a 3.25 horsepower, 120 volt router on the market. Physically
impossible. In the same class as the 5 horsepower shop vac.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in ooglegroups.com...

No, I just checked -- It's 3.25 HP.

Pat Warner gives it high marks. See
http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html.

On Dec 29, 6:23 pm, "CW" wrote:
Don't you mean your 2 1/3 horsepower 7518?

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message

My Porter-Cable 3 hp 7518
is 120v.

Goes to show, Amazon lies too. Actually, Amazon just repeats what the
manufacturer says. You can't get more power out than you put in (if you
figure a way to do that, you have solved the perpetual motion problem). 3
horsepower equals 2238 watts. 15 amps at 120 volts equals 1800 watts.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hmmm. Not what it says on Amazon. See

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-7...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi

What's up with that?

Hmmm. Then we better check all of them. How does Triton and Milwaukee
get more than 3 HP?

On Dec 29, 7:25 pm, "CW" wrote:
Goes to show, Amazon lies too. Actually, Amazon just repeats what the
manufacturer says. You can't get more power out than you put in (if you
figure a way to do that, you have solved the perpetual motion problem). 3
horsepower equals 2238 watts. 15 amps at 120 volts equals 1800 watts.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in ooglegroups.com... Hmmm. Not what it says on Amazon. Seehttp://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-7518-Speedmatic-Horsepower-5-Speed...



What's up with that?

They don't. They don't even get to 2.5.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hmmm. Then we better check all of them. How does Triton and Milwaukee
get more than 3 HP?

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message
...
Dick,

Confusion - what I meant was, perhaps OUR requirement for 220/240 volt
does not mean enough market for Porter Cable. Carbatec carry Triton and
Axminster and Festo now.

I certainly would look to a PC in my stable if they had local
representation, was just again on web looking at their site/specs.

In the Houston area 2 of my main suppliers and a 3rd that I know of are
dropping or have dropped Delta/PC.
Apparently the 3rd dropped Delta because Delta ran an ad that indicated that
the #1 place to buy Delta was at Lowe's. Steel City is starting to show up
as a replacement.

Mike Richardson wrote:

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or replace
plate and router....


Mike

Mike, would it be possible to jumper around the switch? Sudden failure,
smooth spinning, no smoke, brushes not showing damage (I presume you
also took a peek at the armature). Hmmm ... doesn't seem likely that the
router is getting juice.

Bill

--
There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates, and the glare
that obscures.
James Thurber


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I have one, but touch wood, it has given me flawless service.

From the sound of your symptoms, I'd suspect a problem with the little
electronics board that does the soft start/speed control.

Hard to know what the best course is, maybe buy another identical one,
and get the other fixed when you are next in town?

Barry Lennox



On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:27:56 GMT, "Mike Richardson"
wrote:

I have had a Triton 2400w router in a table for as long as they have been
available.

Went in today, plugged in - light on on switch - no go.

Checked full movement of switch cover, mechanism is spinning freely by hand
(checked with lead off), took top cover off, cleaned and extracted stray
dust, checked connections to speed control.

Took both brushes out - they were in goot nick, gave em a buff, replaced em.

Absolutely no life - its as if the safety off is locked off, but short of
disassembling entirely (I started and said waaaiiit) - any body on Wreck had
one stop completely?

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or replace
plate and router....


Mike

Bill,

It probably would, but - well I am not very informed on things
electrical, and would not want to take a chance on doing anything silly.
Your guess seems right - I figure the speed control - which I looked at -
its an epoxy filled block, or the cut out on the switch guard. Def no
problem with brishes/armature/bearings etc - its a switching on/isolation
issue.

I might feel more confident next look (lol)

Mike



"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Mike Richardson wrote:

Service agents are some distance from me, and I am pondering if I should
replace it - and that begs the question - should I stay with it - or
replace
plate and router....


Mike

Mike, would it be possible to jumper around the switch? Sudden failure,
smooth spinning, no smoke, brushes not showing damage (I presume you
also took a peek at the armature). Hmmm ... doesn't seem likely that the
router is getting juice.

Bill

--
There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates, and the glare
that obscures.
James Thurber


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0665-0, 12/29/2006
Tested on: 12/30/2006 2:44:32 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

I found a "horsepower-amps-volts" clarification posted to this
newsgroup by John T. Horner. There's probably other good ones, too. I
thought it would be constructive to repeat it here, especially for
those ignorant of the horsepower-amp-volts thing, like me. John said
(with some minor edits by me)

First, Sears isn't the only company to use the misleading Developed
Power labeling .... but may be the most egregious about it.

"Developed" horsepower is much like "Peak RMS Power" was in the world
of amplifiers. In the US the advertising of "Peak Power" was outlawed
in the 1970s as misleading advertising.

