I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him with
benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however is that the
shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it for him and he
will use a space heater when he is in there. My concern is going to be the
humidity. The shop is located in the Northern Virginia area, summers of 90
degrees and 90% humidity. I have no experience working with a shop that is
not climate controlled. I do recall browsing over posts here that mention
that airflow is a big factor in keeping tools from rusting away in a humid
environment. Does that preclude the use of cabinets for storage? I for one
prefer cabinets over open shelves for storage, but will obviously recommend
what will be best for his situation. The shop has two windows in the wall
opposite the door so he will get some cross flow air movement, at least when
it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP

Highland Pairos wrote:
I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him with
benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however is that the
shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it for him and he
will use a space heater when he is in there. My concern is going to be the
humidity. The shop is located in the Northern Virginia area, summers of 90
degrees and 90% humidity. I have no experience working with a shop that is
not climate controlled. I do recall browsing over posts here that mention
that airflow is a big factor in keeping tools from rusting away in a humid
environment. Does that preclude the use of cabinets for storage? I for one
prefer cabinets over open shelves for storage, but will obviously recommend
what will be best for his situation. The shop has two windows in the wall
opposite the door so he will get some cross flow air movement, at least when
it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP

Northern Virginia surely can't have more heat and humidity than central
Mississippi. My shop is climate controled only by a heater in winter
and then only when I am out there. I've never had any significant
problems with rust, and I don't do anything special as far as
ventilation to avoid it.

DonkeyHody
"Every man is my superior in that I can learn from him." - Thomas
Carlyle

My son has one of the heat pump window units that both heats and cools.
If he can afford to have his shop set up, he can afford one of those!
I think it would be a good recommendation, since I don't think he will enjoy
the summer work much without it.
WL
"Highland Pairos" wrote in message
...
I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him with
benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however is that the
shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it for him and he
will use a space heater when he is in there. My concern is going to be the
humidity. The shop is located in the Northern Virginia area, summers of 90
degrees and 90% humidity. I have no experience working with a shop that is
not climate controlled. I do recall browsing over posts here that mention
that airflow is a big factor in keeping tools from rusting away in a humid
environment. Does that preclude the use of cabinets for storage? I for
one prefer cabinets over open shelves for storage, but will obviously
recommend what will be best for his situation. The shop has two windows in
the wall opposite the door so he will get some cross flow air movement, at
least when it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP

I second your idea to put tools in cabinets.

I keep most of mine in wood cabinets and have a lot less rust problems with
those so stored compared to those hung on the wall or the bench. Something
about the wood seems to even out the humidity changes.

I'm in Minnesota and my shop is (barely) heated in the winter and cooled by
opening the door in summer. We don't have Virginia humidity, but we do have
some.

Old Guy
Confined from the shop due to 12 degree temperatures



"Highland Pairos" wrote in message
...
I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him with
benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however is that the
shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it for him and he
will use a space heater when he is in there. My concern is going to be the
humidity. The shop is located in the Northern Virginia area, summers of 90
degrees and 90% humidity. I have no experience working with a shop that is
not climate controlled. I do recall browsing over posts here that mention
that airflow is a big factor in keeping tools from rusting away in a humid
environment. Does that preclude the use of cabinets for storage? I for
one prefer cabinets over open shelves for storage, but will obviously
recommend what will be best for his situation. The shop has two windows in
the wall opposite the door so he will get some cross flow air movement, at
least when it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP

I think it was "Old guy" who stated:

I second your idea to put tools in cabinets.

I keep most of mine in wood cabinets and have a lot less rust problems with
those so stored compared to those hung on the wall or the bench. Something
about the wood seems to even out the humidity changes.

I'm in Minnesota and my shop is (barely) heated in the winter and cooled by
opening the door in summer. We don't have Virginia humidity, but we do have
some.

