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#41
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
: "todd" wrote in message . .. I just built a new garshop and need electric service out to it. The city here doesn't mind me doing the other work, but they require an actual electrician to do the electric work. I had two guys set up to come out sometime today to take a look. Of course, while I was finishing up with the first guy, the second came along. He handed me his card and I told him that I was just finishing up with another guy. He said he was real busy, mumbled something else, and then said he didn't want the job and wanted his card back. Do these guys think they're the only game in town? Don't they expect that you'll be getting a few numbers? In retrospect, I'm glad because I suspect that someone that unprofessional would not be someone I would want to work with anyway. It has nothing to do with electricians Todd, but everything to do with the individual. Yup - he's got an ego problem. And yup... you should be glad he took his card back and left. You're better off without that kind of guy. Are there two Mike Marlows ? Regards, Hank |
#42
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians
"Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message . 97.142... It has nothing to do with electricians Todd, but everything to do with the individual. Yup - he's got an ego problem. And yup... you should be glad he took his card back and left. You're better off without that kind of guy. Are there two Mike Marlows ? ???? -- -Mike- |
#43
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians
If you haven't gotten too far along, install a 2-2.5" PVC Conduit between
your house (existing Breaker Box) and up into the shop walls (or to slab so as to come up into shop wall) and frame out above for a sub-panel electrical box. Add a sixty-amp Breaker to your main panel and run three #6 and a #10 Bare Ground out there after the inspection is done. Since its a SHOP/GARAGE, you can pass without putting in Drywall or wall sheathing on interior. Then, after approval, make "modifications" and improvements that do not require permitting or inspection (e.g. adding insulation to walls, covering with plywood and drywall). But, before that, run your wiring and try to stay at 12-3 or heavier (I run #10 for all my power tool outlets) and install plenty of outlets. For lighting, I suggest installing cheap shop lights ( $9 at Home Depot/Lowes/Wal-Mart) buy installing Duplex outlets in the ceiling and splitting them so that the ones on the LEFT are switched and the others are constant. Run a three-way switch at each entrance (I have one on either side of the garage door and another at the Man Door so I can switch on all the lighting from ay entry point I choose). I also do this with the Wall mounted duplex outlets with the one on TOP switched and the bottom constantly on. This allows me to leave battery chargers and power supplies plugged in without necessarily letting them suck power 24/7. My compressor is also controlled by the three-way switches (wife hates when it "goes off" at 2AM - and I hate having to go into the shop to stop it at that hour!) X-10.com has some 20AMP and30AMP 110 and 220VAC Controllers that ca be useful (especially if integrated into the initial planning). I Double-gang my Duplex wall outlets and set a pair one every four feet about the perimeter of the shop. Also ran TV Cable and Phone outlets Wife here, must go now. "Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message . 97.142... "Mike Marlow" wrote in : "todd" wrote in message . .. I just built a new garshop and need electric service out to it. The city here doesn't mind me doing the other work, but they require an actual electrician to do the electric work. I had two guys set up to come out sometime today to take a look. Of course, while I was finishing up with the first guy, the second came along. He handed me his card and I told him that I was just finishing up with another guy. He said he was real busy, mumbled something else, and then said he didn't want the job and wanted his card back. Do these guys think they're the only game in town? Don't they expect that you'll be getting a few numbers? In retrospect, I'm glad because I suspect that someone that unprofessional would not be someone I would want to work with anyway. It has nothing to do with electricians Todd, but everything to do with the individual. Yup - he's got an ego problem. And yup... you should be glad he took his card back and left. You're better off without that kind of guy. Are there two Mike Marlows ? Regards, Hank |
#44
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians
"resrfglc" wrote in
newseYeh.1571$LL4.1514@trnddc04: *snip* For lighting, I suggest installing cheap shop lights ( $9 at Home Depot/Lowes/Wal-Mart) buy installing Duplex outlets in the ceiling and splitting them so that the ones on the LEFT are switched and the others are constant. Run a three-way switch at each entrance (I have one on either side of the garage door and another at the Man Door so I can switch on all the lighting from ay entry point I choose). *snip* An advantage to having two outlets (one for the light and one free) is that you can hang an extension cord down from the outlet and plug your tool in there. This will allow you to move all around the workspace without the cord getting in the way. Puckdropper -- Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm |
#45
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians " hang an extension cord"
Yep, tha's why only one outlet is swiched.
