On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 12:43:14 +0000, Bruce Barnett wrote:

"John Grossbohlin" writes:

For me personally, their product mix didn't offer much of interest for a
walk in store--Woodworkers Warehouse was far more interesting. ;~)


Well, I was at both stores, and the Woodcraft store was 100 times
better than WoodWorker's Warehouse. I spend a lot of time and money at
Woodcraft, and every time I pass the empty store I get an empty
feeling in my gut.

Although - I was getting annoyed at some of Woodcraft's practices:

They would give you a 10% off coupon (on your birthday) but
you couldn't combine that with any other sale they offered. I
tried to mazimize my purchase value, but the best I could do
was get 10%.

They would have a sale each month, but often the retail price
of the sale item was raised right before the sale, so the
savings was imaginary. I shopped around a lot, and often the
Woodcraft sale price was higher than the normal price at
another store.

Some of the sale items were great, but they started importing
new items for the sole purpose of offering an item at a low
cost. Some of those items were equal to (or lower than) the
quality that Harbor Freight.


The owner's cited being required to stock large quantities of slow moving
merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and that tied up
their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile location was
expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any more...

In this Albany/Schenectady/Troy area there are a lot of places when
the rental property owners think they have a goldmine. I've seen
entire strip malls remain empty for years because they insist on high
rental prices, and small stores that try to survive keep failing.

I didn't know about those requirements for keeping carving chisels
etc. displayed. But that helps explain the problem. I always wondered
about the huge displays, and all that wasted space.

It's a shame that Woodcraft was so restrictive in their policies.

The bothersome thing in those big displays is that there's usually a gap
or two where something was sold and not replaced. And that gap is
usually where whatever I need today would lie. On the other hand they
have a pallet full of their $20 clamp sets. But not a $69.99 Nova
Precision Midi in sight.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Phisherman wrote:
On 1 Dec 2006 09:54:42 -0800, "Never Enough Money"
wrote:

I'm in my early 50's and have been a programmer, designer, and manger
of same for almost 30 years. I feel it's time for a change but still
have to pay a mortgage and 3 kids in college.

I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?


I spent over 20 years in retail, owning a bicycle store. AFter my
experience, I want to comment on two different points of view.

First, many people have pointed out the pitfalls of owning your own
store. Those pitfalls are real, not imagined. There are long hours, no
job security. The income stream is questionable and unknowable in
advance. Getting good employees is difficult (I had 11). Dealing with
bookkeeping issues,regulations, marketing decisions, banking options are
all difficult and each contains its own learning curve, As the owner of
a small business, it strongly behooves you to, if not master, then at
least have decent skills in all of those areas. It's the ultimate
"jack-of-all-trades" job -- owning a small business.

You need your eyes wide open regarding the downside of business
ownership. The downside buries more business entrepreneurs than enables
them.

On the upside however, business ownership is a complete rush. You are
master of your small universe. If you prove to have the entrepreneurial
skillsets necessary to succeed, then ownership is wonderful. If your
product is right, your location is right, you know and understand your
product, demonstrate good interpersonal customer skills, you can do very
well. Most don't. Some do. It's not easy, but you only live once and I
think people should follow their dreams if the opportunity presents
itself. This could be yours.

I sold my store when I was 44 years old and am glad I did. I was tired
of retail, and frankly wanted to spend all of my time with my son (then
7 yrs old) and in the shop making furniture.

Good luck with your decision.

Rick
http://www.thunderworksinc.com

On Dec 1, 7:28 pm, B A R R Y wrote:


I know someone else, [snip] We
always kid him that the existence of the shop is simply to stop his
well-employed wife from making him actually work!

My goodness, Barry.. that hit a little too close to home here..G.. at
least I that started out that way back in Sept 2003. But business has
not let up...and I am at a cross-roads whether to grow again or not...

(Of course it helps to have a mafia-like mentality with the market
sewn-up with the suppliers and rigid enforcers milking all the poor old
ladies in the area.
Bwhahahahahaha)

r

On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 12:43:14 +0000 (UTC), Bruce Barnett
wrote:

"John Grossbohlin" writes:


The owner's cited being required to stock large quantities of slow moving
merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and that tied up
their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile location was
expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any more...