Old Guy
Confined from the shop due to 12 degree temperatures

I hear ya, Old Guy. I'm in Minnesota too, and that worked pretty well
for me . . . until I got my Man Garage. It's got minimal heating,
yeah, so it stays (barely) above freezing in the winter, but I
recently put in a window air conditioner and it helps keep everything
dry all summer, so NO rusting. I don't run it very often, but I AM
very careful not to leave doors open when it's humid outside. If it
gets too humid inside, I run it until the humidity (and heat) drops
and everything is fine. I'd guess that something like that would work
in Virginia too . . . .

(What part of MN, OG? I'm near Rochester in the SE corner.)

-Don
--
"What do *you* care what other people think?" --Arline Feynman

On 2 Dec 2006 16:01:17 -0800, "DonkeyHody"
wrote:

Northern Virginia surely can't have more heat and humidity than central
Mississippi.

Or North Florida (Daytona Beach area, and I'm about three miles from
the ocean). I've had my tools out in the shop (garage) for about three
years now, with varying episodes of all-closed-up-for-weeks, to
garage-door-open-for-six-or-so-hours-per-day. I have big iron and
little toys. Some (little toys) are in roll around tool chests, some
are in plastic cases, some are just, er, around.

I have zero conditioning of any kind--heat or cool--in the shop. The
worst rust I have ever had was the odd occasions of not wearing my
sweat band and having rust spots appear from where sweat dripped off
me. I don't have any persistent overall rust issues.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 23:32:40 GMT, "Highland Pairos"
wrote:

I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him with
benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however is that the
shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it for him and he
will use a space heater when he is in there. My concern is going to be the
humidity. The shop is located in the Northern Virginia area, summers of 90
degrees and 90% humidity. I have no experience working with a shop that is
not climate controlled. I do recall browsing over posts here that mention
that airflow is a big factor in keeping tools from rusting away in a humid
environment. Does that preclude the use of cabinets for storage? I for one
prefer cabinets over open shelves for storage, but will obviously recommend
what will be best for his situation. The shop has two windows in the wall
opposite the door so he will get some cross flow air movement, at least when
it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP

I put a dehumidifier in my wife's tack room. We live east of Atlanta.
The tack would get moldy otherwise. Problem is the dehumidifier can
make the room hot so it is set at a minimum setting. The room is
small, only 12'x12' exterior dimension with 2x6 walls. R19 fiberglass
batts walls and ceiling. 1/2" foamboard on the walls. A light bulb
keeps it warm enough in the week of freezing temps to keep the water
running. If I had clear wall I would have put in a small ac unit or a
heat pump.

I think cold metal and warm moist air is a problem. A room that does
not suffer extreme temp changes is probably less prone tocondensation
and tool rusting. Just my theory though.

I have zero conditioning of any kind--heat or cool--in the shop. The
worst rust I have ever had was the odd occasions of not wearing my
sweat band and having rust spots appear from where sweat dripped off
me. I don't have any persistent overall rust issues.


I'm with you there. I just don't do any woodworking in the summer.
The grass always needs cutting, or it's just too stinkin' hot. I'm
sort of anal about rust spots on my cast iron machine tops, and those
drops of sweat will rust pretty quick. Besides, I just can't get
serious about precision when my glasses fog up and there's sweat
dripping off my nose.

I agree that rust is caused by sudden temperature changes that leave
cool steel exposed to warmer moist air. I reasonable weatherproofing
should slow down the temperature changes and prevent it.

DonkeyHody
"Even an old blind hog finds an acorn every now and then."

That's a good suggestion. I will bring that up.

SteveP.

