It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings,
drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing
large areas. What size would you suggest? I'm leaning towards a No.
4. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about
the price.

Thanks,
Dave

In article .com, wrote:
It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings,
drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing
large areas. What size would you suggest? I'm leaning towards a No.
4. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about
the price.

The Veritas planes are very good -- square and flat right out of the box,
quite sharp with only light honing needed, sturdy and well balanced. Excellent
planes, and a good value.

But if you're not concerned about the price, buy the L-N.

Or buy the Veritas, and send the difference to me.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

wrote:
It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings,
drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing
large areas. What size would you suggest?

Low angle block plane (with adjustable mouth) is perfect for small
trimming tasks like that, and the low angle works well on end grain.

Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about
the price.

I don't think you could go wrong with either one. I have the LN, which
performs beautifully and is arguably "prettier" with the bronze cap.
However, I have the Veritas Shoulder plane and one of their replacement
blades, which are also top-notch quality, and everything I've heard
about the LV LABP is positive. The only real differences I've come up
with from checking specs, reading here etc. are that:
1.) the LN doesn't have a lateral adjust lever (I haven't missed one;
it's easy enough to just move the blade by hand),
2.) the LN doesn't have accessories like a choice of blade materials
(A1 or O2) or an add-on ball tail and knob http://tinyurl.com/ydzwea
and
3.) they're slightly different sizes and shapes, which I think is
entirely a matter of personal preference.
I'd see if you could try out each one in your hand, and see which one
rubs you the right way.
Good luck, and I think you'll be happy either way you decide on this,
Andy

4) LN's are made in America, one of the few things that is.

Andy wrote:
wrote:
It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings,
drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing
large areas. What size would you suggest?

Low angle block plane (with adjustable mouth) is perfect for small
trimming tasks like that, and the low angle works well on end grain.

Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about
the price.

I don't think you could go wrong with either one. I have the LN, which
performs beautifully and is arguably "prettier" with the bronze cap.
However, I have the Veritas Shoulder plane and one of their replacement
blades, which are also top-notch quality, and everything I've heard
about the LV LABP is positive. The only real differences I've come up
with from checking specs, reading here etc. are that:
1.) the LN doesn't have a lateral adjust lever (I haven't missed one;
it's easy enough to just move the blade by hand),
2.) the LN doesn't have accessories like a choice of blade materials
(A1 or O2) or an add-on ball tail and knob http://tinyurl.com/ydzwea
and
3.) they're slightly different sizes and shapes, which I think is
entirely a matter of personal preference.
I'd see if you could try out each one in your hand, and see which one
rubs you the right way.
Good luck, and I think you'll be happy either way you decide on this,
Andy

Never Enough Money wrote:
4) LN's are made in America, one of the few things that is.

Veritas planes are made in Canada, by what I assume are fairly treated
Canadians working in good conditions. Not USA made, but not a
cheap-labor import, either.

If money were no object, I'd buy the LN for the glitz (_real_ and
perceived). However, money is always an object at some level, so most
of my own hand planes are Veritas. My bottom line is that either brand
makes me a happy 'dorker, as I've gotten to use many brands during
various classes.

If I were going for a low-angle block, I'd probably buy the Veritas.

If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd
consider this:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4431

This plane is slightly wider than many block planes, and the open sides
allow extra duty adjusting rabbets and tenons. However, you'd give up
the adjustable mouth of the LABP, which is also a valuable feature.

Decisions... G

wrote in message
oups.com...
It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings,
drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing
large areas. What size would you suggest? I'm leaning towards a No.
4. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about
the price.

Sort of like asking what is better, steak or prime rib. Both are good.
I've used an L-N plane and I bought a Veritas. Both are excellent so check
out to see if there is some small detail that happens to suit you better, be
it the feel in your hand or the color of the box it comes in.

In article ,
B A R R Y wrote:

If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd
consider this:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4431

Well, yeah, but if I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful
TOOL, I'd consider this:

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?...800&id=1591326

Another option is to buy an antique Stanley on the internet.
Typically, you can find an awfully good user plane for modest dollars.
Then when your tools are handed down to another generation it will be
worth a whole lot more than you paid for it. And the bargain hunting
is half of the fun ...

wrote:
It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings,
drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing
large areas. What size would you suggest? I'm leaning towards a No.
4. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about
the price.

