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Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings,
drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing large areas. What size would you suggest? I'm leaning towards a No. 4. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about the price. Thanks, Dave |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
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Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
4) LN's are made in America, one of the few things that is.
Andy wrote: wrote: It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings, drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing large areas. What size would you suggest? Low angle block plane (with adjustable mouth) is perfect for small trimming tasks like that, and the low angle works well on end grain. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about the price. I don't think you could go wrong with either one. I have the LN, which performs beautifully and is arguably "prettier" with the bronze cap. However, I have the Veritas Shoulder plane and one of their replacement blades, which are also top-notch quality, and everything I've heard about the LV LABP is positive. The only real differences I've come up with from checking specs, reading here etc. are that: 1.) the LN doesn't have a lateral adjust lever (I haven't missed one; it's easy enough to just move the blade by hand), 2.) the LN doesn't have accessories like a choice of blade materials (A1 or O2) or an add-on ball tail and knob http://tinyurl.com/ydzwea and 3.) they're slightly different sizes and shapes, which I think is entirely a matter of personal preference. I'd see if you could try out each one in your hand, and see which one rubs you the right way. Good luck, and I think you'll be happy either way you decide on this, Andy |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
Never Enough Money wrote:
4) LN's are made in America, one of the few things that is. Veritas planes are made in Canada, by what I assume are fairly treated Canadians working in good conditions. Not USA made, but not a cheap-labor import, either. If money were no object, I'd buy the LN for the glitz (_real_ and perceived). However, money is always an object at some level, so most of my own hand planes are Veritas. My bottom line is that either brand makes me a happy 'dorker, as I've gotten to use many brands during various classes. If I were going for a low-angle block, I'd probably buy the Veritas. If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd consider this: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4431 This plane is slightly wider than many block planes, and the open sides allow extra duty adjusting rabbets and tenons. However, you'd give up the adjustable mouth of the LABP, which is also a valuable feature. Decisions... G |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
wrote in message oups.com... It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings, drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing large areas. What size would you suggest? I'm leaning towards a No. 4. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about the price. Sort of like asking what is better, steak or prime rib. Both are good. I've used an L-N plane and I bought a Veritas. Both are excellent so check out to see if there is some small detail that happens to suit you better, be it the feel in your hand or the color of the box it comes in. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
In article ,
B A R R Y wrote: If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd consider this: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4431 Well, yeah, but if I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful TOOL, I'd consider this: http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?...800&id=1591326 |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
Another option is to buy an antique Stanley on the internet.
Typically, you can find an awfully good user plane for modest dollars. Then when your tools are handed down to another generation it will be worth a whole lot more than you paid for it. And the bargain hunting is half of the fun ... wrote: It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings, drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing large areas. What size would you suggest? I'm leaning towards a No. 4. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about the price. Thanks, Dave |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:44:36 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
In article , B A R R Y wrote: If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd consider this: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4431 Well, yeah, but if I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful TOOL, I'd consider this: http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?...800&id=1591326 Yeah, but for that price, where's the corkscrew? +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
Roy Smith wrote:
Well, yeah, but if I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful TOOL, I'd consider this: http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?...800&id=1591326 As a cyclist, I prefer the Park BO-1: http://www.parktool.com/parktoolgear/detail.asp?cat=64&item=BO-1 |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