"Wilson" wrote in message
ink.net...
My son has one of the heat pump window units that both heats and cools.
If he can afford to have his shop set up, he can afford one of those!
I think it would be a good recommendation, since I don't think he will
enjoy the summer work much without it.
WL
"Highland Pairos" wrote in message
...
I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him
with benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however is
that the shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it for
him and he will use a space heater when he is in there. My concern is
going to be the humidity. The shop is located in the Northern Virginia
area, summers of 90 degrees and 90% humidity. I have no experience
working with a shop that is not climate controlled. I do recall browsing
over posts here that mention that airflow is a big factor in keeping tools
from rusting away in a humid environment. Does that preclude the use of
cabinets for storage? I for one prefer cabinets over open shelves for
storage, but will obviously recommend what will be best for his situation.
The shop has two windows in the wall opposite the door so he will get some
cross flow air movement, at least when it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP

I do remember the temperature swing issue always being pointed out as the
major issue. I think I may mention one of the window unit A/C-heat pumps,
(I've never heard of them but I will mention it.)

Thanks for the thoughts so far from everyone.

SteveP.

"Jim Behning" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 23:32:40 GMT, "Highland Pairos"
wrote:

I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him
with
benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however is that
the
shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it for him and he
will use a space heater when he is in there. My concern is going to be
the
humidity. The shop is located in the Northern Virginia area, summers of
90
degrees and 90% humidity. I have no experience working with a shop that
is
not climate controlled. I do recall browsing over posts here that mention
that airflow is a big factor in keeping tools from rusting away in a humid
environment. Does that preclude the use of cabinets for storage? I for
one
prefer cabinets over open shelves for storage, but will obviously
recommend
what will be best for his situation. The shop has two windows in the wall
opposite the door so he will get some cross flow air movement, at least
when
it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP

I put a dehumidifier in my wife's tack room. We live east of Atlanta.
The tack would get moldy otherwise. Problem is the dehumidifier can
make the room hot so it is set at a minimum setting. The room is
small, only 12'x12' exterior dimension with 2x6 walls. R19 fiberglass
batts walls and ceiling. 1/2" foamboard on the walls. A light bulb
keeps it warm enough in the week of freezing temps to keep the water
running. If I had clear wall I would have put in a small ac unit or a
heat pump.

I think cold metal and warm moist air is a problem. A room that does
not suffer extreme temp changes is probably less prone tocondensation
and tool rusting. Just my theory though.

Hi Steve

I live in northern va for more than thirty years and had a garage shop with
no HVAC and just a propane heater in the winter.I had no problem with rust
on any of my tools.

Len

Sat, Dec 2, 2006, 11:32pm (EST+5)
(Highland*Pairos) doth sayeth:
I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him
snip

I'd tell him my concerns and let him make the final decision.
After all, it's hard to symphasize much with a woodworker who hires
someone else to set up his shop for him.



JOAT
I am, therefore I think.

I do have to laugh at that aspect of this whole job. I don't think that he
is that serious a woodworker. He has a few tools, but from what I can see
he has a job that only allows him to work, eat, sleep and make lots of
money. This is not going to be a hardcore wood shop, probably more of a
handyman kind of shop.

Steve P.

"J T" wrote in message
...
Sat, Dec 2, 2006, 11:32pm (EST+5)
(Highland Pairos) doth sayeth:
I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him
snip

I'd tell him my concerns and let him make the final decision.
After all, it's hard to symphasize much with a woodworker who hires
someone else to set up his shop for him.



JOAT
I am, therefore I think.

Thanks, that's the kind of directly relatable experience that is helpful.
One thing that I have kept in mind is that my jobsite tools stay in a job
box outside pretty much year round, and things like my chisels don't rust.
I just wanted to confirm the wisdom of recommending cabinets before I get
this guy to spend a fair amount of money.

SteveP.

"leonard" wrote in message
...

Hi Steve

I live in northern va for more than thirty years and had a garage shop
with no HVAC and just a propane heater in the winter.I had no problem with
rust on any of my tools.

Len

Sun, Dec 3, 2006, 4:30pm (EST+5)
(Highland*Pairos) doth sayeth:
I do have to laugh at that aspect of this whole job. I don't think that
he is that serious a woodworker. He has a few tools, but from what I can
see he has a job that only allows him to work, eat, sleep and make lots
of money. This is not going to be a hardcore wood shop, probably more of
a handyman kind of shop.