Thanks,
Dave

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:44:36 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
B A R R Y wrote:

If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd
consider this:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4431

Well, yeah, but if I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful
TOOL, I'd consider this:

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?...800&id=1591326


Yeah, but for that price, where's the corkscrew?




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Roy Smith wrote:

Well, yeah, but if I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful
TOOL, I'd consider this:

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?...800&id=1591326

As a cyclist, I prefer the Park BO-1:

http://www.parktool.com/parktoolgear/detail.asp?cat=64&item=BO-1

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Never Enough Money wrote:
4) LN's are made in America, one of the few things that is.

Veritas planes are made in Canada, by what I assume are fairly treated
Canadians working in good conditions. Not USA made, but not a cheap-labor
import, either.

If money were no object, I'd buy the LN for the glitz (_real_ and
perceived). However, money is always an object at some level, so most of
my own hand planes are Veritas. My bottom line is that either brand makes
me a happy 'dorker, as I've gotten to use many brands during various
classes.

If I were going for a low-angle block, I'd probably buy the Veritas.

If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd
consider this:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4431

This plane is slightly wider than many block planes, and the open sides
allow extra duty adjusting rabbets and tenons. However, you'd give up the
adjustable mouth of the LABP, which is also a valuable feature.

Decisions... G


It's a dandy. I use it for general block work and for rabbeting and fitting
tenon cheeks. The geometry is a bit clumsy for shouldering, but with a bit
of effort it's possible. Got the Veritas shoulder to do that now, and no
complaint or difficulty.

For me the smoother from Veritas is a real joy, because I have large hands.
The frog/mouth adjustment is positive, easy, and makes a smooth translucent
shaving. Amazes the kids when they see me reach for the plane rather than
the sander, but then they see and feel the surface, and understand.

The LN low-angle smoother http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=164
will handle the gnarliest wood without a problem, but I'd go conventional
angle for general work.

DIYGUY wrote:
Another option is to buy an antique Stanley on the internet.
Typically, you can find an awfully good user plane for modest dollars.

And then spend more overall than the Veritas getting it comparable, by
replacing the iron, missing or broken wooden parts, and possibly the
chipbreaker. Old planes are easy to find cheap. Old planes that
haven't been messed up (mouths widened, parts broken, holes dripped,
dropped and cracked) are NOT easy to find cheap. Old planes in
excellent to mint condition usually sell for ridiculous prices, based on
user utility.

Then when your tools are handed down to another generation it will be
worth a whole lot more than you paid for it.

Who says an LN tool won't be? Some LN limited runs are already
collectable. Maybe Veritas planes might also be worth something, who
knows? Both are definitely suitable for handing down and capable of
lasting generations. If you're going to really _use_ the Stanley to
actually work wood, your fettling and replacing poor or broken parts
will probably destroy any collectible value.

From a user's standpoint, I think modern Lie-Neilsen and Veritas planes
are BETTER than many Stanley tools _ever_ were.

And the bargain hunting
is half of the fun ...

I'll give you that, if that's your thing. G

I have many antique Stanley planes. After I've installed Hock, Veritas,
or LN irons, and spent many hours tuning them, they work well, but they
still aren't as good as an LN, and few are as good as a new Veritas.

wrote:
It's time I buy a good plane.

Make it a couple. The Veritas low angle block for starters, because
it's probably the most useful single plane-like tool you'll ever find,
especially if you're not regularly planing stuff.

For a bench plane, I'd suggest the Veritas #5. A #5 is a better
general purpose plane than a #4. Also old #4's really do grow on trees.
If you want a small plane for taking to a door rather than benchwork,
think about a #3 instead.

I prefer the Veritas design to the L-N and there's nothing between them
in build quality. L-N are prettier and more traditional, but I think
the Veritas adjuster design is just better thought out than Stanley's.

If you want a smoother later, it needs to be a separate plane just so
you can sharpen and tune it differently. A #4 1/2 would be good here,
or a Steve Knight. Also by that time you're probably due for a scrub
plane (cheap old Stanley #4, rersharpened).

B A R R Y wrote in
. net:

If money were no object, I'd buy the LN for the glitz (_real_ and
perceived). However, money is always an object at some level, so most
of my own hand planes are Veritas. My bottom line is that either brand
makes me a happy 'dorker, as I've gotten to use many brands during
various classes.