"Puckdropper" wrote in message reenews.net... "resrfglc" wrote in newseYeh.1571$LL4.1514@trnddc04: *snip* For lighting, I suggest installing cheap shop lights ( $9 at Home Depot/Lowes/Wal-Mart) buy installing Duplex outlets in the ceiling and splitting them so that the ones on the LEFT are switched and the others are constant. Run a three-way switch at each entrance (I have one on either side of the garage door and another at the Man Door so I can switch on all the lighting from ay entry point I choose). *snip* An advantage to having two outlets (one for the light and one free) is that you can hang an extension cord down from the outlet and plug your tool in there. This will allow you to move all around the workspace without the cord getting in the way. Puckdropper -- Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm |
#46
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians
Mostly, electricians are like restaurants. When you drive by a restaurant
with no cars in the lot, you don't want to eat there. If you find an electrician that isn't in demand , you don't want him wiring your house.... "RicodJour" wrote in message ups.com... todd wrote: I just built a new garshop and need electric service out to it. The city here doesn't mind me doing the other work, but they require an actual electrician to do the electric work. I had two guys set up to come out sometime today to take a look. Of course, while I was finishing up with the first guy, the second came along. He handed me his card and I told him that I was just finishing up with another guy. He said he was real busy, mumbled something else, and then said he didn't want the job and wanted his card back. Do these guys think they're the only game in town? Don't they expect that you'll be getting a few numbers? In retrospect, I'm glad because I suspect that someone that unprofessional would not be someone I would want to work with anyway. Open to a viewpoint from the other side of the fence? I'm not an electrician, but I can tell you what went through the electrician's mind. He's thinking that you're stacking up electical quotes in a folder - price shopping. How much price shopping is the question. When you have the electrician's coming in a revolving door (for all he knows) then it's obvious to him that you're just shopping for the lowest price and getting as many bids as you can until you're satisfied. You know, wasting his time. If a guy has a healthy business he usually doesn't want to be in a race to the bottom of the barrel. The better electricians have brisk businesses and don't see a reason to waste their time giving a bid to someone whose only concern is price. It's also uncomfortable for both electricians. Some people think that having the guys giving estimates "accidentally" run into each other on the way in/out of the house will give them both reason to sharpen their pencils and give a lower estimate. It doesn't work that way. Usually what will happen is one of the guys, if not both, won't even bother getting back to you with a price. Think of it this way - say you're dating and in a non-exclusive relationship with a couple of women. Are you going to have one drop you at the house and have the other one waiting there to pick you up - have them run into each other on purpose? No. It would make both of them uncomfortable and the only person that would end up losing would be you. It's disrespectful. I'm not saying that is actually what you did, and I don't know whether the two appointments were set up so closely or if one guy was delayed, but that is definitely what the guy is thinking. Asking for his business card back is odd. Maybe it was his last one. The normal thing to do in that situation would have been to either never get back to you (avoid confrontation), or to say he's not a good fit for your project and recommend the worst electrician in town (passive-aggressive). You should be happy that he told you up front. Other than wanting his card back, it's actually a point in his favor. R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 3437 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! |
#47
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians
Burgy wrote:
.... It's also uncomfortable for both electricians. Some people think that having the guys giving estimates "accidentally" run into each other on the way in/out of the house will give them both reason to sharpen their pencils and give a lower estimate. It doesn't work that way. Actually, it does work that way. A busy electrician doesn't indicate a good electrician. The guys with good skill sets will size up the information and just walk away after giving their reasons. They're also sometimes quite happy to hear what the other guys quoted and what for. They never speak bad of their competition, but know how to offer honest information when it's necessary as to why they're a better choice than the other guy. There's no disclosure agreement for this stuff, and it helps them out, too. An extra minute or so goes a long ways to getting the "next" call, or even a reference to a friend, associate, whoever. In other words, they're good at practicing supportive attitudes. Usually what will happen is one of the guys, if not both, won't even bother getting back to you with a price. That's good IMO because it's the type of person you do NOT want to hear from. Take it as a sign of luck. Think of it this way - say you're dating and in a non-exclusive relationship with a couple