I've been specifically looking for a Mold making machine but figured that
since I also need the planner I might as well jump off the cliff and get a
molder / sander / planner combo. What brands do people have experience with?
Thoughts on the Grizzly and WoodMasterTools units? I can't see either of
them locally so it's buying blind.

HotRod wrote:
I've been specifically looking for a Mold making machine but figured that
since I also need the planner I might as well jump off the cliff and get a
molder / sander / planner combo. What brands do people have experience with?
Thoughts on the Grizzly and WoodMasterTools units? I can't see either of
them locally so it's buying blind.

Would help to know what you intend/need to do with the unit--stuff like
size/type of mouldings, wood species used, typical size/frequency of
production runs, etc., etc., etc., ...

In general, though, for a combo-moulder/planer, I'd consider it
probably only if do relatively infrequent but moderate-sized runs owing
to the changeover. If, otoh, it's hobbyist, only, then the
time/convenience factor is probably reduced significantly compared to
initial cost.

Now for the specific question--I don't have either of the two, but from
what I know in general of the equipment--afaict, the Grizzly units
don't have optional sanding heads (but I could possibly be wrong, but
don't see any reference to them in the catalog) while the Woodmaster
does (for at least some of the models) so if that's a mandatory, it's
worth checking w/ Grizzly on. Same thing about convenience applies
except now in triplicate except duplicate. The Woodmasters as a plus
are variable-speed, Grizzly are single or dual. As a negative,
standard they use single-knife cutterhead whereas Grizzly is dual.
They do have optional dual-knive heads and the indexable replaceable
"spiral" planer heads as options, as well. Not sure Grizzly does on
these combo machines (although do on some dedicated planers, of
course).

Based on what I know, for an envisioned usage similar to what I could
foresee, I'd probably look at the Woodmaster more than the Grizzly w/
the options. (Of course, I already have industrial planer so I'd be
looking at it more as a dedicated moulder rather than combo unit and
when I think of mouldings in general if I'm going to run something that
would use a moulder for as opposed to hand shaping or the shaper for,
it would be architectural and typically pretty sizable amounts.
Certainly not a direct answer, but some thoughts that hopefully provide
some thinking fodder...

I have an 18" Woodmaster planer\sander\molder\gang ripper. I opted to
upgrade the motor to a 7 1/2 horse power. I can plane an 1/8" off a 12"
wide whiteoak board without even hearing the motor change sound. I cut
4" wide crown molding from red oak and it is so quite you just hear a
little buzz. I also bought the optional outfeed flap sander. The
moldings came out so clean with a fresh knife that I never even set up
the outfeed sander. I also bought 6 saw blades. I once feed 500bf of
1x12 pine, sliced into 2" wide planks and the thing was like a fricking
pasta cutter. I've never used the sanding drum (I have access to a 24"
wide belt) but assume it works as nicely as the rest of the operations.

Considerations:
1. It does take some time to do a switch over, although is pretty easy.
To go from molding to planning probably take 15 minutes. To go the from
planning to sawing or molding takes longer because of the setup for the
knives, blades and bed.

2. I bought the slick bed and it's well worth it. You need to do some
custom work to really make it work well. If you want to run moldings
with both front and back blades side by side or multiple knoves of the
same (or different) profiles at the same time, you need to build some
simple but custom fences to hold the part sin place. I have a plan for
a spring loaded fence if I start doing lots of gang ripping so it's
easy to deal with variable width stock.

4. laner works great, zero feed problems and nice clean cut. The only
problem is severe snipe. I can't stop it no matter what. So you'll
sacrifice 3-4 inches or have to hand fix it. For me it's not a problem.
I take rough stock through this thing like butter and if I am worried
about material I can clean up an end piece once I cross cut it.

3. Finally, the folks at Woodmaster are great. They barely hassle me
for my continually late payments. They are alwasy running some deal. I
got mine with free shipping, just had to pick it up at a central truck
terminal and also free accessories.

BW

HotRod wrote:
I've been specifically looking for a Mold making machine but figured that
since I also need the planner I might as well jump off the cliff and get a
molder / sander / planner combo. What brands do people have experience with?
Thoughts on the Grizzly and WoodMasterTools units? I can't see either of
them locally so it's buying blind.