If I were going for a low-angle block, I'd probably buy the Veritas.

If I were looking for ONE, really awesome, highly useful plane, I'd
consider this:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?
PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdI
D=4431

This plane is slightly wider than many block planes, and the open
sides
allow extra duty adjusting rabbets and tenons. However, you'd give
up
the adjustable mouth of the LABP, which is also a valuable feature.

Decisions... G


I bought the LN Standard Angle Block (9 1/2), and have loved it a lot.
It's the right weight, fits my hand and my work, and feels great. My
dad calls it 'my high tech plane'. I bought him a LV Low Angle Block
plane, which he opts to keep in my shop. (He's in his 80's now.) It
gets some use, but not nearly as much.

One of the LN Rabbet block planes follwed me home from a wood show last
spring, but it sits still in its packaging, in the bottom of my tool
shrine. I haven't had the need to open it up, and use it yet.

For the OP: I don't think, from your description of what you've said
you want to do, that you need consider a much larger plane than a
Stanley #3. The Veritas Low Angle Smoother, a LN #3, a LN 9 1/2, a
Veritas Low Angle Block. Pick two, and get some decent sharpening gear,
if you haven't yet. And maybe the Veritas Apron plane, too.

It's only money. ;-)

Patriarch

B A R R Y wrote:
Never Enough Money wrote:
4) LN's are made in America, one of the few things that is.

Veritas planes are made in Canada, by what I assume are fairly treated
Canadians working in good conditions.

Good conditions? In Canada????

Good conditions? In Canada????

I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working
conditions... G

In article om, Andy
wrote:

Good conditions? In Canada????

I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working
conditions... G


We do have a few buildings up here. Some of them even have furnaces!

B A R R Y wrote:
[snip]
Then when your tools are handed down to another generation it will be
worth a whole lot more than you paid for it.

Who says an LN tool won't be? Some LN limited runs are already
collectable. [snip]

At the rate folks are going to Canada for their planes, LN may be out
of business as soon and as LN himself gets too old maybe he'll call it
quits or sell it to somebody less capable or to, oh my a foreign
company....Then they would most definitely be collectibles.

I care less about supporting Canadian, who've trash mouthed the US a
little too much for my taste, than helping a US company. There's better
ways of changing American opinion than insulting us.

Why the flame? All I suggested was another option - just to open up the
thinking a little. My points are all valid - just as yours are. So
what? YMMV is all I come away with from your comments ...

B A R R Y wrote:
DIYGUY wrote:
Another option is to buy an antique Stanley on the internet.
Typically, you can find an awfully good user plane for modest dollars.

And then spend more overall than the Veritas getting it comparable, by
replacing the iron, missing or broken wooden parts, and possibly the
chipbreaker. Old planes are easy to find cheap. Old planes that
haven't been messed up (mouths widened, parts broken, holes dripped,
dropped and cracked) are NOT easy to find cheap. Old planes in
excellent to mint condition usually sell for ridiculous prices, based
on user utility.

Then when your tools are handed down to another generation it will be
worth a whole lot more than you paid for it.

Who says an LN tool won't be? Some LN limited runs are already
collectable. Maybe Veritas planes might also be worth something, who
knows? Both are definitely suitable for handing down and capable of
lasting generations. If you're going to really _use_ the Stanley to
actually work wood, your fettling and replacing poor or broken parts
will probably destroy any collectible value.

From a user's standpoint, I think modern Lie-Neilsen and Veritas
planes are BETTER than many Stanley tools _ever_ were.

And the bargain hunting
is half of the fun ...

I'll give you that, if that's your thing. G

I have many antique Stanley planes. After I've installed Hock,
Veritas, or LN irons, and spent many hours tuning them, they work
well, but they still aren't as good as an LN, and few are as good as a
new Veritas.

On Dec 15, 5:51 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On 15 Dec 2006 14:43:56 -0800, "Never Enough Money"

wrote:

I care less about supporting Canadian, who've trash mouthed the US a
little too much for my taste, than helping a US company. There's better
ways of changing American opinion than insulting us.Many Americans trash mouth the US. G

Yep, and I don't like them. However many Americans do not trash Canada.


How do you know any particular American company is owned by someone
who shares your political views?

I was expressing patriotism, not a political view.