In this Albany/Schenectady/Troy area there are a lot of places when
the rental property owners think they have a goldmine. I've seen
entire strip malls remain empty for years because they insist on high
rental prices, and small stores that try to survive keep failing.

I didn't know about those requirements for keeping carving chisels
etc. displayed. But that helps explain the problem. I always wondered
about the huge displays, and all that wasted space.


Kind of interesting. It looks like (based on this and the comments
regarding having 3 years worth of living expenses and then plan on a
"nominal salary") someone has figured out how to have employees that
furnish their own money for company expenses. Not a bad deal (for the
franchising party, not the franchisee). Unless something has been omitted
in all of the information, this sounds like a very one-sided deal with lots
of downside risk and very little, if any, upside advantages.

The OP may be better off putting together his own "mom & pop" style
woodworking shop. If he picks the right location and product mix, he has a
good chance of doing well.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:32:48 -0600, Rick
wrote:

I sold my store when I was 44 years old and am glad I did. I was tired
of retail, and frankly wanted to spend all of my time with my son (then
7 yrs old) and in the shop making furniture.

Good luck with your decision.

Rick
http://www.thunderworksinc.com


Has you shop been in "Woodshop News?"

Your story sounds strangely familiar.

No, I don't think so, but there was an article about me in CWB.

Rick

"Bruce Barnett" wrote in message
...
"John Grossbohlin" writes:

For me personally, their product mix didn't offer much of interest for a
walk in store--Woodworkers Warehouse was far more interesting. ;~)


Well, I was at both stores, and the Woodcraft store was 100 times
better than WoodWorker's Warehouse. I spend a lot of time and money at
Woodcraft, and every time I pass the empty store I get an empty
feeling in my gut.

I'm down in Ulster county (work in Schenectady) and the Kingston
Woodworker's Warehouse was one of the best stores in the whole chain... they
actually made money in that store and the manager, Phil, was good about
getting things for me and making sure I got the best deal on things. I
regularly ran into the owners of local cabinet shops and contracting outfits
in the store because the store had the tools and supplies to keep those
businesses moving. The hobbyists benefited from the commercial business as
the store was well stocked with items that sold...

The Albany Woodcraft's business, on the other hand, struck me as doing
almost pure hobbyist business. While there is nothing wrong with hobbyists
how many sanders are they going to wear out in a lifetime? One small
commercial shop I know well of goes through a couple sanders per year,
looses and replaces dozens of screw drivers per year on job sites, and the
list of constant purchase items goes on...

Also, from what I'd heard the Albany WW was not of the same caliber as the
Kingston store which could explain our varying experiences with them. I
think that was due to the options available to contractors and cabinet shops
as well as management differences.

The owner's cited being required to stock large quantities of slow moving
merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and that tied up
their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile location was
expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any more...

In this Albany/Schenectady/Troy area there are a lot of places when
the rental property owners think they have a goldmine. I've seen
entire strip malls remain empty for years because they insist on high
rental prices, and small stores that try to survive keep failing.

I'm familiar with that mind-set... don't understand it but I suppose
corporate owners might have a portfolio of properties and not really know
what a particular location is realistically capable of generating. I recall
looking at an appraisal of a water driven grist mill property that was on
the market for $1 million. I thought they were nuts as this place was on a
dead end road in rural upstate NY and they were using the properties in
Merchant's Square in Colonial Williamsburg, VA as comps! CW was doing about
a million visitors per year, plus the College of William & Mary being across
the street, and other historic sites in the area to draw people to the
stores... If the Grist Mill was capable of pulling in 5,000 people per year
I'd be shocked. BTW, that property didn't sell for the million. The son took
it over and sold it some years later for, as I recall, $350,000. ;~)


I didn't know about those requirements for keeping carving chisels
etc. displayed. But that helps explain the problem. I always wondered
about the huge displays, and all that wasted space.

It's a shame that Woodcraft was so restrictive in their policies.

Woodcraft is kind of like Subway sandwich shops... the company makes money
on everything but the owners of the franchises are often making trivial
wages for themselves. Some year ago there was a Wall St Journal article on
Subway that laid out how most of the franchises did poorly for the owners
but if they owned a bunch of them it was possible to make decent money.
About the same time the local paper interviewed the owner of the local
Subway and he figured he was making about minimum wage after all was said
and done.

