I see several posts asking for the plans to build whatever. I rarely build
using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct dimensions. When
someone wants something made, all I really want is a few photos of what they
want and I'll design/build it based loosely on what they had in mind. I
make several mistakes this way but it's part of the learning process. I love
the challenge.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave


--
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave

Both. A few recent projects as examples: My recent mission style bed
project was built pretty closely to a set of plans (August
Home/Woodsmith), though I tweaked the dimensions a little and came up
with my own bed rail fastening system.
The spice rack I built was entirely my own design, based on the sizes
of the spice jars that were in our cupboard. I did google around to
look at photos of others' designs, but didn't base my design on any in
particular.
My router table is entirely my own design - designed around the scraps
I had on hand, and made to fit in my B&D Workmate. Thus it's swapable
with my stationary belt-disc sander etc.
The rocking chair I'm working on is based very loosely on a plan
(American Furniture Design), but I basically used that for some of the
dimensions and angles. This plan contains very few of the
pictures/tips/jigs I found useful in the August Home plan, and the CAD
drawings that came with the rocking chair plan are poorly done and
inconsistent with the single photo of the original chair. So again, I
found all the pictures of mission style rockers I could, measured all
the chairs I could find, picked elements of each that I liked or didn't
like, and sketched up my own diagram that I'm building from. I'm
thinking that it would probably be beneficial to teach myself how to
use Google Sketchup or some basic CAD program, but I just haven't
motivated myself to spend a few hours in front of a computer when I
could spend a few hours with some wood instead.
The only problems I've had with my own sketches/plans have occurred
when I didn't look at them often enough.
Andy

Teamcasa wrote:

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

I usually work from a plan and cutlist, but in the vast majority of
cases, _I_ created the plan and cutlist. If the project is based on an
existing item, the plan is created from photos and descriptions of the
item. The "plan" is usually nothing more than an 11"x17" pencil line
drawing, with notes jotted down as to specific details that I don't want
to forget. My cutlists are usually simple Excel printouts. Each
project gets a clipboard, and parts are stretch-wrapped together and
labeled, as I usually have more than one project going at a time. Shop
projects, etc... usually don't warrant a plan.

I've occasionally used commercial plans, not for an entire project, but
for a detailed explanation of how a specific idea is executed.
Sometimes, there's no point in reinventing the wheel.

Personally, I've found the most difficult and mistake-prone way to work
is to modify a plan on the fly that I didn't create.

In article , "Teamcasa" wrote:
I see several posts asking for the plans to build whatever. I rarely build
using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct dimensions. When
someone wants something made, all I really want is a few photos of what they
want and I'll design/build it based loosely on what they had in mind. I
make several mistakes this way but it's part of the learning process. I love
the challenge.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

I always build from plans. Sometimes, they're other people's plans, either
purchased or free downloads. Usually, they're my own plans -- which are
frequently just sketches with dimensions, and a picture in in my head. But I
always, always, always build from some kind of plan.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Thu, Oct 12, 2006, 9:13am (EDT-3) (Teamcasa) doth
queryeth:
snip Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the
seat of your pants.

Plans? Plans? Don' need no steenkin' plans!



JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax

Andy wrote:
Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

I might make a rough sketch from the idea in my head if the project is
complicated enough.

As far as using plans from other sources, I only look at them to get
different ideas of how something might go together. To me, woodworking
is a process that begins with an idea and ends with the finished
product. Building something according to an existing plan cuts out an
integral (and fun) part of that process.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:13:35 -0700, "Teamcasa"
wrote:

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

I generally have an outline as to what, but serenidipty strikes more
often than does Murphy. But frustrating Murphy rather than me always
makes me happy.

Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618

I'm a recent requester of plans for sideboard -- more for generating
some ideas rather than producing a piece. In this case, the sideboard
is a gift for my son and daughter-in-law and I just wanted a few
plans/pix to make sure what I produce is what they really want.

Teamcasa wrote:
I see several posts asking for the plans to build whatever. I rarely build
using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct dimensions. When
someone wants something made, all I really want is a few photos of what they
want and I'll design/build it based loosely on what they had in mind. I
make several mistakes this way but it's part of the learning process. I love
the challenge.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave


Build from plans when you don't have one. Then run around getting the
material called for in the plan. Or mess around with the plan,
substitute material and dimensions, and likely mess up the project.