"Developed" horsepower is calculated by jamming the motor in a stall
(not rotating) and turning on the power. The power drawn by the motor
under those conditions (amps x volts = watts) is measured. The
measurement is then converted to horsepower though the conversion 1
horsepower = 746 watts. A 3 "Developed Horsepower" motor is thus one
which draws 2,238 watts at a dead stall. Using standard 115 volt house
wiring we have 19.5 amps being drawn at a stall. A plain 6.12 ohm
resistor of sufficient power dissipation capacity (that is one very
physically large resistor!) thus also "Develops" 3 horsepower. Of
course this is all pure Horsepucky.

Electric motors are not 100% efficient at converting electrical power
into rotational mechanical power. Real "rated" horsepower is measured
as the mechanical power output of the motor at speed and under load.
The www.baldor.com site has good information on the specifications of
their ac motors for background reading if anyone is interested. An
excellent (big bucks!) single phase motor might have a full load
efficiency of 80%. The more common ones are in the range of 55% to
70%.

Now let us do some simple math:

A true 3 horsepower motor of 65% efficiency running at full load needs
(3HP X 746 watts/HP)/0.65 eff = 3,443 watts input power. At 115 volts
this implies 29.94 amps, obviously a serious overload for a standard 15
amp wall socket. At 230 volts the current draw drops to 14.97 amps,
within the capabilities of a 230 volt, 20 amp feed.

Doing the same calculations for a 1.5 HP motor you need about 15 amps
at 115 volts. Thus a power tool with a 1.5 HP motor running on 115
volts should be connected to a 20 amp circuit, not a 15 amp circuit.

This is why the rated horsepower of woodworking machines generally
doesn't go above 1.5 HP for 115 volt equipment.

There are issues of starting current, line losses, temperature margin
and such which have been left out of this quick primer.

I wish the government would put an end to this nonsense of developed
horsepower in the same manner they squashed the analogous situations
which once prevailed in the worlds of audio equipment and automobile
engines.

John H.

[snip]

Basically a good explanation but a few corrections are in order. "Peak" and
"RMS" power are two different things. The advertisement of peak power was
the problem. RMS is a true measure of power. The audio industry is notorious
for padding their numbers even today. Car audio is a good example. There are
many systems sold that, if the actual output was as high as claimed, would
kill the engine when the volume was turned up.
Standard line voltage is 120 volts RMS (169.68 volts peak), not the 115
volts in the article. Small point and does not reduce the validity of the
article. Also, it is common practice, even among industrial suppliers, to
rate small motors in input horsepower as it makes it easier for the end user
to match a motor to his supply.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ups.com...
I found a "horsepower-amps-volts" clarification posted to this
newsgroup by John T. Horner. There's probably other good ones, too. I
thought it would be constructive to repeat it here, especially for
those ignorant of the horsepower-amp-volts thing, like me. John said
(with some minor edits by me)

First, Sears isn't the only company to use the misleading Developed
Power labeling .... but may be the most egregious about it.

"Developed" horsepower is much like "Peak RMS Power" was in the world
of amplifiers. In the US the advertising of "Peak Power" was outlawed
in the 1970s as misleading advertising.

"Developed" horsepower is calculated by jamming the motor in a stall
(not rotating) and turning on the power. The power drawn by the motor
under those conditions (amps x volts = watts) is measured. The
measurement is then converted to horsepower though the conversion 1
horsepower = 746 watts. A 3 "Developed Horsepower" motor is thus one
which draws 2,238 watts at a dead stall. Using standard 115 volt house
wiring we have 19.5 amps being drawn at a stall. A plain 6.12 ohm
resistor of sufficient power dissipation capacity (that is one very
physically large resistor!) thus also "Develops" 3 horsepower. Of
course this is all pure Horsepucky.

Electric motors are not 100% efficient at converting electrical power
into rotational mechanical power. Real "rated" horsepower is measured
as the mechanical power output of the motor at speed and under load.
The www.baldor.com site has good information on the specifications of
their ac motors for background reading if anyone is interested. An
excellent (big bucks!) single phase motor might have a full load
efficiency of 80%. The more common ones are in the range of 55% to
70%.

Now let us do some simple math:

A true 3 horsepower motor of 65% efficiency running at full load needs
(3HP X 746 watts/HP)/0.65 eff = 3,443 watts input power. At 115 volts
this implies 29.94 amps, obviously a serious overload for a standard 15
amp wall socket. At 230 volts the current draw drops to 14.97 amps,
within the capabilities of a 230 volt, 20 amp feed.

Doing the same calculations for a 1.5 HP motor you need about 15 amps
at 115 volts. Thus a power tool with a 1.5 HP motor running on 115
volts should be connected to a 20 amp circuit, not a 15 amp circuit.

This is why the rated horsepower of woodworking machines generally
doesn't go above 1.5 HP for 115 volt equipment.

There are issues of starting current, line losses, temperature margin
and such which have been left out of this quick primer.

I wish the government would put an end to this nonsense of developed
horsepower in the same manner they squashed the analogous situations
which once prevailed in the worlds of audio equipment and automobile
engines.

John H.

[snip]