Ah. Sounds like one of those guys that buys a Hummer, with all the
off-road options, then drives it to work and back, and never, ever,
takes it off pavement.

I heard of a guy who had a shop loaded with about every tool made.
Drawers, with places for all the small stuff, Top quality wood in all
the cabinets, etc. He'd show every visitor his shop, and all his tools.
He was really proud of it. But his wife said the only thing he did out
there was dust and polish, he never made a thing, or even attempted to.
I can't quite grasp that concept myself, I'd want to use every damn
thing I had, at least once.
So I'd say recommend top quality stuff to him, not necessarily the
most expensive, but the stuff you'd want for yourself, if you had the
loot. Then ask for first dibs on buying, when he decides he wants the
room for something else.



JOAT
I am, therefore I think.

(J T) wrote in
:

Sun, Dec 3, 2006, 4:30pm (EST+5)
(Highland*Pairos) doth sayeth:
I do have to laugh at that aspect of this whole job. I don't think
that he is that serious a woodworker. He has a few tools, but from
what I can see he has a job that only allows him to work, eat, sleep
and make lots of money. This is not going to be a hardcore wood shop,
probably more of a handyman kind of shop.

Ah. Sounds like one of those guys that buys a Hummer, with all
the
off-road options, then drives it to work and back, and never, ever,
takes it off pavement.

I heard of a guy who had a shop loaded with about every tool
made.
Drawers, with places for all the small stuff, Top quality wood in all
the cabinets, etc. He'd show every visitor his shop, and all his
tools. He was really proud of it. But his wife said the only thing he
did out there was dust and polish, he never made a thing, or even
attempted to. I can't quite grasp that concept myself, I'd want to use
every damn thing I had, at least once.
So I'd say recommend top quality stuff to him, not necessarily
the
most expensive, but the stuff you'd want for yourself, if you had the
loot. Then ask for first dibs on buying, when he decides he wants the
room for something else.



JOAT
I am, therefore I think.



different hobbies for different folks. They're not all like you or me,
certainly.

Patriarch

Don Fearn (in ) said:

| I think it was "Old guy" who stated:
|
|| I second your idea to put tools in cabinets.
||
|| I keep most of mine in wood cabinets and have a lot less rust
|| problems with those so stored compared to those hung on the wall
|| or the bench. Something about the wood seems to even out the
|| humidity changes.
||
|| I'm in Minnesota and my shop is (barely) heated in the winter and
|| cooled by opening the door in summer. We don't have Virginia
|| humidity, but we do have some.
|
| I hear ya, Old Guy. I'm in Minnesota too, and that worked pretty
| well for me . . . until I got my Man Garage. It's got minimal
| heating, yeah, so it stays (barely) above freezing in the winter,
| but I recently put in a window air conditioner and it helps keep
| everything dry all summer, so NO rusting. I don't run it very
| often, but I AM very careful not to leave doors open when it's
| humid outside. If it gets too humid inside, I run it until the
| humidity (and heat) drops and everything is fine. I'd guess that
| something like that would work in Virginia too . . . .
|
| (What part of MN, OG? I'm near Rochester in the SE corner.)

Before moving to sunny, tropical Iowa I lived in the suburbs of the
micropolis of Cherry Grove (pop. ~45, 30+ miles south of Rochester). I
solar heated my 24' x 32' shop and found it necessary to prop the door
open to keep afternoon temperatures below 90F on sunny winter days.