Or get a plan in your head from other plans or pictures, mull it
around a bit, sketch it out for the joints and build it with the
material you have. At least your not building what someone else has
built before you. Call it original design if that makes you happy.

I get the idea and work out the details in my mind, sketching where I
need to, Lay out my material, write all over it, sand it off, do it
again, revise the plan because the material doesn't fit, down/up size
the plan, get more material if I really feel I need it. This takes
a month. Start cutting to size, need a jig - build one (jig takes 2
days, cutting takes 10 min), dry fit, cut some more material, more
dry fit, change plans because I got a better idea, complete all the
cutting and final dry fit. Begin glue up, take back down because I
got ahead of myself in the glue up sequence, curse the glue squeeze
out, fix that, recut the piece that doesn't fit, complete the
assembly. This takes a week or so, depending on project size and
complexity - your time may vary. Grab a coffee, have a smoke and
watch the glue dry.

Sand the snot out of it with progressively finer papers, make a great
show of being fussy, damp wipe the project down to raise the grain
and find missed spots to resand, lighly sand again. Grab more coffee
and a smoke and watch the wood dry while looking for areas that need
more sanding. This takes about 2-3 days. Give it a first coat of
oil/stain and curse your blindness for missing that obvious sanding
swirl that didn't show up when damp wiping, resand and curse some
more. Complete the finishing, sanding out the damn fruit flies that
came out of no where and landed in the last wet coat, wax it. Grab
another cuppa and a smoke, sit down and finally see all the stupid
mistakes you made, and curse some more. Plan the next project.

If this hasn't happened to you, you don't enjoy working with wood and
need a new pastime like bottle cap collecting.

Pete

wrote:
Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave


Build from plans when you don't have one. Then run around getting the
material called for in the plan. Or mess around with the plan,
substitute material and dimensions, and likely mess up the project.

Or get a plan in your head from other plans or pictures, mull it
around a bit, sketch it out for the joints and build it with the
material you have. At least your not building what someone else has
built before you. Call it original design if that makes you happy.

I get the idea and work out the details in my mind, sketching where I
need to, Lay out my material, write all over it, sand it off, do it
again, revise the plan because the material doesn't fit, down/up size
the plan, get more material if I really feel I need it. This takes
a month. Start cutting to size, need a jig - build one (jig takes 2
days, cutting takes 10 min), dry fit, cut some more material, more
dry fit, change plans because I got a better idea, complete all the
cutting and final dry fit. Begin glue up, take back down because I
got ahead of myself in the glue up sequence, curse the glue squeeze
out, fix that, recut the piece that doesn't fit, complete the
assembly. This takes a week or so, depending on project size and
complexity - your time may vary. Grab a coffee, have a smoke and
watch the glue dry.

Sand the snot out of it with progressively finer papers, make a great
show of being fussy, damp wipe the project down to raise the grain
and find missed spots to resand, lighly sand again. Grab more coffee
and a smoke and watch the wood dry while looking for areas that need
more sanding. This takes about 2-3 days. Give it a first coat of
oil/stain and curse your blindness for missing that obvious sanding
swirl that didn't show up when damp wiping, resand and curse some
more. Complete the finishing, sanding out the damn fruit flies that
came out of no where and landed in the last wet coat, wax it. Grab
another cuppa and a smoke, sit down and finally see all the stupid
mistakes you made, and curse some more. Plan the next project.

If this hasn't happened to you, you don't enjoy working with wood and
need a new pastime like bottle cap collecting.

Pete
LMAO! You must have a hidden camera set up in my shop! (Except I did
manage to quit smoking a few years back)

"Teamcasa" wrote in message

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

I've never built from someone else's plans, but when I get an idea of
something I want to build, I usually draw my own detailed plans.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:13:35 -0700, "Teamcasa"
wrote:

I see several posts asking for the plans to build whatever. I rarely build
using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct dimensions. When
someone wants something made, all I really want is a few photos of what they
want and I'll design/build it based loosely on what they had in mind. I
make several mistakes this way but it's part of the learning process. I love
the challenge.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Seat of my pants, now- but when I was starting out making "real"
furniture (as opposed to sawhorses and nailed-together 2x4 benches) I
used plans until I got a good idea of what joints were availible, when
they were appropriate, what approaches I did and didn't like, and
glue-up procedures. Without that initial education via plans, I think
my current projects would be suffering.