Dictionary says:

Main Entry: pol·i·tics
Pronunciation: 'pä-l&-"tiks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology: Greek politika, from neuter plural of politikos political
1 a : the art or science of government b : the art or science concerned
with guiding or influencing governmental policy c : the art or science
concerned with winning and holding control over a government
2 : political actions, practices, or policies
3 a : political affairs or business; especially : competition between
competing interest groups or individuals for power and leadership (as
in a government) b : political life especially as a principal activity
or profession c : political activities characterized by artful and
often dishonest practices
4 : the political opinions or sympathies of a person
5 a : the total complex of relations between people living in society b
: relations or conduct in a particular area of experience especially as
seen or dealt with from a political point of view office politics
ethnic politics

Patriotism is love of one's country. Seems like a stretch to say
patriotism is political, but maybe 3a applies, maybe.

On Dec 15, 6:03 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On 15 Dec 2006 15:59:11 -0800, "Never Enough Money"

wrote:

I was expressing patriotism, not a political view.Patriotism _is_ political.

"Never Enough Money" writes:


On Dec 15, 5:51 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On 15 Dec 2006 14:43:56 -0800, "Never Enough Money"

wrote:

I care less about supporting Canadian, who've trash mouthed the US a
little too much for my taste, than helping a US company. There's better
ways of changing American opinion than insulting us.Many Americans trash mouth the US. G

Yep, and I don't like them. However many Americans do not trash Canada.

And 99% of canadians don't trash the USA. All you hear are the 1%
of loudmouths. No country has the exclusive on loudmouths.

scott

wrote:

It's time I buy a good plane. I need it for fitting doors to openings,
drawers to openings, and the like. I don't need one for surfacing
large areas. What size would you suggest? I'm leaning towards a No.
4. Which brand do you prefer: L/N or Veritas? I'm not concerned about
the price.

Thanks,
Dave


As you will no doubt be advised

Veritas adjustable throat block plane for the needs you described
though their regular block plane would do fine as well.

The LN "block/rabbet/rebate plane doesn't need an adjustable
throat - it's tight out of the box - and sharp. Does what the
Veritas
can do PLUS, because the sides of the body are open at the iron,
and the iron sticks out a few thousandths on both sides, it's
also nice for tuning tenon faces - and shoulders (the V can't
do shoulders - but they make THREE nice shoulder planes that
give you multiple holding position AND set screws to keep the
iron where you put it, even if you take it out for sharpening -
no futzing around after sharpening. They also work very
nicely thank you very much.

But to be honest, the stanley block plane I picked up at a
flea market for around $10 will do what you want to use
it for - IF you sharpen the iron. Not as flashy - but it'll
do just fine. Then when you win the lottery . . .

charlie b

On 15/12/2006 5:08 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article om, Andy
wrote:

Good conditions? In Canada????
I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working
conditions... G


We do have a few buildings up here. Some of them even have furnaces!

You've got a furnace??? I tried that, just keeps melting the roof.

On 15/12/2006 6:59 PM, Never Enough Money wrote:

However many Americans do not trash Canada.

And many do. What's your point?

If you read back trough the trhead of postings the meaning should be
more obvious. I know some of these postings become less meaningful as
the fragment and ramble on.

To summarize, I'm simply angry at the Canadian because of the wel
publicised protest and virulent rhetoric against the US. It's ok to
disagree and protest but it's not the best way to change American
public opinion. I simply have never ever heard any American bad-mounth
Canada. May be you have. I have not.

This whole thing about lumber imports seems to be disingenuos since
Canada retaliates by sellling prescription drugs undercutting the
American drug companies -- the companies that invented the drug in the
first place taking on huge risks for the potential of huge profits.

Lastly, and more personal, I am being laid off because Canada
subsidizes R&D so my multi-national company thinks it's cheaper to move
my job to Montreal (one of my favorite cities, btw). By itself that
might be ok but, I'm one of the last to be laid off. The other thousand
or so laid off engineers are marveling at how the Canadian group has
completely botched the projects, made them years behind and lost market
share. Unfortunately our European owners haven't figure that out
because they only look at hourly rate.

So my point is -- buy American first, then buy from countries that
actually like us.

On Dec 16, 7:59 am, Doug Payne wrote:
On 15/12/2006 6:59 PM, Never Enough Money wrote:

However many Americans do not trash Canada.And many do. What's your point?