I have an 18" Woodmaster planer\sander\molder\gang ripper. I opted to
upgrade the motor to a 7 1/2 horse power. I can plane an 1/8" off a 12"
wide whiteoak board without even hearing the motor change sound. I cut
4" wide crown molding from red oak and it is so quite you just hear a
little buzz. I also bought the optional outfeed flap sander. The
moldings came out so clean with a fresh knife that I never even set up
the outfeed sander. I also bought 6 saw blades. I once feed 500bf of
1x12 pine, sliced into 2" wide planks and the thing was like a fricking
pasta cutter. I've never used the sanding drum (I have access to a 24"
wide belt) but assume it works as nicely as the rest of the operations.

Considerations:
1. It does take some time to do a switch over, although is pretty easy.
To go from molding to planning probably take 15 minutes. To go the from
planning to sawing or molding takes longer because of the setup for the
knives, blades and bed.

2. I bought the slick bed and it's well worth it. You need to do some
custom work to really make it work well. If you want to run moldings
with both front and back blades side by side or multiple knoves of the
same (or different) profiles at the same time, you need to build some
simple but custom fences to hold the part sin place. I have a plan for
a spring loaded fence if I start doing lots of gang ripping so it's
easy to deal with variable width stock.

3. Planer works great, zero feed problems and nice clean cut. The only
problem is severe snipe. I can't stop it no matter what. So you'll
sacrifice 3-4 inches or have to hand fix it. For me it's not a problem.
I take rough stock through this thing like butter and if I am worried
about material I can clean up an end piece once I cross cut it.

4. Finally, the folks at Woodmaster are great. They barely hassle me
for my continually late payments. They are alwasy running some deal. I
got mine with free shipping, just had to pick it up at a central truck
terminal and also free accessories.

BW

HotRod wrote:
I've been specifically looking for a Mold making machine but figured that
since I also need the planner I might as well jump off the cliff and get a
molder / sander / planner combo. What brands do people have experience with?
Thoughts on the Grizzly and WoodMasterTools units? I can't see either of
them locally so it's buying blind.

In this case you got the use right or "hit the nail on the head", the
initial purchase is to re-mold an entire victorian house. This includes
door, window and base board trim. For this specific project I'll be using
rough cut 1x12" pine so I need to first plane it down, then run it through
the molder to make the trim pieces I need. Some of them will get a quick
sand at some point depending on the mold profile.

I currently have an indistrial 16" planner but was thinking about selling it
and looking at a combo unit. Less space to take up in the shop and it will
honestly not get that much use outside of my weekend projects. This is for
personal use not really business persay.

HotRod wrote:
In this case you got the use right or "hit the nail on the head", the
initial purchase is to re-mold an entire victorian house. This includes
door, window and base board trim. For this specific project I'll be using
rough cut 1x12" pine so I need to first plane it down, then run it through
the molder to make the trim pieces I need. Some of them will get a quick
sand at some point depending on the mold profile.

I currently have an indistrial 16" planner but was thinking about selling it
and looking at a combo unit. Less space to take up in the shop and it will
honestly not get that much use outside of my weekend projects. This is for
personal use not really business persay.

SonomaWP pretty much reinforced my thinking from what I know and have
been told Woodmaster. I think if I were in your position I'd try
to hang onto the planer through at least the bulk of the housing
moulding project was complete, then reevaluate. But, I think I'd go as
large a Woodmaster as the budget could stretch to cover.

Sounds like SWP is using the 1-knife head and pleased--wonder what
feedrate he's using for the red oak?

My current 16" planner is industrial and has two nice blades on it but it
won't accomidate molder knives, the only reason to get rid of it was to get
some space back, I have way to many tools. Doubles and Triples of some.

BW
I was looking at the 18" or 25" though I'm not sure if I'd use more than
the 18". Would it be possible for you to just make a list of the upgrades on
your 18" model and which ones were worth it? Also how did you find out about
the "deals"?