"B A R R Y" wrote in message . net... Never Enough Money wrote: 4) LN's are made in America, one of the few things that is. Veritas planes are made in Canada, by what I assume are fairly treated Canadians working in good conditions. Not USA made, but not a cheap-labor import, either. If money were no object, I'd buy the LN for the glitz (_real_ and perceived). However, money is always an object at some level, so most of my own hand planes are Veritas. My bottom line is that either brand makes me a happy 'dorker, as I've gotten to use many brands during various classes. If I were going for a low-angle block, I'd probably buy the Veritas. If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd consider this: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4431 This plane is slightly wider than many block planes, and the open sides allow extra duty adjusting rabbets and tenons. However, you'd give up the adjustable mouth of the LABP, which is also a valuable feature. Decisions... G It's a dandy. I use it for general block work and for rabbeting and fitting tenon cheeks. The geometry is a bit clumsy for shouldering, but with a bit of effort it's possible. Got the Veritas shoulder to do that now, and no complaint or difficulty. For me the smoother from Veritas is a real joy, because I have large hands. The frog/mouth adjustment is positive, easy, and makes a smooth translucent shaving. Amazes the kids when they see me reach for the plane rather than the sander, but then they see and feel the surface, and understand. The LN low-angle smoother http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=164 will handle the gnarliest wood without a problem, but I'd go conventional angle for general work. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
DIYGUY wrote:
Another option is to buy an antique Stanley on the internet. Typically, you can find an awfully good user plane for modest dollars. And then spend more overall than the Veritas getting it comparable, by replacing the iron, missing or broken wooden parts, and possibly the chipbreaker. Old planes are easy to find cheap. Old planes that haven't been messed up (mouths widened, parts broken, holes dripped, dropped and cracked) are NOT easy to find cheap. Old planes in excellent to mint condition usually sell for ridiculous prices, based on user utility. Then when your tools are handed down to another generation it will be worth a whole lot more than you paid for it. Who says an LN tool won't be? Some LN limited runs are already collectable. Maybe Veritas planes might also be worth something, who knows? Both are definitely suitable for handing down and capable of lasting generations. If you're going to really _use_ the Stanley to actually work wood, your fettling and replacing poor or broken parts will probably destroy any collectible value. From a user's standpoint, I think modern Lie-Neilsen and Veritas planes are BETTER than many Stanley tools _ever_ were. And the bargain hunting is half of the fun ... I'll give you that, if that's your thing. G I have many antique Stanley planes. After I've installed Hock, Veritas, or LN irons, and spent many hours tuning them, they work well, but they still aren't as good as an LN, and few are as good as a new Veritas. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
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Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
B A R R Y wrote in
. net: If money were no object, I'd buy the LN for the glitz (_real_ and perceived). However, money is always an object at some level, so most of my own hand planes are Veritas. My bottom line is that either brand makes me a happy 'dorker, as I've gotten to use many brands during various classes. If I were going for a low-angle block, I'd probably buy the Veritas. If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd consider this: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp? PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdI D=4431 This plane is slightly wider than many block planes, and the open sides allow extra duty adjusting rabbets and tenons. However, you'd give up the adjustable mouth of the LABP, which is also a valuable feature. Decisions... G I bought the LN Standard Angle Block (9 1/2), and have loved it a lot. It's the right weight, fits my hand and my work, and feels great. My dad calls it 'my high tech plane'. I bought him a LV Low Angle Block plane, which he opts to keep in my shop. (He's in his 80's now.) It gets some use, but not nearly as much. One of the LN Rabbet block planes follwed me home from a wood show last spring, but it sits still in its packaging, in the bottom of my tool shrine. I haven't had the need to open it up, and use it yet. For the OP: I don't think, from your description of what you've said you want to do, that you need consider a much larger plane than a Stanley #3. The Veritas Low Angle Smoother, a LN #3, a LN 9 1/2, a Veritas Low Angle Block. Pick two, and get some decent sharpening gear, if you haven't yet. And maybe the Veritas Apron plane, too. It's only money. ;-) Patriarch |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
B A R R Y wrote: Never Enough Money wrote: 4) LN's are made in America, one of the few things that is. Veritas planes are made in Canada, by what I assume are fairly treated Canadians working in good conditions. Good conditions? In Canada???? |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
Good conditions? In Canada????