I don't bother with cutlists, either- I've got a lathe, and do little
projects as well, so I just get a couple more planks than I think I
need, and keep the extra in the shop for some future project. I might
plan out buying hardwood ply, but I don't use that much.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"Teamcasa" wrote in message

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

I've never built from someone else's plans, but when I get an idea of
something I want to build, I usually draw my own detailed plans.

That's mostly what I do as well. Sometimes I'll detail out a particulair
connection just to get a better idea on what order to make the cuts or
should I mortise first, shape later or shape first, mortise later. Oh the
sweet delima.

I also agree with Pete's statement "If this ... (put togeather - take apart)
hasn't happened to you, you don't enjoy working with wood and need a new
pastime like bottle cap collecting."

Dave

Teamcasa wrote:
... I rarely build
using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct dimensions.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

I'm really fond of the planning process; there's always a plan. The
making of
an esthetic whole out of materials, processes, and techniques is my
definition of a satisfying craft (or craft hobby).

There's three stages of a project (bookshelf, room moulding, room
rearrangement... whatever).
First you identify the goal; bookshelf for books this size, in this
quantity, in this location
in the house.
Second, you put together a plausible scheme to reach the goal (shelf
boards this width,
of softwood, vertical supports blind-sliding-halfdovetailed in plywood,
finished before
cutting, and a cutting plan based on standard lumber sizes).
Third, you make the trip to the lumberyard and transition those boards
from raw wood
to furniture-plus-sawdust.

Sometimes it pays off big; sometimes you have happy accidents on the
way and
the plan changes. I ran into a sample-size display of stains while
shopping for
lumber, and my playing with different stains and woods soaked up an
extra weekend.
Sometimes you hit a hitch and have to re-plan or accept the uneven
staining as a gift of
the wood...

And years of enjoyment of the project can be had if the plan is sound,
while months of
dissatisfaction can result if the wood finish sticks to your books.
The plan DID call for
finishing applied weeks ahead of final assembly, I'm happy to say.

Teamcasa wrote:
I see several posts asking for the plans to build whatever. I rarely build
using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct dimensions. When
someone wants something made, all I really want is a few photos of what they
want and I'll design/build it based loosely on what they had in mind. I
make several mistakes this way but it's part of the learning process. I love
the challenge.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave


I rarely have the luxury to work so loosely. I design in the laptop for
most of my clients, generally on site with a tape measure in hand. I
take it home and detail it out from there. I usually have a complete
cutlist and drawings of plan and elevation views complete before I buy
any wood.

LMAO, sounds familiar....

Allen

wrote in message ...

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave


Build from plans when you don't have one. Then run around getting the
material called for in the plan. Or mess around with the plan,
substitute material and dimensions, and likely mess up the project.

Or get a plan in your head from other plans or pictures, mull it
around a bit, sketch it out for the joints and build it with the
material you have. At least your not building what someone else has
built before you. Call it original design if that makes you happy.

I get the idea and work out the details in my mind, sketching where I
need to, Lay out my material, write all over it, sand it off, do it
again, revise the plan because the material doesn't fit, down/up size
the plan, get more material if I really feel I need it. This takes
a month. Start cutting to size, need a jig - build one (jig takes 2
days, cutting takes 10 min), dry fit, cut some more material, more
dry fit, change plans because I got a better idea, complete all the
cutting and final dry fit. Begin glue up, take back down because I
got ahead of myself in the glue up sequence, curse the glue squeeze
out, fix that, recut the piece that doesn't fit, complete the
assembly. This takes a week or so, depending on project size and
complexity - your time may vary. Grab a coffee, have a smoke and
watch the glue dry.