Perhaps you guys should consider building some solar heating panels.
There's a link in my sig to a few drawings that might provide some
food for thought.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/SC_Types.html

"Highland Pairos" wrote in
:

I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him
with benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however
is that the shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it
for him and he will use a space heater when he is in there. My
concern is going to be the humidity. The shop is located in the
Northern Virginia area, summers of 90 degrees and 90% humidity. I
have no experience working with a shop that is not climate controlled.
I do recall browsing over posts here that mention that airflow is a
big factor in keeping tools from rusting away in a humid environment.
Does that preclude the use of cabinets for storage? I for one prefer
cabinets over open shelves for storage, but will obviously recommend
what will be best for his situation. The shop has two windows in the
wall opposite the door so he will get some cross flow air movement, at
least when it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP



Steve,
You are the professional. Your client is paying you to make decisions.
Asking this group for advice is courting disaster. This group has
professionals and amateurs. Most of the professionals are extremely
talented (Robert, Robo, Leon, swing, etc. and others) and many amateurs
are talented too (sorry talented amateurs, you are too numerous to list),
but there are a number of folks who have an idea how things should be and
give (in their mind) sage advice. Beware of these people even if they
speak the loudest. I would use a bit of common sense. Do I live in this
area? How do my tools and machinery react to this environment? A
discussion with the client as to his expectation and requirement might be
prudent. I was new to the business a long while ago and had to learn,
often the hard and expensive way; are you fairly new?
Regards,
Hank

Now would betetimeto add more windows. Maybe even a cheap r/c A/C unit high
up on the wall. I like windows high on walls as well. Better light, better
venting, more privacy. Easier to do now than later.


"Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message
. 97.142...
"Highland Pairos" wrote in
:

I have a client who wants us to finish and outfit his workshop for him
with benches, shelves, cabinets, slat wall, etc. My concern however
is that the shop will be in a space with no HVAC. We will insulate it
for him and he will use a space heater when he is in there. My
concern is going to be the humidity. The shop is located in the
Northern Virginia area, summers of 90 degrees and 90% humidity. I
have no experience working with a shop that is not climate controlled.
I do recall browsing over posts here that mention that airflow is a
big factor in keeping tools from rusting away in a humid environment.
Does that preclude the use of cabinets for storage? I for one prefer
cabinets over open shelves for storage, but will obviously recommend
what will be best for his situation. The shop has two windows in the
wall opposite the door so he will get some cross flow air movement, at
least when it is open.

Thanks,

SteveP



Steve,
You are the professional. Your client is paying you to make decisions.
Asking this group for advice is courting disaster. This group has
professionals and amateurs. Most of the professionals are extremely
talented (Robert, Robo, Leon, swing, etc. and others) and many amateurs
are talented too (sorry talented amateurs, you are too numerous to list),
but there are a number of folks who have an idea how things should be and
give (in their mind) sage advice. Beware of these people even if they
speak the loudest. I would use a bit of common sense. Do I live in this
area? How do my tools and machinery react to this environment? A
discussion with the client as to his expectation and requirement might be
prudent. I was new to the business a long while ago and had to learn,
often the hard and expensive way; are you fairly new?
Regards,
Hank

We just had an oversized garage/shop built and code is specific about
having windows positioned so firemen can access easily wearing their
safety gear. I'd positioned them not so close to the floor for
storage underneath considerations until I pondered a bit.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:25:39 GMT, "resrfglc"
wrote:

Now would betetimeto add more windows. Maybe even a cheap r/c A/C unit high
up on the wall. I like windows high on walls as well. Better light, better
venting, more privacy. Easier to do now than later.

You must have been talking to Code Enforcement folks!

Let the firemen use the Man and Garage doors and eat cake after the fire's
out!

wrote in message
...
We just had an oversized garage/shop built and code is specific about
having windows positioned so firemen can access easily wearing their
safety gear. I'd positioned them not so close to the floor for
storage underneath considerations until I pondered a bit.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:25:39 GMT, "resrfglc"
wrote:

Now would betetimeto add more windows. Maybe even a cheap r/c A/C unit
high
up on the wall. I like windows high on walls as well. Better light, better
venting, more privacy. Easier to do now than later.