I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working conditions... G |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
In article om, Andy
wrote: Good conditions? In Canada???? I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working conditions... G We do have a few buildings up here. Some of them even have furnaces! |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
B A R R Y wrote: [snip] Then when your tools are handed down to another generation it will be worth a whole lot more than you paid for it. Who says an LN tool won't be? Some LN limited runs are already collectable. [snip] At the rate folks are going to Canada for their planes, LN may be out of business as soon and as LN himself gets too old maybe he'll call it quits or sell it to somebody less capable or to, oh my a foreign company....Then they would most definitely be collectibles. I care less about supporting Canadian, who've trash mouthed the US a little too much for my taste, than helping a US company. There's better ways of changing American opinion than insulting us. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
Why the flame? All I suggested was another option - just to open up the
thinking a little. My points are all valid - just as yours are. So what? YMMV is all I come away with from your comments ... B A R R Y wrote: DIYGUY wrote: Another option is to buy an antique Stanley on the internet. Typically, you can find an awfully good user plane for modest dollars. And then spend more overall than the Veritas getting it comparable, by replacing the iron, missing or broken wooden parts, and possibly the chipbreaker. Old planes are easy to find cheap. Old planes that haven't been messed up (mouths widened, parts broken, holes dripped, dropped and cracked) are NOT easy to find cheap. Old planes in excellent to mint condition usually sell for ridiculous prices, based on user utility. Then when your tools are handed down to another generation it will be worth a whole lot more than you paid for it. Who says an LN tool won't be? Some LN limited runs are already collectable. Maybe Veritas planes might also be worth something, who knows? Both are definitely suitable for handing down and capable of lasting generations. If you're going to really _use_ the Stanley to actually work wood, your fettling and replacing poor or broken parts will probably destroy any collectible value. From a user's standpoint, I think modern Lie-Neilsen and Veritas planes are BETTER than many Stanley tools _ever_ were. And the bargain hunting is half of the fun ... I'll give you that, if that's your thing. G I have many antique Stanley planes. After I've installed Hock, Veritas, or LN irons, and spent many hours tuning them, they work well, but they still aren't as good as an LN, and few are as good as a new Veritas. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
On Dec 15, 5:51 pm, B A R R Y wrote: On 15 Dec 2006 14:43:56 -0800, "Never Enough Money" wrote: I care less about supporting Canadian, who've trash mouthed the US a little too much for my taste, than helping a US company. There's better ways of changing American opinion than insulting us.Many Americans trash mouth the US. G Yep, and I don't like them. However many Americans do not trash Canada. How do you know any particular American company is owned by someone who shares your political views? I was expressing patriotism, not a political view. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
Dictionary says:
Main Entry: pol·i·tics Pronunciation: 'pä-l&-"tiks Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction Etymology: Greek politika, from neuter plural of politikos political 1 a : the art or science of government b : the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy c : the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government 2 : political actions, practices, or policies 3 a : political affairs or business; especially : competition between competing interest groups or individuals for power and leadership (as in a government) b : political life especially as a principal activity or profession c : political activities characterized by artful and often dishonest practices 4 : the political opinions or sympathies of a person 5 a : the total complex of relations between people living in society b : relations or conduct in a particular area of experience especially as seen or dealt with from a political point of view office politics ethnic politics Patriotism is love of one's country. Seems like a stretch to say patriotism is political, but maybe 3a applies, maybe. On Dec 15, 6:03 pm, B A R R Y wrote: On 15 Dec 2006 15:59:11 -0800, "Never Enough Money" wrote: I was expressing patriotism, not a political view.Patriotism _is_ political. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
"Never Enough Money" writes:
On Dec 15, 5:51 pm, B A R R Y wrote: On 15 Dec 2006 14:43:56 -0800, "Never Enough Money" wrote: I care less about supporting Canadian, who've trash mouthed the US a little too much for my taste, than helping a US company. There's better ways of changing American opinion than insulting us.Many Americans trash mouth the US. G Yep, and I don't like them. However many Americans do not trash Canada. And 99% of canadians don't trash the USA. All you hear are the 1% of loudmouths. No country has the exclusive on loudmouths. scott |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