HotRod wrote:
My current 16" planner is industrial and has two nice blades on it but it
won't accomidate molder knives, the only reason to get rid of it was to get
some space back, I have way to many tools. Doubles and Triples of some.

I understand, was just thinking of the logistics of running a lot of
moulding could be enhanced significantly w/o the need to switch. Plus,
if for any reason weren't really satisfied w/ the dual-function, could
make the decision on which to keep based on hands-on.

Not knowing what else are duplicates/triplicates, of course, nor other
work habits or planned/scheduled work/projects, just my thoughts (for
what they're worth, which is, of course, _every_ bit of what they cost!
).

And, of course, imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., etc., ...

I got the bigger motor. In my case I got it because I "may" use the
unit for gang ripping oak, etc. I have products that use 3/4" square
pickets and some others that use 3/8" wide ripped pieces from 3/4"
stock and I will create some custom spacers and run 6 or 8 blades at a
time. They told me with the 7 1/2 HP motor I could run 10 blades and I
believe it. Probaby overkill for most situations.

I got multiple knife holders. The typical setup comes with one knife
holder so you have this 18" wide machine running a 3' wide molding and
you can't even run the back side at the same time. So two or more knife
holders are worth it.

I got a selection of about 10 knives (molding shapes). Pretty nice but
typically I keep buying more because I couldn't guess exactly what I
would need.

I got the out-feed mount that holds either a router or a flap sander
motor. I also bought the sander motor. If I was running lots of molding
the sander would be a nice addition plus having the router mount lets
me run a shape on the top of the board and maybe a tounge or groove on
the edge. Nice addition if you can use it.

I got several ripping blades. Again, nice if you can use it. The setup
is a little tedious so using it for standard ripping is sort of out of
the question but if you need to do some gang ripping it is about $15k
cheaper than any other solution. I plan on building a set of custom
spacers. The mounts that come with the blades have a coller that is
about 5/8" on each side (if I recall correctly) so I can't rip my 3/4"
or 3/8" pieces. I talked with their engineering dept and they said they
have seen it done with custom spacers so I am thinking of getting a
setup with some thrust washers or custom machined spacers to allow for
absolute positioning and fast setup.

They send me promotions all the time. They were real good about helping
me take advantage of special pricing. The free shipping was something I
think they do once a year to several locations around the country. I
think a call to them and asking about upcoming specials or just asking
for a price break will be a positive experience. Nice folks.

BW
HotRod wrote:
BW
I was looking at the 18" or 25" though I'm not sure if I'd use more than
the 18". Would it be possible for you to just make a list of the upgrades on
your 18" model and which ones were worth it? Also how did you find out about
the "deals"?

HotRod wrote:
I currently have an indistrial 16" planner but was thinking about selling it
and looking at a combo unit. Less space to take up in the shop and it will
honestly not get that much use outside of my weekend projects. This is for
personal use not really business persay.

If you have the cash, I'd keep the big planer and use the combo machine
as a dedicated molder until you finish all the molding. Then, when you
are finished, sell one of the machines.

Just to tell you what I did.. I bought the 13" Jet Molder/Planer. I
plan to buy molding blades for it, but I haven't yet. I was previously
using a portable planer, and I am kicking myself in the ass for not
upgrading the planer a long time ago. My rationalization is that the
place I buy crown from is very expensive, and the molding cutters would
pay for themselves quite quickly. So the purchase was worth it to me to
speed up the planing process.

I have a seperate drum sander. You might want to consider that route. I
have the delta 18/36 model. I have used the performax models as well.
The nice thing about the delta is that you can buy an pnuematic drum
accessory. That's a really nice feature to have available. Again, I
wish I had bought that accessory years ago.

I know you mentioned you are pressed for space. I don't know how much a
combo unit costs vs a seperate sander and planer/molder. It is nice to
have the drum sander all loaded and ready to go, because all my solid
wood goes through that. It might be a PITA to have to change from
planer head to sander head every time wood was prepped (although maybe
that changeover time is minimal).

So now that I've had some more time to think about it I'm trying to figure
out what is going to be better.Can anyone help answer these questions. I'm
looking at the woodmaster 18" unit.