John

John Grossbohlin wrote:

I'm down in Ulster county (work in Schenectady) and the Kingston
Woodworker's Warehouse was one of the best stores in the whole chain...

Since you work in Schenectady, does that mean you also have the monogram
tattooed on each cheek?

Lew

B A R R Y wrote in
:


His business is retail hobby store that is open from 1p-4p and 6p-8p
weekdays, and is closed Saturday mornings and Sunday.

Note that the shop is closed during lunch, PM drive time, and weekend
times, where a hobbyist might actually drop by to buy something.
G------


If the store wasn't open in the evening, I'd think it was located in Fort
Wayne, IN. Most of the places I want to go aren't open during the time
of day when I'm able to go anywhere, that is the evening.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
John Grossbohlin wrote:

I'm down in Ulster county (work in Schenectady) and the Kingston
Woodworker's Warehouse was one of the best stores in the whole chain...

Since you work in Schenectady, does that mean you also have the monogram
tattooed on each cheek?

Lew

Nope... work in the big new (2-3 years old) building across the street from
the county building...

John

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Mark Jerde wrote:

Interesting. My wife thinks I should do the same. But I keep hoping
to write the next PKZIP instead. ;-) Then I could buy a store & not
have to share it with anyone...

Mark ... move Quicken to Linux. I'll buy the first copy.

Bill

Very interesting! I've been making notes about desireable features of a
"Financial Package" for 15 years or so. My wife and I have different ways
of looking at finances and a program that satisfied us both would be useable
by practically anyone. ;-) Maybe I should actually write some code...

-- Mark

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:24:43 GMT, Mark Jerde wrote:

Mark ... move Quicken to Linux. I'll buy the first copy.

Bill

Very interesting! I've been making notes about desireable features of a
"Financial Package" for 15 years or so. My wife and I have different ways
of looking at finances and a program that satisfied us both would be
useable by practically anyone. ;-) Maybe I should actually write some
code...

http://www.gnuash.org

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

"Mark Jerde" writes:

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Mark Jerde wrote:

Interesting. My wife thinks I should do the same. But I keep hoping
to write the next PKZIP instead. ;-) Then I could buy a store & not
have to share it with anyone...

Mark ... move Quicken to Linux. I'll buy the first copy.

Bill

Very interesting! I've been making notes about desireable features of a
"Financial Package" for 15 years or so. My wife and I have different ways
of looking at finances and a program that satisfied us both would be useable
by practically anyone. ;-) Maybe I should actually write some code...

-- Mark


I've found gnucash to be a useful (albeit less friendly) alternative to
Quicken. It is double-entry tho, which may seem odd to Joe Random Quicken user.

Quicken may also work under Crossover and/or wine.

scott

Art Greenberg writes:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:24:43 GMT, Mark Jerde wrote:

Mark ... move Quicken to Linux. I'll buy the first copy.

Bill

Very interesting! I've been making notes about desireable features of a
"Financial Package" for 15 years or so. My wife and I have different ways
of looking at finances and a program that satisfied us both would be
useable by practically anyone. ;-) Maybe I should actually write some
code...

http://www.gnuash.org

http://www.gnucash.org/

Art Greenberg wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:24:43 GMT, Mark Jerde wrote:

Mark ... move Quicken to Linux. I'll buy the first copy.

Bill
Very interesting! I've been making notes about desireable features of a
"Financial Package" for 15 years or so. My wife and I have different ways
of looking at finances and a program that satisfied us both would be
useable by practically anyone. ;-) Maybe I should actually write some
code...

http://www.gnuash.org


Art, thanks for the heads up. I had previously used an older version but
not been impressed ... it wasn't a drop-in and it didn't import very
well. I'll give this a try.

There's a new laptop in my not-too-distant future. Might as well get one
that's Penguin-friendly.

BTW ... bad link ... try this:
http://www.gnucash.org

Bill



--
Never again clutter your days or nights with so many menial and
unimportant things that you have no time to accept a real challenge when
it comes along. This applies to play as well as work. A day merely
survived is no cause for celebration. You are not here to fritter away
your precious hours when you have the ability to accomplish so much by
making a slight change in your routine. No more busy work. No more
hiding from success. Leave time, leave space, to grow. Now. Now! Not
tomorrow!

Og Mandino