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Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
On 15/12/2006 5:08 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article om, Andy wrote: Good conditions? In Canada???? I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working conditions... G We do have a few buildings up here. Some of them even have furnaces! You've got a furnace??? I tried that, just keeps melting the roof. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
On 15/12/2006 6:59 PM, Never Enough Money wrote:
However many Americans do not trash Canada. And many do. What's your point? |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
If you read back trough the trhead of postings the meaning should be
more obvious. I know some of these postings become less meaningful as the fragment and ramble on. To summarize, I'm simply angry at the Canadian because of the wel publicised protest and virulent rhetoric against the US. It's ok to disagree and protest but it's not the best way to change American public opinion. I simply have never ever heard any American bad-mounth Canada. May be you have. I have not. This whole thing about lumber imports seems to be disingenuos since Canada retaliates by sellling prescription drugs undercutting the American drug companies -- the companies that invented the drug in the first place taking on huge risks for the potential of huge profits. Lastly, and more personal, I am being laid off because Canada subsidizes R&D so my multi-national company thinks it's cheaper to move my job to Montreal (one of my favorite cities, btw). By itself that might be ok but, I'm one of the last to be laid off. The other thousand or so laid off engineers are marveling at how the Canadian group has completely botched the projects, made them years behind and lost market share. Unfortunately our European owners haven't figure that out because they only look at hourly rate. So my point is -- buy American first, then buy from countries that actually like us. On Dec 16, 7:59 am, Doug Payne wrote: On 15/12/2006 6:59 PM, Never Enough Money wrote: However many Americans do not trash Canada.And many do. What's your point? |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
"Never Enough Money" wrote in message To summarize, I'm simply angry at the Canadian because of the wel publicised protest and virulent rhetoric against the US. This is generally the vocal minority, not the average guy ont he street. Condeming an entire country is kind of silly and shortseighted. This whole thing about lumber imports seems to be disingenuos since Canada retaliates by sellling prescription drugs undercutting the American drug companies -- the companies that invented the drug in the first place taking on huge risks for the potential of huge profits. Northing wrong with profits, but other countries, not just Canada, manage to sell the drugs at lower prices. If the US drug companies soldl them to other countries at the same price as they do to us, perhaps the balance would be different. Check out hte middlement along the way also, not just hte drug companies. Lastly, and more personal, I am being laid off because Canada subsidizes R&D so my multi-national company thinks it's cheaper to move my job to Montreal (one of my favorite cities, btw). By itself that might be ok but, I'm one of the last to be laid off. The other thousand or so laid off engineers are marveling at how the Canadian group has completely botched the projects, made them years behind and lost market share. Unfortunately our European owners haven't figure that out because they only look at hourly rate. Sorry to hear you are being laid of, but it is a European company making the decision so you blame Canada?. Go to work for an American company. They don't do things like that do they? |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
[snip] ..Northing wrong with profits, but other countries, not just Canada, manage to sell the drugs at lower prices. If the US drug companies soldl them to other countries at the same price as they do to us, perhaps the balance would be different. Check out hte middlement along the way also, not just hte drug companies. [snip] There is something wrong when other sell cheaper because of regulation (or they simply copy the invention) and force the Americans to pay for the R&D. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
"Never Enough Money" wrote in message ups.com... [snip] .Northing wrong with profits, but other countries, not just Canada, manage to sell the drugs at lower prices. If the US drug companies soldl them to other countries at the same price as they do to us, perhaps the balance would be different. Check out hte middlement along the way also, not just hte drug companies. [snip] There is something wrong when other sell cheaper because of regulation (or they simply copy the invention) and force the Americans to pay for the R&D. But neither is the case with Canada. They buy the drugs far cheaper, therefore they can sell them cheaper. American drug companies sell to Americans at a far higher price than they do elsewhere. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
I have a Stanley #4. Its old; it doesn't look antique. I use it. Its all
there, and 100% functional. Is it worth something? Have I heard out of the side of my ear that Stanley (#4) might be worth something. Why? .. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas - OT drug prices
Man that thread spun off topic quick - and far.