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
To summarize, I'm simply angry at the Canadian because of the wel
publicised protest and virulent rhetoric against the US.

This is generally the vocal minority, not the average guy ont he street.
Condeming an entire country is kind of silly and shortseighted.


This whole thing about lumber imports seems to be disingenuos since
Canada retaliates by sellling prescription drugs undercutting the
American drug companies -- the companies that invented the drug in the
first place taking on huge risks for the potential of huge profits.

Northing wrong with profits, but other countries, not just Canada, manage to
sell the drugs at lower prices. If the US drug companies soldl them to
other countries at the same price as they do to us, perhaps the balance
would be different. Check out hte middlement along the way also, not just
hte drug companies.


Lastly, and more personal, I am being laid off because Canada
subsidizes R&D so my multi-national company thinks it's cheaper to move
my job to Montreal (one of my favorite cities, btw). By itself that
might be ok but, I'm one of the last to be laid off. The other thousand
or so laid off engineers are marveling at how the Canadian group has
completely botched the projects, made them years behind and lost market
share. Unfortunately our European owners haven't figure that out
because they only look at hourly rate.

Sorry to hear you are being laid of, but it is a European company making the
decision so you blame Canada?. Go to work for an American company. They
don't do things like that do they?

[snip]
..Northing wrong with profits, but other countries, not just Canada,
manage to
sell the drugs at lower prices. If the US drug companies soldl them to
other countries at the same price as they do to us, perhaps the balance
would be different. Check out hte middlement along the way also, not just
hte drug companies.
[snip]
There is something wrong when other sell cheaper because of regulation
(or they simply copy the invention) and force the Americans to pay for
the R&D.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ups.com...


[snip]
.Northing wrong with profits, but other countries, not just Canada,
manage to
sell the drugs at lower prices. If the US drug companies soldl them to
other countries at the same price as they do to us, perhaps the balance
would be different. Check out hte middlement along the way also, not
just
hte drug companies.
[snip]
There is something wrong when other sell cheaper because of regulation
(or they simply copy the invention) and force the Americans to pay for
the R&D.


But neither is the case with Canada. They buy the drugs far cheaper,
therefore they can sell them cheaper. American drug companies sell to
Americans at a far higher price than they do elsewhere.

I have a Stanley #4. Its old; it doesn't look antique. I use it. Its all
there, and 100% functional. Is it worth something? Have I heard out of the
side of my ear that Stanley (#4) might be worth something. Why?
..



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Man that thread spun off topic quick - and far.

The price differences for the same drug and the
reasons given for why they're cheaper in some
places and not in others - and unfair competition
etc. was interesting.

Note: drug companies keep telling us that they
spend millions and millions of dollars on R&D,
and millions and millions more on drug trials and
complying with government regulations. That's
the line they give - to the consumer. On the
other hand, when it comes to investors, the
Annual Report goes the other way - Look At
How Long We've Been Making A Lot of Money,
How Much We Made Just Last Year and Here's
How Much More Money We Plan To Make This Year!

Look at the percent of spending vs return on
investment of the major industries. Compare
the rest to The Drug Industry. Notice that they
consistently out perform all the other industries?
Why? Well EVERYONE gets sick, gets injured and
gets old. The closer you get to DEAD, the more
you'll pay to not be DEAD. And there's a sweet
spot in their market demographics - old enough
to have the money to spend to not only not
be DEAD, but the money for Viagra / Cialis etc.
To add the advantage of stability and predictability
to the mix - NOTHING they need to make their
product comes from The Middle East!

To paraphrase Evita Peron (made famous by
Madona in the role of Evita in the Broadway
Hit - EVITA!). "Don't cry for me - prescription
drug con-soom -ers.".

charlie b

ps - check NAFTA. Note that the drug industry,
legal and illegal, are exempted.

ok - rant mode OFF

B A R R Y wrote:
On 15 Dec 2006 12:50:53 -0800, "Andy" wrote:

Good conditions? In Canada????

I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working
conditions... G


You're telling that to a guy who goes to Lake Placid and Fairbanks, AK
for winter vacation. G

This year, I'm headed to Iceland in February.

Iceland in february is much warmer than either Lake Placid or Fairbanks.

On 16 Dec 2006 16:22:04 -0800, wrote:


B A R R Y wrote:
On 15 Dec 2006 12:50:53 -0800, "Andy" wrote:

Good conditions? In Canada????