Sand the snot out of it with progressively finer papers, make a great
show of being fussy, damp wipe the project down to raise the grain
and find missed spots to resand, lighly sand again. Grab more coffee
and a smoke and watch the wood dry while looking for areas that need
more sanding. This takes about 2-3 days. Give it a first coat of
oil/stain and curse your blindness for missing that obvious sanding
swirl that didn't show up when damp wiping, resand and curse some
more. Complete the finishing, sanding out the damn fruit flies that
came out of no where and landed in the last wet coat, wax it. Grab
another cuppa and a smoke, sit down and finally see all the stupid
mistakes you made, and curse some more. Plan the next project.

If this hasn't happened to you, you don't enjoy working with wood and
need a new pastime like bottle cap collecting.

Pete

Thu, Oct 12, 2006, 7:02pm (EDT+4)
(Cap'n*321) doth claimeth:
snip the sideboard is a gift for my son and daughter-in-law and I just
wanted a few plans/pix to make sure what I produce is what they really
want.

In that case, if it had been me, I'd have asked THEM for pictures
or plans of what they really want.



JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax

wrote in message
oups.com...

Teamcasa wrote:
I see several posts asking for the plans to build whatever. I rarely
build
using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct dimensions. When
someone wants something made, all I really want is a few photos of what
they
want and I'll design/build it based loosely on what they had in mind. I
make several mistakes this way but it's part of the learning process. I
love
the challenge.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave


I rarely have the luxury to work so loosely. I design in the laptop for
most of my clients, generally on site with a tape measure in hand. I
take it home and detail it out from there. I usually have a complete
cutlist and drawings of plan and elevation views complete before I buy
any wood.

If woodworking was my profession, I too would carefully design, plan and
purchase with care. As a hobby, I am relieved of that responsibility. If
this hobby ever became work, I'd go back to playing golf, welding or diving.

Dave

J T wrote:
Thu, Oct 12, 2006, 9:13am (EDT-3) (Teamcasa) doth
queryeth:
snip Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the
seat of your pants.

Plans? Plans? Don' need no steenkin' plans!



JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax


The problem with using plans is that it is so hard to find them. Now,
if there were some way to find plans with a quick and easy search....

"Mike" wrote in
ps.com:


J T wrote:
Thu, Oct 12, 2006, 9:13am (EDT-3) (Teamcasa)
doth queryeth:
snip Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by
the seat of your pants.

Plans? Plans? Don' need no steenkin' plans!



JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax


The problem with using plans is that it is so hard to find them. Now,
if there were some way to find plans with a quick and easy search....



Searching's too hard. I want someone to post links to plans right in
front of me. ;-)

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:13:35 -0700, "Teamcasa" wrote:

I see several posts asking for the plans to build whatever. I rarely build
using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct dimensions. When
someone wants something made, all I really want is a few photos of what they
want and I'll design/build it based loosely on what they had in mind. I
make several mistakes this way but it's part of the learning process. I love
the challenge.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave

I've tried working with plans and hit 2 problems:

Not having a planer, the thickness on plans usually isn't possible...
if it calls for 5/8" 11/16" thickness I have to use 3/4" stock and change all
the other measurements or it throws everything off...

I just don't have the patience required... Once the bug hits me I want to
picture it in my head, draw enough of a sketch to get sizes and stuff and just
go with it...

Also, I have a really bad habit of my projects evolving as I progress, with
improvements and changes that I usually like in the end..
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:48:40 GMT, "Teamcasa" wrote:


If woodworking was my profession, I too would carefully design, plan and
purchase with care. As a hobby, I am relieved of that responsibility. If
this hobby ever became work, I'd go back to playing golf, welding or diving.

Dave

My older brother drives me crazy when we do a project together.... His
background is in airframe, and he plans EVERYTHING...

I have to say that his finished work is much better than mine, but he'll take
hours and sometimes days designing in CAD and revising material and cut lists,
dimensions, etc. until I've either built it myself or gone home and done another
project.. *g*

I'm pretty sure that my work would be better if I was more like him, but my
hobby is making saw dust and his is 50/50 planning and building..
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:48:40 GMT, "Teamcasa" wrote:


If woodworking was my profession, I too would carefully design, plan and
purchase with care. As a hobby, I am relieved of that responsibility. If
this hobby ever became work, I'd go back to playing golf, welding or
diving.

Dave

My older brother drives me crazy when we do a project together.... His
background is in airframe, and he plans EVERYTHING...