of women. Are you going to have one drop you at the house and have the other one waiting there to pick you up - have them run into each other on purpose? That's silly; if an electrician has that thin a skin, I don't want him anyway. No. It would make both of them uncomfortable and the only person that would end up losing would be you. It's disrespectful. No, it's a fact of life. I usually let it be known up front when I'm looking for estimates, and that's what I ask for; an estimate. That way they can get the hell out of my way right away; I don't need that kind of person to work for me. It should be expected that a person is going to get estimates from other sources. IF it's not expected, you've found a pretty arrogant contractor there. I'm quite grateful when a guy tells me he's not crazy about taking my job because ... and besides, he's only there because I asked for an estimate. If he can't give me that, then HE wasted HIS time! I'm also not shy about asking for references; I seldom check them, but have done so on occasion. Most will be happy to give you the names or addresses of a few places they've worked in the area; very handy for roofers, porches, siding, etc etc. I'm not saying that is actually what you did, and I don't know whether the two appointments were set up so closely or if one guy was delayed, but that is definitely what the guy is thinking. Besides, it's irrelevant IMO. Asking for his business card back is odd. Maybe it was his last one. The normal thing to do in that situation would have been to either never get back to you (avoid confrontation), or to say he's not a good fit for your project and recommend the worst electrician in town (passive-aggressive). That's cute: He's going to cut his own throat by recommending the worst guy in town? There's always a "next time" coming, so it'd be foolish to do so. And no one wants a foolish person like that workign for them; they are liars, the worst of them all. You should be happy that he told you up front. Other than wanting his card back, it's actually a point in his favor. You sound like you are or were or are close to contractor/s, or are making this all up as you go along. Your stated observations are interesting in that they point out some of my pet peeves and whether an electrician is any good or not. The subjects of your comments are more the types of people I wouldn't contract with, actually. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 3437 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! Shameless spamming via signature without a qualification isn 't appreciated either. Whatever "to date" means, that isn't many spams. Perhaps you should get a paid account and get rid of that message. Or stop using them. Regards, Pop` |
#48
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians
Pop` wrote:
Burgy wrote: Hey Pop. You excised almost everything from Burgy's post except for the very last bit at the end. Since you commented primarily on what I had written, allow me to reply. It's also uncomfortable for both electricians. Some people think that having the guys giving estimates "accidentally" run into each other on the way in/out of the house will give them both reason to sharpen their pencils and give a lower estimate. It doesn't work that way. Actually, it does work that way. A busy electrician doesn't indicate a good electrician. The guys with good skill sets will size up the information and just walk away after giving their reasons. A busy electrician is more likely to indicate a good electrician than one that's sitting around, no? I don't see how skill sets enter into the picture of whether or not the electrician appreciates the irony of running into a competitor or not. Are all highly skilled people happy-go-lucky? No. They run the usual gamut of personality types. BTW, I wasn't commenting on the work backlog. I was commenting on the electricians running into each other at the job site and whether that was intentional or not. They're also sometimes quite happy to hear what the other guys quoted and what for. They never speak bad of their competition, but know how to offer honest information when it's necessary as to why they're a better choice than the other guy. There's no disclosure agreement for this stuff, and it helps them out, too. How are they hearing what the other guy quoted? Are you telling them? Then the question becomes, is the contractor buying what you're selling? If a potential customer tells me about how someone else priced the job, it means exactly nothing to me. Why should it? I don't know if the guy bid the same thing, don't know if he made a mistake one way or the other, don't know if the owner is fudging just a wee bit to hopefully elicit a better price. More importantly, do you really think that an electrician has no clue what other electricians are charging? An extra minute or so goes a long ways to getting the "next" call, or even a reference to a friend, associate, whoever. In other words, they're good at practicing supportive attitudes. If it's a losing cause from the get go, they're never going to get a job or recommendation, it's just wasted time. I agree that if you're in a service business it pays great dividends to have a good reputation. That includes being friendly. Usually what will happen is one of the guys, if not both, won't even bother getting back to you with a price. That's good IMO because it's the type of person you do NOT want to hear from. Take it as a sign of luck. I'm