I don't think most people count cold and snow as unfair working
conditions... G


You're telling that to a guy who goes to Lake Placid and Fairbanks, AK
for winter vacation. G

This year, I'm headed to Iceland in February.

Iceland in february is much warmer than either Lake Placid or Fairbanks.

IIRC, Iceland was so named in order to discourage people from wanting to
go there, it really isn't "icy". OTOH, Greenland was so named for the
opposite reason, to make a big hunk of ice sound that much more appealing.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

B A R R Y wrote:
On 16 Dec 2006 16:22:04 -0800, wrote:


Iceland in february is much warmer than either Lake Placid or Fairbanks.

Hence this year's trip! I'm understanding that it'll be similar to
New York City, climate-wise. A daily high of 35-40F?

Well, the variations can be considerable, you can have still weather,
snow cover and -10°C and you can have up to 15°C with lashing rain
and high winds and both can be considered quite normal.

If I really wanted COLD this year, I'd go to Greenland. G

Care to share any non-touristy restaurant suggestions around
Reykjavik?

I do not have any suggestions at the moment but you can take a look at
the Grapevine for some suggestions (www.grapevine.is)

On 16/12/2006 9:15 AM, Never Enough Money wrote:

To summarize, I'm simply angry at the Canadian because of the wel
publicised protest and virulent rhetoric against the US. It's ok to
disagree and protest but it's not the best way to change American
public opinion. I simply have never ever heard any American bad-mounth
Canada.

4 words. Pat Buchanan. Soviet Canuckistan. Most Canuckistanians just
laugh at sh*t like that, but it was hardly intended as a compliment. You
should probably lighten up and likewise laugh at the anti-Murrican stuff
that comes out of Canuckistan.

In article , Doug Payne wrote:
On 16/12/2006 9:15 AM, Never Enough Money wrote:

To summarize, I'm simply angry at the Canadian because of the wel
publicised protest and virulent rhetoric against the US. It's ok to
disagree and protest but it's not the best way to change American
public opinion. I simply have never ever heard any American bad-mounth
Canada.

4 words. Pat Buchanan. Soviet Canuckistan. Most Canuckistanians just
laugh at sh*t like that, but it was hardly intended as a compliment.

I imagine most Canadians view Pat Buchanan as being something of a horse's
behind.

If it helps any... so do most Americans.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"jtpr" wrote in message

(snip)

Veritas planes are made in Canada, by what I assume are fairly treated
Canadians working in good conditions.

Good conditions? In Canada????


When we beat the staff, we do it in a polite manner ...

That's the right way, eh?

On 18/12/2006 8:12 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

I imagine most Canadians view Pat Buchanan as being something of a horse's
behind.

If it helps any... so do most Americans.

Sure, that's the point I was trying to make. There's horse's behinds
everywhere, including 1 or 2 in Canada. We mostly ignore ours too.

The vast majority of Canadians are much too polite to engage in the kind
of "virulent rhetoric against the US" the OP was talking about :-)

In article , Doug Payne wrote:
On 18/12/2006 8:12 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

I imagine most Canadians view Pat Buchanan as being something of a horse's
behind.

If it helps any... so do most Americans.

Sure, that's the point I was trying to make. There's horse's behinds
everywhere, including 1 or 2 in Canada. We mostly ignore ours too.

I used to work with a Canadian fellow who referred to one of your former PMs
as "Cretin". :-)

The vast majority of Canadians are much too polite to engage in the kind
of "virulent rhetoric against the US" the OP was talking about :-)

I've noticed that. I've vacationed in Canada a number of times -- my wife and
I honeymooned in Jasper Nat'l Park, for example -- and have *never*
encountered rudeness there, except, I'm sorry to say, from other Americans.
Just the same, I'm sure you have your share of volatile and voluble lunatics,
just as we do.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
I've noticed that. I've vacationed in Canada a number of times -- my wife
and
I honeymooned in Jasper Nat'l Park, for example -- and have *never*
encountered rudeness there, except, I'm sorry to say, from other
Americans.

Still remember the cafe in Thunder Bay where the wife and I stopped for
lunch. Everyone was speaking English when we came in, then switched to
French. So, what the hell, we started conversing in Russian. They appeared
somewhat annoyed, but went back to English thereafter.

Wouldn't have worked in the prairie provinces....