The price differences for the same drug and the reasons given for why they're cheaper in some places and not in others - and unfair competition etc. was interesting. Note: drug companies keep telling us that they spend millions and millions of dollars on R&D, and millions and millions more on drug trials and complying with government regulations. That's the line they give - to the consumer. On the other hand, when it comes to investors, the Annual Report goes the other way - Look At How Long We've Been Making A Lot of Money, How Much We Made Just Last Year and Here's How Much More Money We Plan To Make This Year! Look at the percent of spending vs return on investment of the major industries. Compare the rest to The Drug Industry. Notice that they consistently out perform all the other industries? Why? Well EVERYONE gets sick, gets injured and gets old. The closer you get to DEAD, the more you'll pay to not be DEAD. And there's a sweet spot in their market demographics - old enough to have the money to spend to not only not be DEAD, but the money for Viagra / Cialis etc. To add the advantage of stability and predictability to the mix - NOTHING they need to make their product comes from The Middle East! To paraphrase Evita Peron (made famous by Madona in the role of Evita in the Broadway Hit - EVITA!). "Don't cry for me - prescription drug con-soom -ers.". charlie b ps - check NAFTA. Note that the drug industry, legal and illegal, are exempted. ok - rant mode OFF |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
B A R R Y wrote: On 15 Dec 2006 12:50:53 -0800, "Andy" wrote: Good conditions? In Canada???? I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working conditions... G You're telling that to a guy who goes to Lake Placid and Fairbanks, AK for winter vacation. G This year, I'm headed to Iceland in February. Iceland in february is much warmer than either Lake Placid or Fairbanks. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
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Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
B A R R Y wrote: On 16 Dec 2006 16:22:04 -0800, wrote: Iceland in february is much warmer than either Lake Placid or Fairbanks. Hence this year's trip! I'm understanding that it'll be similar to New York City, climate-wise. A daily high of 35-40F? Well, the variations can be considerable, you can have still weather, snow cover and -10°C and you can have up to 15°C with lashing rain and high winds and both can be considered quite normal. If I really wanted COLD this year, I'd go to Greenland. G Care to share any non-touristy restaurant suggestions around Reykjavik? I do not have any suggestions at the moment but you can take a look at the Grapevine for some suggestions (www.grapevine.is) |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
On 16/12/2006 9:15 AM, Never Enough Money wrote:
To summarize, I'm simply angry at the Canadian because of the wel publicised protest and virulent rhetoric against the US. It's ok to disagree and protest but it's not the best way to change American public opinion. I simply have never ever heard any American bad-mounth Canada. 4 words. Pat Buchanan. Soviet Canuckistan. Most Canuckistanians just laugh at sh*t like that, but it was hardly intended as a compliment. You should probably lighten up and likewise laugh at the anti-Murrican stuff that comes out of Canuckistan. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
In article , Doug Payne wrote:
On 16/12/2006 9:15 AM, Never Enough Money wrote: To summarize, I'm simply angry at the Canadian because of the wel publicised protest and virulent rhetoric against the US. It's ok to disagree and protest but it's not the best way to change American public opinion. I simply have never ever heard any American bad-mounth Canada. 4 words. Pat Buchanan. Soviet Canuckistan. Most Canuckistanians just laugh at sh*t like that, but it was hardly intended as a compliment. I imagine most Canadians view Pat Buchanan as being something of a horse's behind. If it helps any... so do most Americans. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
"jtpr" wrote in message (snip) Veritas planes are made in Canada, by what I assume are fairly treated Canadians working in good conditions. Good conditions? In Canada???? When we beat the staff, we do it in a polite manner ... That's the right way, eh? ;) |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
On 18/12/2006 8:12 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
I imagine most Canadians view Pat Buchanan as being something of a horse's behind. If it helps any... so do most Americans. Sure, that's the point I was trying to make. There's horse's behinds everywhere, including 1 or 2 in Canada. We mostly ignore ours too. The vast majority of Canadians are much too polite to engage in the kind of "virulent rhetoric against the US" the OP was talking about :-) |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
In article , Doug Payne wrote:
On 18/12/2006 8:12 AM, Doug Miller wrote: I imagine most Canadians view Pat Buchanan as being something of a horse's behind. If it helps any... so do most Americans. Sure, that's the point I was trying to make. There's horse's behinds everywhere, including 1 or 2 in Canada. We mostly ignore ours too. I used to work with a Canadian fellow who referred to one of your former PMs as "Cretin". :-) The vast majority of Canadians are much too polite to engage in the kind of "virulent rhetoric against the US" the OP was talking about :-) I've noticed that. I've vacationed in Canada a number of times -- my wife and I honeymooned in Jasper Nat'l Park, for example -- and have *never* encountered rudeness there, except, I'm sorry to say, from other Americans. Just the same, I'm sure you have your share of volatile and voluble lunatics, just as we do. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
Lie-Nielsen or Veritas
"Doug Miller" wrote in message . net... I've noticed that. I've vacationed in Canada a number of times -- my wife and I honeymooned in Jasper Nat'l Park, for example -- and have *never* encountered rudeness there, except, I'm sorry to say, from other Americans. Still remember the cafe in Thunder Bay where the wife and I stopped for lunch. Everyone was speaking English when we came in, then switched to French. So, what the hell, we started conversing in Russian. They appeared somewhat annoyed, but went back to English thereafter. Wouldn't have worked in the prairie provinces.... |
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