1) The current planner I have is a single motor unit, the molder/planner I
was looking at was also a single motor unit. Does the variable speed belt on
the bottom that pulls the wood in actually make the cuts that much better?
Or will both planners do the same job? Is more cuts per inch that much
better?

2) The other option is to go with my Craftsman Molder/Planner and a seperate
drum sander. The big difference between the woodmaster and the rest is that
the woodmaster only has a single drum. Are there advantages and disadvatages
to this? Or can I get the single drum to do the same job?

I just ran my Woodmaster 18 over the weekend and was thinking about
your earlier questions.

Regarding these new questions:
1. Yes speed does make a difference and slower is usually much cleaner.
The planer is taking lots of little arced cuts. the more overlap the
cleaner it will be. On big planers you can really see the difference.
The Woodmaster feed speeds are pretty slow over all and even the
fastest is still plenty clean.

2. In my experience the two drum sanders are not a big advantage over
multi. Fo my usage I am using the wide sander to flatten panels and get
a good even sanded start on all my stock for furniture. I don't look to
the wide sander for fine sanding. I find a grit, 100, 120, 150 that
cuts well and not too rough (wide belts\drums can get pretty smooth
even with 100) and I hand sand out everything with a palm sander a few
grits finer after that. So for me personnaly the concept of 100 on the
front drum and 150 or 180 on the next is just a waste. Although having
the secnd pass of the same paper is an advantage in speed.

The poiint that came to mind about my Woodmaster as a planer this
weekend was that it's a real workhorse but not necessarily a fine
finishing tool. The surface is plenty flat and nicely cut but for
instance, I Ihaven't even tried to calibrate the thickness gauge. I
just use this to get to a rough flat size. Unlike some expensive big
units, like a commercial Invicta where you have a digital read out and
you can get a glass looking cut to some precise measurement, the
Woodmaster is just a workhorse. For molding it is top notch. If I had a
good running desktop planer and I didn't do so much work that I was
worried about the motor burning up, I might stick with it and go for a
sander. Of course that doesn't solve the molding problem.

P.S. have you seen the (somewhat limited but really nice0 molding knove
setup you can get for a table saw? I saw the guy that sells the purple
ones at a show and they did a really great job. Really great.


HotRod wrote:
So now that I've had some more time to think about it I'm trying to figure
out what is going to be better.Can anyone help answer these questions. I'm
looking at the woodmaster 18" unit.

1) The current planner I have is a single motor unit, the molder/planner I
was looking at was also a single motor unit. Does the variable speed belt on
the bottom that pulls the wood in actually make the cuts that much better?
Or will both planners do the same job? Is more cuts per inch that much
better?

2) The other option is to go with my Craftsman Molder/Planner and a seperate
drum sander. The big difference between the woodmaster and the rest is that
the woodmaster only has a single drum. Are there advantages and disadvatages
to this? Or can I get the single drum to do the same job?

You need to explain this. Molding knives in a table saw? I'm going to do
some leg work tomorrow and see what I can find at some of my large wood
working shops. I'm trying to not be so tunnel visioned that what I get is
only going to help me for this job.

I think Craftsman and Delt both sell these types of cutters for
Tablesaws. This is the guy I was thinking of. You can only go so wide
but I think the craftsman version lets you use succesive knives to do
wide crown molding by doing several passes.

http://www.lrhent.com/magic.htm

Here is a few more links. Can't fand any good pics of it process
though.
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-34-813-M.../dp/B00004Y9HJ

http://cgi.ebay.com/Craftsman-Radial...QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/hi_too...897495,00.html

BW


HotRod wrote:
You need to explain this. Molding knives in a table saw? I'm going to do
some leg work tomorrow and see what I can find at some of my large wood
working shops. I'm trying to not be so tunnel visioned that what I get is
only going to help me for this job.

I've contacted woodmaster about all of your suggestions and what it's going
to cost to get an 18" machine all setup. I guess we'll see what the response
is. Otherwise I should be getting a new machine before Christmas.