I have to say that his finished work is much better than mine, but he'll
take
hours and sometimes days designing in CAD and revising material and cut
lists,
dimensions, etc. until I've either built it myself or gone home and done
another
project.. *g*

I'm pretty sure that my work would be better if I was more like him, but
my
hobby is making saw dust and his is 50/50 planning and building..
Mac

I too like planning- up until I make a mistake or I don't like the way a
plan does something. From then on, its on to improvisational work.

Mac, Mexico soon? I'm turning a bowl from walnut with a big knot in it.
Its a test of my patients.

Dave

"Teamcasa" wrote

I too like planning- up until I make a mistake or I don't like the way a
plan does something. From then on, its on to improvisational work.

Mac, Mexico soon? I'm turning a bowl from walnut with a big knot in it.
Its a test of my patients.

I have this strong visual of David turning a bowl while his patients sit in
a waiting/lathe room full of wood shavings.

"mac davis" wrote in message
My older brother drives me crazy when we do a project together.... His
background is in airframe, and he plans EVERYTHING...

I have to say that his finished work is much better than mine, but he'll
take
hours and sometimes days designing in CAD and revising material and cut
lists,
dimensions, etc. until I've either built it myself or gone home and done
another
project.. *g*

I like to do some planning. Most times, it is a sketch made while sitting
in front of the TV. I make a rough cut list so I don't have to go back to
get more wood, but it is subject to change, as are the plans once things get
going.

I've built a couple of projects from bought or free plans though. If I see
something I like, I'd just as well spend a few $$ and have the work done for
me and it can be a good learning experience to find out how others would do
a joint. I also have limited artistic skills so for designs like the Tudor
bench I built from American Furniture Design was money well spent.

mac davis wrote in
:

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:13:35 -0700, "Teamcasa"
wrote:

I see several posts asking for the plans to build whatever. I rarely
build using plans other than a basic sketch to insure correct
dimensions. When someone wants something made, all I really want is a
few photos of what they want and I'll design/build it based loosely on
what they had in mind. I make several mistakes this way but it's part
of the learning process. I love the challenge.

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat
of your pants.

Dave

I've tried working with plans and hit 2 problems:

Not having a planer, the thickness on plans usually isn't possible...
if it calls for 5/8" 11/16" thickness I have to use 3/4" stock and
change all the other measurements or it throws everything off...

I just don't have the patience required... Once the bug hits me I want
to picture it in my head, draw enough of a sketch to get sizes and
stuff and just go with it...

Also, I have a really bad habit of my projects evolving as I progress,
with improvements and changes that I usually like in the end..
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

I never use plans. I look at my lumber supply and then at whatever tools
or machinery catch my fancy. I then start cutting or milling or planing
or carving or turning and then sanding or scraping and shellacing or
oiling or varnishing or polyurathaning or painting. I never know what it
is going to be. Even when it's completed I'm not sure what it is, but
it's been cut, milled, planed, carved, sanded or scraped (or sanded and
scraped) shellaced, oiled, varnished, painted, polyurathaned or left
natural. Never know what it is, but I love the workmanship.
"Don't need no steenken plans" (JOAT 2006).
Hank






sining or varnishing or

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:16:27 -0700, mac davis wrote:

Are you a must have a plan person or do you just build it by the seat of
your pants.

Dave

Summa both. Some times I'll start with plans then, as the project
progresses, depart from them.

I just completed the DP table from ShopNotes #57. Very good plans.

However, I made no drawer and increased the top dims to 39" x 17" x 1 1/4".

And changed the table material to a 3 part mdf / cdx / mdf sandwich.

Then I shellacked it.

And added a corrugated plastic baffle to the dust box to get rid of the
corners and smooth the flow.

And used 3/4 inch square tubing (which I had laying around) in place of
their flimsy-looking angle brackets (which I would have had to buy).

And a shop-built collar for the vacuum hose entry that is exactly right.
The hose just slides in but once the shop vac starts, it's downright tough
to pull it out.

And I made the slots in the back stop by a different method.

Come to think of it ... I could patent this!

;-)

Yeah ... I use plans.
Like a fighter jet uses a catapault.

Bill