from the old school. When I hire an electrician, I want someone who is good at being an electrician. I'm not looking to hire a friend so I have someone to chat with. It's business. If the guy is friendly, well, that's a bonus. Think of it this way - say you're dating and in a non-exclusive relationship with a couple of women. Are you going to have one drop you at the house and have the other one waiting there to pick you up - have them run into each other on purpose? That's silly; if an electrician has that thin a skin, I don't want him anyway. See above. No. It would make both of them uncomfortable and the only person that would end up losing would be you. It's disrespectful. No, it's a fact of life. I usually let it be known up front when I'm looking for estimates, and that's what I ask for; an estimate. That way they can get the hell out of my way right away; I don't need that kind of person to work for me. It's good to be up front about it. It should be expected that a person is going to get estimates from other sources. IF it's not expected, you've found a pretty arrogant contractor there. I'm quite grateful when a guy tells me he's not crazy about taking my job because ... and besides, he's only there because I asked for an estimate. If he can't give me that, then HE wasted HIS time! Again, what does arrogance have to do with it? If the guy thinks he's god, and does the work like he is, I don't care about the attitude. If the guy is a boob, and can't back up the words/attitude, well, that's another story. I'm also not shy about asking for references; I seldom check them, but have done so on occasion. Most will be happy to give you the names or addresses of a few places they've worked in the area; very handy for roofers, porches, siding, etc etc. I'm not saying that is actually what you did, and I don't know whether the two appointments were set up so closely or if one guy was delayed, but that is definitely what the guy is thinking. Besides, it's irrelevant IMO. Yes - in your opinion. Does it color your opinion if the contractor doesn't necessarily agree with your opinion of what _his_ feelings should be? It seems to me that there's a certain attitude and arrogance on your part as well. Asking for his business card back is odd. Maybe it was his last one. The normal thing to do in that situation would have been to either never get back to you (avoid confrontation), or to say he's not a good fit for your project and recommend the worst electrician in town (passive-aggressive). That's cute: He's going to cut his own throat by recommending the worst guy in town? There's always a "next time" coming, so it'd be foolish to do so. And no one wants a foolish person like that workign for them; they are liars, the worst of them all. Unless someone knows that the guy he's "recommending" is a hack, how could they know? Is it a dirty trick? Yep. He's foisting off one pain in the ass to another pain in the ass. I knew a flooring contractor who would give a written estimate to the owner. He had gotten sick of people "stealing" jobs from him. Owners shopping to save $50 and giving the lowball contractor the benefit of his work. So he came up with a way to deal with it. He'd write up his estimates with all of the dimensions 2' short. He knew it, was ready and willing to do the job at the price he quoted. He'd gotten angry calls from owners who were majorly ****ed that the other contractor's carpet arrived for installation and it was all 2' short! It may have not been funny to the owner or the lowball contractor, but that's what you get when you steal someone's work and don't even bother to take the time to double check the dimensions. You should be happy that he told you up front. Other than wanting his card back, it's actually a point in his favor. You sound like you are or were or are close to contractor/s, or are making this all up as you go along. Your stated observations are interesting in that they point out some of my pet peeves and whether an electrician is any good or not. The subjects of your comments are more the types of people I wouldn't contract with, actually. I'm not sure I follow you. I have an opinion different than yours so I must be making stuff up? That makes no sense. It's really very simple. It's a two way street. You play nice with me, be upfront and allow me to be me instead of some theoretical ideal contractor, and I'll be upfront, play nice and let you be you. If my numbers work with your budget, and my schedule works with yours, then we'd have a deal. If not, well at least we were honest and accommodating. What more is there to life? I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 3437 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! Shameless spamming via signature without a qualification isn 't appreciated either. Whatever "to date" means, that isn't many spams. Perhaps you should get a paid account and get rid of that message. Or stop using them. You'd have to take that up with the poster who's responsible for it. His name can be located at the top of this post. R |
#49
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Grrrr...electricians
"Pop`" wrote in
news:y3_fh.3869$LL4.108@trnddc04: That's silly; if an electrician has that thin a skin, I don't want him anyway. Looks like too little insulation is bad for both electricity and electricians! Puckdropper -- Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm |
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