HotRod wrote:
I've contacted woodmaster about all of your suggestions and what it's going
to cost to get an 18" machine all setup. I guess we'll see what the response
is. Otherwise I should be getting a new machine before Christmas.

I didn't realize this thread was still going on.

My 2 cents.. I agree with Sonoma that a slower planing speed with make
a better surface.
On the other hand though, my thought has always been that a planer is
for rough dimensioning, and then the drum sander gets it nice and
smooth. So I plane my stuff a bit on the thick side, and then I run
each side through the drum sander about 6-8 times.. Might be overkill,
but I get a real nice finish that way. I don't bother to hand sand or
random orbital sand. I agree that it would look better, but for me, the
drum sander is good enough.

The thread was probably dead a long time ago but I'm sure some poeple might
ahve it on their "Watch list" like me and I thought it might be nice to let
people know what I've decided to do.

Funny thing I was looking at the website for the US version and the Canadian
districuter and the price difference is noticable. The first price is US
then Canadian

PRO PAK
712 - $1800 & $3100
718 - $2300 & $3000
725 - $2900 & $4900

"HotRod" wrote

The thread was probably dead a long time ago but I'm sure some poeple
might have it on their "Watch list" like me and I thought it might be nice
to let people know what I've decided to do.

Funny thing I was looking at the website for the US version and the
Canadian districuter and the price difference is noticable. The first
price is US then Canadian

PRO PAK
712 - $1800 & $3100
718 - $2300 & $3000
725 - $2900 & $4900

Don't keep us in suspense.

You told us "it might be nice to let people know what I've decided to do".
Then you list some prices.

But you did not tell us what you did or why.

HotRod wrote:


Funny thing I was looking at the website for the US version and the Canadian
districuter and the price difference is noticable. The first price is US
then Canadian

So, are those the prices for the woodmaster combo unit (forgive me if I
got the name wrong).

Congrats. I hope they give you a great price. If you're like me you'll
be nothing but pleased with the unit.

Like another poster mentioned, since I have separate planer and sander
too (I don't need to convert the woodmaster from planing) I use my wide
belt sander for my final dimensioning.

Using the sander for dimensioning is not quite as precise so I usually
run it through twice on the same setting once I get to the final pass
and I sand out any of the dimensional thickness variance. This is
really important if I am cutting tenons or doing other dimensional
milling operations that work from both sides of the material.


HotRod wrote:
I've contacted woodmaster about all of your suggestions and what it's going
to cost to get an 18" machine all setup. I guess we'll see what the response
is. Otherwise I should be getting a new machine before Christmas.

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I got the bigger motor. In my case I got it because I "may" use the
unit for gang ripping oak, etc. I have products that use 3/4" square
pickets and some others that use 3/8" wide ripped pieces from 3/4"
stock and I will create some custom spacers and run 6 or 8 blades at a
time. They told me with the 7 1/2 HP motor I could run 10 blades and I
believe it. Probaby overkill for most situations.

You mention that you "may" use the gang rip blades. Have you tried
using the gang ripping for making glue-ups? Specifically, how straight
are the cuts and how smooth? Could you glue ripped pieces directly
without any further sanding of the edges?

Thanks, Lou

Sorry, I've been away.

Unfortunately the only gang ripping I did was piles of Pine for some
Adirondack chairs where I needed slats, lots o' slats. I never checked
the edges. Not even sure if I had blade marks, just didn't care.

My impression is if I devised some featherboard concept it would be
clean and straight enough for glue-up but I haven't tested it.

wrote:
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I got the bigger motor. In my case I got it because I "may" use the
unit for gang ripping oak, etc. I have products that use 3/4" square
pickets and some others that use 3/8" wide ripped pieces from 3/4"
stock and I will create some custom spacers and run 6 or 8 blades at a
time. They told me with the 7 1/2 HP motor I could run 10 blades and I
believe it. Probaby overkill for most situations.

You mention that you "may" use the gang rip blades. Have you tried
using the gang ripping for making glue-ups? Specifically, how straight
are the cuts and how smooth? Could you glue ripped pieces directly
without any further sanding of the edges?

Thanks, Lou